Costa Concordia SINKING

[boogs]

If they hit in open waters and started taking on water, alarms would have sounded immediately. You don't wait til you hit a rocky coast before you sound alarms, anyone below water line must be altered.

 

And then hit twice? Woops ... I hit an "uncharted" reef, more than 100' below sea level, head 8 miles towards that island and smash into the coast, let's do it again!

 

If they indeed hit something earlier, why didn't they head towards the mainland instead of towards a small island with minimal emergency capabilities? Seems to me that going towards Port Ericole on the mainland would have been closer and provide more emergency support.

 

 

[G.M.T.]

I am somewhat perplexed. My understanding is that the passengers were sitting at their dinner tables at 8pm when the event started, looking along the track to that approx time puts it well offshore. Giving the time frame if the ship continued for some time whilst they assessed the damage before starting its turn towards Giglio. The time of the turn relevant is at 22:10 which is some time after the actual start time.

 

Hopefully we will all know the full facts in time. Praying for the missing/unaccounted.

Various reports, puts the crash (when the scrapping noise was heard) at about 9:45 pm in the middle of the second sitting.

 

Ron

[secondhand]

my two cents based on sitting in the Captain's chair for a couple of years and investigating officer for a couple of marine 'incidents' but these are just first thoughts

 

- looking at the overall layout of where the ship was due to go and where it went I have to suspect there was a deviation from the normal course.

 

- tracks show a deviation to port, toward the island that makes no navigational sense

 

* my opinion is this was an electronic error. 'Someone' had reprogrammed the GPS tied to the auto-pilot and had fat fingered a course entry (note the one digit error mentioned by another post), This error turned the ship TOWARD the island rather than north leaving the island safely to the west. (maritime cases are loaded with "radar assisted collision" cases, easily expanded to electronic because folks relied TOO hard on the magic of electrons)

 

* OPINION - SADLY the bridge watch noticed this error WAY too late. (In the vernacular of 'Bridge Resource Management', we call this 'loss of situational awareness) Once detected they notified the Captain who knew they were far off track and getting back on track would cost dollars in either a late arrival or consumption of addition fuel to increase speed.

 

* OPINION - The Captain then saw a short cut ..... a pass between two islands that was narrow but 'just enough' and allowed for minimal loss of time and distance

 

* OPINION - He went for it ..... and learned it was not well charted, because no significant vessels sail thru it!!!!! Oops, turned trying to avoid a rock but the stern swing (a ship turns from the back, your car turns from the front) had him catch the rock "full and by" - he's got a SERIOUS problem now.....

 

* OPINION - Once holed he saw he was close to the port and thought if I can dock the ship the risk is FAR FAR less, so he heads north to the port, only a few miles away while trying to manage the flooding. During this time he tells his crew, do NOT abandon, because I'm going to dock......

 

* the port entrance faces north and he approaches from the south so he must do a 180 degree turn about. Doing so allows enough of the water taken on thru the MASSIVE hole to shift (free surface effect) and the ship lists significantly to starboard resulting in a decision (or an uncontrolled event) to ground the ship just outside the port entrance. (ship damage control . . . )

 

My opinion . . . .

 

 

 

 

I like this post.....reasonable.....any thoughts on why the Captain left the ship? (if he did as reported)

[deckofficer]

This video from august, reportably from Giglio harbour is very interesting. I will however refrain from further comments.

 

Deckofficer: I will not post anymore on this subject untill accident report has been published I think.

I do sound harch from time to time, it is a known weakness of mine and in no way did I want to insult you Sir. However, I might be a good idea to keep to the facts here on this laymens forum to clarify things to other participants. We should not discuss own personal views on public forums in my opinion.

 

You were absolutely right concerning Cruise ships and Active Stability. The Destiny/Fortuna class vessels have certainly not a hydrodynamical hull design by the way:rolleyes:. I have never worked on ships with a flag of Convenience.

 

You are correct and I accept it. You and I could postulate to our heart's content on a professional, closed to public forum. I did mention until the news media catches up to what has been stated over at MM&P, I was going to lay low on this forum, so we think alike.

[G.M.T.]

This video on YouTube gives an indication of what was happening on board.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93FshRIFr6Q&feature=share

 

THIS VIDEO IS NOT FROM COSTA CONCORDIA, BUT FROM ANOTHER CRUISE SHIP THAT WAS HIT BY A GIANT WAVE BACK IN APRIL 2011:

 

HERE IS THE ORIGINAL.

 

 

Ron

[hermitstyle]

More pictures and stories on TV. I am shocked like most people.I think Carnival corp must take their share of blame. Instead of concentrating on "nickel and diming" passengers they should have made sure their staff were trained properly and they had processes that worked !This is the worse disaster since the Titanic !

Over dramatic much? There are only 3 known fatalities with 41 passengers unaccounted for. God forbid that if those 41 have also lost their lives, but the Titanic happened out in the middle of the ocean, lost more than 1,500 lives and the ship broke in half. The Titanic did not have enough lifeboats for their passengers, the Concordia did. Stop being Chicken Little and count the blessings and miracles that more lives were not lost and the Captain had enough forethought to bring the ship closer to land instead of letting it sink fully a couple miles off shore.

[Ozcruiser1]

This would "appear"to be a very likely summary of a possible situation.

As an addition to safety measures posted by others, my wife and family think that I am a silly but I always have a very small torch attached to the lanyard with my cruise card ( I loop it around my belt and then in my trouser pocket so as not to look as if I'm running scared. I guess this sort of precaution could have come in handy in such a situation as this.

[G.M.T.]

Ron and all the others,

 

I wish I could share with you the posts on our MM&P forum, but have been reminded that what is said on that professional mariner's forum stays on that forum or else you would lose your forum privileges. So no copy and paste here to enlighten you folks. My colleagues have more up to date information than the media, so I will just lay low until the media gets up to speed and releases to the public the facts surrounding this tragic event. I have taken some heat from my posts, but as the days pass, you all will know what basically happened.

 

I will leave you all with this though, and that is a typical cruise ship is designed with minimal positive stability to ensure the comfort of the passengers. If a vessel has a lot of positive stability, the righting moment is fast and will produce seasickness among the passengers. If you breach a hull on a ship that is already tender for stability, it has a difficult time dealing with the weight shift and after deck edge submersion, there is no longer a shifting center of buoyancy, so the ship lies down.

 

Anyone can run and plead the fifth amendment.

 

It's not the facts that get people backs up, but you arrogant attitude about foreign flagged ships and that would't have happened on a US flagged ship.

 

Ron

[Red Mini Stapler]

THIS VIDEO IS NOT FROM COSTA CONCORDIA, BUT FROM ANOTHER CRUISE SHIP THAT WAS HIT BY A GIANT WAVE BACK IN APRIL 2011:

 

HERE IS THE ORIGINAL.

 

 

Ron

 

that's pacific sun by p&o and i believe the incident happened much earlier

i found this on wiki

"In late July 2008, 42 passengers were injured in a storm. The event became widely known when video footage was reposted on the internet two years later."

[morriscats]

Over dramatic much? There are only 3 known fatalities with 41 passengers unaccounted for. God forbid that if those 41 have also lost their lives, but the Titanic happened out in the middle of the ocean, lost more than 1,500 lives and the ship broke in half. The Titanic did not have enough lifeboats for their passengers, the Concordia did. Stop being Chicken Little and count the blessings and miracles that more lives were not lost and the Captain had enough forethought to bring the ship closer to land instead of letting it sink fully a couple miles off shore.

Why was the Captain there in the first place. And why did he leave the ship hours before the last passengers did. I am hoping this is bad reporting but if it is true, shame on him.

[secondhand]

You are correct and I accept it. You and I could postulate to our heart's content on a professional, closed to public forum. I did mention until the news media catches up to what has been stated over at MM&P, I was going to lay low on this forum, so we think alike.

 

why come on here and tell us all how much we don't know lol......wow

[deckofficer]

This would "appear"to be a very likely summary of a possible situation.

As an addition to safety measures posted by others, my wife and family think that I am a silly but I always have a very small torch attached to the lanyard with my cruise card ( I loop it around my belt and then in my trouser pocket so as not to look as if I'm running scared. I guess this sort of precaution could have come in handy in such a situation as this.

 

 

For folks Stateside, a torch is a flashlight. Also you shouldn't forget the amount of lumens the average smart phone gives off when you chose a page that is mostly white. Could come in handy the next time you are plunged into darkness without a torch/flashlight.

[Jimnbigd]

I am puzzled. I thought all ports had pilots that kept something like this from happening. Has anyone heard if there was a pilot for the port on board?

[DocF]

Ron and all the others,

 

I wish I could share with you the posts on our MM&P forum, but have been reminded that what is said on that professional mariner's forum stays on that forum or else you would lose your forum privileges. So no copy and paste here to enlighten you folks. My colleagues have more up to date information than the media, so I will just lay low until the media gets up to speed and releases to the public the facts surrounding this tragic event. I have taken some heat from my posts, but as the days pass, you all will know what basically happened.

 

I will leave you all with this though, and that is a typical cruise ship is designed with minimal positive stability to ensure the comfort of the passengers. If a vessel has a lot of positive stability, the righting moment is fast and will produce seasickness among the passengers. If you breach a hull on a ship that is already tender for stability, it has a difficult time dealing with the weight shift and after deck edge submersion, there is no longer a shifting center of buoyancy, so the ship lies down.

 

What he is saying regarding stability is true. George W. Hilton went into exhaustive discussions of this issue in his book about the capsize of the Eastland in the Chicago River in 1915.

 

Doc

[Red Mini Stapler]

For folks Stateside, a torch is a flashlight. Also you shouldn't forget the amount of lumens the average smart phone gives off when you chose a page that is mostly white. Could come in handy the next time you are plunged into darkness without a torch/flashlight.

 

or use 'flashlight' app that comes with smart phone these days :D

[bobsig]

I am puzzled. I thought all ports had pilots that kept something like this from happening. Has anyone heard if there was a pilot for the port on board?

 

Pilots are typically used for going into or out of a port - not open sea cruising which the Concordia was doing....although a bit close to an island it never should have been near.

[dmwnc1959]

I am puzzled. I thought all ports had pilots that kept something like this from happening. Has anyone heard if there was a pilot for the port on board?

 

The ship was not in the process of docking or anchoring off this port as a 'port of call', but was passing by enroute from Civitavecchia to Savona. Speculation has it the ship passed between two very small charted rocks off of the coast of this island and proceeded north to pass by the main port city on Giglio. It has done this in the past as documented in a youtube video posted showing the ship passing by at speed and blowing it's horn.

[RachelG]

I am puzzled. I thought all ports had pilots that kept something like this from happening. Has anyone heard if there was a pilot for the port on board?

 

They weren't in a port or an area where apilot would be needed.

[CruiseAdict218]

6:20pm Update: The following is from a crew member that worked on board the Costa Concordia…

 

The captain was seen fleeing ship with the money. Wouldn’t allow staff to abandon ship because it would harm his career. Crew had to arrange the evacuation themselves, hence confusion.

 

http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/2012/01/13/costaconcordia/

[deckofficer]

I am puzzled. I thought all ports had pilots that kept something like this from happening. Has anyone heard if there was a pilot for the port on board?

 

Now that I have a few posters that have supported me rather than attempt to tear me down, I feel more comfortable answering some questions. Aboard container ships and tankers that I served on, of course we had a pilot come aboard for his intimate knowledge of local waters and also had tug assistance because our ships could not maneuver the way a modern cruise ship is able to in tight quarters.

[Zeta3]

my two cents based on sitting in the Captain's chair for a couple of years and investigating officer for a couple of marine 'incidents' but these are just first thoughts

 

- looking at the overall layout of where the ship was due to go and where it went I have to suspect there was a deviation from the normal course.

 

- tracks show a deviation to port, toward the island that makes no navigational sense

 

* my opinion is this was an electronic error. 'Someone' had reprogrammed the GPS tied to the auto-pilot and had fat fingered a course entry (note the one digit error mentioned by another post), This error turned the ship TOWARD the island rather than north leaving the island safely to the west. (maritime cases are loaded with "radar assisted collision" cases, easily expanded to electronic because folks relied TOO hard on the magic of electrons)

 

* OPINION - SADLY the bridge watch noticed this error WAY too late. (In the vernacular of 'Bridge Resource Management', we call this 'loss of situational awareness) Once detected they notified the Captain who knew they were far off track and getting back on track would cost dollars in either a late arrival or consumption of addition fuel to increase speed.

 

* OPINION - The Captain then saw a short cut ..... a pass between two islands that was narrow but 'just enough' and allowed for minimal loss of time and distance

 

* OPINION - He went for it ..... and learned it was not well charted, because no significant vessels sail thru it!!!!! Oops, turned trying to avoid a rock but the stern swing (a ship turns from the back, your car turns from the front) had him catch the rock "full and by" - he's got a SERIOUS problem now.....

 

* OPINION - Once holed he saw he was close to the port and thought if I can dock the ship the risk is FAR FAR less, so he heads north to the port, only a few miles away while trying to manage the flooding. During this time he tells his crew, do NOT abandon, because I'm going to dock......

 

* the port entrance faces north and he approaches from the south so he must do a 180 degree turn about. Doing so allows enough of the water taken on thru the MASSIVE hole to shift (free surface effect) and the ship lists significantly to starboard resulting in a decision (or an uncontrolled event) to ground the ship just outside the port entrance. (ship damage control . . . )

 

My opinion . . . .

 

This makes the most sense of anything that I have read thus far.

[mainelycruising]

More than likely the intitial deaths are crew that would have been working or living below the water level toward the front of the ship. If there was any kind of flooding before the watertight doors could be closed (and they can close with no power, under generators) then they most likely drowned or were killed upon impact if they were in the area that was struck.

I remember not too long ago crew members were asleep in their cabin when a ship struck a pier while docking and it pierced thier cabins drowning them immediately.

Having worked on ships it's amazing to me how little respect the crew gets when conduxting the safety drills for passengers. For anyone that has every complained because they couldn't have a cocktail for 30 minutes think about this the next time you are standing there.

As for the crew we did crew safety drills every two weeks. I'm sure the crew on this ship helped save lives (I would hope so anyway)

 

I remember not too long ago crew members were asleep in their cabin when a ship struck a pier while docking and it pierced thier cabins drowning them immediately.

 

That was the Costa Europe, ex-HAL Westerdam, now Thomson Dream, at Sharm almost two years ago. Another Costa ship.

[Red Mini Stapler]

http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/2012/01/13/costaconcordia/

[/indent]

 

whoa :eek:

[G.M.T.]

Germany TV are now reporting follwoing:

 

3 Passengers/crew died from drowning

 

67 injured

 

50 to 70 missing

 

The missing could be in one of 3 categories

 

a. Are safe but have not yet been registered

b. Are still trapped in the ship

c. Jumped over board and have not been rescued as yet.

 

Also there is 2400 tons of fuel oil onboard.

 

Ron

[mainelycruising]

http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/2012/01/13/costaconcordia/

[/indent]

 

I heard on the BBC that the Captain has been arrested and is being held.