Jump to content

Costa Concordia SINKING


ItalianGuest

Recommended Posts

I have been wondering if this may have something to do with the way that Italy now has criminal corporate liability, where the directors (or directing minds) of the firm may also be held responsible in certian circumstances. This includes a potential charge of corperate manslaughter.

 

And there's also the question of which law applies - maritime law? italian law? This should be an interesting case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And there's also the question of which law applies - maritime law? italian law? This should be an interesting case.

 

It will be an interesting case. It could run very deep too to things that nobody is even thinking about now - such as liability from the company that provided the wax used on the floors inside the ship (because of reports the floors were exceedingly slippery when they were wet, hampering the rescue efforts).

 

There may be all kinds of claims and counterclaims by creative attorneys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From looking at lots of pics before it was completely capsized it appears that all lifeboats from the Starboard side launched and all but 2 on the Port side launched.

 

The question I have based on reading a ton on various European sites is how many were in the boats. I read some reports that some were almost empty and others were overcrowded.

 

According to some reports as many as 200 passengers had to swim to shore because they could no longer lower any more lifeboats and the water was already on the promenade deck.

This suggests that no all lifeboats were lowered on the starboard side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Costa has to try to stop the press and their passengers from focusing on Costa's training, procedures, directives.... They paint a picture that everything corporate did was correct and this entire incident including the crew's lack of assistance was something caused by one "rogue" captain. The press release helps keep everyone's eyes on the captain as the "villan" in all this. As I said in a previous post, the investigators will find problems everywhere...who certified that the crew was safety trained? who specified the life boats on the ship? who approved the emergency plan? How does a waiter wind up trying to drive a lifeboat? Yes, the captain is responsible for everything, but he didn't write the books or design the ship or train the crew that had to be certified before boarding the ship.

 

At risk is more than the financial loss of the loss of the ship and compensation of the passengers. What if passengers cancelled their cruises on other Costa ships? That's one of the main risks they are trying to contain. The procedures, training and so on that applied to this ship likely apply to all the other Costa ships. If they have inadequate procedures, bad ship design, untrained crews then that points back to Costa HQ. Better that they point to the captain and hang him for everything in the public's eye.

 

Additionally, if they can show that the captain was acting frivolously, they may be able to avoid some significant liabilities and perhaps avoid insurance issues.

 

When the litigators get to work on this, they will deeply examine the Costa corporate culture as a huge contributing factor in this disaster. Poor training, a culture of failing to follow standards, and staff who are not empowered to make decisions. Just my best guess based upon three Costa cruise experiences. That being said, I'm sure there were many heros amongst the staff leading to so many survivors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing that I can say about this thread, is that there is something terrible going on about one person quoting another! Cruise Critic.......please fix it. It's the only thread that I have ever witnessed this happening.

 

Now, down to specifics............there are still people missing. Not good! My heart goes out to their families!

 

There are 10 theories of how the ship did a "cruise by"......well, this time, it appears that Maverick hit the deck "so to speak" and lost a whole ship......maybe!

 

Again.......I'm going to say, to all of the Monday quarterbacks, and want to be captains........give the officials a chance to view and read the recordings of everything that happened..........to the ship, from leaving Cittachevicia, courses maintained, deviations, normal courses for shipping lanes, and why the Concordia deviated from any shipping lane.

 

I don't care about what is about to happen to the ship.......salvage or otherwise......until I know that everything has been done to find every passenger, and crewmember.

 

I'm apalled at people wanting to know what an addendant earns. I know, and I won't publish it! It's that sad!

 

So, now the story is in every pipeline, on every news station, in every language.

 

To the German flight attendant..........I can't remember your handle, but I would fly with you anytime! You make people feel comfortable, yet, you have some very good points.....that some did not take so well.

 

And, to Cruise Critic.......thank you for keeping this thread alive! You could have closed it yesterday. Thanks for not doing that.

 

I hope that you will let this play out. I have not cruised with Costa, but have with MSC......on multiple occasions. I love the Italians! They have some of the best training. Look up Sorento!

 

Rick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to some reports as many as 200 passengers had to swim to shore because they could no longer lower any more lifeboats and the water was already on the promenade deck.

This suggests that no all lifeboats were lowered on the starboard side.

 

I don't recall which of the way too numerous sites I looked at, but there were pictures that showed the boats basically disappearing from the starboard side in pairs. The last picture showed they were all gone. It may even be very early in this thread, or at least a link. That is what I am basing my assumption on.

 

A report I just read a couple of hours ago had a passenger complaining that several boats were launched almost empty.

 

Also, perhaps the people who had to swim (or get rescued by helicopter) were referring to the inflatables that the crew was trying to launch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing that I can say about this thread, is that there is something terrible going on about one person quoting another! Cruise Critic.......please fix it. It's the only thread that I have ever witnessed this happening.

 

Rick

It isn't the boards, it was a quote that someone quoted incorrectly earlier today. When they deleted information to leave just the part they wanted to quote, the took part of the quote tag, the part that has [ the poster and post number in the closing bracket. I can't type it out exacly because the board software will think I am trying to quote.

 

That quote was then quoted in another quote which was then quoted and so forth. Cruisingator fixed the tag when he quoted it but someone else didn't so it continued.

 

The long and short of it is, if you see a broken quote, either fix the tag at the front or don't use the quote button, do a copy and paste and then use the button in the reply to make it a quote. It is the paper looking symbol on the line where the bold is.

 

Long explanation but it is not the boards, it is human error.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This disaster has all the markings of a fatal lack of Crew Resource Management, at least that's what it is known as in the aviation industry. It was a big deal in the 70s and 80s and caused a lot of fatal crashes. The idea is getting the captain to delegate tasks during high stress times and the other big idea is encouraging the First Officer and other Officers to stand up to the Captain if he is making an error either knowingly or unknowingly. Sounds like this could have easily been avoided if the other Officers had stood for their duty to the ship rather than the captain.

 

I'm really hoping Costa can survive this disaster, because I really enjoyed my only Costa experience and the experience of all the cultures mingled together onboard and I don't believe I would hesitate to book another Costa cruise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Costa has to try to stop the press and their passengers from focusing on Costa's training, procedures, directives.... They paint a picture that everything corporate did was correct and this entire incident including the crew's lack of assistance was something caused by one "rogue" captain. The press release helps keep everyone's eyes on the captain as the "villan" in all this. As I said in a previous post, the investigators will find problems everywhere...who certified that the crew was safety trained? who specified the life boats on the ship? who approved the emergency plan? How does a waiter wind up trying to drive a lifeboat? Yes, the captain is responsible for everything, but he didn't write the books or design the ship or train the crew that had to be certified before boarding the ship.

 

I agree 100%. They are taking the clever tact of finding 1 fall guy for everything. Truth is that it seems that this very ship or other Costa ships have been sailing by this island routinely (in very close proximity) and I just don't see how Carnival or Costa Central cannot track the movement of their ships to see this happening all the time.

 

We have seen over and over again on youtube and CNN that these giant vessels are going by and sounding their horns over and over again almost weekly as a "salut" to the island. It's hard to imagine that no one in corporate knows this! And if they don't, they seriously need to microchip their billion dollar ships so that they know where their big fleet is at any given time! Kinda like I know where my 100lb Bernese Mtn Dog is each moment of the day! :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from a cruise industry hate site, but if these allegations about the Captain's and officers' actions, this is very very bad:

 

www dot cruise bruise (one word) dot com/Costa_Concordia_Sinks_January_13_2012.html

 

Look at Page 2

 

EDIT: cc blocks the link, if you can't figure out how to look at it, basically the captain took a taxi to go have coffee while ship still being evacuated. Also, bridge officers told port officials that they just had a technical difficulty after port got a call about the ship - they did not admit to being in trouble - even after being asked why passengers had life vests on (passenger had called her daughter who in turn called port officials after the initial impact).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you also have to fact in the media's reporting of this incident.

For instance this morning I heard a report that because the ship lost power passengers who were in their staterooms couldn't get out because the electronic system would have failed therefore making it impossible for them to open their doors.

If that was the case, and I'm sure it's not, then many more lives would have been lost.

So I would take only a percentage as fact at this stage with what we are hearing about this incident.

Jilly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How does a waiter wind up trying to drive a lifeboat?

 

I have barely skimmed this thread, so this may have been covered, but this one sentence stuck out to me for the following reason...

 

When we sailed on the Disney Wonder to AK in 2011, I specifically asked our waiter what his role was in an emergency, and he was a lifeboat driver. He said he got to drive one around every few weeks, they would actually launch it and let him get the feel for it.

 

If I remember correctly, the waiter in this case was not tall enough enough to drive the lifeboat properly. Can't say what that means...you would think if it were his assigned position and he were trained, they would be aware that his vertical situation could be an issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It isn't the boards, it was a quote that someone quoted incorrectly earlier today. When they deleted information to leave just the part they wanted to quote, the took part of the quote tag, the part that has [ the poster and post number in the closing bracket. I can't type it out exacly because the board software will think I am trying to quote.

 

That quote was then quoted in another quote which was then quoted and so forth. Cruisingator fixed the tag when he quoted it but someone else didn't so it continued.

 

The long and short of it is, if you see a broken quote, either fix the tag at the front or don't use the quote button, do a copy and paste and then use the button in the reply to make it a quote. It is the paper looking symbol on the line where the bold is.

 

Long explanation but it is not the boards, it is human error.

 

 

If this works......it's fixed! Thanks for explaining it to me. Sometimes an old fart does not understand new technology!!:D

 

Also, thanks for your posts! They are, along with others, right on.

 

The main emergency is almost over, but there are still lives missing!

 

By the way......the real reason that the Titanic sank.......was because the ships architect, who was aboard, wanted to show off, and commanded that the last boiler be brought to life, to gain another few knots of speed, to bring the liner into New York harbor in record time.

 

Had everything be left alone, the Titanic probably would have made it to New York. However there were more problems with the Titanic (maybe) than the Concordia. The rivets throughout the ship.......at least 50% of them were make of steel that had less strength than the steel of the hull.

 

And, now with the Concordia, with the ships Captain wanting to show off (if I'm reading why he came so close to the island in the first place, correctly) also might have made a fatal error.

 

Again.....only time will tell. I'm just a passenger, with a great deal of cruise time under my belt, both as a passenger, and as a captain of both ships (small) and aircraft.

 

Rick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to some reports as many as 200 passengers had to swim to shore because they could no longer lower any more lifeboats and the water was already on the promenade deck.

This suggests that no all lifeboats were lowered on the starboard side.

 

Here is additional info re all lifeboats on Starboard side being lowered:

 

"There were six crew and stewards left after us and there were no lifeboats for them, so they jumped into the water and one of them died."

 

from: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/two-aussies-missing-from-italian-ship-call-home/story-fn7x8me2-1226244915419

 

I really can't imagine the horror of going through that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from a cruise industry hate site, but if these allegations about the Captain's and officers' actions, this is very very bad:

 

www dot cruise bruise (one word) dot com/Costa_Concordia_Sinks_January_13_2012.html

 

Look at Page 2

 

EDIT: cc blocks the link, if you can't figure out how to look at it, basically the captain took a taxi to go have coffee while ship still being evacuated. Also, bridge officers told port officials that they just had a technical difficulty after port got a call about the ship - they did not admit to being in trouble - even after being asked why passengers had life vests on (passenger had called her daughter who in turn called port officials after the initial impact).

 

We know a mayday call was sent out and before that article seems to claim any warning occurred because the AIS models show all of the boats in the surrounding area heading directly for it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We know a mayday call was sent out and before that article seems to claim any warning occurred because the AIS models show all of the boats in the surrounding area heading directly for it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Consider the source of the article. I posted it because I found the allegations pretty damning. I prefaced that it was from a cruise hate site.

 

I saw the AIS models, ships came from everywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from a cruise industry hate site, but if these allegations about the Captain's and officers' actions, this is very very bad:

 

It took me a bit of coaxing with Google to find the page in question, but it is out there.

 

Personally, I'll have to see these allegations independently reported before I believe them. They're that unfathomable. If they turn out to be true, I can't help but wonder if the Italians will try and get the captain on murder charges instead of manslaughter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Consider the source of the article. I posted it because I found the allegations pretty damning. I prefaced that it was from a cruise hate site.

 

I saw the AIS models, ships came from everywhere.

 

I'm sure there is some truth in it, most of these stories can't be all false or all true, but we can't confirm it all yet. (( I wasn't saying you were wrong for posting it, btw, just that we know parts of it aren't true. ))

 

 

From another thread, a crew member posts on Facebook:

 

I ran across this today on Facebook...

 

 

"Unfortunately I don't have my nametag to photograph, because I lost at sea, along with my camera! My name is Katia Keyvanian, I am The GSM (Guest Service Manager) embarked on the 13th of January to substitute my colleague on the Concordia. I can write only a few lines, as I have a train to catch to go home! I would love to be invited by Giletti, Mentana, Vinci and all the other journalists, who without knowledge of the facts and who without verifying their sources, only write nonsense! I wish I could respond to the flood of nonsense and lies that have been said! But for now, until I can say more I can only say this; 'We evacuated 4000 people in the dark, with the ship inclined on it's side, in less than two hours! Those who are "incompetent" are not able to do this.

It is not true that the captain was first to leave the ship. I was on the last boat and he remained attached to the railing of deck 3, while the ship was sinking. Shame on you incompetent journalists who wrote that he was the first to leave! I was on the lifeboat, that was sailing away and about to be crushed by the hoist of the sinking ship, which was about to break through our roof. We pulled a lot of guests into the lifeboat who had ended up in the sea, and as we undressed a girl in wet clothes to cover her with a blanket, a guest filmed us with his phone! Shame on you!

We executed a rescue operation at sea, and as we pulled another gentleman out of the water, me with a rope tied around my wrist for more strength to pull him up, another man was taking pictures! Shame on you! we had to manage a flock of sheep in jeopardy and then are told that we were incompetent?! Shame on you! While I was inclined to release people who were pushing and screaming, one by one into the boat, a large man who was obviously a passenger smoked a cigarette. When I asked "What the **** are you doing smoking a cigarette in this state, in the dark, with fuel that could come out of the boat?!" and his response was "I need it for stress.

I have one thing more to add, before I miss my train ......... We worked for the guests, to save them, to take them to safety, if they are saved, it is only thanks to us alone, all the crew, who did everything. We do not want to be thanked, NO, we have only done our duty, but we do not want to hear all the nonsense, lies, and more lies, just to give you the "scoop" of these so called broadcasts.

4000 PEOPLE IN TWO HOURS, IN THE DARK ... with the ship tilted, we took them WE, THE STAFF CONCORDIA TO SHORE. They did not go themselves in buckets and shovels themselves to the shore! We brought them!!

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the residents of Isola del Giglio, the mayor, who came on board, to verify the situation, (not knowing who he was because he did not have a life jacket!) Thank you with all my heart all, al...l the islanders who worked for all of us, with maximum availability, giving us their colorful blankets, some even knitted of crochet, looking for cell phone chargers, and so much more. Thanks to all of them. Now I'm off to catch a train and go home. See you soon. Oh, I forgot .... one more thing I would like to say "Shame on you!!""

 

If all of this is true and comes out through the investigation it will be very interesting. But we already know that all the passengers were indeed NOT rescued in 2 hours. There are charges the Captian didn't stay until the end and so much more. But I thought it was interesting to hear from another point of view. Thoughts?:confused:

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't Titanic supposed to be able to float with 4 of its 16 compartments flooded? 5 of course were cut, and that led to the rest being flooded and the ship going to the bottom.

 

The new regulations, if I read them right, require a modern mega cruise ship to stay afloat with only 2 compartments compromised. If you get 3 flooded you're toast. Seems less than what the Titanic had...? Or am I misunderstanding?

 

I know in many ways ships today are better--better steel, more lifeboats, better lifeboats, better watertight compartments (tops esp.), etc., etc., etc.

 

But in this one way was Titanic slightly more able to withstand an accident? Probably not and I'm probably just not understanding things very well...

 

I assume an alarm goes off when you close the watertight doors? Was that done on the Costa? But passengers seem to be saying that no alarms went off until the abandon ship alarm, if I'm understanding correctly....

 

Anyway, a lot will be cleared up by the investigation, obviously...

A flaw in the design of Titanic was that the watertight compartments did not go high enough, so when the forward compartments flooded and the bow dipped down, water flowed over the top of the watertight 'walls' to the next compartment. Since then, I believe that watertight compartments go much higher on the ship.

 

When watertight doors are closed (and it happens slowly) an alarm sounds, but it is a local alarm and would only be heard within 20metres or so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • Hurricane Zone 2024
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Cruise Critic News & Features
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...

If you are already a Cruise Critic member, please log in with your existing account information or your email address and password.