Costa Concordia SINKING

[Davyjonesrugrat]

davyjonesrugrat, thank you for clearing this up. I'd also like to thank you, (and Topsham), for your professional input on the thread. I've found it very helpful.

Thank you I have tried to put forward my knowledge on this area, tradgic as it is. I must say that I am very impressed with the actions of my Italian colleagues during this who sorry incident.

 

To all those unsung heroes and people not mentioned in any form for their actions I can only express my admiration of them all.....

 

rgds

[Janman]

A few years ago we were on a Costa ship in a location that had a full view of the bridge. Numerous bottles of alcohol were clearly visible, Maybe these were for the "special" guests. We were shocked that they were in plain view. Five days ago I questioned whether the captain had been give a sobriety test. Why isn't there a camera in the bridge recording who is there and what is going on just like you would have in a bank. This evidence could have been recovered.

[chabre]

A few years ago we were on a Costa ship in a location that had a full view of the bridge. Numerous bottles of alcohol were clearly visible, Maybe these were for the "special" guests. We were shocked that they were in plain view. Five days ago I questioned whether the captain had been give a sobriety test. Why isn't there a camera in the bridge recording who is there and what is going on just like you would have in a bank. This evidence could have been recovered.

 

to my knowledge, there are cameras, recorded in the black/orange box. also it has microphones to record any conversation at the bridge, anyone ca confirm this?

[EVALUATOR]

Why isn't there a camera in the bridge recording who is there and what is going on just like you would have in a bank. This evidence could have been recovered.

 

There are hundreds and hundreds of cameras on these ships. Including the bridge.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Which naturally, the question follows, are there audits? and how often?

 

What I meant is are the muster drills, emergency procedures audited?

I can only relate to my area which is Search and Rescue and state as a signatory of the relevant rules for SAR we are audited periodically, my station is getting audited in March. This is a legal requirement of the UK.

 

Im not aware of how Shipping companies are audited.

 

Any ship that comes into a EEC State is periodically inspected, failure of these can mean that the boat is 'blacklisted' or impounded so that under defects are made good they cannot say. There was one cruise line that was stopped from sailing from Southampton last year because it failed certain requirements.

 

This type of field is very intensive to say the least, it is by no means an easy topic to fully understand and my grasp might in some areas be 'dodgey' but its just a generalisation that I am trying to give

 

rgds

[Gwa123]

Yes i agree that the captain of this ship was despicable,his actions should put him in prison for a very long time!

 

I can't help thinking though that this is a more systemic problem. Its really easy for costa/carnival to blame the captin he did some really stupid things.

 

Costa authorised a similar sail by salute last August??? Why?

Carnival is happy to stay quiet and stay out of this,no one has mentioned they are responsible for Costa and own most of the other cruise lines too. shame on them!!!

Is this all about profit? The compensation for cancelled cruises policy just shows its about money 30% future cruise credit for poor customers who are less than a month away from their,possibly,dream cruise.

 

Carnival get involved in a problem that is yours!!

 

We are Carnival regulars having sailed 5 times Holland America (carnival) 1 time P&O (carnival)

[Loonbeam]

The third link answers one of my questions:

 

"Enforcement

 

The enforcement of IMO conventions depends upon the Governments of Member Parties. The Organization itself has no powers to enforce conventions."

 

 

So basically, they are not regulations, they are conventions and member orgs decide how and what to enforce?

 

http://www.imo.org/blast/contents.asp?topic_id=68&doc_id=513

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Maritime_Organization

http://www.interferry.com/regulations

 

These all give various tasks of the IMO.

 

As the UK is a signatory of the IMO we are legally bound to carry out the regulations they give..

 

The list of signatory countries is found at https://imo.amsa.gov.au/public/parties/imo-members.html

 

rgds

[Cuizer2]

Seafarers outraged captain jumped ship

 

 

 

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_19775588?source=rss

[Loonbeam]

This is what I am referring to as SOLAS (and I hope I am right on that). This particular document and its sub conventions don't seem to address Passenger Muster Drills (crew, yes, but not passenger)

 

I still haven't found anything enforceable about Passenger drills - (see my previous post regarding enforcement)

 

 

 

Loonbeam, this appears to be a list of signatories, although the document is full of legal terminology which is absolutely not my field and has my head spinning! :D

 

http://www.imo.org/About/Conventions/StatusOfConventions/Documents/Status%20-%202012.pdf

 

It could be the information that you've already seen, but its all I can find too.

[PRgymnast]

I'd say, no, they can't be trusted. At least not 100%.

 

Here's an interesting article & video on the Costa Atlantica, which departed from Miami yesterday. Has reactions from passengers who were on the ship when they reported about the Concordia.

 

Also says they had 2 muster drills after the accident!!!

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/18/2596193/passengers-on-costa-cruise-undeterred.html

[AAAAmerican]

A young Moldovan woman who says she was with the captain of the Costa Concordia cruise ship after it rammed into a Tuscan reef emerged as a potential new witness Thursday in the investigation into the captain's actions that night.

 

Crew members and passengers have said Capt. Francesco Schettino ate dinner with a woman in the ship's restaurant Friday night, and Italian news reports have said prosecutors want to interview her.

 

 

 

Miss Dominica Cermotan, a 25-year-old Moldovan hostess who said she was working for Costa on the Concordia, said on her Facebook page that she wasn't on duty the night of the grounding but was with Schettino, other officers and the cruise director on the bridge. She said she was called to help with translations of instructions for how the small number of Russian passengers should evacuate.

 

"We were looking for them, searching for them (the Russians)," she said in an interview with Moldova's Journal TV. "We heard them all crying, shouting in all languages."

 

She defended Schettino, saying "he did a great thing, he saved over 3,000 lives," and added he stayed on deck until 11:50 p.m.

 

The ship did hit the rocks and/or reef at 9:45 p.m. Friday the 13th !

 

 

 

:eek::confused:

 

[Beachgal528]

My husband and I have decided not to cruise. With the information provided we are still quite nervous about cruising and will maybe wait till the children are grown up and there is a better safety record for cruising.

 

He's more nervous than I am. But it's still a concern.

 

Thank you for all your feed back on my post about considering cruising.

 

We have been on smaller boats and feel comfortable on those at this point so we may just limit our "cruising" to that for now.

 

Still cruising, just not a large liner quite yet.

 

so are you not going to drive a car at this point either? you have a higher chance of being in a car wreck on a day to day basis than in a ship wreck; i would say look at the statistics but you really shouldn't have to. absolutely silly to let the decisions of 1 captain influence you that much. to each their own I guess....

[ghstudio]

Based on reading the "facts" that are rolling out, I am more convinced than ever that the captain is now trying to accept all blame, thus trying to shield anyone else on the ship or Costa from criminal prosecution. He will not succeed, but he is keeping the focus away from others, at least in the press. Costa certainly wants to provide his defense so they can avoid any fingers that point towards them...in fact if someone else defended the captain, Costa would be panicked....because any defense attorney would try to point to Costa as complicit, etc.

 

It is inconceivable that no one in the bridge noticed the rocks on the chart...there are multiple GPS units with electronic maps as well as paper charts. Unless all of the other officers and Costa personnel were off on the side drinking coffee while the captain steered the ship, there must have been someone who raised a warning flag...yet we now have the captain as the only one in control. Can't be true.... If he was giving instructions to someone else at the controls (likely), then they would have resisted. Hopefully there is a recording of the events on the bridge prior to hitting the rocks.

 

When this is over, I strongly suspect that there will be enough criminal negligence to go around...including CostaHQ. My guess (and that's all it is) is that someone in CostaHQ knew of the plan to do the diversion...and that their director of ships and crisis management had time to notify the authorities well in advance of when the captain raised the mayday, etc....and he was negligent in not doing so. Unless they were discussing favorite chili recipes, he had to know the severity of the incident....and it may be found that he even called others while he was talking with the captain to discuss crisis control. When all is said and done, my guess is that Costa or some folks in CostaHQ will be found criminally negligent which raises some interesting questions on the enforceability of their passenger contract as well as some interesting questions about their insurance claims.

 

my 2 cents...worth no more than 1 cent....

[IRL_Joanie]

Seafarers outraged captain jumped ship

 

 

 

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_19775588?source=rss

 

I LOVE THIS LINK!!!

 

Especially LOVE this paragraph, especially the LAST LINE:

 

QUOTE: "Maritime experts said the tradition of a captain standing by his ship isn't established in international maritime law. Some countries, like Italy, have included it in national laws" UNQUOTE

 

Joanie

[Cruiseorr]

The discussion about positive bouyancy is very interesting because anyone who has had maritime training, as a ship's Master would, knows good and well that after a hull breach, this type of vessel will capsize far quicker than another type of vessel. Schettino knew very well the ship was holed and foundering, soon to keel over, and the notion that he used this knowledge and somehow heroically made the order to put that ship on to the beach is very hard to believe. Now he's going to try and take credit for it though!

It took an hour from impact to grounding during which time he was on the phone to Costa, the Coast Guard, the retired Captain and so on, which to me seems he was hardly able to effectively give navigational orders to the helmsman. He was only worried about his "career" at this time, not the safety of the ship or passengers. It's only conjecture on my part, but I think Costa was giving the orders during that hour from impact to grounding, and I don't think they were telling Schettino to abandon ship, or ground the ship.

The BBC today interviewed a port official who was on board at 2300 and said he never saw the Captain or his senior officers at all, specifically not on the bridge or aiding the evacuation. He said there was one young officer who stayed and helped until the end, but that's it. It goes to figure that the next unsung hero may well have been another young officer or even the helmsman himself who landed that ship on shore, but I really doubt it was the Captain's idea or doing. But, we shall see.

 

I do remember having a discussion about buoyancy with an officer during a bridge tour on one of our cruises. Speaking in laymen's terms, he said that to keep positive buoyancy during the journey, they must make continual adjustments....for example, during the cruise the fuel is consumed and so they replace the diminishing volume/weight of fuel with sea water as ballast. I think the science of positive buoyancy goes back a long ways since here in San Diego, we have an area near the mouth of the harbor called Ballast Point. The Spaniards used to dump rocks used for ballast out of the ship's hold there since they came here lightly loaded. The ballast was needed to keep the ship stable. They returned to Spain heavily laden, so no more need for the rocks.

 

I'm sorry I don't know how to paste or copy a reference,:o but if you google there are a couple of incidents of cruise ship's having suddenly listed over ....

One example was the Crown Princess on July 19, 2006 which had sailed out of Port Canaveral and suddenly heeled over more than 20 degrees. Passengers were injured, some thrown in to the ocean according to the articles. This accident was attributed to human error.

Another was the MS Nordlys which had an engine room fire and took on water, causing it to list over 20 degrees on 9/16/2011.

[OneOneNiner]

Actually, on an Italian flagged and owned boat one could make a case for italian being the language in question.

 

AFAIK it doesn't matter which flag they are sailing under or where the officers are from. I heared that the policy is for them to speak english after an emergency has been declared!

[reallyitsmema]

AFAIK it doesn't matter which flag they are sailing under or where the officers are from. I heared that the policy is for them to speak english after an emergency has been declared!

On one of the youtube videos that was posted last night, you can clearly hear someone announcing, in english, that everyone was to remain calm. I will look for a link but it was a passenger video of people crowd on deck waiting to board lifeboats.

 

Edit to add link:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/passenger-videos-show-panic-wreck-costa-concordia-cruise-ship-mediterranean-article-1.1006923?localLinksEnabled=false

 

Look at last video in this article. Crew on deck yelling in Italian but PA definitely in English.

[deckofficer]

The discussion about positive bouyancy is very interesting because anyone who has had maritime training, as a ship's Master would, knows good and well that after a hull breach, this type of vessel will capsize far quicker than another type of vessel. Schettino knew very well the ship was holed and foundering, soon to keel over, and the notion that he used this knowledge and somehow heroically made the order to put that ship on to the beach is very hard to believe. Now he's going to try and take credit for it though!

It took an hour from impact to grounding during which time he was on the phone to Costa, the Coast Guard, the retired Captain and so on, which to me seems he was hardly able to effectively give navigational orders to the helmsman. He was only worried about his "career" at this time, not the safety of the ship or passengers. It's only conjecture on my part, but I think Costa was giving the orders during that hour from impact to grounding, and I don't think they were telling Schettino to abandon ship, or ground the ship.

The BBC today interviewed a port official who was on board at 2300 and said he never saw the Captain or his senior officers at all, specifically not on the bridge or aiding the evacuation. He said there was one young officer who stayed and helped until the end, but that's it. It goes to figure that the next unsung hero may well have been another young officer or even the helmsman himself who landed that ship on shore, but I really doubt it was the Captain's idea or doing. But, we shall see.

 

I do remember having a discussion about buoyancy with an officer during a bridge tour on one of our cruises. Speaking in laymen's terms, he said that to keep positive buoyancy during the journey, they must make continual adjustments....for example, during the cruise the fuel is consumed and so they replace the diminishing volume/weight of fuel with sea water as ballast. I think the science of positive buoyancy goes back a long ways since here in San Diego, we have an area near the mouth of the harbor called Ballast Point. The Spaniards used to dump rocks used for ballast out of the ship's hold there since they came here lightly loaded. The ballast was needed to keep the ship stable. They returned to Spain heavily laden, so no more need for the rocks.

 

I'm sorry I don't know how to paste or copy a reference,:o but if you google there are a couple of incidents of cruise ship's having suddenly listed over ....

One example was the Crown Princess on July 19, 2006 which had sailed out of Port Canaveral and suddenly heeled over more than 20 degrees. Passengers were injured, some thrown in to the ocean according to the articles. This accident was attributed to human error.

Another was the MS Nordlys which had an engine room fire and took on water, causing it to list over 20 degrees on 9/16/2011.

 

You are a informed cruiser, I tip my hat to you. The only item to change is positive stability, not buoyancy.

[Feelin' Nauti']

Gilligan and the Skipper would have handled this better than how the Captain did.

[Janman]

Did anyone see CNN last night where they showed the newspaper headline calling the captain "Chicken of the Sea"?

[Feelin' Nauti']

Wonder how Dominica Cermotan, the Moldovan hostess, escaped the stricken ship???

Did she accidentally stumble into the arms, oops, same Life Boat with the Cowardly Captain????

[deckofficer]

 

Ship Stability diagram showing centre of gravity (G), centre of buoyancy (B), and metacentre (M) with ship upright and heeled over to one side. Note that for small angles, G and M are fixed, while B moves as the ship heels, while for big angles both B and M are moving.

[deckofficer]

Did anyone see CNN last night where they showed the newspaper headline calling the captain "Chicken of the Sea"?

 

I'm sure the captain sees himself more as a rooster.

[reallyitsmema]

 

Ship Stability diagram showing centre of gravity (G), centre of buoyancy (B), and metacentre (M) with ship upright and heeled over to one side. Note that for small angles, G and M are fixed, while B moves as the ship heels, while for big angles both B and M are moving.

Wikipedia? LOL

 

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[Ravenscroft]

Wishing once again we had a 'Like' button here at CC ;)