Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 19, 2012 #3176 Share Posted January 19, 2012 davyjonesrugrat, thank you for clearing this up. I'd also like to thank you, (and Topsham), for your professional input on the thread. I've found it very helpful.Thank you I have tried to put forward my knowledge on this area, tradgic as it is. I must say that I am very impressed with the actions of my Italian colleagues during this who sorry incident. To all those unsung heroes and people not mentioned in any form for their actions I can only express my admiration of them all..... rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janman Posted January 19, 2012 #3177 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A few years ago we were on a Costa ship in a location that had a full view of the bridge. Numerous bottles of alcohol were clearly visible, Maybe these were for the "special" guests. We were shocked that they were in plain view. Five days ago I questioned whether the captain had been give a sobriety test. Why isn't there a camera in the bridge recording who is there and what is going on just like you would have in a bank. This evidence could have been recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chabre Posted January 19, 2012 #3178 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A few years ago we were on a Costa ship in a location that had a full view of the bridge. Numerous bottles of alcohol were clearly visible, Maybe these were for the "special" guests. We were shocked that they were in plain view. Five days ago I questioned whether the captain had been give a sobriety test. Why isn't there a camera in the bridge recording who is there and what is going on just like you would have in a bank. This evidence could have been recovered. to my knowledge, there are cameras, recorded in the black/orange box. also it has microphones to record any conversation at the bridge, anyone ca confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVALUATOR Posted January 19, 2012 #3179 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Why isn't there a camera in the bridge recording who is there and what is going on just like you would have in a bank. This evidence could have been recovered. There are hundreds and hundreds of cameras on these ships. Including the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 19, 2012 #3180 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Which naturally, the question follows, are there audits? and how often? What I meant is are the muster drills, emergency procedures audited? I can only relate to my area which is Search and Rescue and state as a signatory of the relevant rules for SAR we are audited periodically, my station is getting audited in March. This is a legal requirement of the UK. Im not aware of how Shipping companies are audited. Any ship that comes into a EEC State is periodically inspected, failure of these can mean that the boat is 'blacklisted' or impounded so that under defects are made good they cannot say. There was one cruise line that was stopped from sailing from Southampton last year because it failed certain requirements. This type of field is very intensive to say the least, it is by no means an easy topic to fully understand and my grasp might in some areas be 'dodgey' but its just a generalisation that I am trying to give rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwa123 Posted January 19, 2012 #3181 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yes i agree that the captain of this ship was despicable,his actions should put him in prison for a very long time! I can't help thinking though that this is a more systemic problem. Its really easy for costa/carnival to blame the captin he did some really stupid things. Costa authorised a similar sail by salute last August??? Why? Carnival is happy to stay quiet and stay out of this,no one has mentioned they are responsible for Costa and own most of the other cruise lines too. shame on them!!! Is this all about profit? The compensation for cancelled cruises policy just shows its about money 30% future cruise credit for poor customers who are less than a month away from their,possibly,dream cruise. Carnival get involved in a problem that is yours!! We are Carnival regulars having sailed 5 times Holland America (carnival) 1 time P&O (carnival) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonbeam Posted January 19, 2012 #3182 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The third link answers one of my questions: "Enforcement The enforcement of IMO conventions depends upon the Governments of Member Parties. The Organization itself has no powers to enforce conventions." So basically, they are not regulations, they are conventions and member orgs decide how and what to enforce? http://www.imo.org/blast/contents.asp?topic_id=68&doc_id=513http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Maritime_Organization http://www.interferry.com/regulations These all give various tasks of the IMO. As the UK is a signatory of the IMO we are legally bound to carry out the regulations they give.. The list of signatory countries is found at https://imo.amsa.gov.au/public/parties/imo-members.html rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuizer2 Posted January 19, 2012 #3183 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Seafarers outraged captain jumped ship http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_19775588?source=rss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonbeam Posted January 19, 2012 #3184 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This is what I am referring to as SOLAS (and I hope I am right on that). This particular document and its sub conventions don't seem to address Passenger Muster Drills (crew, yes, but not passenger) I still haven't found anything enforceable about Passenger drills - (see my previous post regarding enforcement) Loonbeam, this appears to be a list of signatories, although the document is full of legal terminology which is absolutely not my field and has my head spinning! :D http://www.imo.org/About/Conventions/StatusOfConventions/Documents/Status%20-%202012.pdf It could be the information that you've already seen, but its all I can find too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRgymnast Posted January 19, 2012 #3185 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'd say, no, they can't be trusted. At least not 100%. Here's an interesting article & video on the Costa Atlantica, which departed from Miami yesterday. Has reactions from passengers who were on the ship when they reported about the Concordia. Also says they had 2 muster drills after the accident!!! http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/18/2596193/passengers-on-costa-cruise-undeterred.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAAmerican Posted January 19, 2012 #3186 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A young Moldovan woman who says she was with the captain of the Costa Concordia cruise ship after it rammed into a Tuscan reef emerged as a potential new witness Thursday in the investigation into the captain's actions that night. Crew members and passengers have said Capt. Francesco Schettino ate dinner with a woman in the ship's restaurant Friday night, and Italian news reports have said prosecutors want to interview her. Miss Dominica Cermotan, a 25-year-old Moldovan hostess who said she was working for Costa on the Concordia, said on her Facebook page that she wasn't on duty the night of the grounding but was with Schettino, other officers and the cruise director on the bridge. She said she was called to help with translations of instructions for how the small number of Russian passengers should evacuate. "We were looking for them, searching for them (the Russians)," she said in an interview with Moldova's Journal TV. "We heard them all crying, shouting in all languages." She defended Schettino, saying "he did a great thing, he saved over 3,000 lives," and added he stayed on deck until 11:50 p.m. The ship did hit the rocks and/or reef at 9:45 p.m. Friday the 13th ! :eek::confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachgal528 Posted January 19, 2012 #3187 Share Posted January 19, 2012 My husband and I have decided not to cruise. With the information provided we are still quite nervous about cruising and will maybe wait till the children are grown up and there is a better safety record for cruising. He's more nervous than I am. But it's still a concern. Thank you for all your feed back on my post about considering cruising. We have been on smaller boats and feel comfortable on those at this point so we may just limit our "cruising" to that for now. Still cruising, just not a large liner quite yet. so are you not going to drive a car at this point either? you have a higher chance of being in a car wreck on a day to day basis than in a ship wreck; i would say look at the statistics but you really shouldn't have to. absolutely silly to let the decisions of 1 captain influence you that much. to each their own I guess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ghstudio Posted January 19, 2012 #3188 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Based on reading the "facts" that are rolling out, I am more convinced than ever that the captain is now trying to accept all blame, thus trying to shield anyone else on the ship or Costa from criminal prosecution. He will not succeed, but he is keeping the focus away from others, at least in the press. Costa certainly wants to provide his defense so they can avoid any fingers that point towards them...in fact if someone else defended the captain, Costa would be panicked....because any defense attorney would try to point to Costa as complicit, etc. It is inconceivable that no one in the bridge noticed the rocks on the chart...there are multiple GPS units with electronic maps as well as paper charts. Unless all of the other officers and Costa personnel were off on the side drinking coffee while the captain steered the ship, there must have been someone who raised a warning flag...yet we now have the captain as the only one in control. Can't be true.... If he was giving instructions to someone else at the controls (likely), then they would have resisted. Hopefully there is a recording of the events on the bridge prior to hitting the rocks. When this is over, I strongly suspect that there will be enough criminal negligence to go around...including CostaHQ. My guess (and that's all it is) is that someone in CostaHQ knew of the plan to do the diversion...and that their director of ships and crisis management had time to notify the authorities well in advance of when the captain raised the mayday, etc....and he was negligent in not doing so. Unless they were discussing favorite chili recipes, he had to know the severity of the incident....and it may be found that he even called others while he was talking with the captain to discuss crisis control. When all is said and done, my guess is that Costa or some folks in CostaHQ will be found criminally negligent which raises some interesting questions on the enforceability of their passenger contract as well as some interesting questions about their insurance claims. my 2 cents...worth no more than 1 cent.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRL_Joanie Posted January 19, 2012 #3189 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Seafarers outraged captain jumped ship http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_19775588?source=rss I LOVE THIS LINK!!! Especially LOVE this paragraph, especially the LAST LINE: QUOTE: "Maritime experts said the tradition of a captain standing by his ship isn't established in international maritime law. Some countries, like Italy, have included it in national laws" UNQUOTE Joanie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiseorr Posted January 19, 2012 #3190 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The discussion about positive bouyancy is very interesting because anyone who has had maritime training, as a ship's Master would, knows good and well that after a hull breach, this type of vessel will capsize far quicker than another type of vessel. Schettino knew very well the ship was holed and foundering, soon to keel over, and the notion that he used this knowledge and somehow heroically made the order to put that ship on to the beach is very hard to believe. Now he's going to try and take credit for it though! It took an hour from impact to grounding during which time he was on the phone to Costa, the Coast Guard, the retired Captain and so on, which to me seems he was hardly able to effectively give navigational orders to the helmsman. He was only worried about his "career" at this time, not the safety of the ship or passengers. It's only conjecture on my part, but I think Costa was giving the orders during that hour from impact to grounding, and I don't think they were telling Schettino to abandon ship, or ground the ship. The BBC today interviewed a port official who was on board at 2300 and said he never saw the Captain or his senior officers at all, specifically not on the bridge or aiding the evacuation. He said there was one young officer who stayed and helped until the end, but that's it. It goes to figure that the next unsung hero may well have been another young officer or even the helmsman himself who landed that ship on shore, but I really doubt it was the Captain's idea or doing. But, we shall see. I do remember having a discussion about buoyancy with an officer during a bridge tour on one of our cruises. Speaking in laymen's terms, he said that to keep positive buoyancy during the journey, they must make continual adjustments....for example, during the cruise the fuel is consumed and so they replace the diminishing volume/weight of fuel with sea water as ballast. I think the science of positive buoyancy goes back a long ways since here in San Diego, we have an area near the mouth of the harbor called Ballast Point. The Spaniards used to dump rocks used for ballast out of the ship's hold there since they came here lightly loaded. The ballast was needed to keep the ship stable. They returned to Spain heavily laden, so no more need for the rocks. I'm sorry I don't know how to paste or copy a reference,:o but if you google there are a couple of incidents of cruise ship's having suddenly listed over .... One example was the Crown Princess on July 19, 2006 which had sailed out of Port Canaveral and suddenly heeled over more than 20 degrees. Passengers were injured, some thrown in to the ocean according to the articles. This accident was attributed to human error. Another was the MS Nordlys which had an engine room fire and took on water, causing it to list over 20 degrees on 9/16/2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneOneNiner Posted January 19, 2012 #3191 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Actually, on an Italian flagged and owned boat one could make a case for italian being the language in question. AFAIK it doesn't matter which flag they are sailing under or where the officers are from. I heared that the policy is for them to speak english after an emergency has been declared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyitsmema Posted January 19, 2012 #3192 Share Posted January 19, 2012 AFAIK it doesn't matter which flag they are sailing under or where the officers are from. I heared that the policy is for them to speak english after an emergency has been declared! On one of the youtube videos that was posted last night, you can clearly hear someone announcing, in english, that everyone was to remain calm. I will look for a link but it was a passenger video of people crowd on deck waiting to board lifeboats. Edit to add link: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/passenger-videos-show-panic-wreck-costa-concordia-cruise-ship-mediterranean-article-1.1006923?localLinksEnabled=false Look at last video in this article. Crew on deck yelling in Italian but PA definitely in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckofficer Posted January 19, 2012 #3193 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The discussion about positive bouyancy is very interesting because anyone who has had maritime training, as a ship's Master would, knows good and well that after a hull breach, this type of vessel will capsize far quicker than another type of vessel. Schettino knew very well the ship was holed and foundering, soon to keel over, and the notion that he used this knowledge and somehow heroically made the order to put that ship on to the beach is very hard to believe. Now he's going to try and take credit for it though! It took an hour from impact to grounding during which time he was on the phone to Costa, the Coast Guard, the retired Captain and so on, which to me seems he was hardly able to effectively give navigational orders to the helmsman. He was only worried about his "career" at this time, not the safety of the ship or passengers. It's only conjecture on my part, but I think Costa was giving the orders during that hour from impact to grounding, and I don't think they were telling Schettino to abandon ship, or ground the ship. The BBC today interviewed a port official who was on board at 2300 and said he never saw the Captain or his senior officers at all, specifically not on the bridge or aiding the evacuation. He said there was one young officer who stayed and helped until the end, but that's it. It goes to figure that the next unsung hero may well have been another young officer or even the helmsman himself who landed that ship on shore, but I really doubt it was the Captain's idea or doing. But, we shall see. I do remember having a discussion about buoyancy with an officer during a bridge tour on one of our cruises. Speaking in laymen's terms, he said that to keep positive buoyancy during the journey, they must make continual adjustments....for example, during the cruise the fuel is consumed and so they replace the diminishing volume/weight of fuel with sea water as ballast. I think the science of positive buoyancy goes back a long ways since here in San Diego, we have an area near the mouth of the harbor called Ballast Point. The Spaniards used to dump rocks used for ballast out of the ship's hold there since they came here lightly loaded. The ballast was needed to keep the ship stable. They returned to Spain heavily laden, so no more need for the rocks. I'm sorry I don't know how to paste or copy a reference,:o but if you google there are a couple of incidents of cruise ship's having suddenly listed over .... One example was the Crown Princess on July 19, 2006 which had sailed out of Port Canaveral and suddenly heeled over more than 20 degrees. Passengers were injured, some thrown in to the ocean according to the articles. This accident was attributed to human error. Another was the MS Nordlys which had an engine room fire and took on water, causing it to list over 20 degrees on 9/16/2011. You are a informed cruiser, I tip my hat to you. The only item to change is positive stability, not buoyancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelin' Nauti' Posted January 19, 2012 #3194 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Gilligan and the Skipper would have handled this better than how the Captain did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janman Posted January 19, 2012 #3195 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Did anyone see CNN last night where they showed the newspaper headline calling the captain "Chicken of the Sea"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelin' Nauti' Posted January 19, 2012 #3196 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Wonder how Dominica Cermotan, the Moldovan hostess, escaped the stricken ship??? Did she accidentally stumble into the arms, oops, same Life Boat with the Cowardly Captain???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckofficer Posted January 19, 2012 #3197 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ship Stability diagram showing centre of gravity (G), centre of buoyancy (B), and metacentre (M) with ship upright and heeled over to one side. Note that for small angles, G and M are fixed, while B moves as the ship heels, while for big angles both B and M are moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckofficer Posted January 19, 2012 #3198 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Did anyone see CNN last night where they showed the newspaper headline calling the captain "Chicken of the Sea"? I'm sure the captain sees himself more as a rooster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyitsmema Posted January 19, 2012 #3199 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ship Stability diagram showing centre of gravity (G), centre of buoyancy (B), and metacentre (M) with ship upright and heeled over to one side. Note that for small angles, G and M are fixed, while B moves as the ship heels, while for big angles both B and M are moving. Wikipedia? LOL Copyright Infringement The posting of blocks of text obtained from anywhere on the Internet, online newspapers, web sites, Facebook and other social media sites, magazines, etc., defeats the purpose of our Cruise Boards. All of this information is available to everyone online, and doesn't add to the idea of sharing firsthand experiences and cruise advice. Also, the majority of information out there is protected by an author's individual copyright. Therefore, we will remove such information from the message boards. However, linking via url to the information is allowed. The one exception to this would be Cruise Line press releases. You may post these word for word on the boards, if you clearly indicate the source. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/faq.php?faq=guidelines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenscroft Posted January 19, 2012 #3200 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Wishing once again we had a 'Like' button here at CC ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.