Costa Concordia SINKING

[Evil Jeremy]

Rich,

 

Thank you for that. I think I gave up here after I stated "I hadn't been on a modern bridge" and posters here saw that as a further deficit of my knowledge. The Costa ship involved was built just 5 years ago. I haven't been on the bridge for 10 years and wasn't certain of new digital recording techniques for documentation. Prior to 10 years ago I spent 6 months a year on the bridge.

 

My warmest welcome for you to join me on the above mentioned forums. My username is "deckofficer" on all of them and to end on an uplifting note, read up on that last forum I mentioned on a truly amazing young sailor named Laura Dekker. I will be the first to admit that this 14 year old girl could sail circles around me. In all my life I have never known such a natural and gifted sailor, no matter what she is sailing, from the tall ship "Amsterdam" with its multitude of sails, all the way down to a Mini-Cat inflatable catamaran sail boat that I've seen her fly a hull on in heavy weather, it is a sixth sense for her, she quickly dials in.

 

This is at least the third time you have said you are leaving. Are you going to or not? If you are staying, please, please stop boasting about your website and other unrelated info when we are trying to focus on a tragedy. Either add to the discussion or stop posting unrelated topics.

[Topsham]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16584591

 

Here is my source....

 

 

My guess is that they just got it wrong.

 

A Security Officer on board is like a ship's policeman. They are usually retired police officers or ex army etc. They might be a two stripped offiocetr or perhaps even the equivilant rank of First officer but they do not switch over to the navigational side. There is no cross over between the two jobs.

[Enigm@]

That's all fair comment, Loonbeam. However, at the company press conference it was stated that an audible alarm would sound on the bridge if a significant departure from the pre-planned route occurred..... so, perhaps some kind of alarm should activate at company HQ at the same time?

 

 

I don't know about these things, just asking, but is there any chance the Captain could have turned off the alarm as he manually overrode the navigation system?

 

If so, then perhaps it should be made impossible to turn the alarm off, & also, as you suggest, ensure the alarm is also linked to HQ.

[luckybogey]

Sorry, the black box COULD and DID record his conversation - just as it does when he is on the bridge with his handheld radio directing the crew. The way it works is that his frequency (and many others) are recorded regardless of where he is. The range on his handheld is in miles - not feet.

 

How do I know? I help develop some the software involved in these "black boxes" used in the maritime and aviation industries. His conversation was recorded if he used his handheld radio - which I am sure he did since that is the primary access to the Port Authority.

 

Per the below source, appears to be a VDR 4350 from SAM Electronics)

 

Speed log – Speed through water or speed over ground.

Gyro compass – Heading.

Radar – As displayed or AIS data if no off-the-shelf converter available for the Radar video.

Audio from the bridge, including bridge wings.

VHF radio communications.

Echo sounder – Depth under keel.

Main alarms – All IMO mandatory alarms.

Hull openings – Status of hull doors as indicated on the bridge.

Watertight & fire doors status as indicated on the bridge.

Hull stress – Accelerations and hull stresses. <Rudder – Order and feedback response.

Engine/Propeller – Order and feedback response.

Thrusters* – Status, direction, amount of thrust % or RPM. Anemometer and weather vane – Wind speed and direction

 

Original Source: http://billwarner.posterous.com/tag/voyagedatarecorder

[Aplmac]

This is at least the third time you have said you are leaving. Are you going to or not? If you are staying, please, please stop boasting about your website and other unrelated info when we are trying to focus on a tragedy. Either add to the discussion or stop posting unrelated topics.

I tried signing up to his website

got frustrated after five tries and gave up

.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

This is at least the third time you have said you are leaving. Are you going to or not? If you are staying, please, please stop boasting about your website and other unrelated info when we are trying to focus on a tragedy. Either add to the discussion or stop posting unrelated topics.

 

If you go to your profile area and edit your friends list it allows you the option of 'blocking' a member. Its one way of getting rid of these annoying posts being made by him.

 

rgds

:)

[Hebersgyll]

From my cruises on Princess and Royal Caribbean, I understood from talking to the crew, that every cruise ship is constantly monitored from a "control room" (location secret), where every element of what's going on is kept track of. Not only monitoring all the key systems & equipment on the ship, but everything regarding navigation etc. (and b/c of safety/ terrorists, too)

 

Wouldn't you think that would be the minimum Carnival/Costa would do with a half billion dollar investment and 4200+ pax on board?

 

So at "cruise mission control central" wouldn't you think that someone would have noticed the insane course that captain was taking and asked some questions?

 

The whole thing leaves me sad and flabbergasted how this can happen.

 

Yep... your thoughts are very similar to mine. The timescale is a significant factor. I haven't worked out just how long the time interval was between the change of course and the impact but I guess it was not too long. However, these systems ought to be in place and if automated set to produce a 'human response' to at least review if not intervene pretty sharply.

[Canadian Karebear]

Yep... your thoughts are very similar to mine. The timescale is a significant factor. I haven't worked out just how long the time interval was between the change of course and the impact but I guess it was not too long. However, these systems ought to be in place and if automated set to produce a 'human response' to at least review if not intervene pretty sharply.

 

I have to wonder if they did notice and he indicated he has done this before (as others have noted he has) and that all was good. Why question the authority if it seems plausible?

 

Baffling to me for sure too.

[Loonbeam]

There may even be.. That said, there would have to be some variance built into the system or you would get tons of false alarms.

 

So even if there was, you would probably see a sequence of events like this..

 

At the first deviation, there would be a bridge alarm. Since the maneuver was planned, probably silenced. As the variance increased, maybe another alarm.

 

At a certain variance amount (assuming real time data, BTW), the control center is notified automatically (since manual notification is not going to happen in this case). Someone in the command center has to look at the track and figure out what the issue is. Most likely they will try to contact the ship and see what's happening.

 

Perhaps they do, Captain says I am adjusting course for reason X. Satisfied, control hangs up the connection. Another alert comes, this time for a huge variance... This time the ship doesn't answer.

 

Systems like this are designed to operate based on manual alerts and unplanned deviation. Even with them, an intentional deviation would be hard to divert in the necessary time.

 

That's all fair comment, Loonbeam. However, at the company press conference it was stated that an audible alarm would sound on the bridge if a significant departure from the pre-planned route occurred..... so, perhaps some kind of alarm should activate at company HQ at the same time?

 

Procedures should then require the captain to briefly inform HQ of the reason for the deviation... might be weather conditions, response to nearby emergency, whatever. At least HQ has some understanding of what is happening out there... which avoids the risk of the kind of behaviour which led to this disaster? If no such report is received from the ship the coourse alteration would be questioned from HQ. (Depending on the timescale for intervention, of course.)

 

I'm guessing that systems of this kind also need to be in place in case of terrorist attacks on ships including the Somalia type and the more sophisticated kind not yet experienced?

 

The inquiry into this tragedy should also look closely at the actions of the first officer, navigation offficer, officer i/c of ship's security and others in their not effectively challenging the navigational course taken by the ship?

[ghstudio]

I have to wonder if they did notice and he indicated he has done this before (as others have noted he has) and that all was good. Why question the authority if it seems plausible?

 

Baffling to me for sure too.

 

A Costa ship has done a "fly by" before....this captain has never done a "fly by" as far as anyone knows. On the previous close sailing the course had been approved by the coast guard and Costa HQ before they did the close approach. So far, no one has said that anyone approved anything about the diversion for the concordia.

[foxesden1]

thanks for the info on the black box!

[Zeta3]

Just out of curiosity does anybody know who was Captain when the approved fly-by was done? Just wondering if he had done the approved one he felt he knew the route well enough to do it again.

[volvo99]

There's talk that this won't hurt the industry much. I tend to disagree. If any of the major media outlets actually go through and do stories on the safety in the industry and the fact that most of the crews make next to nothing.....this isn't airliners with highly paid stewardesses and flight crews. This is people making a few thousand a year working unbearable hours.

 

JMHO, the aftermath if this is proven to be gross negligence will be bad for the industry.

 

 

Airlines stopped having highly paid "stewardesses" and flight crews about 20 years ago when the commercial airline industry decided that overcompensating CEOs, outsourcing maintenance, and watering down safety regulations did a magic number on the bottom line; something that the cruise industry does very well with flags of convenience, anti-labor employment practices, and sweatshop working conditions that no American would put up half a day with. If there indeed are hidden safety lapses and sweeping safety under the rug going on, then by all means we need the media to pry open the lid of secrecy.

[luckybogey]

I agree. The anchors were not dropped. Note: Insert shows dropped anchor on Concordia in Brazil.

 

Update: There continue to be sources saying the Concordia did in fact drop the "port" anchor and swung around to its current resting place. This is possible however the photos that I initially reviewed do not show the port anchor being dropped as best I can determine. I personally believe that while making the port turn the Captain ran aground intentionally and the Concordia capsized due to shallow water (i.e. Draught: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)).

[cubella59]

Nope, that was me who posted that his wife and daughter boarded in Civi on Dec 27. I have no idea if they were still on when this happened.

 

It was my understanding he was onboard with his wife and daughter?

[bobsig]

Airlines stopped having highly paid "stewardesses" and flight crews about 20 years ago when the commercial airline industry decided that overcompensating CEOs, outsourcing maintenance, and watering down safety regulations did a magic number on the bottom line; something that the cruise industry does very well with flags of convenience, anti-labor employment practices, and sweatshop working conditions that no American would put up half a day with. If there indeed are hidden safety lapses and sweeping safety under the rug going on, then by all means we need the media to pry open the lid of secrecy.

 

 

The only problem with your logic is that the airline industry has never been safer and is getting safer each year...so much for "watering down safety regulations..." In fact, the fatal accident rate for U.S. airlines is almost one-half of what it was 20 years ago.

 

Those dang capitalistic corporate mongers...Cubana and Aeroflot - now there are some real safe airlines...:rolleyes:

[Canadian Karebear]

A Costa ship has done a "fly by" before....this captain has never done a "fly by" as far as anyone knows. On the previous close sailing the course had been approved by the coast guard and Costa HQ before they did the close approach. So far, no one has said that anyone approved anything about the diversion for the concordia.

 

Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate it. I thought this captain was the one that did the previous one.

 

still baffled.

[maggie7667]

Still hoping a praying for those still missing. The American Couple is from the area I live in here is an article about them http://kstp.com/news/stories/S2454839.shtml?cat=1

 

Thoughts and prayers for our Minnesotans and everyone still missing. Such a tragedy. I'm cruising in a few weeks - will certainly be much more aware this trip. Thanks for all the safety tips I've read here these last few days.

[gentlemancruiser]

What ship might that be and what were their mistakes?

 

MSC Poesia?

[green cruiser]

Alone, in a dark ship with rising water. This is not how anyone would want an elderly relative to die. Limited mobility, or a spouse with mobility issues, may well have decreased a person's chances of surviving what was supposed to be the trip of a lifetime.

[gwenscompany]

First ---> Prayers to everyone....

Does anyone (especially DeckOfficer) have information about the following questions:

Any additional nformation about how the ship may be moved?

Will it be repaired; if so what is the port (i.e repair facility) location?

Any information about how Costa is managing the future Concordia cruises?

Is Costa keeping the Concordia cruises that have been booked in August?

Lastly, does anyone remember how long the Carnival Splendor was out of service?

Thank you

:)

[OneOneNiner]

First ---> Prayers to everyone....

 

Does anyone (especially DeckOfficer) have information about the following questions:

 

Any additional nformation about how the ship may be moved?

Will it be repaired; if so what is the port (i.e repair facility) location?

Any information about how Costa is managing the future Concordia cruises?

Is Costa keeping the Concordia cruises that have been booked in August?

Lastly, does anyone remember how long the Carnival Slendor was out of service?

 

Thank you

:)

If I remember correctly it was 5 or maybe even 6 months until the Splendor returned to regular service.

The Concordia will not be repaired. A lot of reports already and hard to get her out of the current situation. Plus the sea water is damaging the ship severely, since it now is on the inside where it should have never been.

[chriskwarren]

If someone is willing to brave the heat on this forum to offer up a "thanks" to me, I will respond. I would hope if the tables were turned and it was you getting flamed, that you in turn would do the same. Common courtesy in my book Evil. BTW, for me addressing you by YOUR chosen username, a mod here pulled my post. Did you have anything to do with that?

 

Nope, that was me who posted that his wife and daughter boarded in Civi on Dec 27. I have no idea if they were still on when this happened.

 

Thoughts and prayers for our Minnesotans and everyone still missing. Such a tragedy. I'm cruising in a few weeks - will certainly be much more aware this trip. Thanks for all the safety tips I've read here these last few days.

 

Look at the quotes I have placed above....

 

Never in my life on any message board on any topic have I seen such a juxtaposition in the same thread, where folks bicker about the silliest things, while others post about missing friends right in the next post.

 

I think we all have learned from the various opinions offered, and it is appreciated by any who wish to do so. This thread has been pretty informative and a good outlet for those shocked at this tragedy (which is still unfolding).

 

But for now, can we keep the insults and chest-thumping to ourselves (or another thread) out of respect for those who are affected deeply by this, and have not had the pleasure of discovering the ignore button.

[LaJollaCruiser]

This is interesting: http://video.corriere.it/nave-concordia-al-giglio-/9dfa5ea6-3e9b-11e1-8b52-5f77182bc574

It apparently shows a Costa ship doing a very close pass by of Giglio. Something fishy is going on here...

 

This is apparently just what happened. Same ship, video taken last August. Perhaps the same master? Perhaps he had a habit of passing Giglio closeby.

[ghstudio]

First ---> Prayers to everyone....

 

Does anyone (especially DeckOfficer) have information about the following questions:

 

Any additional nformation about how the ship may be moved?

Will it be repaired; if so what is the port (i.e repair facility) location?

Any information about how Costa is managing the future Concordia cruises?

Is Costa keeping the Concordia cruises that have been booked in August?

Lastly, does anyone remember how long the Carnival Slendor was out of service?

 

Thank you

:)

 

Two salvage companies are already on site. The first task is to drain the tanks for environmental reasons. They may brace the ship against the shore first so it doesn't slide into deeper water. Then they will patch the gash and pump out the water, righting the ship. then they will tow it somewere to be rebuilt or for scrap.

 

No one knows yet if it will be repaired or scrapped other than the self proclaimed experts on this and other forums who haven't seen the ship.

 

Costa has released information on how it will handle some of the cruises...see their web site.

 

Costa is not keeping any Concordia cruises....you may have noticed that they don't have that ship in their fleet at this time....

 

The splendor was out of service for three months. Do not expect that of the Concordia...it may take a couple of months to get it to the point where it can even be towed somewhere.