Argentina/Falkland Islands Relations

[WarEagle76]

Interesting article regarding escalating tension between Argentina and the Falkland Islands (especially the first two paragraphs). We'd been told in January on the Falklands that the situation was getting ugly again, and whenever you would say "Falkland Islands" in Buenos Aires or Ushuaia, you would be corrected, stating that they were the "Malvinas". Now that William is on the Falklands for 6 weeks and with the 30th anniversary of the "conflict" coming up, will be watching to see how this all pans out.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2096245/Well-fight-bitter-end-Las-Malvinas-Argentine-warning-conquistador-British-William-lands-Falklands.html

[t60]

Interesting article regarding escalating tension between Argentina and the Falkland Islands (especially the first two paragraphs). We'd been told in January on the Falklands that the situation was getting ugly again, and whenever you would say "Falkland Islands" in Buenos Aires or Ushuaia, you would be corrected, stating that they were the "Malvinas". Now that William is on the Falklands for 6 weeks and with the 30th anniversary of the "conflict" coming up, will be watching to see how this all pans out.

 

We´re on the Star which should visit the Falklands 25th Feb. It will be interesting to see if we get there and if we do what the security is like in view of William being there

 

Sandy in Spain

[paul929207]

We went the other way on the Star (BA to Valpariso) in 2008. It was suggested that we not wear anything saying "Falkland Islands" while we were in Ushuaia.

[digitl]

We went the other way on the Star (BA to Valpariso) in 2008. It was suggested that we not wear anything saying "Falkland Islands" while we were in Ushuaia.

I stood in front of the Argentinian Falklands War Memorial in Buenos Aires 18 months ago wearing my MG cap. I had forgotten it had a Union Flag on it. Nothing happened.

[Fattony]

A non-issue to cruise passengers, I think. It was for our ship 3 years ago. Even many people in Argentina realize that the attempt to "retake" the islands (which were not settled by Argentinians on an ongoing basis over the years) was a last-gasp attempt by the military dictatorship to increase popular support by bringing the populace together in support of a war. The islands are called "Malvinas" in much if not all of Latin America, including Brazil. I doubt many people buy clothing saying "Falklands" to wear on the rest of their trip. The U.S. supported Britian in the war, of course, but if anyone resents the U.S. over past actions, I think it'd be more ofr its support of the dictatorship in Argentina (as well as for those in Brazil and Chile) than for the war in the Falklands/Malvinas. Argentina gets tourists from all over the world. I've not yet heard of British or other tourists being harassed. Haven't read of any popular support in Argentina for another war.

[Scrapchick]

I'm also on the Star Princess going to the Falklands on the 25th of Feb... I'm British born but live in the US. I haven't been to Argentina in 20 years, so it's interesting timing given the escalating tensions in the region. I'm curious to see how it all goes on this trip. I don't think newspaper articles always represent what the average citizen thinks or feels and focuses on the staged demonstrations as an example of how the whole country feels. I read these Daily Mail articles too. I completely disagree with the Argentinian government's claim on the Falklands (to use their official name) but I don't bear any ill will towards the Argentinian people and I doubt they will towards me when I get to Buenos Aires either. It's sabre rattling and it makes for a good story. Many British people live happily in Argentina. I am looking forward to meeting the people there and hope it will be a peaceful, friendly visit. It suits the Argentinian government's purpose to let the demonstrations happen and to burn the British flag, but ultimately, I doubt they will be foolish enough to invade the Falkland Islands for a second time. They have no legal claim to the islands, only a desire for them, and the Islanders themselves have made it very clear they wish to remain part of the UK. This is much ado about very little at the end of the day.

[WarEagle76]

This is much ado about very little at the end of the day.

 

I really hope it turns out to be "much ado about very little" and hope the remainder of the South American cruise season is not impacted by the latest news. The biggest concern we heard from locals we spoke with while on the Falklands was regarding an Argentine naval blockade and their restriction of air space. That said, read this morning UK has dispatched a nuclear submarine and destroyer to the Falklands.

[argentinita]

In the article it refers to the views of veterans, which I think can not be judged as right or wrong. They lived the war first-person, beyond the claim over the Falkland Islands is well founded or not.

On the other hand speaks of masked groups in the center of Buenos Aires. These groups, called "Quebracho" are a well known group of activists protesting always doing some kind of dismantling with sticks, paint, petrol bombs, etc.. To my mind thoughts are radicals who protest everything.

In another paragraph he says that this compels the president to cover the economic situation of our country, here it says this is magnified by them, that his people would not think of the prevailing unemployment and its economic situation.

What I mean is that this reporter's opinion is not the opinion of all the British Isles and the opinion of the veterans of war is not the opinion of all Argentina.

Argentina, and especially Patagonia, receives large revenues from tourism, especially from abroad.

Never heard of attacks on tourists and I have traveled to many places in our country, especially in Patagonia.

[argentinita]

I really hope it turns out to be "much ado about very little" and hope the remainder of the South American cruise season is not impacted by the latest news. The biggest concern we heard from locals we spoke with while on the Falklands was regarding an Argentine naval blockade and their restriction of air space. That said, read this morning UK has dispatched a nuclear submarine and destroyer to the Falklands.

 

The government of Argentina said it is completely unnecessary sending the submarine. What this is a "parade of fire power," which this is handled diplomatically.

Argentina does not want or can go to war.

[Scrapchick]

The government of Argentina said it is completely unnecessary sending the submarine. What this is a "parade of fire power," which this is handled diplomatically.

Argentina does not want or can go to war.

 

I don't think EITHER country wants to go to war. Everyone loses in a war. Both the British and Argentinians paid a heavy price in the 1982 invasion. I sincerely hope it does not happen again. Having said that, given the fact that the Argentinian government does not seem to be happy with the current ownership of the Falkland Islands and has made it clear they do not recognise the British sovereignty of the islands, it unfortunately makes sense for the British to show they intend to defend the islands in the event of another invasion. It took three weeks to send ships down there last time to deal with the unexpected invasion. With all the rhetoric flying around at the moment it is a sensible move to send a message that the British won't be caught unawares if there is a second attempt to invade. It would be a foolish government indeed to leave the islands unguarded and vulnerable to foreign takeover... If Argentina did own the Falklands and the British disputed it and had tried to take them over before, then the Argentinian government would be smart to do the same... I don't think it is a move made to rile the Argentinians, although it has been perceived that way.

[Scrapchick]

I really hope it turns out to be "much ado about very little" and hope the remainder of the South American cruise season is not impacted by the latest news. The biggest concern we heard from locals we spoke with while on the Falklands was regarding an Argentine naval blockade and their restriction of air space. That said, read this morning UK has dispatched a nuclear submarine and destroyer to the Falklands.

 

Unfortunately, Argentina has persuaded most of its neighbors (including land locked Paraguay!) to refuse to allow Falklands flagged vessels from using their ports, and is now leaning heavily on Chile to deny flights headed for the Falklands from using their airspace. Chile doesn't have a dog in this fight, but they are under pressure from their neighbors to show some solidarity... The Argentinians are trying to squeeze the Falklands from all sides. Argentina can easily defuse the tensions in the region by backing off from all this. However, they are instead escalating things and the British really don't have a choice but to respond, or to look like they're weak and don't care.

[t60]

The underlying note is all about economics on both sides, fishing rights, quotas and of course oil exploration

 

Sandy in Spain

[dr__dawggy]

Let's just say that both sides in this centuries old dispute have valid points. How does the present escalation of tension impact cruise ship passengers?

 

1. There is the possibility that British flagged ships might be denied port entry in Argentina, Uruguay and possibly Chile.

 

2. Passengers are concerned about the sentiment of locals toward British or their American allies.

 

Regarding the second point: Argentinos are very good at seperating anti government sentiment from feelings about citizens of a country. Anti-Bush sentiment was very strong in Argentina following the invasion of Iraq. Yet, Bush's twin daughters were warmly greeted during their visit to Buenos Aires (well, except for the purse snatcherr who snatched Jenna's bag...but his reasons were economic not political).

 

Expect to be treated graciously by locals regardless of tension between governments. To my Auburn friend...you will receive better treatment in Buenos aires than in Tuscaloosa during football season.

[WarEagle76]

Sandy in Spain, yes the recent activity around oil exploration in the waters of the Falklands was mentioned as one of the newer issues involved.

 

 

dr dawggy, thanks for the good laugh this morning (have never been to Tuscaloosa and don’t plan to go in the future:)). We were treated well at all of the stops on our cruise. When travelling, we always enjoy encounters with the locals at all destinations and generally ask a simple question, step back, and just let them talk away about their history, cultural and feelings about the current state of affairs. We’ve found local pubs to be a great place to have these kinds of conversations. Additionally, on the December 24th cruise, Americans were in the minority with the majority being South Americans, so the opportunity for discussion presented itself on board as well as on shore. Needless to say, the differing opinions on various subjects ranged from one end of the spectrum to another.

[FredT]

LOL.... Just got off an antarctic cruise. When we finally got to BA, just about everything I had was dirty, so I wore a "Falkland Islands Golf Club" shirt I bought in Port Stanley. The only comment I got was three offers to buy it. Oblivious as I was, I did not realize the significance till the third offer at the end of the second day of wandering the city!

[dr__dawggy]

LOL.... Just got off an antarctic cruise. When we finally got to BA, just about everything I had was dirty, so I wore a "Falkland Islands Golf Club" shirt I bought in Port Stanley. The only comment I got was three offers to buy it. Oblivious as I was, I did not realize the significance till the third offer at the end of the second day of wandering the city!

Like!

[WarEagle76]

LOL.... Just got off an antarctic cruise. When we finally got to BA, just about everything I had was dirty, so I wore a "Falkland Islands Golf Club" shirt I bought in Port Stanley. The only comment I got was three offers to buy it. Oblivious as I was, I did not realize the significance till the third offer at the end of the second day of wandering the city!

 

Too funny! So did you sell it on the third request?:)

 

War of words getting "personal".

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/09/cristina-fernandez-de-kirchner-bitch-penguin-news

[dr__dawggy]

Sandy in Spain, yes the recent activity around oil exploration in the waters of the Falklands was mentioned as one of the newer issues involved.

 

 

dr dawggy, thanks for the good laugh this morning (have never been to Tuscaloosa and don’t plan to go in the future:)). We were treated well at all of the stops on our cruise. When travelling, we always enjoy encounters with the locals at all destinations and generally ask a simple question, step back, and just let them talk away about their history, cultural and feelings about the current state of affairs. We’ve found local pubs to be a great place to have these kinds of conversations. Additionally, on the December 24th cruise, Americans were in the minority with the majority being South Americans, so the opportunity for discussion presented itself on board as well as on shore. Needless to say, the differing opinions on various subjects ranged from one end of the spectrum to another.

 

Local pubs....especially after a couple of glasses of Malbec.

 

Taxi drivers are another great source of conversation. Most are quite conversant with global political and cultural issues. When he found out I was from los Estados Unidos, one taxi driver told me with great conviction that the three best things about the United States were Elvis, Bill Clinton (wish I could pronounce Clinton the way he said it...it added to the conversation) and los Spurs de San Antonio (one of the stars of the spurs, Manu Gnobli, is from Argentina).

[bernardinho]

Local pubs....especially after a couple of glasses of Malbec.

 

Taxi drivers are another great source of conversation. Most are quite conversant with global political and cultural issues. When he found out I was from los Estados Unidos, one taxi driver told me with great conviction that the three best things about the United States were Elvis, Bill Clinton (wish I could pronounce Clinton the way he said it...it added to the conversation) and los Spurs de San Antonio (one of the stars of the spurs, Manu Gnobli, is from Argentina).

Doc,

Agree that many BA cab drivers are "conversant" with global political and cultural issues, some to the point of being opinionated and some quite erudite;however, I hope you will agree that the driver about whom you wrote was not among them if that was an example of his political and cultural savvy.

 

I am surprised by how many intelligent portenos seem to be some jingoistic when it comes to the Malvinas and ridicule the UK as neocolonists. I guess they forget that the nation of Argentina started with Spainish immigrants colonizing the land and killing off the majority of the indigenous population in the process.

[dr__dawggy]

Doc,

Agree that many BA cab drivers are "conversant" with global political and cultural issues, some to the point of being opinionated and some quite erudite;however, I hope you will agree that the driver about whom you wrote was not among them if that was an example of his political and cultural savvy.

 

I am surprised by how many intelligent portenos seem to be some jingoistic when it comes to the Malvinas and ridicule the UK as neocolonists. I guess they forget that the nation of Argentina started with Spainish immigrants colonizing the land and killing off the majority of the indigenous population in the process.

 

Of course I agree. Well, mostly. Elivis is certainly one of the best things about the United States. That particular driver was, however, among the most interesting and humorous drivers I have encountered. His rendition of Blue Suede Shoes was fabulous.

 

I also agree with your comments about attitudes toward the Malvinas. I have been surprised by the number of Argentinos who believe it is the British who have provoked this most recent tension and who provoked the war with Argentina back in the 80's.

 

I suppose we Americans have our "blind spots" as well.

[HDS]

We speak English and no Spanish and have been made very welcome in Buenos Aires this week. Have seen one tent claiming Los Malvinas for Argentina, amongst a lot of other protest tents in the plaza near the presidential palace. Otherwise no action.

Locals shrug and say "let diplomacy sort it".

We saw and heard a rather rambling translation of Monday's president's speech on CNN which promised no more than a protest to the UN.

[jasonflk]

Obviously been a way for a while from the boards. Though I try not to get political, I think it's fair to tell you what's happening from the islands point of view.

 

1) Argentina have been for years putting pressure on the Islanders, sometimes to spite their own faces. S what is happening is nothing new to us.

2) The British military has actually reduced military numbers in the Falklands and hasn't done anything "training" wise different for the last 20 or so years I've been here.

3) I believe Aregntina won't attack the ISlands they are trying to convince the rest of the world and other countries by bully boy tactics that they are correct.

4) The people of the Falklands have always said that we will work with argentina on matters that are mutally benificial and we did for a while but they stopped it.

 

I've said my piece I can elaborate but It will take ages to cover all the points.

[WarEagle76]

Apparently the saga continues:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1581762

[Cruzin Terri]

Apparently the saga continues:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1581762

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Veendam called at Port Stanley on Tuesday and is scheduled to call at Ushuaia on Thursday. It is not under the British Flag but the Netherlands. I wonder if that will make a difference.

Terri