New to Celebrity ...Tipping question.

[dzcruisers]

the celebrity ships are not registered in the us, but in malta, so surely they have to pay their staff the malta minimum wage and cannot use the us system of paying only a token wage?

 

from what i have read their salary is $50. Per month plus tips.

[dzcruisers]

Right, much as servers here may be paid a base wage as low as $2.30 an hour. I suppose if no one tipped, the employer would have to cough it up.

 

And if it were added in it would have to be added in at a greater amount because of taxes etc. So it would cost you more.

[dzcruisers]

Exactly, so I don't understand the aversion to the daily gratuity.

 

Then again, it was an American we overheard pitching an absolute hissy fit about the €2 service charge in a restaurant in Assisi.

 

Americans don't understand that in Italy there is a cuperto charge for being served at a table covers bread, linens, etc.

[Suzy Smith]

Right, much as servers here may be paid a base wage as low as $2.30 an hour. I suppose if no one tipped, the employer would have to cough it up.

 

In Europe the minimum wage is the minimum wage your employer has to pay with no allowance made for tips.

 

 

I am not suggesting you should not pay the tips and I would never remove the auto-gratuities, but I was questioning lsimon's assertion that Celebrity employees are paid a token wage, as can happen in the US. If Celebrity ships are subject to Maltese law it would be illegal for them to pay their crew less than the minimum wage.

[k9x8]

In Europe the minimum wage is the minimum wage your employer has to pay with no allowance made for tips.

 

 

I am not suggesting you should not pay the tips and I would never remove the auto-gratuities, but I was questioning lsimon's assertion that Celebrity employees are paid a token wage, as can happen in the US. If Celebrity ships are subject to Maltese law it would be illegal for them to pay their crew less than the minimum wage.

 

Well, that's why I said I have no idea how the system works.

Even if employees are paid minimum, that's not much of an annual income.

US minimum wage amounts to about $14,000 annually.

[Suzy Smith]

[quote name=k9x8;32570450

Even if employees are paid minimum' date=' that's not much of an annual income.

[/quote]

 

But more than a "token wage", which was the point I was making.

[4774Papa]

I think the biggest problem is for those who come from areas of the world where wages and tipping are culturally different from the situation here. That and the fact that the tipping/gratuity/compensation system really doesn't make sense - especially when you consider the pooling aspect of it. Unfortunately, the system is what it is.

 

 

We also don't know how Malta laws apply to employees on cruise ships. Clearly the minimum wage doesn't apply to their base compensation as everyting I've read or heard indicates that the type of cruise ship employees we're talking about have a base salary, before tips, of only a small fraction of the €680 a month.

When I was a teenager, I worked at a job that paid less than minimum wage, but my tips were so much that I was paid a fair amount over minimum wage. These jobs were a plum to get, since most kids in the 60s and 70s wanted to work. Not sure today.

[TravelerThom]

In Europe the minimum wage is the minimum wage your employer has to pay with no allowance made for tips.

 

I am not suggesting you should not pay the tips and I would never remove the auto-gratuities, but I was questioning lsimon's assertion that Celebrity employees are paid a token wage, as can happen in the US. If Celebrity ships are subject to Maltese law it would be illegal for them to pay their crew less than the minimum wage.

I saw a Royal Caribbean Cruise Ltd [Celebrity is part of RCCL (as is RCI, etc)] waiter contract. They were provided transportation to the ship, room, board, uniforms, and US$50 per month [which I would indeed call "token"]. They were guaranteed US$950 per month including tips. A fly in the ointment is that if you claim you made less than the minimum you would probably never be offered another contract.

 

The individual who shared their contract was a former employee [they left to be ashore with their family, they were not bad-mouthing their former employer] who said that in a bad month they made about $700 [but not claiming their "guaranteed minimum" since they wished to remain employed] and in a great month they made $2800, averaging about $1700.

 

I make no claim to be an expert on Maltese minimum wage versus tip laws, but Celebrity reflagged their ships from Bahamas to Malta about 2008, and I'm sure they were well aware how this was going to affect their bottom line. $950 per month would meet the Maltese 680 Euro per month minimum quoted above. Can you document your assertion that Malta requires the employer to pay a minimum of 680 Euros?

 

Bottom line as I see it [and I could be proved wrong]: the cruise company pays them a token amount and almost all of their income is from tips.

 

Thom

[brfan]

I saw a Royal Caribbean Cruise Ltd [Celebrity is part of RCCL (as is RCI, etc)] waiter contract. They were provided transportation to the ship, room, board, uniforms, and US$50 per month [which I would indeed call "token"]. They were guaranteed US$950 per month including tips. A fly in the ointment is that if you claim you made less than the minimum you would probably never be offered another contract.

 

The individual who shared their contract was a former employee [they left to be ashore with their family, they were not bad-mouthing their former employer] who said that in a bad month they made about $700 [but not claiming their "guaranteed minimum" since they wished to remain employed] and in a great month they made $2800, averaging about $1700.

 

I make no claim to be an expert on Maltese minimum wage versus tip laws, but Celebrity reflagged their ships from Bahamas to Malta about 2008, and I'm sure they were well aware how this was going to affect their bottom line. $950 per month would meet the Maltese 680 Euro per month minimum quoted above. Can you document your assertion that Malta requires the employer to pay a minimum of 680 Euros?

 

Bottom line as I see it [and I could be proved wrong]: the cruise company pays them a token amount and almost all of their income is from tips.

 

Thom

 

The only thing I question about what you wrote, based on speaking with friends who work for both Celebrity and Royal that the crew member is responsible for paying their way to the ship, but the cruise line will pay their way home if they complete their contract. Perhaps this is how they are doing things now? Not sure how long ago you saw that contract.

[Suzy Smith]

I saw a Royal Caribbean Cruise Ltd [Celebrity is part of RCCL (as is RCI, etc)]

Can you document your assertion that Malta requires the employer to pay a minimum of 680 Euros?Thom

 

You will see that my original posting was a query - I asked whether Celebrity have to pay Malta minimum wage as the ships are registered in Malta. If they are subject to Maltese law then then the employer will have to pay the Maltese minimum wage. Employment laws in Europe do not take tips into account as people here do not routinely tip in the way that they do in the US.

 

However it seems none of us actually knows which jurisdiction the ships come under and we are all just guessing.

[k9x8]

You will see that my original posting was a query - I asked whether Celebrity have to pay Malta minimum wage as the ships are registered in Malta. If they are subject to Maltese law then then the employer will have to pay the Maltese minimum wage. Employment laws in Europe do not take tips into account as people here do not routinely tip in the way that they do in the US.

 

However it seems none of us actually knows which jurisdiction the ships come under and we are all just guessing.

 

Yes, we are guessing. Now I discover that RCI, the parent company of X, is incorporated in Liberia. Then there's the complexities of Maritime Law.

 

Most of what I've discovered today is that employees are paid $900 and up. One source cited $30 a month.

 

Until someone who has the facts informs us, it's speculation. Meanwhile, I'll continue tipping, and tipping well, because IMO, minimum wage hovers right above "token."

 

By the way, no wealth here; I'm solid middle-class.

[smeyer418]

Cruise lines register their ships in countries called "flags of Convenience". It basically allows them to do whatever they want as long as they pay the annual fee to the country where the ship was flagged. There is actually an Union that all these employees belong to which has minimums against the draw(that is the $900 listed above). Most employees make more than this. Many cruise lines also require the employees come through a manning company which also gets its share of the employees remuneration.

The "salary" of these employees is not included in the cruise fare you currently pay. If the cruise lines were to include it, it would cost you more any way for various reasons.

Whether the employee has to pool or has to do what they traditionally were required(called tipping out to those who provided them service- i.e. for the food service staff they tip out the line cooks and dishwashers and some others for the room service staff they tip out the laundry and supply room staff). It varies by cruise line but also the asst head housekeeper and head waiter or asst maitre d are also tipped out.

I am also unclear whether the cost of getting to and from the ship is covered I have been told both ways...and it may be for the employees under longer contracts

[hawkers2008]

I get the point about the way these guys are remunerated.

 

I really don't like the auto-tip at all. I don't object to tipping for good service, I don't like the idea of tipping in advance in the hope of getting good service. Doing it in arrears and by cash you can pay on performance.

 

I get that this potentially cuts out a range of staff who deserve to be fairly paid for the work that they do but I don't really agree that this is my problem.

[sarahc78]

Unfortunately while you might think this "fixes" the system, and I'm sure the attendants are very gracious and thankful for it, it does not change anything. No matter what you call it they must turn in any cash tips up to the amount of the base recommend tips, if the base tips haven't already been charged or prepaid. They only get to keep the excess greater than the base amount. They then receive their share of the tip pool like all their other peers on the ship.

Interesting. That is not what our room attendant, waiter, and several bar tenders told us on our last sailing. We brought extra $ and tipped at random times through out the cruise, we were told they were allowed to keep that $ and it would not go into a pool. :confused:

[jackdiamond]

It is quite simplistic, there are certain folks who engage in euphemisms to justify their stiffing of the staff.

[odisalbert]

Typically how much addtional cash should be alloted for tips (above the automatic) during a 7 day cruise (staying in a Sky Suite)? Select dining and probably more than average room service.

[4774Papa]

Typically how much addtional cash should be alloted for tips (above the automatic) during a 7 day cruise (staying in a Sky Suite)? Select dining and probably more than average room service.

That would depend entirely on how satisfied you are with the service. I probably tipped an additional $50 for a two week cruise, to the people that gave me special service. Also, I might add an additional dollar tip when ordering drinks, where the waiter (waitress) continued to exceed my expectations.

 

Tipping tour guides or bus drivers on excursions is another matter.

[smeyer418]

I get the point about the way these guys are remunerated.

 

I really don't like the auto-tip at all. I don't object to tipping for good service, I don't like the idea of tipping in advance in the hope of getting good service. Doing it in arrears and by cash you can pay on performance.

 

I get that this potentially cuts out a range of staff who deserve to be fairly paid for the work that they do but I don't really agree that this is my problem.

 

I don't really disagree but if it was in the fare you are doing the same thing anyway. The upscale lines with no tipping where you pay it in the fare now really don't have a problem with service...even though its already included in the fare.

 

 

Just remember that a fair number of people who say they just want to leave cash actually leave less or nothing when they have no service related complaint...and the same $10 w/o tax and tip hamburger in AAustralia costs $17.00

[TravelerThom]

Interesting. That is not what our room attendant, waiter, and several bar tenders told us on our last sailing. We brought extra $ and tipped at random times through out the cruise, we were told they were allowed to keep that $ and it would not go into a pool. :confused:

Just to understand what your frame of reference is. Had you removed your auto tips? I think everyone agrees that if auto tips are in place, extra cash gratuities belong to the person they are given to. The confusion exists on what the status of direct tips if you have removed auto tips. I THINK then the tips go into the pool, but I personally am NOT claiming to know that. Bar Staff are not included in auto tips, so I think they do get to keep all direct tips [unless the bar waiters and bar tenders set up their own local pool, which they often do].

 

Addressing some other statements, I would not say that waiters, etc are paid $900, but they are guaranteed that amount BUT that is semantics, and IMO not worth losing any sleep over.

 

I THINK that these employees get a ticket from the cruise port closest to their home to the ship a the beginning of their contract, but that may have changed. Employees get a ticket home IF they successfully complete their contract; if they leave early (through their own choice, or by separation for cause by the company) they are on their own to get home.

 

The parent Corporation is Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd [RCCL, stock symbol RCL]. RCCL owns a number of cruise lines:

Royal Caribbean International [RCI]

Celebrity Cruises [sometimes referred to as X (Chi)]

Pullmantur

Azamara Club Cruises and

CDF Croisieres de France

and has a 50% joint venture ownership of TUI Cruises

 

My bottom line is that almost without exceptions I have found the ship staff that serve me to be between Very good and outstanding. I have no problem compensating them appropriately. Now if only the cruise lines would help us fully understand what is appropriate.

 

happy cruise to all

Thom

[celebbook]

I went on a solo 7-night Caribbean Eclipse cruise in January. My gratuities were prepaid, but I wanted to add extra for the dining room staff and stateroom attendants. Service was competent and pleasant, they didn't go overboard - excuse the term - but I wanted to say thank you. (I did get a towel animal though!) And I would have felt guilty walking off without doing something, even though I prepaid. I'm not used to getting waited on like that.

 

Stateroom attendant got $ 5 tip when I ordered room service and even though I had a beverage package I tipped $ 5 each time in Cafe Al Bacio. (Those two girls were in there 14 hours a day at least. Yikes!)

 

On the last evening of the cruise I wasn't sure how much to give, so just went with gut feeling - got envelopes from the desk and cash from the Casino ATM (ouch!) and gave the stateroom attendant and his assistant each $ 40, and the waiter and his assistant in the main dining room each $ 40, and the wine steward $ 20. (He got generous extra tips already on the few glasses of wine I ordered.)

 

Wasn't sure if that was a lot or a little in the general scheme of things. When I got back to my room that night, I found a pile of the little chocolates on my pillow, not my usual two - so I figured that might be a clue the stateroom guys were happy... ?? Maybe I got it right, then!

 

I'm shocked to hear how little their base compensation probably is, and glad I tipped extra, then.

[Painter]

Reply by the original poster...

I think most of you went off track with your answers.

 

I wasn't asking how much to tip and why.

Yes... I know the staff are poorly paid.

I always pay much more then required and also treat the staff like family (not like some lower class servant...I worked in the hospitality industry too)

I do like to see that the person I am rewarding is the one getting the benefit.

 

I DO NOT like tipping for bad service!

That would be silly and would not encourage good service for the next customer.

 

So...looks like I can do it my way and you can do yours.

 

Everyone is happy.

[Highlander1]

Well if your cabin attendant wants to keep his/her job, he/she will have to turn that cash in to be split with all the staff you have stiffed by taking your tips off. So you may tell yourself you're doing a good thing and are being generous, but in reality, you're not.

 

 

 

Bullseye!!!

 

Leave the tips in place and give those you feel special about the extra. Cruise lines and staff go through the paces trying to be fair to everyone on the staff, you tossing away their program and agreement makes equity amongst the troops that much tougher.

[yogimax]

 

I DO NOT like tipping for bad service!

 

 

Seriously, I have NEVER received "bad" service on any of our cruises. (We are D+ on RCCL). Average service, yes, but I have never considered removing a tip, with one exception. We had a head waiter who was non-existent for seven nights.

 

In any case, we have been served by hundreds of employees and only had one who was "bad."

 

So, I am compelled to ask... what is your definition of "bad service?" Could it be that your standards are considerably higher than the norm?

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

Reply by the original poster...

I think most of you went off track with your answers.

 

I wasn't asking how much to tip and why.

Yes... I know the staff are poorly paid.

I always pay much more then required and also treat the staff like family (not like some lower class servant...I worked in the hospitality industry too)

I do like to see that the person I am rewarding is the one getting the benefit.

 

I DO NOT like tipping for bad service!

That would be silly and would not encourage good service for the next customer.

 

So...looks like I can do it my way and you can do yours.

 

Everyone is happy.

 

I'm sorry, but it is you who are missing the point. If you take the autotips off your account, your stateroom attendant and anyone else you give cash to will be required to turn that cash in so that it may be shared with other service personnel on the ship. So you may be telling yourself that the one you are "rewarding" is the one who is getting the benefit, but that doesn't happen to be true.

 

No one is saying that you should like this system. However, it is the system used on ships. So if you really want to reward your cabin attendant or whoever, you will follow the system. Leave the autotips in place and tip extra in cash as you wish.

 

And I seriously doubt that if you do it your way, everyone is happy as you claim. If I were your hapless cabin attendant, I wouldn't be.

[brfan]

I get the point about the way these guys are remunerated.

 

I really don't like the auto-tip at all. I don't object to tipping for good service, I don't like the idea of tipping in advance in the hope of getting good service. Doing it in arrears and by cash you can pay on performance.

 

I get that this potentially cuts out a range of staff who deserve to be fairly paid for the work that they do but I don't really agree that this is my problem.

 

I don't understand what you mean by tipping in advance? Your credit card is not charged with the tips until the last night onboard and the crew does not get the money until you are off the ship. So there is no tipping in advance, unless you prepaid the tips with your final payment.

 

If you have a service issue, then speak with a supervisor to get it fixed. The problem can't be fixed if they don't know there is a problem.