Is No Smoking on the Balconies Coming?

[mjldvlks]

[quote name='Kellie Poodle']If the demographic is, indeed 80% non-smokers to 20% smokers, why are they [B]currently [/B]antagonizing 80% of their customers by permitting smoking on balconies? . . .[/quote]

As a non-smoker who has never been particularly bothered by smoke on a ship [except in the Casino which I can easily avoid], I don't feel like I really have a dog in this fight -- I am fairly content with the rules as they are. But the answer to your specific question is that they [RCI] are doing their best [as they see it] to get as many total customers drawing from from BOTH groups. That requires them to consider many questions, such as: how many smokers [and non-smoking SOs] they will lose by further restrictions compared to how many non-smokers they may gain and how many smokers will cruise anyway. Obviously it is a balancing act -- but I am convinced that giving a whole side of the ship to smokers will actually make things worse. Even if it is only a portion of one side, I suspect someone will consider it "prime" real estate and be more upset than they are now. Unless and until they ban smoking on all balconies [and smokers don't hate me for saying this, it is only a prediction, but I believe they will eventually] I think the current system is probably the best balance. But I never took marketing so what do I know?

[Cigar King]

Isn't this the problem they have on X?

[Cigar King]

[quote name='Galatz']How could a smoking ban ever be enforced? Unless they put cameras on each individual balcony its impossible to enforce. By the time someone complained and a staff person could get there, they are done smoking. It will just encourage people to throw their butts into the ocean.[/quote]

I should have quoted this when I replied...earlier. This is the same problem they have on X.

[mjldvlks]

[quote name='Cigar King']Isn't this the problem they have on X?[/quote]
If that is the case, then smokers who dismiss non-smokers with the "go cruise X if you don't like smoking" nugget are being more than a tad disingenuous, aren't they?

[cellyml12]

[B]These threads are hilarious. I'm a smoker & even though they recently changed their policy, we chose Princess. While it would be nice to smoke on our balcony, we can live with the policy. As far as other cruise lines following suit, well they may be getting more business from Princess & Celebrity smokers, so there may be no need to change it. As a smoker I chose to cruise with a line with strict policies, as a non smoker you can also choose a different line. No one is forcing you to sail on a ship, in a balcony room, where smoking is allowed. So to complain about smokers following the rules of the ship is ridiculous.

If you have that many health problems related to cigarette smoke, then your health is obviously not too important to you or you'd choose a different cruise line, instead of whining about what you can't change. If it was a health issue for me, I sure wouldn't be sailing with a line that has a lax smoking policy. That would be absurd.

I live in the SF Bay Area where smoking policies are VERY strict. The non smokers out here are brutal towards smokers. They complain about it as they walk by one of the several refineries we have in the area, while all the smoke puffs out. They complain while they sit on the freeway during commute, as all the car fumes blow in the windows. I used to sympathize with non smokers, but not so much anymore. They use it as just another thing to complain about.

Bottom line is that you have a choice with who you cruise. So either book your cruise & quit complaining, or book with Celebrity or Princess, so you can find something else to complain about. [/B]

[jconeil]

We sail on many X ships. Never had a smoking issue at all. Have read that some people have tho and then contacted guest relations who then do put a stop to it. We just booked our first Princess cruise in a number of years, as we just had gotten tired of the balcony smoking ruining our enjoyment of our balcony. I would be interested in how this new policy has affected Princess' bottom line. I expect more people like us are now considering them when we are spending our cruise money. I would like to sail RCI since they have some itineraries we would enjoy that are not offered by X or Princess. We did a wonderful b2b cruise in SoPac/NZ in Jan. on the Radiance. We had a cabin that had only one side with an adjacent cabin. We were really concerned about that trip because of the smoking issue, but loved the itinerary so much we took the plunge. Well, as luck would have it, we enjoyed our balcony frequently because there were no smokers around us either cruise! We do consider that a stroke of good luck tho. Sorry RCI, but I doubt we will take that risk again.

[bookbob]

[quote name='Finbar127'][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Funny that you should ask. I was talking to Adam Goldstein this morning. He said a fleet wide smoking ban goes into effect tomorrow. Smoking will not be permitted anywhere, anytime on any RCI ship.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]
If this is true (hopefully) I would just love it.:)

[Kellie Poodle]

[quote name='mjldvlks']If that is the case, then smokers who dismiss non-smokers with the "go cruise X if you don't like smoking" nugget are being more than a tad disingenuous, aren't they?[/quote]


It is not the case and X is deadly serious about enforcement.

[debshomespun]

I am a non-smoker too, and I would like to see there being "no smoking" on the balconies and cabins. It is a hazard. A cigarette is what started the horrible fire on the Princess Star several years ago. I know this is a very subjective subject, but this is how I feel. A cigarette butt can be very dangerous to many people, besides the person doing the smoking and discarding the butt.

[Kellie Poodle]

The price of a balcony cabin on my next cruise is double that of an outside cabin. I'm in the outside cabin so I don't have to worry about smoke on the balcony. Even with a hefty Crown & Anchor discount, I choose an outside cabin to avoid risking my money for nothing.

If RCI is reading this, you've lost revenue.

As for non-smokers whining, I might inform you that I fought really hard to survive cancer and am finally "cancer-free" and I'll be damned if I'll go through that again so smokers can blow their poison in my air.

I'll avoid balconies and casinos as usual on RCI.

[smoosh21]

I still wonder why they haven't banned it, only from a safety perspective. It only takes one smoker to flick a still smoldering butt over the side of the ship, to have it come back and set something on fire. From an insurance viewpoint, I would think that having an official ban on smoking would help to reduce premiums.

[Tranquil Waters]

[quote name='Kellie Poodle']The price of a balcony cabin on my next cruise is double that of an outside cabin. I'm in the outside cabin so I don't have to worry about smoke on the balcony. Even with a hefty Crown & Anchor discount, I choose an outside cabin to avoid risking my money for nothing.

If RCI is reading this, you've lost revenue.

As for non-smokers whining, I might inform you that I fought really hard to survive cancer and am finally "cancer-free" and I'll be damned if I'll go through that again so smokers can blow their poison in my air.

I'll avoid balconies and casinos as usual on RCI.[/QUOTE]

I always thought the complaints about next door smokers were a bit extreme given a moving ship, etc. Then it happened to us. :o:(

I don't think our balcony neighbors ever left their cabin because EVERY time we tried to go out one of the two - if not both - were out there puffing like chimneys. Our balcony smelled awful the entire week.

That was it for balconies on Royal. Will get balconies on X. But that's it. I just booked a cruise for January on Royal because I am traveling with friends who want to get their Diamond status. I booked a PR cabin. So I know RC's policy is costing them $$ with me.

[Tranquil Waters]

[quote name='smoosh21']I still wonder why they haven't banned it, only from a safety perspective. It only takes one smoker to flick a still smoldering butt over the side of the ship, to have it come back and set something on fire. From an insurance viewpoint, I would think that having an official ban on smoking would help to reduce premiums.[/QUOTE]

RC is more concerned with those dangerous irons than the live fire at the end of smoking materials.... :D. But banning irons increases laundry revenue. Banning smoking decreases revenue from smokers who might cruise elsewhere. RC will ban smoking just as soon as the other mainstream cruise lines do the same.

[LonW]

[quote name='coordinator23']There is a reason why we don't cruise on Princess anymore (which is a fantastic cruise line, btw). won't cruise X or Azumara(came close). My husband smokes. When smoking isn't allowed on the balconies anymore, we will either switch lines (try Carnival, I guess) or take land vacations. He may smoke 4 cigarettes a day out there - Am, before lunch, before dinner, and before bed.
I get tired of the self-rightous dribble by some people. I'd like to transport them back 20-30 years when all areas were smoking - malls, supermarkets, restaurants, etc. Then they would realize that when most of these smokers began to smoke, it was very acceptable. I was the odd one out who didn't smoke. Have a little empathy for people who smoked before it was considered harmful (and yes, some doctors told their patients to smoke to keep their weight down). You won't curl up and die if you get a wiff of smoke. Also something else to ponder, in Illinois $38 of every carton goes towards taxes. If he is ever able to quit (and he has tried and tried), guess who is going to have to make up for the loss of revenu - taxes will go up for everyone. The vast majority of the ship is smoke free.[/quote]

While we are at it, if they ban smoking how about banning drinking, it kills and I hate being around a bunch of stinky loud drunks.:D How about fatty foods? Obesity is a major problem in the USA lets just ban buffets and getting seconds at dinner. [B]Where do you draw the line.[/B] And yes you being fat does effect me, it causes me to pay more for health insurance. Buy the way I smoke a pipe and do not like the smell of cigarette's.

[ahecht]

[quote name='mjldvlks']
Why should an entire side of the ship be devoted to a demographic that only comprises about 20% of the potential customers?[/QUOTE]

Why should both sides be devoted to a demographic that only comprises about 20% of the potential customers?

The outspoken people who insist that their neighbors' smoke doesn't bother them will obviously not have a problem booking on the "smoking permitted" side.

It's all about how they present it. If they call them "smoking" and "non-smoking" cabins, they will have a problem. If, instead, they put a note in the balcony cabin description that says "Smoking is permitted only on port-facing verandas", I don't think they'd drive anyone away that would currently be fine booking a balcony under today's policies.

If they want to go further, they could create new cabin categories and include in the category description "Smoking is permitted only on the veranda in D1P rooms" or "Smoking is not permitted on the veranda in D1S rooms". They could even charge more for the non-smoking side if there is sufficient demand.

[LonW]

[quote name='ncb106']I agree with You 100 percent[/quote]

Me to!:D

[LonW]

[quote name='DebJ14']We hope it is coming soon on RCI. I just hate it when our time on the balcony is ruined by a neighbor who smokes.
When we sail Carnival we take a spa cabin just because they prohibit smoking on the balcony in those categories. It is the only time we can be assured that we will have 100% use of the balcony and can leave the door open without our cabin filling with second hand smoke.[/quote]

I have to point out it is against the rules to leave your balcony door open. It screws up the air conditioning system and air flow on the ship. It will also feed a fire if one breaks out.:eek:

[LonW]

[quote name='boss neil']I am not a smoker..I have not smoked for 30 years,BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS FAIR FOR A SMALL LOUD SPEAKING GROUP OF PEOPLE TO TO DICTATE A POLICY FOR OTHERS.

There is no way that the smoke from other people's balcony, ON A MOVING SHIP, can BOTHER ANY ONE. As a past post said " just enjoy your cruise and let others enjoy theirs.

Neil[/quote]

I agree with you 100%.:p

[ahecht]

Lon, there is no need for you to reply three times in a row. Many rational people are severely bothered by smoke from neighboring balconies, and non-smokers, far from being a small group, actually outnumber smokers 4 to 1.

[jbarn3]

[quote name='Kellie Poodle']If RCI is reading this, you've lost revenue.[/QUOTE]
I doubt it; you booked a cabin they needed to sell, and passed up a discount to do it. I'm sure someone else will book the balcony you didn't.

[Finbar127]

I still wonder why they haven't banned it, only from a safety perspective. It only takes one smoker to flick a still smoldering butt over the side of the ship, to have it come back and set something on fire. From an insurance viewpoint, I would think that having an official ban on smoking would help to reduce premiums.

 

I'm sure they would like to ban it for this very reason but the number crunchers are telling corporate that they will make more money by maintaining the status quo. Let's face it, RCI is all about making money. Someone else on this thread said it nicely; if RCI determined they would make more money by banning balcony smoking they would ban it in a New York minute. So instead of whining like children make you feelings known by spending your dollars elsewhere. That is the only thing RCI will respond to.

[Beachin2]

RCI is a diverse corporation with several distinct brands (cruise lines). Most of their brands are very smoking restrictive. RCCL not as much. All the revenue from all of their brands feed the central corporate RCI cash monster.

 

If the 20% demographics number discussed is accurate - why drive that 20% of the market (who consistently buy the higher priced balconies) from RCI to another corporation? For perspective - that's 1,200 folks on a 6,000 passenger ship (on average using those demographics numbers). Double occupancy - that's 600 cabins.

 

From strictly a revenue perspective - that makes NO business sense at all considering that their other brands satisfy the tightened smoking market need.

 

Have you seen the stock price lately? The last thing they (RCI) can afford is to give up any market share or revenue stream.

 

If they do - your next "issue" will be a huge increase in the nickel & diming aboard to make up that revenue.

 

This is a business decision - pure and simple. You don't drive away 100's to satisfy a few - especially when you have offered viable options to the few.

 

Never forget, wether you like it or not - it's a business - it's all about revenue, the bottom line and market share. That's why cruising is actually cheaper than it was years ago.

[Finbar127]

RCI is a diverse corporation with several distinct brands (cruise lines). Most of their brands are very smoking restrictive. RCCL not as much. All the revenue from all of their brands feed the central corporate RCI cash monster.

 

I agree with what you wrote but you have it backwards. RCCL is the parent company of RCI. Not trying to be snarky, just keeping the record straight.

[janabm81]

I'll admit it...I'm a smoker and I like my balcony when on a cruise ship. No, I'm not one of those chain smokers that sit on the balcony all day and puff away but I do enjoy the occasional cig on the balcony in the morning and before I go to bed and as long as it's "legal" on Royal ships I will continue to book with them. The moment the "ban" it though; I, my husband, my 3 kids, my mother, my 4 brothers and their wives, my 8 nieces and nephews, my aunt & uncle, my mother & father-in-law, and my grandmother will all find a new cruise line to sail on. That's 14 cabins & mucho $$$$ that Royal will no longer get from us and guess what...me and one of my brothers are the only smokers in the whole group.

Now I know you're thinking...well they can book those 14 cabins just fine but I know I'm not the exception to the rule...If one smoker in a family group won't book with them due to constrictions neither will the rest of their group. That's a lot of people no longer using Royal and a lot of $$$ going to another cruise line with more relaxed rules.

[hubofhockey]

RCI is a diverse corporation with several distinct brands (cruise lines). Most of their brands are very smoking restrictive. RCCL not as much. All the revenue from all of their brands feed the central corporate RCI cash monster.

 

If the 20% demographics number discussed is accurate - why drive that 20% of the market (who consistently buy the higher priced balconies) from RCI to another corporation? For perspective - that's 1,200 folks on a 6,000 passenger ship (on average using those demographics numbers). Double occupancy - that's 600 cabins.

 

From strictly a revenue perspective - that makes NO business sense at all considering that their other brands satisfy the tightened smoking market need.

 

Have you seen the stock price lately? The last thing they (RCI) can afford is to give up any market share or revenue stream.

 

If they do - your next "issue" will be a huge increase in the nickel & diming aboard to make up that revenue.

 

This is a business decision - pure and simple. You don't drive away 100's to satisfy a few - especially when you have offered viable options to the few.

 

Never forget, wether you like it or not - it's a business - it's all about revenue, the bottom line and market share. That's why cruising is actually cheaper than it was years ago.

 

Well, you make two pretty big assumptions here.

 

(1) That the corporation will actually lose money by making cabins and balconies smoke free. You are assuming that 100% of smokers will "abandon ship". That hasn't happened on Princess. They just go somewhere else to smoke where it is permitted. Ships are still going out full and prices haven't dropped. You are also assuming that having smoke free balconies won't attract new passengers. The dominant cruise corporation in terms of passengers carried is not Royal Caribbean. It's all of the Carnival brands (Carnival, Princess, HAL are the largest mass market lines). That's a large amount of cruise passengers who might try Royal Caribbean if it offered smoke free balconies. Of the lines that cater predominately to families (NCL, Carnival, and RCI), they would clearly be offering something the others do not.

 

(2) Smokers buy a disproportionate amount of the higher priced balcony cabins. Are you suggesting that the universe of smokers are the ones buying suites, junior suites, and other more expensive balcony rooms and non-smokers are the cheap ones? Lastly, trying to satisfy the smoking market maybe a poor long term strategy because the trend is going in the other direction. If you are suggesting that more smokers just get balconies, period. Well, maybe that's because non-smokers don't want to invest their money on a balcony that could be filled with smoke from a neighbor. I guess I'm not buying that argument.

 

I remember over a year ago, those wanting to maintain Princess' policy of maintaining smoking on balconies were making similar arguments to what we see here. Of course, Princess might have blinked as the result of losing passengers to Celebrity and their very restrictive smoking policies and their nicer ships (I do note that the new Royal Princess definitely is closer to a Solstice Class ship than the Grand Class ships are).

 

Smoking policies will only get more restrictive. They won't get less restrictive. It's all a matter of time.