Shabbat/Jewish Sabbath Questions

[avazah]

So it is my understanding that RCI provides electric tealight candles, challah, and wine during the 'sabbath services' on Friday nights on all of their cruises, at least based on all of the threads I read via the search function. (So please don't tell me to search!) It seems like, at some point, there will be a sign up for 'sabbath services' on the cruise compass and you sign up, then go on friday evening. So far so good! I just have a few questions so we can work out logistics.

 

If it matters, we're cruising on Independence of the Seas in January(Western Caribbean).

 

When are the candles given out? To make use of them, we would need to make a blessing on them BEFORE sunset.

 

Is the wine certified kosher? Is it mevushal as well? I understand that you can buy Barkan(a kosher Israeli wine) on board -- is this what is offered?

 

Is the challah certified kosher, or is it baked by RCI?

 

We are Orthodox Jews, so we probably won't be able to take advantage of the prayer service, unless there are many other Orthodox Jews on board(it's just a strictness thing in regards to the prayer service -- no biggie). I understand that the challah and wine is given after the prayer service. Would we still be able to take advantage of it? Or would we be able to request challah and wine independently of the service?

 

I am sure we are not the only orthodox jews to ever take a cruise that takes place over shabbat with RCI, so I am sure we won't be the first to make such requests. I would just appreciate any advice anyone has, so I can make the necessary arrangements to ensure we have what we need.

 

Thanks everyone! You've all been so helpful with all my random questions in planning this cruise :)

[mskaufman]

So it is my understanding that RCI provides electric tealight candles, challah, and wine during the 'sabbath services' on Friday nights on all of their cruises, at least based on all of the threads I read via the search function. (So please don't tell me to search!) It seems like, at some point, there will be a sign up for 'sabbath services' on the cruise compass and you sign up, then go on friday evening. So far so good! I just have a few questions so we can work out logistics.

 

If it matters, we're cruising on Independence of the Seas in January(Western Caribbean).

 

When are the candles given out? To make use of them, we would need to make a blessing on them BEFORE sunset.

 

Is the wine certified kosher? Is it mevushal as well? I understand that you can buy Barkan(a kosher Israeli wine) on board -- is this what is offered?

 

Is the challah certified kosher, or is it baked by RCI?

 

We are Orthodox Jews, so we probably won't be able to take advantage of the prayer service, unless there are many other Orthodox Jews on board(it's just a strictness thing in regards to the prayer service -- no biggie). I understand that the challah and wine is given after the prayer service. Would we still be able to take advantage of it? Or would we be able to request challah and wine independently of the service?

 

I am sure we are not the only orthodox jews to ever take a cruise that takes place over shabbat with RCI, so I am sure we won't be the first to make such requests. I would just appreciate any advice anyone has, so I can make the necessary arrangements to ensure we have what we need.

 

Thanks everyone! You've all been so helpful with all my random questions in planning this cruise :)

 

Not sure it's the same on every boat but I will give you my best shot.

 

There was not a signup for services, it was just walk in. The most that have ever walked in on a cruise I was on were about 20 people. The service tends to be DIY. While they do provide books the group picks a leader. I have never been at a ship service that can be considered Orthodox.

 

The wine was always fine. Generally Man. Concord Grape.

 

I don't remember the Challah being wrapped so I assume (but can't be certain) that it was baked on board.

 

I have always cruised in the summer so sunset timing has never been a problem.

 

Hope that this starts to answer your questions.

 

Shabbat Shalom

[gerif]

I'd check with the Special Needs department where you would have ordered your frozen meals to see about frozen challah. Wine I'm not so sure about. Perhaps there is a way for them to have kosher wine available for you to purchase if you ask in advance but I wouldn't count on it.

 

Can't remember ever being asked for my religion when booking a cruise but they might be able to tell you how many have ordered kosher meals. You might also check your roll call.

[Leslie K]

I can't answer kashruth questions but can say that I have always seen a Shabbat service sign up noted in the daily compass. Dont know what they do w the list but it exists somewhere. We traveled once when a Ranbi was traveling & that service was led by the Rabbi. Would that meet your requirements I can't answer. I assume like anytime you travel you have your way of meeting your observance level as do all the Orthodox people I know. Try communicating w their special needs department ahead of your cruise like when you arrange kosher meals.

[NorbertsNiece]

I've not been aware of candles being given out on any cruise I've been on. On my last cruise Shabbat service could have been held in the prayer room however I was the only one to show. There was a set of candles, no challah, some wine and glasses laid out ready. Another couple showed up but I think were just passers by. I went to enquire as to whether challah would be arriving but the only crew member I could locate nearby didn't have a clue what I was talking about. As no others showed I left. :(

[bearchele2]

the last time I attended a service it was passenger lead and more toward the reformed end. As far as the challah, it was just bread, not real challah and the wine was not kosher. You should talk to the special needs department to request what you might need. If they are getting you kosher food then there shouldn't be a problem getting you wine and challah. Also, they didn't give candles. they did have them at the service. You may want to get traveling candles to use.

[Miss Vickie]

On any ship we've sailed, there was a sign up and the service was passenger-led, and not at all Orthodox. There was challah, unwrapped and cut, and the wine was Man. concord grape, or tasted like it. You will definitely want to bring your own electric tea lights, they don't give them to you on board.

 

Just out of curiousity, how do you plan on going in and out of your cabin on Shabbat? The door locks are electronic, activated by your key card. And going outside on any of the decks will require activating the electric eye for the door.

[avazah]

For the record, we know the service won't be orthodox and are okay with that. That part wasn't my concern :)

 

Thanks for the replies everyone! It sounds like we should play it on the safe side and bring our own tealights and a small bottle of kosher grape juice. As for challah, I'll email the special needs department, but we aren't going with solely the pre-packaged frozen meals(which I am nervous to mention because I've seen some people get a little nasty in other threads about how something "isn't actually kosher" -- just trust us that we are taking care of our needs and are 110% aware of any issue you are probably wishing to raise!), so we will see if they can provide. There is already kosher wine offered to be purchased on board, apparently, but I am not willing to pay $42 for a bottle of $10 wine when neither of us are big wine drinkers(and a bottle of grape juice does the trick anyway!).

 

As for the electric locks -- what we've done in the past is have someone, like a staff member, open the door for us. We will bring it up with them before Shabbat, and in the past, we don't even have to ask during Shabbat -- they see us and already know! As for automatic doors, what most orthodox jews that I know do is kind of linger around until someone else is going through the door, then 'follow' them through. I am sure others would criticize this practice, but we do the best we can with what we have :)

[SelfCheckoutGuy]

I have a question that is somewhat related. My wife and I are Seventh-day Adventists, so we observe Sabbath from Friday Sundown until Saturday Sundown. We are excited at the possibility of some type of service being offered Saturday "Sabbath" morning. Outside of the Sabbath, I am unfamiliar with Jewish practices. What should a guest be aware of or not do as to not offend anyone attending.

[avazah]

I have a question that is somewhat related. My wife and I are Seventh-day Adventists, so we observe Sabbath from Friday Sundown until Saturday Sundown. We are excited at the possibility of some type of service being offered Saturday "Sabbath" morning. Outside of the Sabbath, I am unfamiliar with Jewish practices. What should a guest be aware of or not do as to not offend anyone attending.

 

I can't speak to exactly how the service would be, as I clearly haven't been involved, but in general... Generally men cover their heads with a yarmulke/kippa during services, even for non-Jewish guests. Other than that, I doubt you would offend anyone unless you attempted to proselytize. :P In my experiences, people are generally very willing to help make sure you are on the right page and explaining what is going on, as long as they know themselves. :)

 

Not sure if I can post the actual link, but if you google 'jew faq' the first result is a great website explaining all things Jewish!

[mskaufman]

I have never seen a Saturday morning service offered.

 

I think you have it figured out and to be safe bring your own lights and grape juice. Based on the responses here I would conclude that RCI's approach to this is inconsistent and varies from ship to ship.

[Dayenu]

I have a question that is somewhat related. My wife and I are Seventh-day Adventists, so we observe Sabbath from Friday Sundown until Saturday Sundown. We are excited at the possibility of some type of service being offered Saturday "Sabbath" morning. Outside of the Sabbath, I am unfamiliar with Jewish practices. What should a guest be aware of or not do as to not offend anyone attending.

 

Usually the prayers on the ship are on Friday at sundown. Are you sure there will be a service on the ship on Saturday?

 

Avazah: on ships all candles on the tables are electric, open flames are not allowed, so one of them will be "offered" to you for Shabbat blessings. If you need them before the usual dinner time, you will have to request in advance. To be on the safe side, I'd bring all from home.

[Gatrcruzer]

Hi avazah - hope you have a great cruise! One thing you may want to check into: RCI does not usually allow you to bring beverages (alcoholic or otherwise) onboard. My guess is that they would be willing to make an exception for you because it is for a religious reason, but you might want to get some verification from them in writing, so that you can take it with you in the event that they give you problems at security as you are boarding the ship. My understanding is that they are most concerned about people bringing alcohol onboard, and that the policy is applied inconsistently (some people report bringing bottled water, etc. onboard), but it would be best to have it all arranged in advance so that you don't have any bad surprises at the port.

 

Good luck with sorting everything out, and hope all goes smoothly for you.

[Galatz]

For the record, we know the service won't be orthodox and are okay with that. That part wasn't my concern :)

 

Thanks for the replies everyone! It sounds like we should play it on the safe side and bring our own tealights and a small bottle of kosher grape juice. As for challah, I'll email the special needs department, but we aren't going with solely the pre-packaged frozen meals(which I am nervous to mention because I've seen some people get a little nasty in other threads about how something "isn't actually kosher" -- just trust us that we are taking care of our needs and are 110% aware of any issue you are probably wishing to raise!), so we will see if they can provide. There is already kosher wine offered to be purchased on board, apparently, but I am not willing to pay $42 for a bottle of $10 wine when neither of us are big wine drinkers(and a bottle of grape juice does the trick anyway!).

 

As for the electric locks -- what we've done in the past is have someone, like a staff member, open the door for us. We will bring it up with them before Shabbat, and in the past, we don't even have to ask during Shabbat -- they see us and already know! As for automatic doors, what most orthodox jews that I know do is kind of linger around until someone else is going through the door, then 'follow' them through. I am sure others would criticize this practice, but we do the best we can with what we have :)

 

I have never actually utilized their stuff I usually just bring my own.

 

Same thing as davening, I do that myself, so no clue about their Minyan (didnt even know they had one actually). Timing for candle lighting isnt too bad. You can probably ask your Rav but most say use the zman of the port, its your best guess. I always try and start a bit early and end a bit late. I typically hold 42 minutes for havdallah, so instead I do 60 to be safe. Just check the route so your husband knows which way Mizrach is.

 

Before Shabbos I get beer so I can have it for kiddush and havdallah. Otherwise since they don't allow you to bring liquid on board such as alcohol, I recommend just putting it into a mouth wash bottle. They might make an exception but is it worth the time being questioned?

 

They don't allow flames but I keep a tiny Havdallah candle and Tea Lights in my bag anyway. Just in case I take them out of the metal and put it into a glass casing, don't want it taken away if they ask. Thats never been an issue. Just be careful where you set them up.

 

For Challah I just buy something shelf stable first and let that sit in the room until Shabbos. You can also ask to see packages for the bread they have in the kitchen. None is actually made on board, and normally all bread, including bagels are in a bag with a legit hechsher.

 

My trick instead of the asking someone for the door is to just cover where the door closes with duct tape before shabbos. It stops the door from catching. Then I put out the do no disturb sign. That way no one comes in, but I can get in and out as I please. When in the room just latch it.

 

I do the same thing for the automatic doors. Just wait. Taking the stairs really gives a great work out!

 

Any other questions feel free to ask!

[avazah]

Thanks(and fancy meeting you here, too, lol)!

 

Originally I was planning on just bringing all the supplies myself, I only doubted that idea because others posted. Rather not risk the inconsistent nature of such things though.

[Galatz]

Yeah its not always easy to get it all on...especially because last time we just did carry on times for the plane to make life easier. I think next time we are should just go out of NJ, and not have to worry about stuff like that

[cruisecookie]

We attend Friday night Shabbat services while onboard Royal Caribbean Cruises. The service is usually scheduled around 5:15 pm and is lay led. You might want to bring your own siddur because the ship supplies only a few very liberal siddurim. Usually one set of electric Shabbat candlles is supplied. But, every ship is different. On some cruises during "yeshiva week" we've had huge orthodox services because of the sailing population. (On the Allure there were so many people that they split into an Ashkenaz and Sefardic minyan!) On our last cruise in June 2012 on the Freedom, we were the only four people to show up. Usually the wine is Manischewitz Concord Grape. I have been told that the challah is kosher, but you should verify that for yourself. Once we ordered a kosher meal for Shabbat dinner at our dining room table. The Challah was delicious -- everything else was pretty bad. Have you ever eaten hot gefilte fish? As far as bringing your own tea lights, I would suggest you bring the battery powered ones that would stay lit until the battery wears out. Open flames are not permitted on the ship. Have a great cruise. Shabbat Shalom.

Edited August 24, 2012 by cruisecookie

[Alrana Eris]

In stead of real candles you can purchase LED candles in Party City or Michaels, Target etc, usually in the wedding aisle. As it won't replace the real thing, some LED candles look so real from a distance you couldn't tell. Just a suggestion..

[Krazy4Kruisin']

There has never been a Saturday morning service, as far as I know. We have always signed up with the purser's office for Friday night. We have been told by RCCI that they do indeed bake the challah in the kitchen, so you know it can't be Kosher since the kitchen is not Kosher.

 

As far as going in and out of your cabin, I think the idea of finding someone to open is better than taping the latch so it doesn't close completely. That would mean anyone walking by could go in and out of your cabin without you knowing it.

[Bubby6]

We just got off the Veendam (HAL) to Bermuda, where we had a minyan almost every day.

 

They gave us a room for services, and set up Wine for both the friday night and Shabbos day davenning. One of our group lit candles Friday night at her table in the dining room (real candles - not electric) and no one complained.

 

We had also taken wine along with us, and the ship supplied Matza.

 

Hope that we can put together another group for Alaska next summer!

[Sammy Sails]

So it is my understanding that RCI provides electric tealight candles, challah, and wine during the 'sabbath services' on Friday nights on all of their cruises, at least based on all of the threads I read via the search function. (So please don't tell me to search!) It seems like, at some point, there will be a sign up for 'sabbath services' on the cruise compass and you sign up, then go on friday evening. So far so good! I just have a few questions so we can work out logistics.

 

If it matters, we're cruising on Independence of the Seas in January(Western Caribbean).

 

When are the candles given out? To make use of them, we would need to make a blessing on them BEFORE sunset.

 

Is the wine certified kosher? Is it mevushal as well? I understand that you can buy Barkan(a kosher Israeli wine) on board -- is this what is offered?

 

Is the challah certified kosher, or is it baked by RCI?

 

We are Orthodox Jews, so we probably won't be able to take advantage of the prayer service, unless there are many other Orthodox Jews on board(it's just a strictness thing in regards to the prayer service -- no biggie). I understand that the challah and wine is given after the prayer service. Would we still be able to take advantage of it? Or would we be able to request challah and wine independently of the service?

 

I am sure we are not the only orthodox jews to ever take a cruise that takes place over shabbat with RCI, so I am sure we won't be the first to make such requests. I would just appreciate any advice anyone has, so I can make the necessary arrangements to ensure we have what we need.

 

Thanks everyone! You've all been so helpful with all my random questions in planning this cruise :)

 

We were on Explorer for Hanukkah last year. We had met the Rabbi and Cantor at the buffet and they were both lovely men. The had services every night with holiday foods. The services were show up and more heavily attended first night and last night but still about 30 average on the other nights. Services were Conservative style.

 

We travel with friends who keep Kosher and they had no problem finding food to eat on any other cruise. They eat Kosher style and we respected their dietary needs, but they said eat whatever you want just don't share wit us. There are lots of vegetarian dishes and fish to sample. I'm sure that dietary needs will be followed. Just to make sure contact "special needs" and explain what you need, If they can make no salt, gluten free I'm sure that Kosher will be no problem They went to services with me and again the style was more Conservative in structure. I'm not sure about wines however at services the wine was Kosher.

Enjoy the cruise.

[CruisinGerman]

We went on one of the first Latin Immersion Cruises out of Colón Panamá in 2008 during Easter/Passover. At that time, it was the Enchantment (now the Grandeur does that route).

 

During Passover, there was a rabbi provided by RCCL and a Passover seder offered. About 200 people attended the seder and they had to do it in one of the large private dining/conference rooms. RCCL provided all of the food and everything required for the seder.

 

It was absolutely fascinating to share this experience with 200 people from Colombia, Mexico, Argentina, Costa Rica, Venezuela.

 

Apart from the religious significance of the event, we had a marvelous time.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[NorbertsNiece]

We were on Explorer for Hanukkah last year. We had met the Rabbi and Cantor at the buffet and they were both lovely men. The had services every night with holiday foods. The services were show up and more heavily attended first night and last night but still about 30 average on the other nights. Services were Conservative style.

 

We travel with friends who keep Kosher and they had no problem finding food to eat on any other cruise. They eat Kosher style and we respected their dietary needs, but they said eat whatever you want just don't share wit us. There are lots of vegetarian dishes and fish to sample. I'm sure that dietary needs will be followed. Just to make sure contact "special needs" and explain what you need, If they can make no salt, gluten free I'm sure that Kosher will be no problem They went to services with me and again the style was more Conservative in structure. I'm not sure about wines however at services the wine was Kosher.

Enjoy the cruise.

 

Hi. 'Kosher style' is not the same as 'Kosher'. There is no way a kitchen on a cruise ship can cater for Kosher needs fully as the staffing and very specific preparation requirements preclude this service. If the whole ship were kosher that would be different. Even eating vegetarian / fish dishes would not suffice the orthodox Jew as all the dishes and preparation tools would have been used to prepare other, non Kosher, meals. That is why Kosher meals can be brought on board for those who require this assurance along with the sealed cutlery required.

 

Your friends made adjustments to their diet for spiritual reasons. It's totally different to the adjustments for no salt or gluten free which is for health and wellbeing reasons.

[avazah]

Hi. 'Kosher style' is not the same as 'Kosher'. There is no way a kitchen on a cruise ship can cater for Kosher needs fully as the staffing and very specific preparation requirements preclude this service. If the whole ship were kosher that would be different. Even eating vegetarian / fish dishes would not suffice the orthodox Jew as all the dishes and preparation tools would have been used to prepare other, non Kosher, meals. That is why Kosher meals can be brought on board for those who require this assurance along with the sealed cutlery required.

 

Your friends made adjustments to their diet for spiritual reasons. It's totally different to the adjustments for no salt or gluten free which is for health and wellbeing reasons.

 

Thanks for this reply. I wanted to say the same thing, but felt that anything I typed was coming off totally rude. You worded it very well! As I have stated in this thread as well, we have taken care of our kosher needs and do not need advice on eating kosher :)

[NorbertsNiece]

FYI there's a Cruising Jewish Board (continued) here