The truth about cruise staff working conditions and pay?

[CI66774]

I think the remedy is very simple: For all of you who want to pay the crew your definition of "decent" pay, just add the differential to your gratuities every time you cruise. I'm sure your conscience will guide you. Oh, and add a little from me, too. :D

[SantaFeFan]

I think the remedy is very simple: For all of you who want to pay the crew your definition of "decent" pay, just add the differential to your gratuities every time you cruise. I'm sure your conscience will guide you.

 

Wouldn't that be nice of them. Unfortunately, it seems that the most incensed of the posters appear to indicate that they will be removing the gratuities because of their refusal to participate in such an "unjust" practice. Odd that whilst they complain about the alleged poor working conditions and pay for the crew, they will proceed to take an action that will keep more money in their own pockets, using the "it's an unfair policy" argument as their justification for it. :rolleyes:

[Davyjonesrugrat]

The program might have been a bit one sided however the main points were

 

a. extremely long hours which also included hours for training bringing the hours worked to an very high level. As most people would agree working long hours is a major cause of 'accidents' Therefore this could be a contributing cause another maritime incident, would you be happy knowing the crewmember on the wheel watch is 'maxed out'?

b. The pay indicated to the reporter was later questioned onboard the Eclipse, and he was paid a revise amount. To see where the blame lies further investigation is needed to prove who was telling the truth and who misled the reporter.

c. The foreign workers, though working hard, did due to the low wages in their own countries. However this does not excuse the cruise line in letting us the passengers pay them in tips to remove the onus from them and then the Cruise line adding a bit if necessary to bring it up to the 'norm' The crew should be given a statutory pay amount that through the hard work of the individual is rewarded with additional tips.

d. The agencies recruiting the crew should be held liable to the cruise line for its practices, if they are found to be in breach of maritime agreements then both should be held to account. Any tickets that are necessary to undertake the 'employment' should be charged against the crewman with a minimal amount being taken each week to repay it.

e. It was indicated that a set amount was taken from each crew member to pay towards their repatriation. Even though the reporter joined in UK he was still charged the same amount as others from the Far east $670.

 

Celebrity needs to take the lead in this, the crew being employed should be taken from a 'pool' of workers bypassing agencies, they should be paid a set wage that through their own hard work is rewarded with the tips from passengers who apprecieated their hard graft.

 

We have seen people saying they dont mind paying a bit more and those who dont, well we could always bring back steerage. I have no qualms about paying that little extra if it brings me a safer cruise, Im not earning mega bucks either.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

With the members who have indicated withholding payments I can see some logic. Look along the line that the cruise line see that crewman jones passengers are not paying gratuities in the normal method and at the end of the week his wage appears down, so they top it up. Unknown to the cruise line, Mrs and Mrs Smith gave Jones the money into his hands directly......

 

Isnt Crewman Jones then better off? .....

 

That might be their logic and it has some rationale to it !!

[CI66774]

Davyjonesrugrat -

 

Many physicians/surgeons work very, very long hours. So do many workers in many different jobs/professions. It's the nature of the job. If one cannot do it, don't apply for the job.

 

If wages are increased then gratuities will suffer. The workers will end up getting paid the same in the end.

 

As long as there are thousands of people looking for work around the world, this method of payment will exist. That's the bottom line.

 

I used to cruise on Regent before it was "all-inclusive." Fares were raised dramatically, in some cases, now I don't cruise on Regent. That doesn't help any Regent worker if, as a result of a fare increase, they're laid off due to lost business.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Davyjonesrugrat -

 

Many physicians/surgeons work very, very long hours. So do many workers in many different jobs/professions. It's the nature of the job. If one cannot do it, don't apply for the job.

However the Physsicians/Surgeons get paid wonderful amounts of money, the waiter/ess onboard a cruise ship doesnt

 

If wages are increased then gratuities will suffer. The workers will end up getting paid the same in the end.

If my £50/$75 extra a week was going to give the crew a good basic wage I would have no qualms, If i thought they deserved more then I would give it willingly.

 

As long as there are thousands of people looking for work around the world, this method of payment will exist. That's the bottom line.

Im sorry but a news flash.....Its millions now and moreso why they should not be abused by unscrupulous companies just to keep their shareholders happy in these unpleasent economic times.

 

I used to cruise on Regent before it was "all-inclusive." Fares were raised dramatically, in some cases, now I don't cruise on Regent. That doesn't help any Regent worker if, as a result of a fare increase, they're laid off due to lost business.

Did you leave because they raised the fares to give their crew a decent wage or because the standards dropped?

 

We as the passengers love to cruise and do it cheaply however the program does highlight the adverse side of us doing this and how this affects the crew themselves.

 

rgds

[Ma Bell]

It doesn't affect the crew if we just do as expected. They will make a decent wage if we all pay the gratuities. Those of us who think they deserve more add more at the end of the cruise.

[navyrotorhead]

A Cabin steward does not have the same education or qualifications as a Cruise Ship Captain or a Neurosurgeon, there is NO comparison and therefore shouldn't be taken into consideration.

 

Cruise staff (waiters & cabin stewards, etc) work on cruise ships because they come from low social economic countries where there is either gross unemployment or poorly paid wages.

 

Everybody deserves the right to earn a decent living wage, I am an Aussie and Australians are not part of a tipping culture, but cruise lines are, therefore we need to follow culture when we travel and not what we do in our own country. I always choose select dining and pay in advance for my tip, I also tip extra if I feel it necessary and have received good service. Cruise staff go out of their way to enhance our trip, if I can replay them in some small way then I am happy too.

 

BOTH of your first two statements are absolutely correct and I agree,

 

UNFORTUNATELY there ARE people (some, posting on this thread) who don't think the difference in education/qualifications between a steward and a captain should have much to do with wages, working conditions, or living standards. That EVERYBODY should be EXACTLY "equal"

 

Consider your own statement for a moment and please DEFINE the term you used..."decent living wage" So many people use the term but never quantify it, and consider what the impact would be if everybody got a nice big fat juicy raise in wages. It would drive up the PRICES of EVERYTHING for EVERYONE.

 

In an emergency, our LIVES, as cruise ship passengers, may DEPEND on our room steward or assistant waiter. Just as MY life as a pilot, DEPENDED on an 18 year old deck hand on a aircraft carrier, who made a whole lot less money than I did, and lived in less "luxurious" "quarters."

 

What wages "SHOULD" a cruise line steward, waiter, buss boy, deck hand, bartender (or ANYBODY working "back home") be paid? "MORE!!!" is the almost universal, but never thought-through answer.

 

Hopefully "enough" to make their lives "better" but without driving up prices to where fewer and fewer and fewer people can afford to cruise and those employees get LAID OFF instead of getting a raise, more time off, better living/working conditions, or a retirement program.

 

At ANY RATE, skipping out on tips WILL hurt those people, and adding even a little extra, WILL help them. I also, choose select dining, so tips are always prepaid, and I also leave extra for the room stewards.

[thebooler]

...of quite a few of your posts on this thread. It would be interesting to know just what you consider "pay them properly" and "a decent wage" really means.:confused:

 

Why add a miserly 50pp? :mad: Wouldn't 150pp be better? :( How about some REAL worldwide ECONOMIC JUSTICE and make it 1050pp :rolleyes: After all shouldn't EVERYONE be treated equally and have the EXACT SAME standard of living and working conditions?

 

Isn't it grossly unfair and immoral that a cabin steward be paid ANY less than a Cruise Ship Captain, or say a Neurosurgeon? What happened to EQUALITY ??? :eek:

 

Should a "decent wage" allow you to live in a 400 square foot efficiency apartment? A 2,500 square foot 4 bedroom house? or maybe Buckingham Palace? ;)

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny, or just plain silly.

 

A decent wage for a waiter has absolutely no comparison to a decent wage for someone such as a neurosurgeon.

 

In most European countries there is a minimum wage system in place. I would say this should be the starting point. Not what a neurosurgeon earns.

[sabookkeeper]

Excellent post. More people need to take some time and talk to crew. Met a waiter on Solstice who is working until his wife completes her Pharmacutical degree. Then she will work and he will get his. Met several crew members who have degrees in Engineering. Met a member of the activities staff who has a law degree. An Assistant waitress in Murano on Solstice has a doctorate in medical research. The grant (in Russia) was lost and her job ended so she wants to take some time to see the world.

We have not cruised on Celebrity yet but we have cruised Princess. We always make it a point to talk to the staff, ask them where they are from, if they have family etc. Most of them are willing to share their stories with us and the common thread is that without their job on the cruise line, they would not be able to support their family. Also, in most cases, they are not supporting just their own family but their extended family as well...brothers, sisters, parents. We have met up with some of them in port so they do get time off. I think everyone needs to make decisions for what is best for themselves and/or their family.

[swsfrail]

However the Physsicians/Surgeons get paid wonderful amounts of money, the waiter/ess onboard a cruise ship doesnt

 

If my £50/$75 extra a week was going to give the crew a good basic wage I would have no qualms, If i thought they deserved more then I would give it willingly.

 

Im sorry but a news flash.....Its millions now and moreso why they should not be abused by unscrupulous companies just to keep their shareholders happy in these unpleasent economic times.

 

Did you leave because they raised the fares to give their crew a decent wage or because the standards dropped?

 

We as the passengers love to cruise and do it cheaply however the program does highlight the adverse side of us doing this and how this affects the crew themselves.

 

rgds

 

Based on your feelings, I am certain that before you leave all of your your cruises you give the crew enough money to bring them up to the pay standards you believe they should have, correct? You wouldn't want to be part of the problem, do you? Or is it to your advantage to look the other way when on the cruise, but protest loudly when at home in front of your computer screen? Just wondering!!!

[wvufan]

It doesn't affect the crew if we just do as expected. They will make a decent wage if we all pay the gratuities. Those of us who think they deserve more add more at the end of the cruise.

 

That's all that needs to be said.

 

Does anyone think there would be all these threads and concern about crew compensation if there were no such thing as tips [and trying to get out of paying them]? I have never seen a post about whether the captain, cruise director, or chef is adequately compensated

 

Not all that sure I believe in Karma, but in the case of people who stiff the crew, I certainly hope there is.

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE :D:D Bob and Phyl

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Based on your feelings, I am certain that before you leave all of your your cruises you give the crew enough money to bring them up to the pay standards you believe they should have, correct? You wouldn't want to be part of the problem, do you? Or is it to your advantage to look the other way when on the cruise, but protest loudly when at home in front of your computer screen? Just wondering!!!

I was part of the problem prior to watching that program, now I am thinking in a different view and will amend my cruising accordingly. Its not too hard a thing to do.

 

If paying my tips direct to them so that the cruise companies arent aware of where I give my tips means that their wages are increase then so be it !!

 

Yes my cruising style will change, Will you ?

 

Do I protest behind my screen no I dont I action whilst others sat back during recent Government cuts !

[Ma Bell]

I was part of the problem prior to watching that program, now I am thinking in a different view and will amend my cruising accordingly. Its not too hard a thing to do.

 

If paying my tips direct to them so that the cruise companies arent aware of where I give my tips means that their wages are increase then so be it !!

 

Yes my cruising style will change, Will you ?

 

Do I protest behind my screen no I dont I action whilst others sat back during recent Government cuts !

 

You are incredibly naive. If it shows that you removed your tips they will know that either you stiffed them or paid them directly. If you pay the tips directly and they do not turn them in, they risk losing their jobs. I can assure you they don't want to take the chance that this will happen. They are not required to turn in any tips received over and above the automatic gratuities.

 

I find it incomprehensible that this is even a question. Who cares what the compensation is called...it all comes from the same place. Is it really that difficult to understand? There is only one reason that anyone would do it differently and that is to avoid paying.

[jackdiamond]

MaBell, I applaud your reply, since due to this person's vocabulary I could not fully comprehend his or her position, except that he or she does not care to tip, for whatever "reason".

[Davyjonesrugrat]

You are incredibly naive. If it shows that you removed your tips they will know that either you stiffed them or paid them directly. If you pay the tips directly and they do not turn them in, they risk losing their jobs. I can assure you they don't want to take the chance that this will happen. They are not required to turn in any tips received over and above the automatic gratuities.

 

I find it incomprehensible that this is even a question. Who cares what the compensation is called...it all comes from the same place. Is it really that difficult to understand? There is only one reason that anyone would do it differently and that is to avoid paying.

No madam I am not naive and would suggest you look rationally at it......

 

For example...I dont pay pre-paid grats...The company think that the crews wage therefore has a high possiblity of not being as high as normal and therefore top up their wages to cover the shortfall. Unbeknown to them I have paid them myself and hence their wages are greater than would normally have been if I had paid pre-paid grats....

 

If the cruise company takes their tips off them it just shows how badly they are treated and ripped off. A tip is a reward it does not and should not constitute as part of a crewmembers wage.

 

I have never withheld my tips and would never not tip you surmised incorrectly and until such times as the cruise lines change this unfair practice the crew will continue to be ripped off by them.

 

Thankfully we have such organisations such as numast and nautical who stand up for the rights of poorly paid crew working in unfair terms and conditions. I might suggest you read some of their literature and see what really happens to some crews

 

respectfully yours

[Davyjonesrugrat]

MaBell, I applaud your reply, since due to this person's vocabulary I could not fully comprehend his or her position, except that he or she does not care to tip, for whatever "reason".

 

I see you have problems with plain english.....My points were as examples At no time did i ever say that i would not pay tips to the crew.......

 

I have always tipped and will continue to tip, from now on however I will consider my method of tipping.

 

The crew in my view are being ripped off and that is my point or dont you see that either?

 

regards

[Suzy Smith]

You are incredibly naive. If it shows that you removed your tips they will know that either you stiffed them or paid them directly. If you pay the tips directly and they do not turn them in, they risk losing their jobs. I can assure you they don't want to take the chance that this will happen. They are not required to turn in any tips received over and above the automatic gratuities.

 

I don't see how that can be the case. The staff get a list of who has paid the auto tips on the last night of the cruise, so they know what will be in their wage packet. But if staff are tipped during the cruise, they will not know whether that passenger has paid the auto tips or not.

 

It is interesting that a programme devoted to showing how badly the staff were treated, didn't mention the cash tips. I can only conclude this was missed out because it was a positive aspect of the job rather than a negative.

 

We always prepay our tips, but maybe the people who have been criticised for removing the auto tips and tipping in cash have been right all along!

[Ma Bell]

I don't see how that can be the case. The staff get a list of who has paid the auto tips on the last night of the cruise, so they know what will be in their wage packet. But if staff are tipped during the cruise, they will not know whether that passenger has paid the auto tips or not.

 

It is interesting that a programme devoted to showing how badly the staff were treated, didn't mention the cash tips. I can only conclude this was missed out because it was a positive aspect of the job rather than a negative.

 

We always prepay our tips, but maybe the people who have been criticised for removing the auto tips and tipping in cash have been right all along!

 

You are also wrong. The staff knows from the beginning and each day who has paid the tips. They also know when the tips are removed. Not only do they know whether their tips have been removed, but also the other crew members'. If the auto tips are removed they know they have to turn their tips in to be redistributed because in the auto tips are also amounts for others, such as the head housekeeper.

 

The positive cash tips are those that are received over and above the auto tips because they are allowed to keep these themselves.

[Suzy Smith]

It seems than anyone who has an opinion that is different from yours is automatically wrong, but I am intrigued to know how you have obtained your inside information. From staff, who may have their own agenda? What happens if a passenger takes off the auto tip towards the end of the cruise, do any earlier tips from that passenger have to be handed in retrospectively?

 

If the crew had to hand in their cash tips I am sure Dispatches would have been only to keen to add this to the list of grievances.

[boogs]

I have never withheld my tips and would never not tip you surmised incorrectly and until such times as the cruise lines change this unfair practice the crew will continue to be ripped off by them.

 

Perhaps this is true, but you have also voiced your belief that the crew are not paid enough. Do you give them several hundred more than is required so they will be up to your standards? if not, then you are complicit in the "ripping off" along with the company. You have enjoyed their services for much less money than your standards demand, but unless you make up the difference so they will end up with the amount you believe the company should be giving them, you ARE part of the problem. To walk off the ship without paying the difference while using the excuse that it is the company who is alone to blame for their low pay, while you enjoy your low priced cruise, is contradictory to your activist beliefs.

[tercar]

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny, or just plain silly.

 

A decent wage for a waiter has absolutely no comparison to a decent wage for someone such as a neurosurgeon.

 

In most European countries there is a minimum wage system in place. I would say this should be the starting point. Not what a neurosurgeon earns.

Some of the staff on board are very well qualified, nurse serving drinks accountants serving meals. dont assume they are not educated some better than those above them. circumstances lead them to what some think as lowly paid jobs,

[thebooler]

You are also wrong. The staff knows from the beginning and each day who has paid the tips. They also know when the tips are removed. Not only do they know whether their tips have been removed, but also the other crew members'. If the auto tips are removed they know they have to turn their tips in to be redistributed because in the auto tips are also amounts for others, such as the head housekeeper.

 

The positive cash tips are those that are received over and above the auto tips because they are allowed to keep these themselves.

 

What would happen in the following scenario?

 

Stateroom Attendant is given $50 tip from a guest on Day 1 of the cruise. On Day 3, the Stateroom Attendant has a half day off, goes ashore, and spends the $50 on clothes. On the final day of the cruise, the guest requests the daily service charge (tips) is removed. Where does this place the Stateroom Attendant as he's already spent his cash tip, not knowing the guest was going to remove the srvice charge?

 

Hypothetical, I know. But something which could, and does happen.

[thebooler]

Some of the staff on board are very well qualified, nurse serving drinks accountants serving meals. dont assume they are not educated some better than those above them. circumstances lead them to what some think as lowly paid jobs,

I know. But they are in the minority. The majority of cruise ship waiters, waitresses, bar tenders are not highly qualified people.

[nijh]

Suzy Smith - yes they do have to hand them in.

 

If Dispatches had done anything like a decent job in reporting rather than just, and I quote, "an exposé" then indeed this may have been raised.