The truth about cruise staff working conditions and pay?

[cruiser87654321]

I wonder how many of the Channel 4 producers, directors and reporters have iPhones? Are they going to make a programme about the way that employees are horribly exploited in China by the manufacturers who work for Apple, so we in the West can have fancy smartphones (and yes I have one but don't feel comfortable about the way it will have been made). Sadly exploitation is all around and it still goes on in the UK just as much as on cruise ships. My daughter works in the film/video industry and has worked very hard to get where she has (two notches up the ladder so far) - exploitation is rife with many young people so desperate to work they do it for free or on min wage for very antisocial conditions. It's the same everywhere if you care to scratch the surface. So it's important to ensure we pay our gratuities and provide additional tips for service 'above and beyond'. Maybe people won't complain so much about the 15% added to the bar bills.

 

All areas of exploitation are wrong, it doesn't make the issues raised any more palatable to me to know it goes on elsewhere.

 

 

I thought they said that if gratuities were removed then the cruiseline paid the difference so that every crew member got the basic wage?...Why doesn't the cruiseline pay the basic wage in the first place and then tips are what they are meant to be...a bonus for excellent service!!:)

 

Exactly, why don't they?

[CostaSmurfette]

Something that needs to be remembered here in regard to the wages.

 

The amounts last night on the programme were quoted in US Dollars, it does not give an accurate figure for those who work on the ships and who hail from Philippines, India, China where wage rates are insanely low by comparison to the US and UK.

 

I made the example of the dishwasher on the programme last night in my previous post :

 

The dishwasher featured in the programme gets $670 a month which equals 20,600 Thai Baht...£416...€520...4210 Chinese Yuan...35420 Indian Rupees....27,906 Philippine Peso....so when put into context, ie, using the current exchnage rate for their home countries, the wages are probably significantly more than they would expect to earn at home.

 

I included the pound and euro conversions to show the disparity of last night's film...yes for those countries who have pound's, euro's and dollar's the basic wage is low...but for those from other countries where the majority of cruise ship crews come from, the wage is pretty high and gives them and their families a reasonable standard of living AT HOME, which is the important thing here.

 

Now had the wages equated to the national average wage of these nationalities, then yes, it would be justified to say that they are slave labour....but the wages do not reflect that at all.

 

And as has been said all along, no crewmember is forced to remain on the ships, they can opt out of their contract at any time and they can choose not to renew a contract at any time. The mere fact that so many of these crewmembers are seen by us on ships time and time again over the years surely must be proof that the wages and conditions are not that terrible...hard work and long hours, absolutely, but if things were so dreadful, these guys and girls would not stay with the companies...they would vote with their feet and leave.

[thebooler]

That's probably the only thing worthwhile to come out of the programme.

 

Or the company could pay them properly?

[thebooler]

I do think that we like to rationalise these types of programmes becayse we like to cruise. if the points raised were anywhere near the truth then as passengers we collude with these unscrupulous practices.

 

Tipping should not be a sub for a decent living wage, they should be an adjunct to it for good service.

 

Totally agree.

 

1st comes a decent salary. 2nd is tips (when service merits).

[CostaSmurfette]

On another note regarding the wages, when I cruised aboard Costa Classica in May this year, the subject of wages came into the conversations that I had with one of the cocktail waitresses that I knew from previous cruises.

 

She mentioned that she had been given a pay rise and she was thrilled to bits about it...she went as far as to show me her pay slip for the previous month.

 

The reason why we were chatting about this subject is that Costa introduced an all inclusive package this year and we discussed how much of a difference it made not having the 15% added gratuity on individual drinks, and she knew me from previous cruises before the AI came into being...I just asked her if it made a big difference to lose the individual 15%'s or not.

 

She spoke candidly about this and admitted that she was worried that her wage...or gratuity level...would go down. However, far from it.

 

Costa have increased wages to take into account the potential loss of the 15% on individual drinks, so now instead of taking home $695 (28,950 Philippine Peso's) per month, she now takes home $825 (34,360 Philippine Peso's) per month. The waitress has 4 young children at home, her husband works in a local factory just outside Manila where they live. She has been with Costa for 5 years, was infact aboard Costa Concordia when the accident happened, but decided to return to Costa afterwards cos she loved the sea and she has so many friends on the ships...her four children all have college education paid for thanks to her working on the ships, something she openly admits would have been completely impossible had she worked at home in Manila.

 

This is why it is vital to take this whole wage subject in its full context and to ditch the misconception that the film last night tried to portray..we in the UK might not get out of bed for that sort of money, but to the Pinoy crews (and the other Asian crews) working on a cruise ship is a well respected profession at home and even if they are not millionaires, they are comfortable compared to many others living in their home countries.

[Jimmys Chippy]

Or the company could pay them properly?

 

Cruise lines pay wages that are relatively good for them (lower than employing Westerners) and the crew get wages that are relatively good for them (higher than they would do at home). This system, whilst totally incomprehensible to some people outside the industry, seems to suit those parties involved.

[compman9]

My views are simple...

 

I would prefer the employer pays the wages and the gratuities are absorbed into our cruise fare. Service standards would not drop, and the other benefits, like days off, bonuses, general additional tipping from passengers, would ensure standards were maintained.

 

I do however have a problem with the flag of convenience, that contrarily, I believe has little to do with pay, and everything to do with the hours the staff are made to work.

 

It is a cruise worker's decision to work for the pay, but the hours are too long for many of the customer facing staff. People can bury their heads in the sand, but the facts are there for you to see. It is the one thing, apart from the exorbitant shore excursion prices, that I do not like about cruising. Which, is still a lot less than a land based vacation.

[thebooler]

Why don't the cruise companies add around £50pp to each cruise and pay the staff a decent wage?

Tips would then be an extra for services rendered.

[thebooler]

Ok an example I work on a cruise ship - my monthly pay is $600 a month ( it’s in my contract, which you only get after you sail). I get 300 in tips the first month. The cruise line will then pay me $300 to make me up to $600.

 

The next month, I get 550 in tips ( this is in pre-paid tips) so the cruise line will pay me $50 to make up my monthly wage of $600.

 

SO IMHO it’s the passengers who are paying the staff their wages.

 

For the record cruise ships fly “THE FLAG OF CONVIENENCE “ last nights ship was USA/South African/Malta - if they(cruise lines) used UK as the flag of CONVIENENCE they(cruise lines) would have to abide by UK laws

 

 

JMO

 

What happens when you get $700 in tips? Do you give the cruise line $100?

 

Only joking. I do agree though that the customer is paying the biggest part of the staff's wages.

[Christine Frances]

I'm sorry people, but I have this visual of the crew with their computers reading cruise critic and giggling as they read how we all try and guess what they make, how happy they are, how many days off they get, what portion of the tip they get etc After reading CC for years there has been no definitive answer to any of these questions and I think the crew realizes that fact and would rather leave it up to speculation. And I for one agree:D

[Jimmys Chippy]

Why don't the cruise companies add around £50pp to each cruise and pay the staff a decent wage?

Tips would then be an extra for services rendered.

 

They are happy with the wages they're getting.

[thebooler]

Cruise lines pay wages that are relatively good for them (lower than employing Westerners) and the crew get wages that are relatively good for them (higher than they would do at home). This system, whilst totally incomprehensible to some people outside the industry, seems to suit those parties involved.

 

When you say it suits the parties involved, do you genuinely believe that the majority of the staff onboard are happy with their lot? The reason I ask is, I know many of them, and used to work with many of them, and it was rare to find someone who really enjoyed their lot.

Yes, they'll smile and say they're happy at work. That's generally because they're not allowed to say otherwise, or they won't be there much longer.

The majority are there because they have to be, and thay can earn more than they do back home.

They are also away from their families for around 10 months at a stretch.

[Ma Bell]

Gratuities are added to your shipboard daily unless they have been prepaid. It takes a concerted effort to have them removed. Is it really that difficult to understand that regardless of what they are called, they are part of the cruise fare except for those people who can rationalize some reason to remove them.

 

It's not a big problem except on certain itineraries and I guess we can all see which ones they are. Sad, if you ask me.

[Jimmys Chippy]

and thay can earn more than they do back home.

 

 

Bingo!

 

And when I'm jumping out of bed in the morning at 4.00am I'll be a miserable get too, but I'll be getting my wage at the end of the week, the bills will be paid and will have a bit left over too.

[Ma Bell]

When you say it suits the parties involved, do you genuinely believe that the majority of the staff onboard are happy with their lot? The reason I ask is, I know many of them, and used to work with many of them, and it was rare to find someone who really enjoyed their lot.

Yes, they'll smile and say they're happy at work. That's generally because they're not allowed to say otherwise, or they won't be there much longer.

The majority are there because they have to be, and thay can earn more than they do back home.

They are also away from their families for around 10 months at a stretch.

 

How do you know them if you say you have never been on a cruise before?

[JLSPOOL]

Expect hard work on Equinox, March 25, 2013 Ultimate Caribbean with Bayley aboard.:eek:

[thebooler]

How do you know them if you say you have never been on a cruise before?

 

Sorry, you've lost me. I don't recall saying I've never been on a cruise.

 

I still have friends who worked on the ships. I have a friend currently working on one of the ships now, who I will be catching up with as I embark in January.

[Jimmys Chippy]

Gratuities are added to your shipboard daily unless they have been prepaid. It takes a concerted effort to have them removed. Is it really that difficult to understand that regardless of what they are called, they are part of the cruise fare except for those people who can rationalize some reason to remove them.

 

It's not a big problem except on certain itineraries and I guess we can all see which ones they are. Sad, if you ask me.

 

People who remove tips make me sick to be honest. I wouldn't mind as much if they just said they did it because they were tight and would rather keep the money for themselves, but the lame excuses just makes them look like the atrocious individuals they are. "Yes, I'd like to remove the auto gratuity because I'd like to tip them personally" usually means they're not going to give them as much as the recommended amount or maybe nothing at all.

[Ma Bell]

Sorry, you've lost me. I don't recall saying I've never been on a cruise.

 

I still have friends who worked on the ships. I have a friend currently working on one of the ships now, who I will be catching up with as I embark in January.

 

When someone claims to know people on a cruise line and says they've worked with them it makes me curious about their background. It's very easy to read your other posts. My mistake...you've been on your first cruise in July...on Norwegian.

[thebooler]

When someone claims to know people on a cruise line and says they've worked with them it makes me curious about their background. It's very easy to read your other posts. My mistake...you've been on your first cruise in July...on Norwegian.

 

Apology accepted.................

[retired067]

I'm sorry people, but I have this visual of the crew with their computers reading cruise critic and giggling as they read how we all try and guess what they make, how happy they are, how many days off they get, what portion of the tip they get etc After reading CC for years there has been no definitive answer to any of these questions and I think the crew realizes that fact and would rather leave it up to speculation. And I for one agree

 

I think you said it very well and I agree with you. It is nobody's concern but the crew members and I have seen many of them using their computers. Now I think it's time to revisit a serious topic," WHAT TO WEAR ON FORMAL NIGHT"

SEE YA

[cruiser87654321]

Gratuities are added to your shipboard daily unless they have been prepaid. It takes a concerted effort to have them removed. Is it really that difficult to understand that regardless of what they are called, they are part of the cruise fare except for those people who can rationalize some reason to remove them.

 

It's not a big problem except on certain itineraries and I guess we can all see which ones they are. Sad, if you ask me.

 

You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this when it is not really the subject of this thread. This is not about gratuities as much as the fact that the cruise lines do not pay a decent wage, if they did gratuities would then be extras for the crew. Can you really not see that? You seem to want to deflect the real issue.

 

If you want to play the blame game then we could go down the route of saying those who want to keep the clearly unfair status quo rather than pay a little more for their cruises are the ones who aid and abet in these unfair practices.

 

Additionally, your veiled dig at the Brits could be set against the fact that they simply have a different tipping culture and/or value the principle of a fair days pay for a fair days work more than others who routinely tip to prop up the deficiencies in their own hospitality industries. They are simply unused to having to accept that tips are not optional, not paid as extras for good service, and the notion that they replace payment for the job from the proper source: the employer, is an anathema to them.

 

Who is to say whose view is correct. There is a school of thought that if everyone stood firm and tipped in cash then wages would have to rise. Note, not did not tip at all, or tip less than the recommended amount, but merely did not allow the employers to be privy to the transaction.

[ghstudio]

It certainly would be interesting to see what the cost of a cruise might be if the entire crew was paid at least "minimum wage" (and you can define that any way you want).

 

My guess....the price of a cabin would increase dramatically. Yes, those still employed might make a little more, but the risk is that there would be less folks employed because ships would sail less full, or not at all. The entire business model changes.

[Ma Bell]

You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this when it is not really the subject of this thread. This is not about gratuities as much as the fact that the cruise lines do not pay a decent wage, if they did gratuities would then be extras for the crew. Can you really not see that? You seem to want to deflect the real issue.

 

If you want to play the blame game then we could go down the route of saying those who want to keep the clearly unfair status quo rather than pay a little more for their cruises are the ones who aid and abet in these unfair practices.

 

Additionally, your veiled dig at the Brits could be set against the fact that they simply have a different tipping culture and/or value the principle of a fair days pay for a fair days work more than others who routinely tip to prop up the deficiencies in their own hospitality industries. They are simply unused to having to accept that tips are not optional, not paid as extras for good service, and the notion that they replace payment for the job from the proper source: the employer, is an anathema to them.

 

Who is to say whose view is correct. There is a school of thought that if everyone stood firm and tipped in cash then wages would have to rise. Note, not did not tip at all, or tip less than the recommended amount, but merely did not allow the employers to be privy to the transaction.

 

As far as not paying a fair days wage, I would think that would be in the eyes of the employee. A cruise ship is not a company store, or the only place in town to work. No one is forced to work there and many young people would think it's a great opportunity to learn something, meet new friends, see the world, have room and board included, save some money and actually have the opportunity to be paid more than the daily gratuity if they do a really great job.

 

 

You just don't seem to "get" that since the "gratuities" are added, "automatically" on a daily basis or are paid in advance, they are part of the cruise fare unless someone chooses to remove them. I certainly do understand that other cultures have different attitudes about wages, tips, salaries etc. I also understand that in a service business the consumer pays, one way or the other, regardless of what one chooses to call something. If the wages rise, so do the prices to the consumer. If it's called a service charge, it's the same as adding gratuities daily.

 

It's a shame that being "unused" to something would be used as an excuse for not doing what is customary. Most people who travel realize that things are done differently all over the world and when we travel it's the polite thing to do to observe what's customary. Since we are all aware that this is the way many cruise ship employees are compensated, it would seem that the proper thing to do would be to follow this model.

[cruiseacecat]

Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand. It is NOT just about the wages paid. The tip is calculated to BE part of the crews wages. It is not just a matter of "lets tip this person because he did a better than average job" This is just the way it is. If you do not like it, and do not plan on simply accepting the model as is, please don't cruise.

 

And for those who feel the crew should be paid a wage comparable to a land based job, you might want to consider whether or not you would than even be able to afford to cruise. I doubt that I could.

 

The system works. It is not pretty, but it works if the tipping protocols are followed.

 

Anne