The truth about cruise staff working conditions and pay?

[thebooler]

It certainly would be interesting to see what the cost of a cruise might be if the entire crew was paid at least "minimum wage" (and you can define that any way you want).

 

My guess....the price of a cabin would increase dramatically. Yes, those still employed might make a little more, but the risk is that there would be less folks employed because ships would sail less full, or not at all. The entire business model changes.

 

Another £50 pp would see the staff on say, NCL's Epic earning around £200pm more.

[fredflint]

OK I just downloaded the video no problem from the US

 

this proxy server 109.169.40.229 port 8080 and it will work

 

if you are using IE

 

tools internet options connections lan settings

choose the bottom box the 109... goes in the left side the 8080 is the port then just paste in the youtube link

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyMIsCTU418

[Aus Traveller]

Some info here on jobs and life onboard: http://www.celebritycareersatsea.com/#

I found it interesting that the Celebrity website says the company pays the "hiring partner", not the employee. I felt it was totally illogical that an employee would pay $3,500 (as stated) to obtain a job where the contract was for 10 months work for much less than $3,500.

[Christine Frances]

You are speaking of the TV show regarding the $3500?

 

Have a look at X's site regarding hiring partners http://www.celebritycareersatsea.com/pages/about_hiring_partners

 

On the right hand side there is a "Scam Alert" list of unapproved companies who charge employees for positions. It is too bad that there is not some way of shutting them down. The approved ones are recruiters only and get paid by X.

[Charles4515]

It certainly would be interesting to see what the cost of a cruise might be if the entire crew was paid at least "minimum wage" (and you can define that any way you want).

 

My guess....the price of a cabin would increase dramatically. Yes, those still employed might make a little more, but the risk is that there would be less folks employed because ships would sail less full, or not at all. The entire business model changes.

 

The price of a cabin won't be determined by what the crew is paid. The price will be determined by the supply and demand of the product. If wages are increased, that increased cost will come out of the cruise lines profits. The price of a cabin would only increase if the consumer was willing to pay the increased price. Likely the price could not be increased very much without losing customers.

[fishin' musician]

To withold wages from hard working crew while you are on vacation/holiday is about as low as one could sink. It is a succesful business model that provides benefit for all.

[Aus Traveller]

To withold wages from hard working crew while you are on vacation/holiday is about as low as one could sink. It is a succesful business model that provides benefit for all.

Sorry - the crew are not actually on vacation when they go home. They sign on for a 10 month (or sometimes 8 month) contract and are paid for that time.

 

Their total remuneration for the working months isn't anywhere nearly as low as is often claimed. :) Waiters say it is much more than they would get for a similar job in their home country. There are quite a few waiters with university degrees who must find that they earn more working on a ship than working in their home country in the field they are qualified for.

[Aus Traveller]

The price of a cabin won't be determined by what the crew is paid. The price will be determined by the supply and demand of the product. If wages are increased, that increased cost will come out of the cruise lines profits. The price of a cabin would only increase if the consumer was willing to pay the increased price. Likely the price could not be increased very much without losing customers.

I have to agree.:) In the last couple of years tips have been eliminated on P&O Australia and Princess Australia ships. I can't see that the cruise fares have gone up significantly.

 

Stewards/waiters wages have gone up to make up for the money lost by the removal of tips - and they love it. By the way, some passengers still tip, but probably not anywhere near as much as previously.

[navyrotorhead]

The price of a cabin won't be determined by what the crew is paid. The price will be determined by the supply and demand of the product. :confused:

 

Your first statement is INCORRECT, because crew wages are indeed a factor in the cost of the product. If the costs (wages) to the SUPPLIER (cruise line) of the product (cabins) rises, the supplier will pass on those costs to the consumer through higher prices. This is the same misunderstood law of economics that perpetuates the myth of corporate taxes. NO corporation has EVER paid a single penny of corporate taxes, YOU and I pay them, through increased prices.

 

Your second statement IS CORRECT. If the costs to the supplier increase they will either charge more (IF the consumer can afford to pay the higher price) OR the supplier will REDUCE the amount of cabins supplied by scrapping or selling ships and laying off workers. :( (not good for ANYONE)

 

It's the difference between moving ALONG a supply curve, and SHIFTING the supply curve to the left or right.

 

 

 

If wages are increased, that increased cost will come out of the cruise lines profits.

 

Would YOU continue to work as hard as you are now for LESS money? :eek:

Why would a corporation, its stockholders and yes, even its employees?:rolleyes:

 

 

 

The price of a cabin would only increase if the consumer was willing to pay the increased price. Likely the price could not be increased very much without losing customers

 

Correct, as above, and the number of cabins offered will decrease. Causing the price to go up, and, just like in the "good old days" cruising reverts to something only a relatively few "wealthy" people can afford instead of the 10 million per year that enjoy it now. :cool:

[Project_gal]

Ok an example I work on a cruise ship - my monthly pay is $600 a month ( it’s in my contract, which you only get after you sail). I get 300 in tips the first month. The cruise line will then pay me $300 to make me up to $600.

 

The next month, I get 550 in tips ( this is in pre-paid tips) so the cruise line will pay me $50 to make up my monthly wage of $600.

 

 

What has not been made clear in neither the television programme nor in the posts on these boards is the difference between the basic tips/gratuities [i.e. the recommended daily amount deducted automatically unless you stop them] and additional tips/gratuities made by guests. The guaranteed pay [i.e. your $600/month] assumes that staff will be paid the basic tips/gratuities. If they are not because the ship was not full and they did not get their full compliment of guests or because someone has stopped their auto-tips, the cruise line makes up their pay to the guaranteed level. If the worker then receives additional tips above and beyond the recommended daily amount, they then keep them increasing their pay. Staff have to hand over any cash tips paid to them by any passengers who have not paid their basic gratuities. It is treated very seriously if they do not.

 

All those people who say that they are stopping the auto-gratuities because they like to reward people personally are only making life difficult for the staff who serve them and are not achieving what they intend. They are also in danger of missing all those who serve them invisibly in the background who are included in the auto-gratuities.

 

SO IMHO it’s the passengers who are paying the staff their wages.

 

 

Sorry, but who did you think paid the staff? Without passengers cruising staff would not be paid. You may not like they system, it may be allien to our way of thinking in the UK BUT, however the system works, it is the passengers who pay the staff.

 

Sue

[boogs]

Sorry, but who did you think paid the staff? Without passengers cruising staff would not be paid. You may not like they system, it may be allien to our way of thinking in the UK BUT, however the system works, it is the passengers who pay the staff.

 

Sue

 

An excellent point. Cruise lines, and any vendor of any product for that matter, survive because people purchase their products. Every dime a cruise line spends on staff wages, new ships, retrofits, food supplies, advertising, corporate offices and staff, etc, is paid for by the passengers who book cruises on their ships. Even if the cruise companies paid the full wages for staff, and had a zero tipping policy, the staff wages would still paid for by passengers who purchase cruises.

 

Bottom line, it makes no difference HOW the staff is paid - it is we passengers who ultimately pay it.

[Jimmys Chippy]

This is just the way it is. If you do not like it, and do not plan on simply accepting the model as is, please don't cruise.

 

 

Posters who disagree with the model have known about the system for a while. It bothers them and disgusts them, but it doesn't seem to bother and disgust them enough as they continue to cruise.

[zippy12]

It obvious that when we book a cruise that we are paying for the staff wages;)

 

But !!! Tips/gratuities. Should be an extra bonus for good service. (Which we always give generously) ;)

 

We love celebrity and have always received excellent service :)

[navyrotorhead]

Or the company could pay them properly?

 

Why don't the cruise companies add around £50pp to each cruise and pay the staff a decent wage?

Tips would then be an extra for services rendered.

 

...of quite a few of your posts on this thread. It would be interesting to know just what you consider "pay them properly" and "a decent wage" really means.:confused:

 

Why add a miserly 50pp? :mad: Wouldn't 150pp be better? :( How about some REAL worldwide ECONOMIC JUSTICE and make it 1050pp :rolleyes: After all shouldn't EVERYONE be treated equally and have the EXACT SAME standard of living and working conditions?

 

Isn't it grossly unfair and immoral that a cabin steward be paid ANY less than a Cruise Ship Captain, or say a Neurosurgeon? What happened to EQUALITY ??? :eek:

 

Should a "decent wage" allow you to live in a 400 square foot efficiency apartment? A 2,500 square foot 4 bedroom house? or maybe Buckingham Palace? ;)

[Jimmys Chippy]

 

 

But !!! Tips/gratuities. Should be an extra bonus for good service. (Which we always give generously) ;)

 

When booking a cruise on Celebrity's site last time it came through as thus

 

Cost of cruise £2400

Gratuities £80 x 3 = £270

 

Total £2670

 

And that was it. We paid the total, I got my cruise, Celebrity got their money and the crew got theirs. The problem comes from our 'culture' wanting to remove gratuities because they don't want to pay it.

[Aussie Claire]

[quote name=navyrotorhead;35570389 Isn't it grossly unfair and immoral that a cabin steward be paid ANY less than a Cruise Ship Captain' date=' or say a Neurosurgeon? What happened to EQUALITY ??? :eek:

 

Should a "decent wage" allow you to live in a 400 square foot efficiency apartment? A 2,500 square foot 4 bedroom house? or maybe Buckingham Palace? ;)[/quote]

 

A Cabin steward does not have the same education or qualifications as a Cruise Ship Captain or a Neurosurgeon, there is NO comparison and therefore shouldn't be taken into consideration.

 

Cruise staff (waiters & cabin stewards, etc) work on cruise ships because they come from low social economic countries where there is either gross unemployment or poorly paid wages.

 

Everybody deserves the right to earn a decent living wage, I am an Aussie and Australians are not part of a tipping culture, but cruise lines are, therefore we need to follow culture when we travel and not what we do in our own country. I always choose select dining and pay in advance for my tip, I also tip extra if I feel it necessary and have received good service. Cruise staff go out of their way to enhance our trip, if I can replay them in some small way then I am happy too.

[CABINET]

If I'm honest it wasn't the money that bothered me so much about the programme as the working hours (even more so if it is true that, in addition to the long hours worked, they also have to take part in safety training).

[Aus Traveller]

If I'm honest it wasn't the money that bothered me so much about the programme as the working hours (even more so if it is true that, in addition to the long hours worked, they also have to take part in safety training).

Working hours are limited to 10 hours per day for a seven day week. Staff have to attend safety training, but this time would be included in their maximum number of hours worked in the week.

[Freecall]

To me it seemed like an attempt to present the working conditions in the same way that they present sweat shops in India or the construction industry in Dubai.

 

No evidence to support any of that though.

 

Some employees go back year after year so it can't be that bad.

[zippy12]

When booking a cruise on Celebrity's site last time it came through as thus

 

Cost of cruise £2400

Gratuities £80 x 3 = £270

 

Total £2670

 

And that was it. We paid the total, I got my cruise, Celebrity got their money and the crew got theirs. The problem comes from our 'culture' wanting to remove gratuities because they don't want to pay it.

 

When we have had the service ;) not before :)

[cruiser87654321]

If I'm honest it wasn't the money that bothered me so much about the programme as the working hours (even more so if it is true that, in addition to the long hours worked, they also have to take part in safety training).

 

Working hours are limited to 10 hours per day for a seven day week. Staff have to attend safety training, but this time would be included in their maximum number of hours worked in the week.

 

In the film that wasn't what was said, nor are they paid for training hours. I think we should remember that these are the people who will hold our lives in their hands in the event of an emergency situation. Would an employee who has worked 10 hours shifts for up to 10 months straight be your choice of evac officer?

[cruiser87654321]

Posters who disagree with the model have known about the system for a while. It bothers them and disgusts them, but it doesn't seem to bother and disgust them enough as they continue to cruise.

 

Perhaps because some of us also tip well over and above the pre paid or included grats to salve our consciences? Which means that we can legitimately and honestly comment on the inequalities and unfair practices without being hypocritical.

 

Perhaps those of us who do feel that we shouldn't have to do that to support cruise lines in their attempts to pass the buck to passengers. Could that be it?

 

I absolutely hate the system but like to cruise, so I do what my conscience allows but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to challenge the system whenever I get the opportunity. My hope is that eventually if the larger lines cruise in Europe more frequently they will have to adjust the business model to accommodate the tipping habits of those who will sail with them. think it is already happening with some lines including British ones and it is what I would hope to see more of. If that increases prices across the board so be it.

[nijh]

OK how about: (using Jimmys Chippy's example, if I may)

 

Cost of cruise £2400

Hotel Charge x 3 = £270

 

Total £2670

 

Celebrity Cruises operates an All Inclusive Policy, no tips/gratuities are expected or required. However if you feel someone has given exemplary service please feel free to reward them as you feel appropriate.

 

 

Strikes me the words Tips and Gratuities are quite a stumbling block.

 

How about Resort Fee? That's getting to be a popular one for land based accomodation. Try finding that clearly marked on a hotel website.

 

Another one is 'Discretionary Service Charge' which is often added to a restaurant bill whether you want it to or not. You'll only be made aware of this in the small print at the bottom of the menu - that may well be after you have sat down.

 

Occasionally you'll even find a 'Compulsory Service Charge' in which case you have to pay it unless the service was particularly poor. Never seen this notified in anything bigger than an 8 point font at the bottom of a page.

 

They all mean the same and they all appear on the bill at some point, the only difference is that the land based charges don't tend to be as clearly indicated as the cruise lines' additional charges do.

[jackdiamond]

When booking a cruise on Celebrity's site last time it came through as thus

 

Cost of cruise £2400

Gratuities £80 x 3 = £270

 

Total £2670

 

And that was it. We paid the total, I got my cruise, Celebrity got their money and the crew got theirs. The problem comes from our 'culture' wanting to remove gratuities because they don't want to pay it.

You are correct. Sadly, some folks use the "culture" gimmick to stiff the staff.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

All you have to do is talk with the crew and you get a pretty good idea of what life is like onboard.

 

The entertainment staff works very few hours onboard and has lots of free time. These jobs are really good. I know personally people that have done this type of work and it was relatively easy work for them. The pay was also pretty decent ( $3000 per month).

 

The Spa people have days off while in port and lots of down time because the spa hours are limited. This probably the best place to work on the ship.

 

The waiters are the most coveted positions as far as the crew go. They work long hours but they make the most money. The sommelier and bartender positions are pretty good as well. The waiters and sommeliers get approximately one half day off every 10 days.

 

The room stewards get very little time off- one half day every 14 days.

 

The youth staff gets half days off on port days.

 

The rest of the crew is- pool staff, maintenance are probably the lowest paid and get very little time off.

 

Americans can indeed work on cruise ships but most don't because of the long hours.