The truth about cruise staff working conditions and pay?

[Scotty G]

It was a surprise to hear that cabin stewards hired staff at their own cost to help them with workload - not sure that practice is widespread. Wouldnt we notice unfamiliar staff around our staterooms?

 

Tony UK: We frequently cruise on RCL's Monarch out of Port Canaveral. They do turn abouts twice a week (3 and 4 night cruises). I have seen folks other than my cabin steward on departure day tearing down bedding, etc.. in cabins already vacated. On a B2B also saw a person from Guest Relations cleaning Stateroom bathrooms. I suppose that is why the suggested rate for cabin steward (Housekeeping) gratuities was raised recently.

[Ma Bell]

You don't think it immoral to have to rely on the charity/goodwill of those you serve to have a decent pay packet? I disagree.

 

It is not charity. It is a well known custom and practice and just the way pay is handled. Gratuities are added to the passenger's account daily if not paid before departure. It takes a concerted effort to go to guest relations and have them removed. It seems to me that it doesn't matter what you call it, payroll, pay packet, service charge or gratuities, (you say tomato and I say tomato) it all comes out the same unless someone makes the effort to purposely remove them. Do you find that a moral thing to do?

[gourmet guide]

I love CH 4. they do good work. They omitted one tiny thing though. They did NOT include any cash tips given to the crew member. They only counted prepaid tips. THe cash tips are a big part of their wages and if these amounts were included they would have seen that they actually get a half decent wage.

[whistlerbc]

I fail to see the point of the entire programme which focused on British minimum wage when none of the ships featured are even British! Why would British law or minimum wage requirements have anything to do with these ships???

 

It is also fair to say that the majority of crew do love their jobs and do benefit from pay packets that would be completely out of reach in their own countries. I wonder if the next episode will come to us from a popular hotel somewhere like Indonesia where a percentage of holidaymakers happen to be British and how that will relate to the British minimum wage??!!!

 

Programme was nothing short of total garbage!!

[sloopsailor]

It is not charity. It is a well known custom and practice and just the way pay is handled. Gratuities are added to the passenger's account daily if not paid before departure. It takes a concerted effort to go to guest relations and have them removed. It seems to me that it doesn't matter what you call it, payroll, pay packet, service charge or gratuities, (you say tomato and I say tomato) it all comes out the same unless someone makes the effort to purposely remove them. Do you find that a moral thing to do?

 

Ma Bell is correct. Removing them would be the same as denying them part of their pay if these funds had been included as part of the cruise fare. Whatever you think of the system, it is what it is, and it won't be affected by the few who insist they will do it their way. The only people who are harmed are the crew members when someone stubbornly refuses to go along with the system. Doesn't seem compassionate or moral to me.

[sloopsailor]

I fail to see the point of the entire programme which focused on British minimum wage when none of the ships featured are even British! Why would British law or minimum wage requirements have anything to do with these ships???

 

It is also fair to say that the majority of crew do love their jobs and do benefit from pay packets that would be completely out of reach in their own countries. I wonder if the next episode will come to us from a popular hotel somewhere like Indonesia where a percentage of holidaymakers happen to be British and how that will relate to the British minimum wage??!!!

 

Programme was nothing short of total garbage!!

 

And how many of these self righteous complainers who are so incensed about what the ship crews are being paid go out and purchase items made in third world countries where the pay is even worse than on cruise ships? I would wager that they all do, and conveniently ignore that reality as long as they benefit from it. Hypocrites!

[Julesben]

These cruise operators are more concerned with paying for hardware and fancy head office wages then the needs of the paying public or the low paid staff.

[Ma Bell]

These cruise operators are more concerned with paying for hardware and fancy head office wages then the needs of the paying public or the low paid staff.

 

Yes, they must be treating you badly. Can't imagine why you would continue booking cruises. Only six this year?

[CI66774]

I guess the bottom line is if you find the pay issue offensive, don't cruise. However, it will be the low paying workers who suffer the most by a downturn in business.

[Project_gal]

Agreed, pay in cash then Celebrity don't know how much they receive. We decide who to give extra too on the service...Only once have we pre paid gratuities and the waiter was awful!

 

If you remove the pre-paid gratuities/auto-gratuities, the people concerned have to hand over all the cash tips they receive. They are only allowed to keep the cash from guests who have paid the basic gratuity. Therefore, if you really wish to help, you leave your gratuities in place and then add cash tips as suggested by Sandancer.

 

I have not read all the responses since the programme aired last night but, quite frankly, I was not greatly surprised by it. I was actually under the impression that lower grade staff on the ships received less than reported before adding the tips and gratuities. It is not the life I would wish to lead but can understand why it is the choice of some who have less opportunities in life. What we can do, as guests on cruise ships, is treat these people with respect, admire them for how they are trying to make the best of the opportunities life has given them and say "thank you" both literally and by tipping appropriately. It is not their fault that the cruise industry uses a tipping/remuneration model which is more familiar to our US cousins than to us. It is this model of paying staff that allows you to cruise at the low price you have paid and you are morally obligated to complete your side of the bargain by at least paying the pre-defined gratuities.

 

What did surprise me is that Celebrity was not suspicious that a UK citizen applied for a job as an assistant waiter. Be honest, how many UK or US citizens have you ever seen working in the MDR? I hope that the repercusions on his fellow workers having to take on extra work when he, presumably, left the ship early after the filming was completed was considered when planning the programme!

 

The concentration on the lack of a written contract of emplyment surprised me. In a 37 year working life, I never once received a written contract of employment and I worked in both the public and private sector and for all sizes of employer. If you check directgov.gov.uk, you will see that in the UK a contract of employment does not need to be in writing. I also did not understand the part about workers paying others to do part of their job. Where are these underemployed people on board ship who are available to do part of someone else's job as well as their own? Or were they paying guests to do their own "dusting"?

 

The one thing that I did learn, if the programme was correct, was that staff do not get any days off as a right. I was aware that they are rewarded with additional days off if they received positive feedback but not that this was the only time off they received. It makes me determined to continue to give appropriate feedback during and after a cruise as well as in the end of cruise form.

 

Sue

[amajaa]

Sorry I haven't time to read every single post as got to get to work, but it just shows the importance of making sure you give as least the recommended amount or more to the staff.

 

The thing that annoyed me was the agencies taking so much money off the people to get them on the ship in the first place and also the fact that Celebrity deducts money from the little they get for uniforms etc.

[Jimmys Chippy]

I fail to see the point of the entire programme which focused on British minimum wage when none of the ships featured are even British! Why would British law or minimum wage requirements have anything to do with these ships???

 

It is also fair to say that the majority of crew do love their jobs and do benefit from pay packets that would be completely out of reach in their own countries. I wonder if the next episode will come to us from a popular hotel somewhere like Indonesia where a percentage of holidaymakers happen to be British and how that will relate to the British minimum wage??!!!

 

Programme was nothing short of total garbage!!

 

Absolutely correct. For those who are critical of the way the crew are paid and saying it wouldn't happen in this country I'd think again. In my work I come in to contact with people who work in rather exclusive rural hotels. At these hotels the employees, mostly Eastern Europeans brought in through agencies, work long hours and get paid the UK minimum wage. The thing is the UK minimum wage wouldn't pay enough for immigrant workers to get lodgings in this area so what the hotel kindly does is let them have use of some run down building in the hotel grounds, for a nice deduction of their wages. So effectively the hotel pays less than minimum wage, the workers live in poor accommodation and the local people can't afford to work at the hotel because the pay wouldn't cover their rent/mortgage.

 

With regards to the wages of the crew members it does come down to tipping as to wether they just make a living or make a nice big bonus, and unfortunately UK cruisers are the biggest skinflints going when it comes to tipping, a fact that should have been mentioned last night.

[CostaSmurfette]

I watched it last night...

 

It was not biased but certainly nothing that I did not know already (from chatting with crews on my trips, its pretty standard stuff so far).

 

The undercover waiter's cabinmate, however, is breaking rules by smoking in the cabin...and his attitude towards Celebrity within the first 30 seconds of opening his mouth would be grounds for discharge from duty. I suspect that he had been pulled up a few times with an attitude problem and has a basic downer on the firm.

 

The hours worked...yep, we know its long hours for little pay...it's been like that since the days of the ocean liners, nothing changed there...however, I do seriously doubt the claim that the room steward is making about having no days off in 6 months...certainly not the case on Costa ships...but then Costa have a full time chaplain on board who organises days off the ship for the crew and Costa pick up the cost. Costa also has several bikes on board for crew to use freely when they want to get off the ship for a few hours.

 

I can now see why Celebrity was peeved by this film....it's not entirely accurate...and as many crew have told me, if they do not want to do the job, they end their contracts early and leave or they do not return when the current contract expires. Many go to other cruise lines...Costa has a regular number of crew who have moved from other lines to them...you're always going to have disgruntled staff, it happens on land, so obviously it will occur on ships too. Shipboard life is not for everyone...just as cruising isn't for everyone.

 

I got the feeling when chatting to crew that the ones who do not last in the job are the ones who seem to think that working on a cruise ship will be glamour and glitz 24/7 I know from the early days at NCLA where they had 3-400 crew walking off the ships from every cruise that many who tried their hand at it were not prepared to work hard. There is no glamour or glitz, its bloody hard graft, long hours working with the public...it can be absolute hell to some people and they do not last in the business for long.

 

The dishwasher featured in the programme gets $670 a month which equals 20,600 Thai Baht...£416...€520...4210 Chinese Yuan...35420 Indian Rupees....so when put into context, ie, using the current exchnage rate for their home countries, the wages are probably significantly more than they would expect to earn at home (in respect to so-called 3rd world countries).

[CABINET]

I also did not understand the part about workers paying others to do part of their job. Where are these underemployed people on board ship who are available to do part of someone else's job as well as their own? Or were they paying guests to do their own "dusting"?

 

 

Sue

 

I thought that too :confused:.

[Esprit]

We will watch the programme tonight when our daughter who works on Celebrity ships can watch it too.

 

One thing I can confirm is that in all the three contracts she has done so far she has never had a full day off and it wasn't such a big deal either. Obviously she had time off and some days were less busy than others. The worst being the debark/embark days.

 

As for the programme, for us it probably wont be very enlightening.

[juggles]

Celebrity are registered in Africa so that they can bypass USA/UK employment rules. I'm shocked that so many of you are cold and uncaring. So it's ok to use slave labour then? Regardless whether $640 equals a sort of wage in the staffs homeland, they work for ten months/12 hours a day without one day off. Most of you are saying that's ok, they're better off than at home. They haven't much of an option, have they? I won't be cruising again. It's disgraceful.

[cruiser87654321]

And how many of these self righteous complainers who are so incensed about what the ship crews are being paid go out and purchase items made in third world countries where the pay is even worse than on cruise ships? I would wager that they all do, and conveniently ignore that reality as long as they benefit from it. Hypocrites!

 

I regularly buy Fairtrade goods, I thought most people now are concerned with the ethics of companies they use or trade with. Seems not.

 

It is not charity. It is a well known custom and practice and just the way pay is handled. Gratuities are added to the passenger's account daily if not paid before departure. It takes a concerted effort to go to guest relations and have them removed. It seems to me that it doesn't matter what you call it, payroll, pay packet, service charge or gratuities, (you say tomato and I say tomato) it all comes out the same unless someone makes the effort to purposely remove them. Do you find that a moral thing to do?

 

You call it custom and practice, I call it charity. They give a level of service but have no control over if, or what, someone pays for that, that is charity to me.

 

Tips should not remove the obligation from an employer to pay a living wage for a job well done.

 

It is not relevant to refer to the economics of their home countries. They are from various parts of the world, and work in International waters, paying them a market wage in line with western standards would not impact a local economy like establishing a factory there and paying the same level of remuneration would.

 

I do not remove my tips as we generally do flexible dining which requires upfront payment, and we also tip in cash. However, that does not negate my acknowledgement and understanding that by doing so we are colluding with this unfair and demeaning practice.

 

What has been the norm is not always the same as what is morally correct. If that was the case Rosa Parks would still be on a separate bus.

[norn iron]

Just watched this show and if anyone has ever considered removing tips then this programme should make them think again.

 

The major omission in last nights programme was the loss of gratuities suffered by employees on cruise ships, caused by British cruisers who go out of their way to avoid paying gratuities. That is worth a TV investigation by itself.

[Twogaterz]

I wonder how many of the Channel 4 producers, directors and reporters have iPhones? Are they going to make a programme about the way that employees are horribly exploited in China by the manufacturers who work for Apple, so we in the West can have fancy smartphones (and yes I have one but don't feel comfortable about the way it will have been made). Sadly exploitation is all around and it still goes on in the UK just as much as on cruise ships. My daughter works in the film/video industry and has worked very hard to get where she has (two notches up the ladder so far) - exploitation is rife with many young people so desperate to work they do it for free or on min wage for very antisocial conditions. It's the same everywhere if you care to scratch the surface. So it's important to ensure we pay our gratuities and provide additional tips for service 'above and beyond'. Maybe people won't complain so much about the 15% added to the bar bills.

[jenny wren]

The major omission in last nights programme was the loss of gratuities suffered by employees on cruise ships, caused by British cruisers who go out of their way to avoid paying gratuities. That is worth a TV investigation by itself.

 

I thought they said that if gratuities were removed then the cruiseline paid the difference so that every crew member got the basic wage?...Why doesn't the cruiseline pay the basic wage in the first place and then tips are what they are meant to be...a bonus for excellent service!!:)

[lysolqn]

The one thing not shown is how cruise lines routinely bind, gag, drug and drag prospective employees from their homes at gunpoint under the cover of darkness and force them into slave labor on cruise ships against their will. Guess that's because anyone who works on a cruise ship does so willingly and in most cases, is happy to have the job - especially those who re-up their contracts over and over again. Of course, it couldn't possibly be that the reporter/producers had a preset agenda and sought out only those onboard who supported it. Nah, couldn't be.

[Adam Coulter]

The one thing not shown is how cruise lines routinely bind, gag, drug and drag prospective employees from their homes at gunpoint under the cover of darkness and force them into slave labor on cruise ships against their will. Guess that's because anyone who works on a cruise ship does so willingly and in most cases, is happy to have the job - especially those who re-up their contracts over and over again. Of course, it couldn't possibly be that the reporter/producers had a preset agenda and sought out only those onboard who supported it. Nah, couldn't be.

 

Read our take on last night's Cruises Undercover programme here: http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/blog/?p=6103

[u2cruiser]

After reading all these posts, I'm more confused than ever. I agree with some aspects of both sides of the debate.

 

Why did the programme choose Celebrity to go undercover with? Why not the cruise industry as a whole? Low budget? Was it convenient for them to board the Eclipse from the UK? Was it a true representation of average gratuities if the passengers were mainly British, which in turn would affect the crew's total monthly pay? Too many anomolies to present this as being entirely indicative of the cruise industry as a whole.

 

I thought the British waiter stuck out like a sore thumb. Surely his colleagues would have noticed him chatting to the undercover passenger, who did a fair amount of noseying around and asking awkward questions of cabin stewards, who you could tell from his manner, didn't really want to answer her questions.

 

I can understand the fatigue the undercover waiter expressed, but it was a new, challenging job with lots to learn, which is exhausting in any new work place, so again, that wasn't a fair representation of regular crew.

 

I'm sure we've all seen crew members getting off ship in port to enjoy themselves. I've heard that they save up/trade their time off to visit ports they really want to. There was great excitement amongst the crew when we approched St Maarten both occasions, different cruise lines. While I believe they don't have full days off, I do believe that they have some negotiation re hours off.

 

I didn't like how, according to the programme, they had no real idea what pay they would end up with until they collected it. Wouldn't you expect deductions such as uniform to be clearly explained beforehand? I also didn't like the fact that compulsory training happened in their own time according to the programme?

 

Guess the non tippers will see this as more reason not to tip now they know the cruise line makes the difference up. The pro tippers will be even more generous to increase the crew bonuses. The bottom line is that if the cruise line has to make up the difference, base cruise prices will have to increase. What none of us really know for sure is how this gratuity is distributed and what happens to personal tips if the auto tips are removed. If the cruise lines became more transparent about this we could all make more informed decisions.

[Esprit]

Read our take on last night's Cruises Undercover programme here: http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/blog/?p=6103

 

An excellent review. Thank you

[odysee]

EU countries that give 8 week paid vacations and 30 hour work weeks look in agast at how these people are treated

quote]

 

 

I have lived and worked in several EU countries, but haven't come across any of these countries with this kind of benefits yet :rolleyes: