The truth about cruise staff working conditions and pay?

[dpryo319]

Working conditions....

 

A blog to read about a crew member on board :

 

http://roryboltoncruise.blogspot.com

 

My boyfriend, Rory, plays piano on Celebrity/RCCL/Azamara...he's currently on the Reflection as we speak, while it's still under construction.

 

Entertainment staff/Cruise Directors have it the best on the ships. Decent pay, decent living space, able to go in public guest areas outside of working hours (housekeeping, servers etc...this is not allowed), able to dine in any of the restaurants on board, and basically have the days off to be a traveler. They are spoiled in that aspect...

 

But..

 

One thing that many didn't mention is the condition of being away. Being away from your family, girlfriends/boyfriends/husbands/wives/fiances, friends, etc. They don't just get to come and see you when ever you want, and communication?? Forget about it! Internet 19 cents or more a min. Phone cards, $20 for 30 minutes. Can't use cell phones...too expensive with the ships towers.

 

It's hard for them, and for the ones back at home. Trust me on that one, it is really tough. I haven't heard from him since he left, no idea where he is, only know that his plane landed in Frankfurt all right....

 

When he gets back from this contract in February, he will have been on ships 13 months out of the last 18 months. Crazy!

 

But, he LOVES it, it's what he does! :) You have to love it to deal with all of the downfalls. Entertaining is his thing, meeting great people, and traveling...it's great.

 

As far as what they have to pay for...there are a few of hidden expenses :

 

1. You have to do a full medical evaluation. These cost upwards of $700 in the U.S.

2. Passports/Visas. They don't pay for this, you do.

3. Baggage. Rory paid $100 to check a second bag on United this week...

4. Many staff have to pay for their flight OUT to the port, luckily Rory is fortunate enough that he didn't!

 

Do what you love, love what you do...that's the motto here! :)

[cruise kitty]

It's too bad that there isn't some magical power to save us all from the so-called "do gooders." So lets put the subject (cruise line working conditions) in proper perspective as carefully explained to me by 2 cruise line employees (a long time waiter and his best friend who is a bartender). Nobody forces anyone to work on a cruise ship! In fact, it is quite difficult (and competitive) to get a job on a modern cruise ship. A majority of the people that work on cruise ships will work multiple contracts and many continue to work in the industry for many years. If they do not like the job (or conditions) they can simply leave after their contract (the cruise line pays their way home) or they could quit at any time (but then they would have to pay their own way home). My cruise employee friend (the waiter) once told me that all he wants from passengers is to be treated with politeness and respect....not with pity :)

 

Hank

 

**Like** :) We don't have as much time on ships as you, but this has been our experience too, we usually pick one bar per cruise as our nightly 'home base' & the bartenders we've spoken to have told us that this job is their ticket to someday managing, owning or operating a bar or nightclub back home. They take great pride in their work & certainly don't have the attitude of indentured servitude. :)

 

Sometimes it seems that some cruisers have a false sense of noblesse oblige that is probably offensive to those working on the ships.

[excitedofharpenden]

I hope some who sees the broadcast will post a detailed review on Cruise Critic. I know that I would appreciate the information. It would also be interesting to me to read any comments from anyone who experienced the asst. waiter who was undercover.

I will be watching it, but having seen other Dispatches programs know what to expect. They are always hard hitting. I'm not sure if this link works. You won't get any video, but there is a comments link to read what others think. I see someone called Ben who hasn't seen the program yet has already commented they remove the tips:rolleyes:

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/articles/home

 

Phil

[Esprit]

 

They also have an active social life 'below-decks'.

 

I admire their work ethic, but I don't feel sorry for them. :):)

 

Not always below decks. On Constellation, Solstice and Silhouette I know for a fact the crew have parties in the Sky lounges up top. All the carpeted areas are covered and the parties begin once the passengers have gone to bed.

So when you see the crew in the morning looking tired. It's not from cleaning the galley or ironing bed linen all night long

[gkny]

My only question is do the cruise companies pay their crew well, excluding entertainment staff or does their salary depend on tips from us. If nobody payed tips would they want to work on a ship.

[momofmeg]

Why do you "pity" them? Do you pity the bank teller who has a degree in engineering? The grocery store manager who has an MBA? The hotel front desk clerk who has an accounting degree? Te husband who spends the weeknights away from his family because he can't find a local job, can' afford to sell his house? Do you tip your grocery bagger / front desk clerk / garbage ollector / hotel cleaner / mailman "so you can get taken care of" ? Yes they work hard but they are not forced to do these jobs. Cruise ship employees get to see the world, put money away, get excellent training and have wonderful career opportunities. They work long shifts and do work hard for months but have long periods of "off" time, tickets to go home etc.

Most love their jobs and i would like to see some of our welfare recipients get off their a$$es and take advantage of the many opportunities that are out there with the cruise lines.

no one is diputing their efforts, but a pity party is really not necessary.

 

Good point. My niece graduated college 2 and half years ago and received a bachelor's in I think she said it was Criminal Science? Something like that? She wants to work in law enforcement on gathering and running tests on crime scene evidence. She is still working as a nanny as she did in college. She can't even break into the field. She has even tried getting a job as a jailer and was unable. Her plan was if she got that job to work toward her Masters on the side which will cost $20,000 to finish. She is still working toward it bit by bit, but because of the expense it is taking considerable time as she does not make that well. My sis can't help her as she has 3 more to put through college and the deal she and their father made with all their children was they would pay for their bachelor's, anything else the kids are on their own.

 

My daughter also does not work in the computer technology field in which she has 2 degrees. When she graduated, all companies wanted the degrees she has PLUS 5 years work experience. She gave up trying after a couple of years and works as a para-professional in our county school system. She gave up because she needed the health insurance and had gotten too old to stay on her father's policy. (the Obama law did not go in effect until after she was 26-hubby's company was age 23-she is 28) She has serious health issues and cannot forgo health insurance as many do in their twenties/thirties.

 

I also agree as most have said on this thread that these people do not deserve our pity but they do deserve our respect. We need not treat them as second class citizens and we should remember that we who spent thousands on our vacation can afford to give a few extra dollars to those who went beyond their duty in making our trip enjoyable-even if we prepay our tips.

[A Sixth?]

While working for Uncle Sam Cruise Lines, I managed to make it home five and a half months AFTER the birth of my second child. :eek:......

 

Did you enjoy sailing with Uncle Sam? :D Those old paddle wheels are fake but I still love them. :o

 

[mrsdoc3]

I do pity them, a lot of the people who serve us are very well educated people, for example we have had accountants, teachers, engineers serving us. why??? because they can't get a decent job in their own countries. and to think waiting on tables etc working very long hours can give them more money than doing the jobs they are trained to do is very disheartening for them. One thing I admire them for is they work away from home to try and educate their own families so they can have the oppotunity for a better life. Asfor seeing the world, they dont get the chance to get off the ship and explore many places, some of them need to pay for a visa to get off the ship in some countries too.

 

Any why do you suppose they can't get jobs in their own countries? Is it Celebrity's fault? Certainly not. It is more than likely their government's fault. Dictators, corrupt politicians, socialistic policies all make it difficult for job growth.

[CI66774]

As the girlfriend to the entertainer said in her post, every job has a downside and you have to weigh the pros and cons. Entertainers expect to be away from family - that's was the industry is all about - going out and touring, etc. I used to be a flight attendant (many, many years ago) and was away from family and friends all the time. I chose that job and really liked it until I decided to go to law school.

 

The bottom line is - it's all about choice and, sometimes, necessity. We each make these decisions based upon our own personal circumstances. I respect whatever choice people make (as long as it's no sitting on their butts getting Welfare!!!).

[willow148]

According to this article from travelweekly.co.uk, the programme which is the subject of this thread includes filming aboard the Celebrity Eclipse.

 

Celebrity Cruises saddened over 'biased' documentary

 

Regards,

John.

 

From the article:

"Channel 4's investigative programme Dispatches sent an undercover reporter on board a Celebrity Cruises ship to conduct an expose on the cruise industry."

 

This says it all, in my opinion - they didn't do it to 'investigate' cruise ship conditions, ie find out what's really going on - they did it as an expose, ie they'd already decided things were not good before they started - no doubt they will have looked for 'evidence' to support their view. I don't normally watch these kinds of programs, they're usually so biased it's a joke, but I'll watch this one just to see whether they actually come up with anything.

[Esprit]

Any why do you suppose they can't get jobs in their own countries? Is it Celebrity's fault? Certainly not. It is more than likely their government's fault. Dictators, corrupt politicians, socialistic policies all make it difficult for job growth.

 

Exactly why our DD couldn't get a job after graduating at University here in the UK. Celebrity offered her a chance and she siezed it.

[Hawaiidan]

For a long time, many of us, world wide have been told that we have to go to college or university. Today many are working for masters degrees

But to what productive end... Thousand upon thousands of students are turned out into a saturated job market. Thousands too have taken degrees or study programs in fields that sounded interesting, but in which they had no experience

 

Some degrees sound good but have little demand or need. I know of a girl who studied 8 years to get a master degree in international relations, having no experience or having never interned in the field. Today she is a waitress in a bar.

 

 

There is an old joke that goes " what does the graduate in liberal arts say to the science/engineering graduate? "Do you want something to drink with your burger"

 

Education is fine for some but not all. Having a degree in education or history will not get you a job. Many figure this out after spending years in gettting a special degree that is useless because of demand. Education while asthetic , dosent put beans on the table.

 

They discovered that in essence they did not need all that education. and good old jobs or trades that have good pay and high demand. There are a lot of aerospace engineers and former teachers working as salesmen in Lowes or Home Depot or construction workers. They caught on slow but good.

 

So when a former university graduate serves me a drink. or fixes my sink.. I smile because he found out that education can be a means to an end... its not a guarantee or an end in it's self..

 

Cruise ship employees had enough smarts to recognize this and do what they enjoy and has a rewarding future. I dont pity them one bit. I pity the systems anlyst who would rather be life guard at the beach

[johhnnyt]

I talk to a lot of the crew onboard, and like many mentioned they do work long hours compared to Western standards, but for most I would think that's their choice. Few I've talked to dislike it. I've met teachers from Russia as waitresses, an economist from the Czech republic as a room steward, and college stsuds taking a break from studies who just wanted the chance to travel. After a contract they can choose to renew or not

I remember reading a few years back a cruise line was started in Hawaii and lasted only a few years as it had an All American staff, who wouldn't put up with the long hours, and having to "wait" on passengers that expected their service like on International cruise line standards

Spent 6 years in the Navy on submarines and at the end of that term , I though the long hours and low pay wasn't for me and I left, but like some of the folks that serve on cruise ships, it fulfilled my needs at the time.

We forget sometimes in the Western world how good we have it. I remember 7/8 years ago being in Malaysia and talking to my friend that worked as a manager for Gillette (the razor company) over there. He told me his norm was 12 hours a day 5 days a week, I said "thats cool at least you get some overtime", he said no that was their normal work week.

I'm sure the folks in the Chinese factories making Ipads/Imacs aren't working 8 hours/day, 40 hours a week either

[navyrotorhead]

Did you enjoy sailing with Uncle Sam? :D Those old paddle wheels are fake but I still love them. :o

 

 

I think that's me in between the "Hornets" and the "Seahawks" on deck! :p

 

If you would have told me 20 years ago that my 96,000 ton Nimitz Class carrier would soon be considered SMALL in comparison to a 220,000 ton Oasis/Allure Class Cruise Ship, I would have (smugly) lost every dime I ever made on a bet to the contrary! :rolleyes:

 

Since Mr Branson and Virgin Galactic are set to start hauling people into suborbital space next year, I would happily loose another bet today that SpaceX and Bigelow Aerospace, WILL NEVER have regular flights to tourist space stations/hotels in orbit in the next 10-20 years. :confused: (shades of Kubrick's 2001!)

[anandaindonesia]

Dispatches (Channel4 UK) will air on Oct 1st "Cruises Undercover : The Truth Below Deck", featuring Tazeen Ahmad traveling as a cruise ship passenger and - as an assistant waiter!

More here http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-111/episode-4

 

Meanwhile, Celebrity has said that it is saddened by the programme which it fears will be "biased and unbalanced".

More here http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=41753

 

Life is a multi faceted thing.... :p

[tercar]

A few comments on some of the earlier posts -

 

1. Crew do not pay for visas for countries the ship visits. The cruiseline does.

2. Tips are divided among a particular group of crew (stewards, waiters, head waiters). Behind the scenes crew are paid a wage and are not part of the tips pool.

3. On Princess (sorry I don't know about Celebrity) all crew have to fill in a time sheet every day showing the hours they worked and the hours of rest. There is a maximum number of hours in any one day and a maximum for a week. Yes - these are longer hours than usually worked in Australia and (I am sure) in USA or the UK.

4. Crew have a few other benefits including free health care on the ship. They also have an active social life 'below-decks'.

 

I admire their work ethic, but I don't feel sorry for them. :):)

Sorry to disagree, however I have spoken to several members of staff and they have informed me it is not WORTH paying for a visa because they have such a short period of time off to visit anywhere, for example if anything of interest is too far away. most of the staff DONT get whole days off.

[TLCOhio]

I talk to a lot of the crew onboard, and like many mentioned they do work long hours compared to Western standards, but for most I would think that's their choice. Few I've talked to dislike it. I've met teachers from Russia as waitresses, an economist from the Czech republic as a room steward, and college stsuds taking a break from studies who just wanted the chance to travel. After a contract they can choose to renew or not I remember reading a few years back a cruise line was started in Hawaii and lasted only a few years as it had an All American staff, who wouldn't put up with the long hours, and having to "wait" on passengers that expected their service like on International cruise line standards. Spent 6 years in the Navy on submarines and at the end of that term , I though the long hours and low pay wasn't for me and I left, but like some of the folks that serve on cruise ships, it fulfilled my needs at the time. We forget sometimes in the Western world how good we have it. I remember 7/8 years ago being in Malaysia and talking to my friend that worked as a manager for Gillette (the razor company) over there. He told me his norm was 12 hours a day 5 days a week, I said "thats cool at least you get some overtime", he said no that was their normal work week. I'm sure the folks in the Chinese factories making Ipads/Imacs aren't working 8 hours/day, 40 hours a week either

 

Many excellent points are noted in your thoughtful and detailed posting above. I remember touring the big Navy aircraft carrier, USS Theodore Roosevelt. One of the crew members, bunked three high on this then newest ship in the Navy, noted that he liked being busy, busy on this ship as there was limited "personal space" and options with your free time. The hours can be long if working on a cruise ship, but . . . much depends for how you like dealing and interacting with people. If you like people, that can be a PLUS for cruise ship work.

 

I have enjoyed chatting with the staff on these cruises. It is an interesting learning experience to know more on them and about different cultures and nations. Also, I liked the comments on how some people spends years and years in college and in some cases it does not connect with a real job in that field. Degrees in "international relations" sound fun and interesting, but if not properly focused, they can be "empty prizes". My son got a degree in "Peace and Global Studies", but fortunately connected on doing computer/technology work. Otherwise, he might be under or unemployed.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 104,795 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[Mcscotty]

EU countries that give 8 week paid vacations and 30 hour work weeks

 

Wow which EU countries do that, I'm moving :)

 

In the clip I saw I though it looked like a Celebrity dining room, I'll be very interested to watch it as it's my cruiseline of choice right now. I'm curious to see the crew areas etc, but there is no doubt in my mind it will be very negative and I'll take it with a pinch of salt. That seems the way of the world now, tv that makes people look bad or stupid or treating each other badly, seems the only way to get ratings.

 

As many have already said, the pay and conditions can't be bad or people wouldn't sign up year on year.

[Sinppu]

I know many casino dealers who have worked on cruise ships. Some liked it a lot, some liked it and some didn't.

 

That's really enlightening, don't you think? :rolleyes:;)

 

Wow which EU countries do that, I'm moving :)

 

Don't, they are bankrupt because of it :D

[CI66774]

To Hawaiidan:

 

Now do you know why the EU is in shambles!?!?! May have something to do with those 30 hour work weeks and 8 week vacations!

[CaptData]

Also don't forget that some of them have advance to various positions IE started out as Hair Dress and is now in charge of Hotel Operation on Oasis of the Seas. It took 18 years but she did it. Yes, she said that at times it was very hard but she said it was worth it. She also has enough in the bank to buy a nice house in the USA outright. She needs to work a few more years to get full retirement benefits.

 

As in a job only a few will make it to the top tiers in any company (there is only on CEO for example but several vice-presidents of operation, hotels, food etc.) There are several top positions on each ship Captain, Staff Captain, Chief Engineer, Head Chef, CD, Hotel Manager, Chief Bar Tender, Chief Housekeeper, Head Ma it'd. These positions takes years to get to sometimes 15-20 years. Everyone starts somewhere usually down low like an ASST waiter, asst Cabin Attendant, cook/bottle washer etc.

 

At the bottom you have longer hours and harder physical work until you get to the top. Everyone has an equal chance to make it depending on their reviews by both their supervisors and their clients (you). If you give bad reviews/complainants they will most likely be fired long before they reach a good level (like in any job) Also those with educations will get the better jobs (Front Desk, engineering jobs etc).

[jacketwatch]

I talk to a lot of the crew onboard, and like many mentioned they do work long hours compared to Western standards, but for most I would think that's their choice. Few I've talked to dislike it. I've met teachers from Russia as waitresses, an economist from the Czech republic as a room steward, and college stsuds taking a break from studies who just wanted the chance to travel. After a contract they can choose to renew or not

I remember reading a few years back a cruise line was started in Hawaii and lasted only a few years as it had an All American staff, who wouldn't put up with the long hours, and having to "wait" on passengers that expected their service like on International cruise line standards

Spent 6 years in the Navy on submarines and at the end of that term , I though the long hours and low pay wasn't for me and I left, but like some of the folks that serve on cruise ships, it fulfilled my needs at the time.

We forget sometimes in the Western world how good we have it. I remember 7/8 years ago being in Malaysia and talking to my friend that worked as a manager for Gillette (the razor company) over there. He told me his norm was 12 hours a day 5 days a week, I said "thats cool at least you get some overtime", he said no that was their normal work week.

I'm sure the folks in the Chinese factories making Ipads/Imacs aren't working 8 hours/day, 40 hours a week either

 

Those ships you mention were the "pride" ships in the NCL line and I too read about the all-American crews and how it didn't work out for the reasons you mentioned. IIRC they had three "pride" ships and now are down to one.

 

I recently viewed the captured WWII German sub the U-505 at the museum of S+I in Chicago. Man that had to have been rough. temps ranged from 95-120 Fin the sub, the men had no water for washing or bathing, just for cooking and drinking and the bunks were constantly in use and were never clean. when one guy got up someone else laid down. I can't imagine how the endured this. How does this compare to your experience on a modern sub?

 

BTW by the wars end German submariners had a 70% casulty rate. :(

[Quo Vadis?]

Sorry to disagree, however I have spoken to several members of staff and they have informed me it is not WORTH paying for a visa because they have such a short period of time off to visit anywhere, for example if anything of interest is too far away. most of the staff DONT get whole days off.

 

I was under the impression that everyone required a visa when a ship calls at a port. For example if a ship sails to Brazil, you are not allowed to board for a cruise to Brazil without a visa even if you had no intention of going ashore.... does this vary by country?

[Suzy Smith]

I wonder why so many posters have rushed to the cruise line's defence or rubbished the programme before it has even been shown? I am looking forward to seeing it. TV programmes may put their own spin on a particular subject, but I am sure most people are bright enough to read between the lines - and it may actually be enlightening. I have often read "facts" on CC about staff pay that I find hard to believe, e.g. their basic pay is $50 a month; they are not allowed to keep cash tips unless the passenger has paid the auto tips; etc, etc, and the Dispatches programme may answer some of my questions.

 

It will be interesting to see what's going to be revealed that is causing press releases from the cruise company ahead of the broadcast. Celebrity say, "If we discover that anyone within the company or at the hiring or placement agencies we work with violates our procedures and requirements, we will take swift corrective actions." This suggests the programme is not just about low levels of pay.

 

We shall see on Monday!!

[moswinner]

I know from what I've read that the "Pay" is very low, However, If a cabin steward has 20 cabins to service on a 10 day cruise and each cabin gives an average of £50 tip (£2.50 per person per day for two in a cabin) That's £1000. not bad for two weeks work with all board and lodgings included. Ok I'm not sure how many cabins one steward has to service it could be more, it could be less.:confused:Maybe we will find out with the Channel 4 programme.