SAS Risky?

[Fattony]

My wife wants to attend a conference in Rotterdam before a cruise departing Copenhagen the evening of June 25. Conference ends the 25th, but we'd leave the night of the 24th to take a train to Amsterdam and fly to Copenhagen. SAS currently showing by far the cheapest prices, and with a fight time of 8:20 pm on June 24, so we wouldn't have to fly into Copenhagen the day of the cruise (even though it's a short flight and cruise doesn't depart until 6 p.m., we'd rather avoid that). Now reading reports about the dire financial conditon of SAS. I know many U.S. airlines have gone through bankruptcy and kept flying (e.g., AA), but is SAS's sitaution more risky? SAS showing $88 and next cheapest evening flight is Air Baltic, costing $94Estonian Air, and that requires an overnight in Riga, so wouldn't get into Copenhagen until the next morning. Other choices seem to be $300 and up.

 

If we didn't have the conference, we'd take the train, but that would mean losing an additional day of the conference unless we take a sleeper with at least one change of trains, arriving in copenhagen at 10 a.m. the day of the cruise.

[Globaliser]

Now reading reports about the dire financial conditon of SAS. I know many U.S. airlines have gone through bankruptcy and kept flying (e.g., AA), but is SAS's sitaution more risky?

Yes, it is. Outside the US, "bankruptcy" usually = "out of business".

[Desdichado62]

...

 

SAS is as you know in a very tough situation.

 

They have initiated a cost saving program to try and avoid going bankrupt.

They will sell some of their subsidiary companies, they have sent a

request to the unions (a total of 40+ unions in three countries) about staff taking pay cuts.

I don't remember when they had to reply but its quite soon.

 

For more info read this thread at airliners.net they know allot more then me.

[Fattony]

Thanks. Looks like I'll research alternatives, including an earlier flight out of Amsterdam, maybe Norwegian Airlines, or going to Brussels to take Brussels Air (both with strict baggage limitations, I realize). Or overngiht train, though my first choice wouldn't be to arrive in Copenhagen the day of the cruise (even with several hours between the two). The Air Baltic option requiring an overnight in Riga does not sound appealing, not for lack of charms in Riga, but because it would arrive 10 hours before the cruise (with two flights total involved).

 

Many years ago, I had tickets to fly from Washington DC to LA on Pan Am for Xmas, and I told my folks that Pan Am was having problems but I didn't think the flight was in danger. By the time the letter got to them, a few days before I was due to deprt, Pan Am had ceased operations (fortuantely, Delta honored my ticket, and with a better itinerary).

[Alex71]

I can't imagine SAS will shut completely down. Swiss is still flying, as is Austrian, Sabena (now Brussels Air), Alitalia, Iberia and all the other former flag carriers.

[joyride21]

Good grief, between this thread and the one that pointed out Catherine Palace is closed on Tuesday's, I seem to have really dropped the ball on planning for my next cruise. I got what I thought was a fabulous deal on airfare with SAS...guess that won't do me much good if they cease operations. Time to research backup plans!

[Globaliser]

I can't imagine SAS will shut completely down. Swiss is still flying, as is Austrian, Sabena (now Brussels Air), Alitalia, Iberia and all the other former flag carriers.

That's a pretty mixed bag of airlines, with different histories.

 

For example, Swiss used to be called Crossair and is a different airline from the former Swissair, which went under completely. Similarly, Sabena went under completely. The current Brussels Airlines is a different airline. In similar vein, Malev also went under - but in this case without being replaced in any form.

 

At the other extreme, Iberia hasn't been bankrupt so is hardly in the same category as Swissair, Sabena or Malev.

 

Even if some of the SAS routes and capacity are taken over by someone else, one continuing big risk for anyone planning time-critical travel a long time in advance is that there could be major changes in routes and schedules for the travel that you actually need to do. It wouldn't be so bad if it were an optional trip or if it really didn't matter too much if you had to change your plans later to fit the airline. But when your ship's going to sail on a fixed date, you don't have that luxury. I would be as concerned by this as by the (very real) prospect that SAS might not exist any more by then.

[Alaskanb]

Good grief, between this thread and the one that pointed out Catherine Palace is closed on Tuesday's, I seem to have really dropped the ball on planning for my next cruise. I got what I thought was a fabulous deal on airfare with SAS...guess that won't do me much good if they cease operations. Time to research backup plans!

We are using SAS from the UK (MAN) to Copenhagen--hopefully we will not be left hanging at the last minute to scramble for flights :(

I'm expecting flight changes on American too!

[blonde1981]

Good grief, between this thread and the one that pointed out Catherine Palace is closed on Tuesday's, I seem to have really dropped the ball on planning for my next cruise. I got what I thought was a fabulous deal on airfare with SAS...guess that won't do me much good if they cease operations. Time to research backup plans!

 

I think in the US they partner up with United. They might just take over the flight it SAS were to go under but I would hope it wouldn't.

[Alex71]

That's a pretty mixed bag of airlines, with different histories.

 

For example, Swiss used to be called Crossair and is a different airline from the former Swissair, which went under completely. Similarly, Sabena went under completely. The current Brussels Airlines is a different airline. In similar vein, Malev also went under - but in this case without being replaced in any form.

 

At the other extreme, Iberia hasn't been bankrupt so is hardly in the same category as Swissair, Sabena or Malev.

 

Even if some of the SAS routes and capacity are taken over by someone else, one continuing big risk for anyone planning time-critical travel a long time in advance is that there could be major changes in routes and schedules for the travel that you actually need to do. It wouldn't be so bad if it were an optional trip or if it really didn't matter too much if you had to change your plans later to fit the airline. But when your ship's going to sail on a fixed date, you don't have that luxury. I would be as concerned by this as by the (very real) prospect that SAS might not exist any more by then.

 

Hadn't thought of the Malev example. They of course did shut down over night and tickets became invalid.

 

I still don't think the Scandinavian governments would let SAS go completely under. Also, SAS is part of the Star Alliance and there repeatedly is news about Lufthansa being interested in SAS, so this looks like a possibility.

 

So while I think it's 99.99 percent certain that SLS will still be flying in a year from now, I guess someone who wanted the remaining 0.01 percent certainty would have to look elsewhere. Maybe there's a way to book the SAS flight as code share through another Star Alliance airline.

[Fattony]

An airline I hadn't heard of, Norwegian Airlines, which didn't appear with Expedia, seems to have the best total price from Amsterdam to Copenhagen that would not require a layover. They seem to be a budget airline, but price is a bit less than fying on Brussels Air out of Brussels and would require a shorter train ride to get to the airport from Rotterdam. Will look for more reviews. And haven't discarded the idea of SAS yet.

[north-bound]

Norwegian Airlines is one of the reasons why SAS is having trouble. I havn't tried them yet but have booked Norwegian from Las Palmas to Stockholm to get home after my cruise on Silver Wind in February.

[Desdichado62]

Norwegian (or Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY/NAX) not Norwegian Airlines)

will also start operating long haul flight from outside of Europe.

[Globaliser]

I still don't think the Scandinavian governments would let SAS go completely under. Also, SAS is part of the Star Alliance and there repeatedly is news about Lufthansa being interested in SAS, so this looks like a possibility.

AIUI, it's more likely that Sweden would save or extract its part of SAS than that the other governments would.

 

Lufthansa's interest would itself be interesting. SAS has been a financial basket case for years. Lufthansa is already struggling to try to keep Austrian afloat, it lost a huge amount on bmi (and some reports suggest that ultimately it had to pay IAG to take over bmi), and I would therefore be surprised if Lufthansa were enthusiastic about taking on SAS at this time.

 

Membership of the Star Alliance in itself means relatively little. Many airlines have fallen out of these alliances when they've gone out of business. If the airline's business doesn't make financial sense, nobody will rescue it even if it is an alliance member.

 

I agree that it's more likely than not that some parts of SAS will still be going in a year's time, although personally I wouldn't be as optimistic as you are. There has already been a real chance that it could have shut down on Monday 12 November.

[Alaskanb]

Globaliser: Would you please keep us updated on the status of SAS as I have not seen any news on it. My flight options for next June from MAN-CPH are EasyJet or SAS for direct flights and BA for a quite expensive and lengthy-time route via LHR. I am ticketed on SAS .....no charge for bags....

Thanks.

[Danish viking]

There should be a solution today and most commentators on danish tv are optimistic (or should I say hopetimistic).

 

But there should be a solution today and let me remind you that SAS had a net profit of 600 million DKK the last quarter its just a case of SAS not being allowed to count the pension fund in its total cash flow so now they need to find 2,9 billion DKK.

 

The Scandinavian governments has been said ok to make a warranty of the loan but SAS needs to spend less money anyway.

 

They are now negotiating with around 40 teamsters in 3 countries but its only 8 that are important, the pilots union and the cabin crews union, what the 2 others are I don't know.

 

My English is a bit rusty when talking about economical terms but I hope that you can understand it anyway or else just ask. :-D

[Danish viking]

The latest is that the cabin crew is positive and the pilots are somewhat also but SAS wants more sacrifices from the pilot.

[Al_Frescoe]

Norwegian Airlines is one of the reasons why SAS is having trouble. I havn't tried them yet but have booked Norwegian from Las Palmas to Stockholm to get home after my cruise on Silver Wind in February.

 

Just a word about Norwegian Airlines ... I have used them twice and I really like them. They even offer free wifi on most of their flights.

 

I really hope SAS stays in the air.

 

Al

[Ultima Thule]

Situation looking very grim right now.

Problems in the negotiations. No solution in sight.

All planes have been ordered to fill up their fuel tanks so they will be able to return home in case of bankruptcy.

[Danish viking]

The pilots have offered a 10 % decrease in salery and 15 % increase in productivity (whatever that means) so I hope its enough.

[Alaskanb]

The pilots have offered a 10 % decrease in salery and 15 % increase in productivity (whatever that means) so I hope its enough.

Me too! Thanks for keeping us updated :)

[dogs4fun]

Situation looking very grim right now.

Problems in the negotiations. No solution in sight.

All planes have been ordered to fill up their fuel tanks so they will be able to return home in case of bankruptcy.

Wow! Thanks for this information. We flew SAS just last year and our flight from IAD to CPH was great ... I had no idea that SAS was in such dire financial straits. Really hope that they survive.

[Alaskanb]

This is Swedish news in English

http://www.thelocal.se/44486/20121118/

 

Wall Street Journal article from today http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578126852651234678.html

[Ultima Thule]

Situation looks a bit brighter this morning.

Six out of eight unions have agreed to the new cost-savings plan.

Danish and Norwegian cabin attendants are still negotiating.

[Danish viking]

As far as I can understand on the danish newspapers a deal has been made.

 

But as long as Norwegian and other companies are based in Cayman Islands and a ignoring exsisting minimum wages and what not then a teamster controlled company like SAS will have a hard time competing with the others.