Century News is Out!

[benjamins]

So I'm confused... you say that there are more intimate mass market options like HAL and Oceania, yet you fear the industry is all headed down the same path?

 

HAL's Statendam class ships were built from 1992-1996. HAL's latest ships are 86,000 tons. HAL's clientele for years said they enjoyed HAL because of their midsize ships. Costa ships are now designed by Farcus, Carnival's designer, they use the same hulls to create ships for different lines resulting in the same sizes for the ships. Cunard is run by Princess. There's lots of consolidation and homogenization in the cruise product for Carnival owned mass market lines. And there's some at RCI for Celebrity.

 

Oceania is not a mass market line. Tim Rubacky, an executive at Oceania who is very critical of Celebrity, said the line was made because he was hearing from pax that HAL and Celebrity were not meeting the needs of the premium passenger. Princess no longer calls itself premium. Celebrity over and over calls itself premium but in some core ways, it isn't. Tim also feels like I do about the Millennium class of ships.

 

Can you please explain where the lowest common denominator comes in with regards to Celebrity's refurbishment plans for Century? I don't see how adding balconies, a handful of cabins, and many new and expanded *included* dining options is so terrible, especially considering that Celebrity took the care to specifically mention in the press release that the Grand Restaurant would remain as she does today.

 

They are adding live music to the Cova café... meaning there's a new dancing venue, which if I recall correctly you found the M Class to be lacking. Michael's Club remains. And another new outdoor dancing venue is being added. How is that so awful? I don't see it.

 

 

Royal Caribbean didn't get where it is today by misreading the market. Something tells me they aren't going to screw up with Century, either.

 

What is the one thing that people associate with Celebrity. One thing? Great food. That's what the line is supposed to be about. When people sailed the Horizon, Zenith, Meridian, sailed the line for food, service, ambiance, and a mature, restrained feel.

 

What people don't like about Celebrity under RCI is a perceived decline in the quality of the food, the quality of the service, the quality of the care in the ships. These core things are what concerns me.

 

Common lowest denominator is trying to wow people, trying to keep things as trendy as possible. They are not addressing quality of what defines their product, they are trying to attract people to the ship based on features, not quality. What about the Century's beds and bedding? What about the bum engine? Some basic things needed addressing.

 

Cova will not be a dance venue, it isn't on any Celebrity ship. Century has 3 dance venues, the Crystal room, Rendezvous lounge (which I think she be refurbished), and Hemispheres.

 

We've discussed the Century. Maybe these alterations are acceptable, maybe not. But I have more respect, at least so far, for P&O, than I do for Celebrity. They have the Oriana, built in 1995, and realize it is a special ship. British pax don't seem so obsessed with fiddling with a modern classic. I think the Oriana, Deutschland, Century, and a few other ships built in the 1990s are ships deserving to be treated with the utmost care when thinking of "upgrading" them. The Crystal Symphony, built in 1996, was upgraded in an appropriate, respectful way IMO.

 

One last thing: we also have to keep in mind that cruising today is so much more affordable than it was in the Chandris days. Many times passengers pay less for a balcony stateroom than they did for an inside or outside in the past. Are you willing to pay $2000 for a week in the Caribbean in an inside cabin so you can revert to good 'ole days?

 

Quality isn't about one age vs. another. You can call Chandris the good ole days, I don't. He mismanaged the business end of the company. I want all ends working well, including maintaining standards through the years at a fair price. I don't consider ultracheap prices for so-called premium lines a good thing. What other industry has premium lines that cost less than lower-rung lines? It's a contradiction.

[benjamins]

jsea,

 

Essentially, I think Celebrity should not try to be everything to everyone. I think they should aim for a more discerning element of the mass market and address the core product while growing the product naturally.

[jsea]

I want all ends working well, including maintaining standards through the years at a fair price. I don't consider ultracheap prices for so-called premium lines a good thing. What other industry has premium lines that cost less than lower-rung lines? It's a contradiction.

I hear what you're saying, but, honestly, are you willing to pay $2000 for a week in the Caribbean? I don't think what you're asking for is practical. You want a custom-fit Celebrity (to your desires), with minimal to no 'trendy' features which bring Celebrity the money it needs to offer lower pricing, while at a 'fair' price. What is a 'fair' price to you for a week in the Caribbean, with good food, etc.?

 

 

Essentially, I think Celebrity should not try to be everything to everyone. I think they should aim for a more discerning element of the mass market and address the core product while growing the product naturally.

Again, I understand what you're saying, but I fail to see how Celebrity is trying to be everything to everyone. Can you explain that to me? It really seems to me that the only changes you will find acceptable are to the food and things passengers cannot see (aside from minimal furnishing changes). Celebrity cannot afford to do that without finding alternate sources of revenue. You are deluding yourself if you think Celebrity is going to shrink down to something it used to be. Celebrity, while being a step above others, is a mass market line and it isn't going to return to the past.

 

Respectfully, why subject yourself to the pain that this is obviously causing? Why not sail Oceania or P&O, lines which, according to you, are doing it right?

[barbon2]

Mel (Parnami), Don and to all others who are from way back...........

I cannot believe that two people would have such a HEATED argurment in regard to the Century............:)

I cannot imagine this happening on these boards.

Barb

[Sky Sweet]

Obviously I can't speak for Benjamin, but I would like to share my opinion why I think it will be a big mistake if Celebrity should decide to be all things to all people. My husband and I loved our cruise on the Mercury to the Mexican Riviera this past January/February, but we met a few people during open seating at lunch one day, who verbalized that they would never sail Celebrity again. When I asked why, they responded that they thought Carnival was a lot more fun and gave specific examples of why they felt that way. However, if Celebrity tried to implement similar activities, my husband and I would look for another cruise line. In short, different people have different ideas of what constitutes a good cruise and it is impossible to please everyone. Therefore, in my humble opinion, Celebrity should decide what segment of the market they are trying to attract and strive to create an onboard ambiance with that in mind.

[benjamins]

I hear what you're saying, but, honestly, are you willing to pay $2000 for a week in the Caribbean? I don't think what you're asking for is practical. You want a custom-fit Celebrity (to your desires), with minimal to no 'trendy' features which bring Celebrity the money it needs to offer lower pricing, while at a 'fair' price. What is a 'fair' price to you for a week in the Caribbean, with good food, etc.?

 

Celebrity defines themselves. I think I read somewhere that they target homes with household incomes over $100,000. Celebrity's and HAL's prices should be more than RCI/Carnival/NCL and they aren't.

 

Again, I understand what you're saying, but I fail to see how Celebrity is trying to be everything to everyone. Can you explain that to me? It really seems to me that the only changes you will find acceptable are to the food and things passengers cannot see (aside from minimal furnishing changes). Celebrity cannot afford to do that without finding alternate sources of revenue. You are deluding yourself if you think Celebrity is going to shrink down to something it used to be. Celebrity, while being a step above others, is a mass market line and it isn't going to return to the past.

 

Respectfully, why subject yourself to the pain that this is obviously causing? Why not sail Oceania or P&O, lines which, according to you, are doing it right?

 

I said pretty clearly I see Celebrity serving a more discerning part of the mass market and that the mass market is not monolithic. That's my view of the mass market. I'll say this: Celebrity's market is probably not as large as its fleet.

 

In previous posts I said the Century could use the following fixes: upgrade the Rendezvous, library, card room, lido, and every stateroom starting with the bedding and bedspreads. I was 100 percent behind the changes made in the Zenith in the 1999 refurb. So to say I'm not interested in refurbishing Celebrity ships is inaccurate.

 

Regarding tailoring Celebrity to my tastes, my cruise product would differ greatly from Celebrity. This isn't about me, it is the age-old argument of money vs. quality, and debating what is choice, what are improvements, what's popular vs. what's distinguished, valuing things of various ages.

 

While seeing something some of us think is special being tampered with isn't fun, cruising is just a hobby for me, not my passion.

[dkjretired]

Mel (Parnami), Don and to all others who are from way back...........

I cannot believe that two people would have such a HEATED argurment in regard to the Century............:)

I cannot imagine this happening on these boards.

Barb

 

Remember fondly the good ole days

[benjamins]

Obviously I can't speak for Benjamin... different people have different ideas of what constitutes a good cruise and it is impossible to please everyone. Therefore, in my humble opinion, Celebrity should decide what segment of the market they are trying to attract and strive to create an onboard ambiance with that in mind.

 

That's it. Well stated.

[PARNAMI]

Mel (Parnami), Don and to all others who are from way back...........

I cannot believe that two people would have such a HEATED argurment in regard to the Century............:)

I cannot imagine this happening on these boards.

Barb

 

Hi Barb!

I wasn't aware of a heated argument. I thought we were discussing the upcoming changes to Century from a couple of different perspectives, both by fans and those who aren't, with eyes towards whether the alterations would alter our opinions. I'm optimistic it will change mine, though, at this point, it's just a guesswork as we try to visualize the changes as indicated in the release. Time will tell, but as always, it's fun to speculate. For the people currently, who like this ship; the final result may leave them wanting. Unfortunately for them, they're not a large enough market segment for the ship, [or line,] to be profitable.

Eventually, Celebrity has to figure out it's niche. So far, they've tried several approaches to market segments and continue to operate in the RED. That's got to end sometime! There are rumors that Celebrity could be sold..given the right offer. I'd hate to see that happen because I think RCCL needs a line like it..in order to compete, somewhat, with Carnival's dominance of the industry. Is it now on the path toward black ink? I hope so!

[jsea]

Celebrity defines themselves. I think I read somewhere that they target homes with household incomes over $100,000. Celebrity's and HAL's prices should be more than RCI/Carnival/NCL and they aren't.

Avoiding the question I see... I'll assume, therefore, that you aren't willing to pay $2000 for a week in the Caribbean.

 

Other than that, thanks for all your replies to my never-ending queries. For now, no more grilling from me. However, I am going to seek your opinion in about a year when we will see Century post-refurbishment.

 

 

Unfortunately for them, they're not a large enough market segment for the ship, [or line,] to be profitable.

That is the truth here. Princess loyalists went through the same pain many years ago as the Seawitch became more and more mass market. Even though I do not see the same thing happening to Celebrity, RCI obviously is not positioning the line to be a small-ship, small-fleet company. As they have clearly said for a while now, Celebrity offers a 'taste of luxury'. Not your Radisson or Silversea or even Oceania but certainly not Carnival or Princess, either. If the food is really so terrible that will eventually be worked out as well. But I have to say, cruise line offerings are pretty much glorified banquet food. Crystal, Princess, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean... it's all pretty ho-hum to me. I have, however, heard great things about Oceania's food. But I heard great things about Celebrity and didn't find it to be so great even in the pre-RCI days. Gourmands take note: cruising is probably not going to satisfy your hunger.

[dkjretired]

Hi Barb!

I wasn't aware of a heated argument. I thought we were discussing the upcoming changes to Century from a couple of different perspectives, both by fans and those who aren't, with eyes towards whether the alterations would alter our opinions. I'm optimistic it will change mine, though, at this point, it's just a guesswork as we try to visualize the changes as indicated in the release. Time will tell, but as always, it's fun to speculate. For the people currently, who like this ship; the final result may leave them wanting. Unfortunately for them, they're not a large enough market segment for the ship, [or line,] to be profitable.

Eventually, Celebrity has to figure out it's niche. So far, they've tried several approaches to market segments and continue to operate in the RED. That's got to end sometime! There are rumors that Celebrity could be sold..given the right offer. I'd hate to see that happen because I think RCCL needs a line like it..in order to compete, somewhat, with Carnival's dominance of the industry. Is it now on the path toward black ink? I hope so!

 

 

Hi Mel:

 

Don't think she was talking about you.

[safein]

I agree with the YUCK, but for this portion only. The rest sounds to be vast improvements on the amateur design that is Century currently.

 

I suspect, I am not the only one who disliked the design of this ship as originally configured. RCCL is spending a lot of money to fix most of the items I found wanting. I can't wait to see the finished product!

 

Like I've always said: amateur design!

 

Parnami,

 

I completely and totally disagree with what you say. I have sailed the Century twice. And I was working for the minority partner, OSG, when this ship was both planned and built. Careful planning and designing went into this ship. This was done not by a ship designer, but by one of the top design companies, Birch Coffey, in New York City which is where our HQ is located. They took special care about not only the design but the cares of the passengers.

 

Have you sailed on more than one Celebrity vessel? The only ship I have not seen by way of open house or sailing and that's the Constellation. If you have sailed on any of the Century class vessels, each is done very differently. The Millie class, which is post Chandris/OSG all look too similar with only the art work being different.

 

I think you are in the total minority with your views on the Century.

 

Anita

[safein]

And why the continued jabs at Celebrity? When will you ever get over that one awful cruise you had on CENTURY how many years ago? Talk about beating a dead horse. Celebrity was a GREAT line before Royal Caribbean bought it. Royal Caribbean near destroyed Celebrity by combining too many synergies with RCI. They obviously realized this and are now attempting to restore that which was hastily taken away. Thankfully, I think Celebrity is back on track.

 

Ernie>

 

Ernie,

 

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!! Having sailed pre-RCCL and post-RCCL, I have noticed the subtle differences between the 2. Anyone remember when white glove service used to be the norm in the dining room? That's one major change I noticed.

 

When RCCL purchased Celebrity, there had been a stipulation that the 2 product lines were to be kept as is. It seems that RCCL has decided to do away with some parts that made Celebrity unique.

 

Anita

[safein]

They are adding live music to the Cova café... meaning there's a new dancing venue, which if I recall correctly you found the M Class to be lacking. Michael's Club remains. And another new outdoor dancing venue is being added. How is that so awful? I don't see it.

 

If memory serves me correctly,there is no place on the Century for music such as a quartet, much like the Cova Cafe on the MIllie class ships. The Cova Cafe has usually been a place where one enjoys soft-style/classical music.

 

Anita

[benjamins]

Parnami,

 

I completely and totally disagree with what you say. I have sailed the Century twice. And I was working for the minority partner, OSG, when this ship was both planned and built. Careful planning and designing went into this ship. This was done not by a ship designer, but by one of the top design companies, Birch Coffey, in New York City which is where our HQ is located. They took special care about not only the design but the cares of the passengers.

 

Have you sailed on more than one Celebrity vessel? The only ship I have not seen by way of open house or sailing and that's the Constellation. If you have sailed on any of the Century class vessels, each is done very differently. The Millie class, which is post Chandris/OSG all look too similar with only the art work being different.

 

I think you are in the total minority with your views on the Century.

 

Anita

 

Birch Coffey is a fantastic design company. Birch Coffee did on the Century that magnificent restaurant and also the restaurants, Michael's Club, and some of the specialty dining rooms on the Millennium ships. Birch did the Mercury's foyer, and Galaxy's Stratosphere and lido restaurant. His style is period early 1920s to 1940s inspired. Birch also did the upper suites and penthouses in the Century and Millennium ships.

 

Each is done differently, Century had the liner like feel (hope they don't screw that up), Galaxy chic, Mercury had some 50s 60s references. Very interesting differences making them feel like different ships. I was so disappointed with the Infinity when I saw it, an almost carbon copy of the Millennium. Summit and Constellation continued withe the unimaginative knockoff of the Millennium. Millennium ships will always feel like rush jobs to me. Anita, in addition to the artwork and some minor furnishing differences, each Millennium ship has a distinctive specialty restaurant.

 

In defense of Mel, I'll say he brings up some fair observations about the Century. I think he's harsh in his overall assessment that the ship is amaterish and doesn't feel upscale. I think the Century feels very upscale in ambiance.

[safein]

Now that I finally read this entire thread and replied to some of gthe earlier posts, I want to express my opinions.

 

I agree with everyone about the Century NOT being used to do short haul cruises. This is a ship to be enjoyed over a week, not used on a short term cruise. We have only sailed 2 ships twice, the Horizon and the Century, both being our favorite ships.

 

Benjamins, I'm glad you also noticed the tonnage error. I always wondered how could they classify the Century, Galaxy and Mercury as sister ships when the latter two were 7,700 tons heavier than the Century. Maybe the additions will bring her closer in weight to her sister ships.

 

As the schedules for her are not official as of yet, let's all hope that TPTB at RCCL comes to their senses and not use her on the shorter cruises.

 

Anita

[jsea]

If memory serves me correctly,there is no place on the Century for music such as a quartet, much like the Cova Cafe on the MIllie class ships. The Cova Cafe has usually been a place where one enjoys soft-style/classical music.

Very good point and one I had forgotten about. You are right, the live music at Cova is not of the dancing variety. On M Class it sort of does double-duty and fills the Grand Foyer... which I assume will be the case for Century as well.

[benjamins]

As the schedules for her are not official as of yet, let's all hope that TPTB at RCCL comes to their senses and not use her on the shorter cruises.

 

Anita

 

If Celebrity must do short cruises, the ship to use is the Zenith.

 

Remember when premium lines did only 7 night cruises and over?

[jsea]

Each is done differently, Century had the liner like feel (hope they don't screw that up), Galaxy chic, Mercury had some 50s 60s references. Very interesting differences making them feel like different ships. I was so disappointed with the Infinity when I saw it, an almost carbon copy of the Millennium. Summit and Constellation continued withe the unimaginative knockoff of the Millennium. Millennium ships will always feel like rush jobs to me.

Agree 100%. I haven't sailed Century, but I was very impressed with my cruises on Galaxy and Mercury and the differences in design between the two vessels. They are each distinct and don't quite so much like clones. The Grand Foyers, specifically, are completely different and imaginatively designed. I particularly like the mini-foyer with bar just forward of the Manhattan Restaurant on Mercury.

 

I too wish that the M Class had more individual touches. That being said, I find them to be great ships overall and appreciate some of their added amenities.

[Sky Sweet]

If Celebrity must do short cruises, the ship to use is the Zenith.

 

Remember when premium lines did only 7 night cruises and over?

 

I sure do:)

 

When my husband and I got married during the middle seventies, we had trouble finding a cruise for our honeymoon that was less than 14 days. The cruise we took at that time on the Leonardo da Vinci was 9 nights and we were ecstatic to find one that short. I still have our passenger list booklet from that cruise, which was a standard amenity during that era of cruising..

[barbon2]

We also did the Century twice and found it to be classically elegant. We first sailed on her a few months after her maiden voyage and was totally impressed with both the ship and the line. Our second sailing on her was about 5 yrs. ago and again no complaints here. We have also sailed on the Mercury and Infinity and are anticipating our Dec. cruise on the Constellation. We have also done NCL, HAL and Princess, the latter, in my humble opinion being the worst we have ever been on in terms of mediocre food and lack of service. Our last two cruises were on HAL due to itineraries (Amsterdam and Maasdam) and we found HAL to be a nice line that offered a good product. However, that being said, we always find ourselves comparing our cruises on other lines to Celebrity and still consider Celebrity our favorite. We like what we feel is the upscale atmosphere on the line and the quiet elegance of the ship.

I really feel there is no right or wrong in choosing a line, the most important factor in choosing a cruiseline is selecting one that "you" feel suites your taste and makes your vacation a wondeful experience.

[Andy]

If Celebrity must do short cruises, the ship to use is the Zenith.

 

Remember when premium lines did only 7 night cruises and over?

 

Hi Benjamins !

 

I agree with your comments. As a matter of fact, I made that exact same comments here on the boards, and made the same suggestion to Celebrity, about letting Zenith remain in Miami next year, to do the short Cruises.

 

I truly feel Zenith is the ship for the job, and NOT a newly refurbished Century. I feel that 4/5 night sailings for Century, with very low per diems, will be a total waste for the ship. I am sure Celebrity can do MUCH better.

 

However, as Zenith is already scheduled to head back to Tampa for longer sailings, unless Celebrity has a change of heart, I do not think Zenith will remain in Miami after this coming season.

 

Let's hope they change their minds.... and let Century go back to her old schedule of alternating 7 night Eastern & Western Caribbean, out of Ft Lauderdale. Or even better.... I also love to see Century do something like a 8/6 night alternating Eastern & Western Caribbean, similar to what Jewel of the Seas does. That itinerary is selling like crazy for Royal Caribbean, and I think that would be a perfect plan for Century.

 

Celebrity, are you listening ? I hope so !

[Andy]

I really feel there is no right or wrong in choosing a line, the most important factor in choosing a cruiseline is selecting one that "you" feel suites your taste and makes your vacation a wondeful experience.

 

Hi Barbon !

 

I agree. Well said !

[evoni]

SkySweet, it's a small world. We also did the Leonardo da Vinci cruise for our Honeymoon back in March 1974. I don't think I have the passenger list any longer, but I still have the photos of the cruise and shaking hands with the Captain.

 

Diana

[eroller]

SkySweet, it's a small world. We also did the Leonardo da Vinci cruise for our Honeymoon back in March 1974. I don't think I have the passenger list any longer, but I still have the photos of the cruise and shaking hands with the Captain.

 

Diana

 

 

LEONARDO DA VINCI was my very first cruise ship! I was only 12 years old and it was around 1978. I remember all the details pretty well, and especially that I absolutely loved the ship. Our cabin was Lido Deck #9, an outside upper/lower berth. That wonderful ship turned me into the ship nut I am today! I sure wish she was still around ... to this day I think she is the most beautiful looking ship I've ever laid eyes on. Not a box like the ships built today.

 

Ernie