Is Princess Trying Too Hard

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

But they do play this,

 

Quando sono sola

sogno all'orizzonte

e mancan le parole,

si lo so che non c'è luce

in una stanza quando manca il sole,

se non ci sei tu con me, con me.

Su le finestre

mostra a tutti il mio cuore

che hai accesso,

chiudi dentro me

la luce che

hai incontrato per strada.

 

 

Time to say goodbye.

Paesi che non ho mai

veduto e vissuto con te,

adesso sì li vivrò.

Con te partirò

su navi per mari

che, io lo so,

no, no, non esistono più,

it's time to say goodbye. -

I think many here are reading to much intoo the words.

 

 

yours Shogun

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

Have been surfing around appears that we complain more than other sites,

 

Princess facebook has lots of very happy posts only a few complaints,

 

so are we the problem, has the product changed to meet todays cruisers

 

and its us that have become old, and out dated.

 

yours Shogun

[dmwnc1959]

Hi All

 

But they do play this...

 

yours Shogun

 

 

One of my all time favorites! :D

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl9WMIPzd6w

[Shogun]

Hi There

 

one thing I will always recall is sailing into Venice with this being played at full volume,

 

with loads of people crying as our cruise was ending,

 

 

yours Shogun

[caribill]

Any time a company makes changes, they are going to upset some people.

 

The trade-off is that the changes may open them up to a much larger segment of the market.

 

Do you really think new passengers are going to book Princess because of changes such as:

 

o Taking the Champagne fountain from being its own event and combining it with the Captain's welcome party

 

o No longer having a welcome plate of cookies in your cabin on embarkation day

 

o Having less OBC on a future cruise if they like Princess and want to purchase an FCC

 

o No longer allowing you to book shore excursions online for family members not in your cabin

 

o No longer providing fruit juice at no charge at lunch and dinner.

 

o Raising the price of a 100 minute Internet package by 25%

 

o Booking a suite and no longer having the Internet benefit (but getting a handful of almonds on embarkation day as a gift)

 

o Removing permanently the blue mats on the Grand Princess balconies

 

I am not sure what segment of the market will respond to the above changes and start booking cruises on Princess because of them.

[bhopal21]

Hi All

 

Have been surfing around appears that we complain more than other sites,

 

Princess facebook has lots of very happy posts only a few complaints,

 

so are we the problem, has the product changed to meet todays cruisers

 

and its us that have become old, and out dated.

 

yours Shogun

 

It may be in those shades you are wearing.

 

Yes the product has changed to meet the Wal-Mart and McDonald's cruisers.

 

Let's see if they will continue to keep Princess afloat.

 

Mike:)

[swedish weave]

Do you really think new passengers are going to book Princess because of changes such as:

 

o Taking the Champagne fountain from being its own event and combining it with the Captain's welcome party

 

o No longer having a welcome plate of cookies in your cabin on embarkation day

 

o Having less OBC on a future cruise if they like Princess and want to purchase an FCC

 

o No longer allowing you to book shore excursions online for family members not in your cabin

 

o No longer providing fruit juice at no charge at lunch and dinner.

 

o Raising the price of a 100 minute Internet package by 25%

 

o Booking a suite and no longer having the Internet benefit (but getting a handful of almonds on embarkation day as a gift)

 

o Removing permanently the blue mats on the Grand Princess balconies

 

I am not sure what segment of the market will respond to the above changes and start booking cruises on Princess because of them.

 

That is a pretty extensive list, but it isn't what I was referring to with my comments.

 

New cruisers would not know about those things and probably would not consider them important. The important things are price, itinerary, comfort, and activities. Many changes are made to keep the price down, and many are made to increase the comfort level which will attract a larger segment of the population.

[swedish weave]

It may be in those shades you are wearing.

 

Yes the product has changed to meet the Wal-Mart and McDonald's cruisers.

 

Let's see if they will continue to keep Princess afloat.

 

Mike:)

 

I hope the cruisers you name can do the same for Princess as they have for the other two companies.:D

[bhopal21]

I hope the cruisers you name can do the same for Princess as they have for the other two companies.:D

 

Princess has bet their brand identity on it.

 

Mike;)

[dmwnc1959]

Yes the product has changed to meet the Wal-Mart and McDonald's cruisers.

 

Let's see if they will continue to keep Princess afloat.

 

Princess has bet their brand identity on it.

 

Mike;)

 

I imagine there are plenty of people sailing their ships that come off very happy with the Princess product, and I'm sure not all of them shop at Walmart and eat at McDonald's. And should these so-called Walmart shoppers and McDonald's diners be relegated to just cruise lines like Carnival and NCL? Is that your basic train of thought? That they don't deserve to cruise Princess if it were an upscale line?

 

Princess just can't cater to social snobs and the elite with big pocket books. It is a mass market cruise line, plain and simple. And mass market means everyone is welcome.

 

Princess is not a luxury market cruise line, never really has been since the introduction of the Sun-class. I cruised them back in 1997 and 1998 and they were nice enough, but there were, in my opinion, better products out there.

 

As far as brand identity, they lost that years ago, even before Carnival Corporation bought them. Nobody really looks at the Grand-class ships and sees 'The Love Boat'. They see another big, boxy, white cruise ship with lots of balconies. At least Carnival has interesting funnels.

 

.

[bhopal21]

I imagine there are plenty of people sailing Princess now that come off of the ships very happy with the product, and I'm sure not all of them shop at Walmart and eat at McDonald's. And should these so-called Walmart shoppers and McDonald's diners be relegated to just cruise lines like Carnival and NCL? Is that your basic train of thought? That they don't deserve to cruise Princess if it were an upscale line?

 

Princess just can't cater to social snobs and the elite with big pocket books. It is a mass market cruise line, plain and simple. And mass market means everyone is welcome.

 

Princess is not a luxury market cruise line, never really has been since the introduction of the Sun-class came. I cruised them back in 1997 and 1998 and they were nice enough, but there were, in my opinion, better products out there.

 

As far as brand identity, they lost that years ago, even before Carnival Corporation bought them. Nobody really looks at them now and sees 'The Love Boat'. They see another big, boxy, white cruise ship with lots of balconies. At least Carnival has interesting funnels.

 

.

 

 

That is not my train of thought at all; and I am not a wealthy person.

 

It just appears to me (and others) that they have narrowed their focus in this area and I feel sure that is what brings them the highest return on their investment.

 

And I have never thought of them as a luxury market cruise line but there was far more individuality of the CCL lines just 7 years ago than there is now.

 

Mike:)

[Amuse Bouche]

It may be in those shades you are wearing.

 

Yes the product has changed to meet the Wal-Mart and McDonald's cruisers.

 

Let's see if they will continue to keep Princess afloat.

 

Mike:)

 

:p I live in an area where Jaguars, Mercedes, Lexus are commonplace, and seeing a Lotus is no big deal. And, no, it's not Beverly Hills. If you go to anyone of the Walmarts here, you will see these cars in the parking lot. If you check the Mickey D's drive thru line, you will see these cars.

 

I'm finding it especially ironic that there are so many posts about the decrease in perks or free stuff, and yet, there are posts like this about not wanting to have the lower middle class be a part of the market.

 

Shogun- I realize this wasn't your intent. As usual, a thread has morphed. :D

 

BTW, I drive an American made Chrysler 300C, and have an American made Dodge truck. I see no benefit to spending 20K more for perks, and I'm happy with the mid level market cruise lines.

[swedish weave]

At least Carnival has interesting funnels.

 

.

 

But Carnival doesn't have TURBOS !!

[dmwnc1959]

It just appears to me (and others) that they have narrowed their focus in this area and I feel sure that is what brings them the highest return on their investment.

 

And I have never thought of them as a luxury market cruise line but there was far more individuality of the CCL lines just 7 years ago than there is now.

 

Mike:)

 

With a fleet of 16 ships (some of them quite big and carrying over 3600 passengers) what choice do they have? They have to fill the ships or start laying them up. They can't be waiting on Thurston Howell III and 'Lovey' to show up!

 

And even Walmart and McDonald's patrons have expendable income. Maybe more so from being budget conscious. I shop there all the time, several times a week, and in the past nine years have cruised (as a single occupancy traveler paying the surcharge) - Celebrity (3x), Cunard (QM2), Royal Caribbean (Allure of the Seas, not cheap!), and the Ruby Princess. I also booked (last year) my upcoming December cruise the new Royal Princess and am also looking at Allure of the Seas again for 2014. Not bad for a Walmart shopper, huh?

 

And you're saying seven years ago Princess had more brand identity and individuality than it does now? Really? How's that?

[Iamcruzin]

As far as brand identity, they lost that years ago, even before Carnival Corporation bought them. Nobody really looks at the Grand-class ships and sees 'The Love Boat'. They see another big, boxy, white cruise ship with lots of balconies. At least Carnival has interesting funnels.

 

.

Can you blame them for wanting to lose the "Love Boat identity"? It's true that the show did bring the cruising experience to us common folk whose parents couldn't afford to take the family on a cruise vacation back in the 70's and it did popularize the industry. However, when you think about it the Love Boat was nothing but a short booze cruise that promoted hook ups simialar to the way people discribe a Carnival cruise. It was not presented as being a luxury line for the Carrington’s and the Colby’s who were part of another Aaron Spelling production.

[bhopal21]

I'm finding it especially ironic that there are so many posts about the decrease in perks or free stuff, and yet, there are posts like this about not wanting to have the lower middle class be a part of the market.

 

If you saw that anywhere in my post, I apologize but it is simply not there.:p

 

Mike

[Amuse Bouche]

It was a clear allusion.

 

What does Walmart and McDonalds have to do with Princess, or cruising??

 

I'm pretty sure there is no coupon to enter a contest for a free tanzanite necklace at the Walmart or McDonalds located within walking distance of any pier. :rolleyes: :D

 

Anyway, just be nice. Anyone who works hard and saves their money for a dream vacation deserves it. Even if they are a waitress at Denny's. (another allusion to compound with yours.)

[dmwnc1959]

It was a clear allusion.

 

What does Walmart and McDonalds have to do with Princess, or cruising??

 

I'm pretty sure there is no coupon to enter a contest for a free tanzanite necklace at the Walmart or McDonalds located within walking distance of any pier. :rolleyes: :D

 

Anyway, just be nice. Anyone who works hard and saves their money for a dream vacation deserves it. Even if they are a waitress at Denny's. (another allusion to compound with yours.)

 

Bravo and well said!

 

And I even learned a new word today! "Allusion".

 

Cool... :D

[wizard-of-roz]

I believe all the comments are just an illusion!

I'll be cruising Princess as long as they offer the best cruiseline leaving out of Los Angeles.

They suit me just fine!

[bdjam]

We will cruise Princess again but based only on the cruise being deeply discounted and a special itinerary.

We appreciate Princess may need to cut corners but we are not willing to pay top price for a discounted ho hum experience.

Deep discounts is exactly the reason that Princess provides what you say is a ho hum experience. The cruise line has less revenue to provide more quality and the people who are buying discount cruises would prefer to eat at Horizon Court than to have a fine dining experience.

The drawback to the smaller profile is that you have to spread fixed costs among a smaller pool, which raises prices and makes it harder to compete.

I agree that the smaller profile (and hopefully higher quality goes with that) would probably make the per diem increase, but whether or not that makes it harder to compete depends on the game the cruise line decides to play. A premium cruise line marketing to the masses isn't following a very well thought out business plan.

Without the influx of money from Carnival Corporation could they have built newer, smaller ships and still competed, or would they just have a fleet of aging 15+ year old ships? And who would they be competing against then?

 

Holland-America and Cunard would most likely would be gone without Carnival Corporation stepping in. HAL's entire current fleet of ships (minus the Prinsendam) was built after Carnival Corp took them over. Same goes for Cunard. They would have nothing as they were well on their way to bankruptcy with their ageing fleet and the QE2.

Brings up a couple of interesting points - remember that Princess and RCI were in negotiations (and I believe had signed a deal that Princess had to pay to get out of) to merge Princess into RCI. At the last minute, Princess decided to go with Carnival Corp. instead. At the time, Caribbean Princess was seen to be the last new build for Princess for a while due to cash flow issues (and interestingly was being built to compete directly with RCI). Carnival had the deep pockets and efficiencies of scale that Princess needed to - theoretically - compete with RCI, and to expand the fleet. And right HAL and Cunard would be out of business if it weren't for Carnival Corp.

[swedish weave]

Deep discounts is exactly the reason that Princess provides what you say is a ho hum experience. The cruise line has less revenue to provide more quality and the people who are buying discount cruises would prefer to eat at Horizon Court than to have a fine dining experience.

 

I agree that the smaller profile (and hopefully higher quality goes with that) would probably make the per diem increase, but whether or not that makes it harder to compete depends on the game the cruise line decides to play. A premium cruise line marketing to the masses isn't following a very well thought out business plan.

 

Historically, the cruise lines that have tried to maintain a premier image have failed or have been absorbed by the lines that appeal to the general public. Carnival has tried to help them maintain their separate identities, but they must make a profit somewhere along the line. If higher prices were the answer, you would not be seeing the deep discounts that have been taking place, so cutbacks are the next thing to try in order to avoid failure.

[jody]

After not cruising for a few years, I did notice the downgrades on my 2011 Alaska cruise on Princess. It was a bit disappointing. I tried HAL in 2012 and I have to say that although I liked HAL's food better, I found myself missing Princess. The limited hours in the buffet (for snacks out of meal times) was one thing and there were others that were hard to put my finger on.

 

I will definitely give Princess another go in the future, but I'm definitely nostalgic for the way things used to be.

 

And I wonder, will we look back at our current cruises and think of them as the 'good old days' someday in the future?

[bdjam]

It was a clear allusion.

What does Walmart and McDonalds have to do with Princess, or cruising??

I'm pretty sure there is no coupon to enter a contest for a free tanzanite necklace at the Walmart or McDonalds located within walking distance of any pier.

Anyway, just be nice. Anyone who works hard and saves their money for a dream vacation deserves it. Even if they are a waitress at Denny's. (another allusion to compound with yours.)

I don't think the allusion was that clear and I agree with Mike. There's nothing wrong with the Walmart or McDonald's set if and if that's how you want to market your cruise line, then I think that's great - it gives people more choices. But when you take what used to be a higher quality cruise experience and dumb it down and cheapen it to make it appeal to a wider audience, then you're more than likely going to alienate the passengers that were attracted to the cruise line in the first place because of what it has to offer. Again, perfectly acceptable business practice but not one that will continue to attract those who grew up on the original experience.

 

And I think that's the general complaint - Princess isn't necessarily what it used to be and we miss it. I'm still not convinced that I need to go try something else - hopefully that time will not come.

Historically, the cruise lines that have tried to maintain a premier image have failed or have been absorbed by the lines that appeal to the general public. Carnival has tried to help them maintain their separate identities, but they must make a profit somewhere along the line. If higher prices were the answer, you would not be seeing the deep discounts that have been taking place, so cutbacks are the next thing to try in order to avoid failure.

I don't 100% agree with your statement - while the Royal Cruise Lines, Royal Viking Line, etc have been absorbed, in recent years, cruise lines like Oceania and Azamara have cropped up offering a higher quality experience and there are still the Crystal and Raddisons out there. As I mentioned before, Carnival Corporation's (remember I got scolded earlier by not being clear the difference between the cruise line and the company) merger with Princess created a problem - and that's how to position the line. Princess grew too fast for it's own market, so right discounts and cutbacks have been put into place in compensate. But I wonder what would have happened had Carnival Corp taken Princess' existing market profile and had continued to pursue that rather than growing the line.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not knocking lower prices - that's what allows me to cruise twice a year rather than once a year...but there's a tipping point when two low quality experiences are outweighed by one high quality experience. That's when I go elsewhere

[swedish weave]

I don't think the allusion was that clear and I agree with Mike. There's nothing wrong with the Walmart or McDonald's set if and if that's how you want to market your cruise line, then I think that's great - it gives people more choices. But when you take what used to be a higher quality cruise experience and dumb it down and cheapen it to make it appeal to a wider audience, then you're more than likely going to alienate the passengers that were attracted to the cruise line in the first place because of what it has to offer. Again, perfectly acceptable business practice but not one that will continue to attract those who grew up on the original experience.

 

And I think that's the general complaint - Princess isn't necessarily what it used to be and we miss it. I'm still not convinced that I need to go try something else - hopefully that time will not come.

 

I don't 100% agree with your statement - while the Royal Cruise Lines, Royal Viking Line, etc have been absorbed, in recent years, cruise lines like Oceania and Azamara have cropped up offering a higher quality experience and there are still the Crystal and Raddisons out there. As I mentioned before, Carnival Corporation's (remember I got scolded earlier by not being clear the difference between the cruise line and the company) merger with Princess created a problem - and that's how to position the line. Princess grew too fast for it's own market, so right discounts and cutbacks have been put into place in compensate. But I wonder what would have happened had Carnival Corp taken Princess' existing market profile and had continued to pursue that rather than growing the line.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not knocking lower prices - that's what allows me to cruise twice a year rather than once a year...but there's a tipping point when two low quality experiences are outweighed by one high quality experience. That's when I go elsewhere

 

This info may help you choose your future cruises.

 

Apollo Mgmt owns Oceania and Regent Seven Seas (formerly Raddison) and they also own a part of NCL

 

RCCL owns Azamara

 

Crystal is owned by NYK lines

 

None are totally independent and are operating at the discretion of their owners.

 

Are they making money ? I don't know.

 

I am pretty certain that Apollo had a hand in changing the management of NCL a couple of years ago, and that move created a lot of unhappiness among NCL regulars --- but the changes made by Sheehan pulled them out of the loss column and allowed them to stay in business. That can (and should) happen to any line that is not profitable

[bdjam]

This info may help you choose your future cruises.

 

Apollo Mgmt owns Oceania and Regent Seven Seas (formerly Raddison) and they also own a part of NCL

 

RCCL owns Azamara

 

Crystal is owned by NYK lines

 

None are totally independent and are operating at the discretion of their owners.

 

Are they making money ? I don't know.

 

I am pretty certain that Apollo had a hand in changing the management of NCL a couple of years ago, and that move created a lot of unhappiness among NCL regulars --- but the changes made by Sheehan pulled them out of the loss column and allowed them to stay in business. That can (and should) happen to any line that is not profitable

OK - these premium lines are owned by larger corporations, but my point was that premium lines absorbed by larger corporations don't have to become mass market lines...and your post proves that.

 

If the owners (and I include stockholders) of a business want it to survive and realize changes need to be made to do that, then by all means make the changes. And right we don't have to like them and if we find they affect our experience we can go somewhere else. I'm not arguing that point - but "changes" doesn't mean lower quality, mass marketing or dumbing down a product to appeal to the masses. There are other changes that can be made to keep a company profitable and if the executives that run a company can't come up with innovative solutions, maybe they shouldn't be executives. Providing stockholders with dividends so they can have a "golden parachute" when they leave the company isn't the only thing they should be devising.