Why no American Captains?

[nybumpkin]

Here's another Maritime Academy http://www.maritime.edu/.

They have their own freighter and turn out officers. The "Jone Act" put the USA out of the cruise business with their requirements for a US Flagged ship.

There are a number of state schools - aside from Mass Maritime, there's State University of New York Maritime College (right across the Long Island Sound from USMMA, in fact), Maine Maritime, Great Lakes Maritime, California Maritime, Texas A&M - I'm probably missing some. Oldest son applied to a grand total of two colleges - USMMA and SUNY Maritime. He loves the sea - always told his dad and me (engineer and lawyer) that he'd never want a desk job like we've had. I think he's about as far from a desk job as you can get!;)

[smeyer418]

The last comment may be the only one with which I might agree, but the main tenor of your post seems to be biased against Americans (both sailors and civilians).

Most veteran cruisers can relate incidents of sailing with Captains of various nationalities, not just Italian but Greek, Portuguese, British, Irish, American, Norwegian and Swedish among others.

Bruce works for one of the cruise lines and is very knowledgeable although he and I sometimes disagree normally more by degrees. In any case the question was how long they work and while there is some disagreement it it isn't 6-8 months. its 2-4 at most.

[nybumpkin]

And American's don't wear white after Labor Day?

Actually, Pete, at USMMA they change from summer whites to service dress blues on the first Monday in October. They change back to summer whites this year on April 22. So much for waiting until Memorial Day.;)

[JUGGER]

Hi

i was reading that almost all cruise ship captains are italian, however, the major cruise lines are not italian companies.

 

Take carnival cruise lines for instance ... It's an american / british company with an american ceo ... However, none of the captains or his 1st officers are american.

 

Seems strange that these cruise lines don't hire americans ... The us has the largest navy in the world. Certainly there is alot of talent getting out of the us navy that have experiance operating large ships like aircraft carriers and such.

 

Lots of americans flying large commercial airplanes ... But not commanding cruise ships.

 

So, anyone know why there are no american cruise ship captains?

 

Do they get paid so little by these cruise lines that no american that has experiance commanding aircraft carriers, large cargo ships, etc would ever want the job?

 

Confused ....

hi-----italians are born sailors----that is why there are only capts------on board every sailing ship--understand----maybe the isney ship has an american-----the joyces

[MommaBear55]

Last summer my son and another USMMA student did an internship aboard USS Wasp, along with Annapolis midshipmen. USMMA students get much more hands-on sailing experience than Annapolis students, being required to sail 300+ days during their four years at the school, and our son already had served in engine rooms on several ships - he literally has sailed around the world. Aboard Wasp, the Chief Engineer singled out son and his sea partner, gave them an assignment, and told them to show the Annapolis mids "how it's done.":D

 

Love it! My husband is an MaineMA grad who shipped for 6 years as an engineer and now has a third career (after 35 years building NATO class ships) as a Master Captain on boats up to 100 tons. It is a great career.

[katerkat]

I would think if someone retiring from the US Navy that commanded an aircraft carrier for years would certainly be able to captain a cruise ship around the mediteranian ... don't ya think?

 

Why would they want to? You do know what the meaning of "retired" is don't you?

 

My husband will be eligible to retire from the Air Force at age 41. If he does get out then, he sure as heck is going to fly for an airline and not sit around bugging me for the next (hopefully) forty years of his life. ;)

 

However, these days, most of the airline pilots aren't former military - the percentage is down to about 25-35%. (Although there's about to be a wave of retirements, which might lure more out of the military.) And the transition isn't as easy as F-16->747 - you have to get the proper type rating, which involves sims/training/money.

[us mariner]

I have lurked here for some time and now feel compelled to post.

 

Some of the comments regarding American merchant mariners are extremely inaccurate and downright offensive.

 

We are still around, people, and we are not lazy nor are we overpaid. Your cruise ships are staffed with European officers and qualified non-licensed ratings, and Euro/Asian hotel staff because the ships are registered in foreign countries and the owners can therefore hire non-Americans.

 

For dirt cheap.

 

That does not make Americans overpaid. It means non-Americans are underpaid. Don't try that old saw about how they make more than the average worker back where they come from. They get stiffed out of wages, tips, and overtime so frequently it would make your head spin. I know. I've talked to enough of them. US labor laws need not apply.

 

And that's how you get to sail multiple times a year as some of you do, because cruising is no longer a pastime for the wealthy or upper middle class. You wanted cheap, you got cheap. Cheap clothes, cheap electronics, cheap cars, cheap houses, cheap vacations. Let an American worker ask for a raise and he's automatically a "union thug."

 

Eventually, though, everyone will be making third world wages and even cheap recreation will be a thing of the past.

[zoncom]

Most of the Captains I have encountered are either Greek from the Maritime school in Athens or British. I believe England has a Maritime school also.

[swedish weave]

I have lurked here for some time and now feel compelled to post.

 

Some of the comments regarding American merchant mariners are extremely inaccurate and downright offensive.

 

We are still around, people, and we are not lazy nor are we overpaid. Your cruise ships are staffed with European officers and qualified non-licensed ratings, and Euro/Asian hotel staff because the ships are registered in foreign countries and the owners can therefore hire non-Americans.

 

For dirt cheap.

 

That does not make Americans overpaid. It means non-Americans are underpaid. Don't try that old saw about how they make more than the average worker back where they come from. They get stiffed out of wages, tips, and overtime so frequently it would make your head spin. I know. I've talked to enough of them. US labor laws need not apply.

 

And that's how you get to sail multiple times a year as some of you do, because cruising is no longer a pastime for the wealthy or upper middle class. You wanted cheap, you got cheap. Cheap clothes, cheap electronics, cheap cars, cheap houses, cheap vacations. Let an American worker ask for a raise and he's automatically a "union thug."

 

Eventually, though, everyone will be making third world wages and even cheap recreation will be a thing of the past.

 

Welcome to Cruise Critic. It seems that I get the honor of disputing your first post.

 

Hotel and waitstaff are not underpaid by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Wages in some of their home countries are around twelve dollars per day, and they can earn over a hundred dollars per day working on cruise ships.

They work and study for a few years just to get considered for an application, and there are many waiting in line for these lucrative jobs

 

Cruise ships are all over the world, so comparing their pay to US standards is not logical.

[Kudos2Fly]

Well my dad started in the Maritime industry back in 1973-74. He started out as a deck hand, AB then worked his way up to Captain. He went the Piney Point, MD Academy. Back then the company you work for would helped pay for your training. Nowadays the merchant marine companies don't do that. He mostly worked with shipping companies, but also did other things like docking ships and dredging. Here is his experience http://capttonyfromal.com/resume/. I ask him one time why doesn't he consider Cruise Ships. One reason was pay.

 

As for his schedule away from home, it depend on the company he worked for. There is no set schedule. So this 3 month on and off is not the norm. He never had a schedule like that... The only thing that came close was one time he had a 2 months on and 1 month off.

 

Also my dad never collected unemployment unless he was unemployed.... Someone mention this.

 

Like us mariner said, their are still mariners in the US and worked hard to become a captain... To get the ratings my dad has is not easy and it hasn't gotten easier.

 

As for the airlines, there is wrong inform there also. Most airlines now a days do not get their pilots for the military. Most come from schools like Emery Riddle now. With some many aviation schools in the US that train pilots for the airlines, the airline don't need to look at the military as source for pilots anymore.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Kudos2Fly

[dixieva]

RCI has a couple of American Captains. Capt Richard Wright of the Oasis is an American.

 

 

There is Captain Rob (can't think of his last name). I think he is currently on a ship that sails out of Fl. He used to be on Enchantment out of Baltimore. We loved him.

[Blurgh]

i have lurked here for some time and now feel compelled to post.

 

Some of the comments regarding american merchant mariners are extremely inaccurate and downright offensive.

 

We are still around, people, and we are not lazy nor are we overpaid. Your cruise ships are staffed with european officers and qualified non-licensed ratings, and euro/asian hotel staff because the ships are registered in foreign countries and the owners can therefore hire non-americans.

 

For dirt cheap.

 

That does not make americans overpaid. It means non-americans are underpaid. Don't try that old saw about how they make more than the average worker back where they come from. They get stiffed out of wages, tips, and overtime so frequently it would make your head spin. I know. I've talked to enough of them. Us labor laws need not apply.

 

And that's how you get to sail multiple times a year as some of you do, because cruising is no longer a pastime for the wealthy or upper middle class. You wanted cheap, you got cheap. Cheap clothes, cheap electronics, cheap cars, cheap houses, cheap vacations. Let an american worker ask for a raise and he's automatically a "union thug."

 

eventually, though, everyone will be making third world wages and even cheap recreation will be a thing of the past.

 

boom.

[Blurgh]

Welcome to Cruise Critic. It seems that I get the honor of disputing your first post.

 

Hotel and waitstaff are not underpaid by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Wages in some of their home countries are around twelve dollars per day, and they can earn over a hundred dollars per day working on cruise ships.

They work and study for a few years just to get considered for an application, and there are many waiting in line for these lucrative jobs

 

Cruise ships are all over the world, so comparing their pay to US standards is not logical.

 

The majority of their business, for the cruise line in question in this forum, is done out of domestic US ports.

 

Not to mention, at least for the service industry employees, the PASSENGERS

pay the great majority of their salary.

 

It's a very weird dichotomy. The employees, for the most part, are better off doing their boat job than they would be at home, but from the customer perspective, they are incredibly low paid indentured servants who rely on the passengers tipping them, in order for them to be better off for doing this.

 

Or, to not be as wordy, the lines have come up with a brilliant scheme to have the passengers pay the majority of the employees salary.

[nybumpkin]

As for his schedule away from home, it depend on the company he worked for. There is no set schedule. So this 3 month on and off is not the norm. He never had a schedule like that... The only thing that came close was one time he had a 2 months on and 1 month off.

When son starts, he will be 4 months on, 1 month off. And if he opts for overtime, even a harder schedule. However, he's young....

[smeyer418]

The interesting thing about cruiseonomics is that if you paid a 1,000 crew boat $10 an hour at say 14 hours a day (it's probably a little less than that, counting off time), it would cost $980,000 over the course of a 7 day cruise.

 

If this was a 4,000 passenger cruise, the average rate would go up $245 per person per week, as obviously it would be passed on to the consumer, and tipping would be optional, I would guess.

 

The question here would be, would the crew be better off in this scenario. I would guess, probably. It depends on how individual cruisers tip and how cash tips are treated.

 

In general the crew is better off under the tipping system, even with all its a faults...

[Blurgh]

The interesting thing about cruiseonomics is that if you paid a 1,000 crew boat $10 an hour at say 14 hours a day (it's probably a little less than that, counting off time), it would cost $980,000 over the course of a 7 day cruise.

 

If this was a 4,000 passenger cruise, the average rate would go up $245 per person per week, as obviously it would be passed on to the consumer, and tipping would be optional, I would guess.

 

The question here would be, would the crew be better off in this scenario. I would guess, probably. It depends on how individual cruisers tip and how cash tips are treated.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Blurgh

[swedish weave]

The majority of their business, for the cruise line in question in this forum, is done out of domestic US ports.

 

Not to mention, at least for the service industry employees, the PASSENGERS

pay the great majority of their salary.

 

It's a very weird dichotomy. The employees, for the most part, are better off doing their boat job than they would be at home, but from the customer perspective, they are incredibly low paid indentured servants who rely on the passengers tipping them, in order for them to be better off for doing this.

 

Or, to not be as wordy, the lines have come up with a brilliant scheme to have the passengers pay the majority of the employees salary.

 

You are correct, and the system works beautifully because the crew are aware that their pleasant demeanor can benefit them in higher earning capability.

 

I would not call it a scheme.

 

I cruised many years when tipping was done with envelopes, and many of the crew were stiffed. When the conversion to adding the service charge to your account happened, I objected because I wanted to know that the crew were getting the money. I am satisfied that it is going to them, and they are getting a much more dependable income than before.

 

The cruise lines could raise fares and pay the crew more, but there would many tax implications. Also, it would not create the morale uplift that is prevalent on the ships now.

[negc]

Bruce works for one of the cruise lines and is very knowledgeable although he and I sometimes disagree normally more by degrees. In any case the question was how long they work and while there is some disagreement it it isn't 6-8 months. its 2-4 at most.

 

If the opinions he voices in his post about American working on cruise ships is any indicator and if his duties at the cruise line involve hiring personnel, the reason for any absence of Americans on cruise vessels is quite obvious.

[smeyer418]

If the opinions he voices in his post about American working on cruise ships is any indicator and if his duties at the cruise line involve hiring personnel, the reason for any absence of Americans on cruise vessels is quite obvious.

unfortunately he is not the only one who thinks that...and its been that way for a long time the Germans thought it in both WWI and WWII and the Brits did too(overpaid, oversexed and over here)

[firstcruiseever]

Just random, but I read the post title as "Why No Captain Americans" I clicked on it thinking it would reference Marvel comics somewhere lol :p

[Blurgh]

You are correct, and the system works beautifully because the crew are aware that their pleasant demeanor can benefit them in higher earning capability.

 

I would not call it a scheme.

 

I cruised many years when tipping was done with envelopes, and many of the crew were stiffed. When the conversion to adding the service charge to your account happened, I objected because I wanted to know that the crew were getting the money. I am satisfied that it is going to them, and they are getting a much more dependable income than before.

 

The cruise lines could raise fares and pay the crew more, but there would many tax implications. Also, it would not create the morale uplift that is prevalent on the ships now.

 

Yeah, I didn't like the envelope setup. Beyond half the dining room mysteriously disappearing at the 7th dinner, I thought giving these guys and girls wads of cash leaves them open to shakedowns from other employees.

 

I think it's an interesting question, service could definitely be effected, but at the same time, between the comment cards and the F&B people watching your numbers, they could find employees that "suck" pretty quickly and dispose of them with a plane ticket.

 

I'm not sure one way or another, which way would benefit the employees. The company would also have to advertise higher price, even if that difference between the "hidden" cost of tipping and the new, increased fare wasn't that much.

[Older Party]

RCL has at least one American captain.

 

I believe he is the most Senior Captain as well...Captain William Wright, yes?

[firstcruiseever]

Yeah, I didn't like the envelope setup. Beyond half the dining room mysteriously disappearing at the 7th dinner, I thought giving these guys and girls wads of cash leaves them open to shakedowns from other employees.

 

Oh I didn't think about that! Shake downs... Food for thought. That probably does happen.

[Kudos2Fly]

When son starts, he will be 4 months on, 1 month off. And if he opts for overtime, even a harder schedule. However, he's young....

 

Yea my dad never had a schedule like that. He now is semi retired. He still works, but more on a very part time schedule. He works now just in the Tampa Bay area. Last job was refueling one of the cruise ships in Tampa. He now is only works when the company needs an extra captain. But he is 67.

 

Good luck to your son.

[nybumpkin]

Yea my dad never had a schedule like that. He now is semi retired. He still works, but more on a very part time schedule. He works now just in the Tampa Bay area. Last job was refueling one of the cruise ships in Tampa. He now is only works when the company needs an extra captain. But he is 67.

 

Good luck to your son.

Thanks so much! He's anxious to get out and start working, looking forward to his career. And maybe if he does enough overtime he can support me in my retirement.:D