Does Riviera and/or Marina have redundant systems?

[ohmark]

NYTimes article on Monday about cruise ships going dead in the water ala Carnival, mentioned that a 2006 rule from the International Maritime Organization required that all cruise ships built after July 2010 have redundant systems, i.e.; "backup engines and generators that would take over if a vessel's main engines were knocked out by a fire or another cause." Thus, in an emergency, the ship would be able to make it back to a port on its own power. However, the article also mentioned that "today, only about 10 cruise ships have such equipment," and that cruise ship owners, in the interest of fitting more paying passengers (rather than equipment) on the ships have not voluntarily equipped new ships with the redundant systems.

 

I know we are all interested in the latest restaurant, spa, and excursion news, but does anybody know if the Riviera and/or Marina were built with such backup systems? And wouldn't this be the greatest of luxuries; to cruise on a ship with such backup systems?

[YoHoHo]

Only info I have I learned from Mura's reply to the question posted Feb 25th. with the same article. You may want to follow that thread as well in case a reply is made there.

[ohmark]

Yep; sorry I overlooked the prior thread. Still, no answer posted in either thread. Curious that the NYT article didn't mention which 10 cruise ships have the backup systems. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/business/many-cruise-ship-lack-backup-power-systems-vexing-regulators.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Mura]

Well, it did mention the two Royal Caribbean vessels ...

 

I wonder why they named two but not the other eight!

 

Mura

[hondorner]

Most ships, including most reasonably modern passenger ships, have long ago incorporated diesel electric propulsion, in which diesel engines generate electricity to power electric motors which then propel the ship. The diesel generators are also used to provide power for the operation and comfort of the ship.

 

I have no formal knowledge of how the power is applied, but I do know there are multiple diesel engines. When one breaks down, the others can be used to make up some of the power. Because the loss of an engine means less power than usual, something has to be cut back to compensate. Because the comfort of passengers is paramount to cruise ships, usually the electric motors are slowed. This actually happens with some frequency; I believe one of the "R" ships and one of the Regent ships had such problems in the past year.

 

If it was essential to supply the motors with full power, most likely something like the air conditioning would be cut back.

 

The actual total failure of all of the diesel generators is a very infrequent situation; I have no idea why most of the power was lost on Triumph, but it's possible the fire destroyed some key components to all the engines. I think the only way to provide redundancy in a case like that would be separate engine rooms. Ultimately there is no possible way to provide absolute redundancy; there is always the possibility of a disaster that knocks out everything.

 

I think the technical information is buried somewhere in this article: trpa.org/documents/CEP/Homewood/ABB%20AS_2003.pdf but it's too technical and too long for me to get seriously into it. There are some easy-to-read historical facts about electrical propulsion of ships, and a discussion of redundancy buried somewhere in it.

[YoHoHo]

While I have not looked into why the Triumph was disabled but a reason this does happen is the fire destroys the electrical system. So the power plants might be working/or repairable but if the electrical connection to the motors is down then no power. I think that is what happened on Azamara last year

[JimandStan]

Don beat me to the punch, but this is a simple illustration:

 

A combination of generators provide "juice" to diesel motors.

Each generator is wired to power either motor, and each motor is wired to power either propeller, so there is a myriad of redundancy built into the system.

[eddmel]

The preliminary report on the Triumph identified a broken fuel return line as the likely culprit. The spilt fuel resulted in a significant fire which probably damaged key control equipment before it was extinguished. The damage was enough so that only minimal power could be generated.

[PaulMCO]

One of the IMO SOLAS rule changes ( II-2/21-Casualty threshold, safe return to port and safe areas) requires survivability in case of a fire in a compartment. Meaning the ship must have a separate compartment with at a minimum separate standalone generator system that would provide essential services after a fire and allow the ship to make it back to port. There are a lot of other areas of changes including safe area for passengers, improved fire suppression, redundant communications etc..

 

Considering the fact that the Marina and Riviera were ordered before the July 2010 effective date would make that unlikely they they meet these requirements. Any future O class ships would have to meet the new requirements.

[ohmark]

Considering the fact that the Marina and Riviera were ordered before the July 2010 effective date would make that unlikely they they meet these requirements. Any future O class ships would have to meet the new requirements.

Thanks, that's sort of what I was asking. But the Times article mentioned that these regulations as to "casualty threshhold/safe return to port" were established in 2006, allowing time for cruise lines to voluntarily equip their ships built in the last few years. One would think that the cruise lines which have so equiped their ships, whether Oceania or others, would want the public and prospective customers to know.

So, assuming Marina and Riviera weren't required to meet the redundancy standards, the question remains whether or not Oceania decided to voluntarily so equip its two new ships.

[2kiwis]

Thanks, that's sort of what I was asking. But the Times article mentioned that these regulations as to "casualty threshhold/safe return to port" were established in 2006, allowing time for cruise lines to voluntarily equip their ships built in the last few years. One would think that the cruise lines which have so equiped their ships, whether Oceania or others, would want the public and prospective customers to know.

So, assuming Marina and Riviera weren't required to meet the redundancy standards, the question remains whether or not Oceania decided to voluntarily so equip its two new ships.

 

Hopefully someone from Oceania may respond to this very interesting question

[JimandStan]

Adding in a bunch of "just in case" backups may not be the best plan.

When the Italian Line flagship, Andrea Doria sank in 1956 after being rammed by another ocean liner, it was trumpeted that her replacement, the Leonardo DaVinci of 1960, would be built to exceed then current SOLAS requirements by a wide margin.

The Da Vinci debuted as a perfectly gorgeous, state of the art ship, but those "improvements" resulted in two completely autonomous Engine Rooms, just like a battleship.

Engineer staffing and fuel costs were off the charts from day one.

 

This glamorous ship had all of the right bells and whistles from a passenger standpoint, but she lost money even when they had her Island hopping in the Caribbean at a fuel saving ten knots.

After an all too brief career, the not yet twenty year old ship mysteriously caught fire while anchored in La Spezia, and was scrapped on the spot.

 

Always follow the money-

[ohmark]

Hopefully, the technology and engineering has improved in the last 53 years, and would allow such ships to be operated profitably. It better have as, according to the Times, the new regulations apply to all newly built ships and, according to the article, ten new ships are already so equipped.

[hypercafe]

All these ships have redundant systems in that they have 4, 6 or more gen sets, at least two screws and sets of emergency generators. This stuff is in more than one room however, at least in the design of the carnival ships, there is a single point of failure that can knock it all out. I would guess it is a switch board or wiring trunk. In this last problem I am sure they could run at least half of the gen sets but could not direct the power to the hotel services or propulsion. Its these bottle necks that must be fixed.

[PS Caledonia]

Adding in a bunch of "just in case" backups may not be the best plan.

When the Italian Line flagship, Andrea Doria sank in 1956 after being rammed by another ocean liner, it was trumpeted that her replacement, the Leonardo DaVinci of 1960, would be built to exceed then current SOLAS requirements by a wide margin.

The Da Vinci debuted as a perfectly gorgeous, state of the art ship, but those "improvements" resulted in two completely autonomous Engine Rooms, just like a battleship.

Engineer staffing and fuel costs were off the charts from day one.

 

This glamorous ship had all of the right bells and whistles from a passenger standpoint, but she lost money even when they had her Island hopping in the Caribbean at a fuel saving ten knots.

After an all too brief career, the not yet twenty year old ship mysteriously caught fire while anchored in La Spezia, and was scrapped on the spot.

 

Always follow the money-

 

Thank you for posting those pictures, such a beautiful ship as are those interiors... A sad end indeed.

 

As for her propulsion system, I'm sure I read somewhere that during construction, provision had been made for conversion to nuclear power. Not sure if it's true.

 

PSC