Help with corporate...

[maggie cruises]

The more interesting question is what would be the difference if they were US/Canadian/UK ex military ;)

 

well..just a wild guess on my part...but they probably would have realized the fact that a 14 yo taken from her cabin by adult males at 4am would probably not be the smart thing to do without her parent present...

 

because..in North America she has many rights at her age...

 

and sorry to say....that same girl if she were in a3rd world nation...does not have nearly any rights...

 

don't get caught up in political correctness and please do not try to defend the security guards.....there are times when the smart move to is to honestly assess the situation...period..

 

the girl should not have been taken...but these guards totally ignored that....possibly because they didn't care about her or her parents or what may/could have construed by their actions...ok..got it?

 

and all of this is because they may possibly..most probably...could actually come from a culture that sees nothing wrong with what they did..

 

but wild guess on my part...a north american security guard might have understood the consequenses...

[Nalagh]

I understand your plight, but how do you intend to obtain policy and assurance from NCL?

 

NCL reads these boards all the time, and I would like for them to simply clarify the procedure and policy regrading the removal of minor children from a room and the pertaining parental consent.

[maggie cruises]

I don't understand why you think it's ok for a male, in a position of authority, to remove a female minor from her cabin at 4:30am - regardless of who was or wasn't in the room with her!

 

My husband won't even drive one of my daughter's friends home without someone else being in the vehicle with him. Common sense says a male adult never, ever should have been able to remove a 14-year old child without a parent there. I suppose if the ship were on fire, it would be ok though. :)

 

stop using logic..that is not PC anymore.

[WaldosPepper]

The more interesting question is what would be the difference if they were US/Canadian/UK ex military ;)

 

The fact is, they are from the UK, and are selected by NCL because of their training at a specific facility. ;)

 

In an earlier post she described security as "third world guerilla types." I've yet to meet a single member of the security staff that I would describe as "guerilla-type." :rolleyes:

 

I would really love to know what line she was sailing during whatever incident has caused her to ascribe that particular label.

[NLH Arizona]

Why is it the awoken and most probably disoriented child's responsibility to get mom and not the security officer's. They KNEW where the parents were! The child was reacting to the demands of adult security.

 

As far as the child having her own cabin, we will have to agree to disagree. At my home we do not sleep in the same room with our children, nor do we on vacation. Our children are not locked in their bedrooms at night and could leave at any time without our knowledge. They could utilize many forms of transportation to get where they wish to be. To my knowledge, this has never happened.

 

It is my job as a parent to be vigilant as to the constant whereabouts of my children, and to check often to ensure they are where they need to be. My children will never be allowed to roam the ship and my curfew is much earlier than the ship imposed curfew. My children will never be allowed in anyone else's cabin, have guests in their cabin or be anywhere besides the teen or kids club.

 

The OP's daughter was a half hour late and they were vigilant in locating her and sending her off to bed. The girl did nothing more wrong imho. She was told by security to get of of her bed, but security knew where mom was. I am sure both rooms were linked in the system anyway so for me there is no excuse.

I don't think it was the child's responsibility, I think it was the parent's responsibility to have one of them staying in the room with a 14 year old girl. I don't think that the security officer/s that took the young girl out of the room knew where the parents were, because I'm sure they didn't stop to do research in anticipation of a parent not being in the room, since those are NCL's rules. And not knowing what time the dad and brother went looking for her, we can't assume that that officer told anyone or even remembered, since I'm guessing it was quite some time before 4:30am.

 

A child having their own bedroom is totally different than putting a child in a room by themselves, without a parent, on a ship or hotel, unless it is connecting. In my opinion, that is just a diaster waiting to happen, because too many things can and have happened.

 

You are obviously doing the right thing by not letting your children roam the ship alone and the other rules you are setting for them, I wish all parents were as vigilant as you. Maybe if they were, there would not be the unfortunate incidents that happen on vacations.

 

Sorry, but until we know the whole story, none of us know what happened on that ship. Again, a 14 year old girl, by NCL rules, is not allowed to stay in a cabin without a parent and I feel that since there was no parent in the room, the security personnel did not have to go banging on a cabin door to find a parent when one should have been in the room with the child.

 

Yes, the OP's daughter was a 1/2 late, but the problem is, as I see it, the parents had no idea where she was, because the dad and brother went looking for her. I think the parents should be more upset with the fact that they didn't know where their daughter was for some time.

[maggie cruises]

The fact is, they are from the UK, and are selected by NCL because of their training at a specific facility. ;)

 

In an earlier post she described security as "third world guerilla types." I've yet to meet a single member of the security staff that I would describe as "guerilla-type." :rolleyes:

 

I would really love to know what line she was sailing during whatever incident has caused her to ascribe that particular label.

 

Carnival.

 

and btw..i am sailing ncl in a few weeks and have sailed them before..yes, they are or once were British subjects......more like from the British Empire..as in India and the environs...again..there is no harm in describing a person from where they come from...period..or have you drank every sip of Kool Aid on the planet? You don't like gueriella..ok...but come on...they are military and/or ex police...why else were they hired? why don't you harp on the fact that everyone on the boards describes their room steward as from the Phillipines...it is a geographical description. btw...I am very proud of my heritage and brag about it all the time...and youare welcome to use it to describe me..using my heritage..culture..all the time if you want....even though some from my home island in the middle of the Med. Sea have not been treated well by the media...LOL but I love the movies that are made about my heritage anyway!

 

btw...let's hope they don't hire untrained people for security. but these ones on NCL with this girl need more training.

[WaldosPepper]

what do you mean these types of people? They are ex military. and not USA ex military either. It doesn't take much to know that..just talk to a few security guards on your next cruise..ask them where they are from and their experience?

 

you don't like the word guerrilla..ok..my bad...but since when is it shameful to describe an ex military man from India or Southeast Asia as an ex military man from India or southeast asis?

 

Should I have said he was a Scandavanian professor on sabbatical and working on a cruise ship? Now, that would be an untruth. I know you like an argument....

 

You referred to them as "third world guerilla types." When I asked my question, I was referring to your description.

 

I would still like to know precisely which cruise line you were referring to.

 

And for the record, I detest arguments.

[WaldosPepper]

Carnival.

 

and btw..i am sailing ncl in a few weeks and have sailed them before..yes, they are or once were British subjects......more like from the British Empire..as in India and the environs...again..there is no harm in describing a person from where they come from...period..or have you drank every sip of Kool Aid on the planet? You don't like gueriella..ok...but come on...they are military and/or ex police...why else were they hired? why don't you harp on the fact that everyone on the boards describes their room steward as from the Phillipines...it is a geographical description. btw...I am very proud of my heritage and brag about it all the time...and youare welcome to use it to describe me..using my heritage..culture..all the time if you want....even though some from my home island in the middle of the Med. Sea have not been treated well by the media...LOL but I love the movies that are made about my heritage anyway!

 

btw...let's hope they don't hire untrained people for security. but these ones on NCL with this girl need more training.

 

As a former United States Marine, and former member of Law Enforcement, it pains me to see someone have such an awful opinion about people who choose to work in the businesses of protecting society.

[davids68girl]

I don't understand why you think it's ok for a male, in a position of authority, to remove a female minor from her cabin at 4:30am - regardless of who was or wasn't in the room with her!

 

My husband won't even drive one of my daughter's friends home without someone else being in the vehicle with him. Common sense says a male adult never, ever should have been able to remove a 14-year old child without a parent there. I suppose if the ship were on fire, it would be ok though. :)

 

This. I don't care if the child should not have been in the cabin alone. That is another argument for another day. What scares me is that MEN took a GIRL without notifying her parents. That is scary-no matter what the rest of the circumstances are.

[SissasMomE]

This. I don't care if the child should not have been in the cabin alone. That is another argument for another day. What scares me is that MEN took a GIRL without notifying her parents. That is scary-no matter what the rest of the circumstances are.

 

Agreed - 100%.

[Nalagh]

I don't think it was the child's responsibility, I think it was the parent's responsibility to have one of them staying in the room with a 14 year old girl. I don't think that the security officer/s that took the young girl out of the room knew where the parents were, because I'm sure they didn't stop to do research in anticipation of a parent not being in the room, since those are NCL's rules. And not knowing what time the dad and brother went looking for her, we can't assume that that officer told anyone or even remembered, since I'm guessing it was quite some time before 4:30am.

 

A child having their own bedroom is totally different than putting a child in a room by themselves, without a parent, on a ship or hotel, unless it is connecting. In my opinion, that is just a diaster waiting to happen, because too many things can and have happened.

 

You are obviously doing the right thing by not letting your children roam the ship alone and the other rules you are setting for them, I wish all parents were as vigilant as you. Maybe if they were, there would not be the unfortunate incidents that happen on vacations.

 

Sorry, but until we know the whole story, none of us know what happened on that ship. Again, a 14 year old girl, by NCL rules, is not allowed to stay in a cabin without a parent and I feel that since there was no parent in the room, the security personnel did not have to go banging on a cabin door to find a parent when one should have been in the room with the child.

 

Yes, the OP's daughter was a 1/2 late, but the problem is, as I see it, the parents had no idea where she was, because the dad and brother went looking for her. I think the parents should be more upset with the fact that they didn't know where their daughter was for some time.

 

We have been permitted to have connecting rooms in the past and were within the perimeters of the rules. For this next trip I am unsure if the children will have outside hallway access. Nonetheless, if they want my children out of the room for any reason, they best walk through to my cabin!

[SissasMomE]

As a former United States Marine, and former member of Law Enforcement, it pains me to see someone have such an awful opinion about people who choose to work in the businesses of protecting society.

 

Thank you for your service :) My father's a retired police chief; most of my family is law enforcement. Hubby's the exception - he's in fire service, but we let that one slide ;) I read things in the media, facebook, and on here about public servants that make me cringe :(

[SissasMomE]

We have been permitted to have connecting rooms in the past and were within the perimeters of the rules. For this next trip I am unsure if the children will have outside hallway access. Nonetheless, if they want my children out of the room for any reason, they best walk through to my cabin!

 

We have connecting cabins as well, and, although mine is older than 14, I would still expect someone to see me first if they needed to speak with her. I do hope NCL chimes in on this one. It's important that parents hear from them.

[luvtheships]

Oh please do not put cruise ship security personnel in the same category as US military and police. It is insulting to US military and police

[luvtheships]

This. I don't care if the child should not have been in the cabin alone. That is another argument for another day. What scares me is that MEN took a GIRL without notifying her parents. That is scary-no matter what the rest of the circumstances are.

 

Another reason to be wary of ship security

[SissasMomE]

Oh please do not put cruise ship security personnel in the same category as US military and police. It is insulting to US military and police

 

LOL Agreed!!

[Nalagh]

This. I don't care if the child should not have been in the cabin alone. That is another argument for another day. What scares me is that MEN took a GIRL without notifying her parents. That is scary-no matter what the rest of the circumstances are.

 

Exactly! No matter what the rest of the circumstances were should this have happened!

[GUEST080219]

This. I don't care if the child should not have been in the cabin alone. That is another argument for another day. What scares me is that MEN took a GIRL without notifying her parents. That is scary-no matter what the rest of the circumstances are.

 

In the first place they should not have done it for self-protection against bad rumors and prejudices as we can read in this thread.

 

To be honest it makes me sick that the assumption is that there were some dark thoughts involved at the security guys instead of believing that they did what they could to bring the missing child back to their worrying parents as soon as possible.

[jdro]

I was only looking for a little knowledge on who I can contact not an open debate on my parenting skills, I do know where my children are we were to meet back at the room at 1:00 ncl's curfew (we do not break rules) she missed this the only reason security knew who we were was because while my husband and 19 year old son was looking for my daughter they ran into her "friends" mother looking for her that is how security got our room #'s should my son have let her out of the room, should we have been awoken YES my son was read the riot act the next day. But that is personal with my family I did not ask for any advice on parenting nor would I ever offeIr mine. Those who live in glass houses..

[SissasMomE]

Do you know if they found the missing girl?

[WaldosPepper]

I agree wholeheartedly with...

 

This:

 

In the first place they should not have done it for self-protection against bad rumors and prejudices as we can read in this thread.

 

To be honest it makes me sick that the assumption is that there were some dark thoughts involved at the security guys instead of believing that they did what they could to bring the missing child back to their worrying parents as soon as possible.

 

AND with this:

 

I was only looking for a little knowledge on who I can contact not an open debate on my parenting skills, I do know where my children are we were to meet back at the room at 1:00 ncl's curfew (we do not break rules) she missed this the only reason security knew who we were was because while my husband and 19 year old son was looking for my daughter they ran into her "friends" mother looking for her that is how security got our room #'s should my son have let her out of the room, should we have been awoken YES my son was read the riot act the next day. But that is personal with my family I did not ask for any advice on parenting nor would I ever offeIr mine. Those who live in glass houses..

 

jdro, I'm sorry that so many jumped on you and questioned your parenting. I hope that you were able to find the information you sought, and that you will keep us updated if you are able to reach someone and get some answers.

[jdro]

And another thing if I had anything to hide I would not have come here for help, very easy to sit behind a computer and place judgement instead of looking at the big picture of what happened and trying to make sure that this never happens again to anyone.

[nomad098]

Hi all

 

Just been reading through the rules a regulations in regards to placement of a minor in a

stateroom whether this is with parents or in their own cabin.

And I am still very confused because if you book in the US or UK it states you must have an adult in the room with a minor or the minor must be in a connecting room, however if you book in the EU here is the rule:

 

14.1 Passengers under 21 years of age must be accompanied in the same or neigboring stateroom by a guest 21 years or older at the time of embarkation, who expressly agrees to be responsible for the guest under 21 years of age at the time of embarkation.

 

So if the OP booked through the EU site, they have not broken any rules by putting their son and daughter in an neigboring cabin but would have on the US and UK sites.

 

Regardless of the above information, removing a child from where the parents have placed them without parental permission has got to be a big NO NO, unless it was for that childs safety. If the OP had gone to check on their child and found them missing securtity would have put the OP through the same type of stress and anxiety as the parents of the missing child, which I hope they found quickly safe and well.

 

Reading the story on here it sounds like the security personel where doing everything they could to find this child and in doing so may have stepped beyond their bounds.

Training is the key in these situations

 

Damon

[NLH Arizona]

Exactly! No matter what the rest of the circumstances were should this have happened!

But it would have never happened if a parent was in the room with the young lady. So yes, all of the circumstances should be taken into consideration.

[NLH Arizona]

I was only looking for a little knowledge on who I can contact not an open debate on my parenting skills, I do know where my children are we were to meet back at the room at 1:00 ncl's curfew (we do not break rules) she missed this the only reason security knew who we were was because while my husband and 19 year old son was looking for my daughter they ran into her "friends" mother looking for her that is how security got our room #'s should my son have let her out of the room, should we have been awoken YES my son was read the riot act the next day. But that is personal with my family I did not ask for any advice on parenting nor would I ever offeIr mine. Those who live in glass houses..

If you knew where your daughter was, then your husband and son would not have been out looking for her.

 

I would love to hear NCL's side of the story.