Live from silver cloud mid-atlantic

[UKCruiseJeff]

Thanks Rachel,

A common theme running through much of what we have seen over the last few days is an energetic response to complaints but poor prevention ie great firemen but little fire prevention.

[duct tape]

Could you arrange that? This is one of your better ideas. The Paulo to SB part.

[UKCruiseJeff]

[quote name='RachelG']not to that.

Now I did mention in the mid cruise survey that we were very disappointed with the quality of canapes in the panorama lounge prior to dinner. Cold fried calamari, a few chips, nasty fish balls which were also cold. In response to that, they sent the guy who is head butler to talk to us and sent us a selection of canapes to the room that evening. And the quality of the offerings in panorama lounge did seem to improve somewhat.[/QUOTE]

........I meant to ask! Did they ask you to complete the 1 to 10 scale questionnaire? If so ... they still seem pretty clueless.

[RachelG]

[quote name='UKCruiseJeff']........I meant to ask! Did they ask you to complete the 1 to 10 scale questionnaire? If so ... they still seem pretty clueless.[/quote]
I wrote out the comments on the comment card mid cruise and did the questionaire at the end.

[UKCruiseJeff]

[quote name='RachelG']I wrote out the comments on the comment card mid cruise and did the questionaire at the end.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. So the main survey was at the end of the cruise.

Out of interest - if you were ambivalent about a question ie neither satisfied or dissatisfied - what number would you rate it on the 1 to 10 scale. And if you felt the issue was so poor it didn't deserve any marks - what score then?

Thanks.

[RachelG]

Ambivalent to me is a 5. I rarely score things really really low unless they are truly terrible. but 0 is not an option, so I guess 1 or 2

[UKCruiseJeff]

Thanks Rachel.

[wripro]

RacehlG,

I have come across many cruisers who feel just the opposite. 10 is not an option for them because, as they say, nothing is ever perfect, so they'll give an 8 or 9 thinking they are overpraising.

[RachelG]

[quote name='wripro']RacehlG,

I have come across many cruisers who feel just the opposite. 10 is not an option for them because, as they say, nothing is ever perfect, so they'll give an 8 or 9 thinking they are overpraising.[/QUOTE]

I have heard that too. At my office, we routinely do surveys (not my idea, but corporate makes us). I put little stock in the numbers part as there are lots of people who will never give you the best score, because there is always room for improvement. I do put stock in the comments which are individually written as that is where you can see what needs to be improved (or not). Of course, when you have one person giving a very low score because we do not have a tv in the waiting room and another commenting they are so happy we don't have a tv in the waiting room, it is difficult to please everyone.

[UKCruiseJeff]

It is a very big topic ... too much for this thread! But the couple of posts have already thrown up a few serious issues with companies who know nothing about the skill involved in designing feedback processes and assign it to a junior person in the marketing department.

A couple of basic points. As it happens the majority of people if you ask them what score they would give on a standard 1 to 10 Likert scale if they were neither positive or negative would say 5. They never say 6. But 5 isn't the mid-point on a 1 to 10 scale, it 5.5 which you are unable to use. The scale has now becoming a tool that will give misleading results. And someone who has thought things so poor isn't allowed to give a 0 score, alongside anyone giving a neutal score a 5.5. So there is now a further reason why the scale will produce misleading results. It isn't tracking either neutral or highly dissatisfied customers. That alone makes it a potentially dangerous tool;)

To cure these problems some have a 0 to 10 scale, the mid point of neutrality then being 5 and people now being able to give a 0. But a zero is basically not giving a score and the average of two people responding, one giving 0 and the other 10 is 10 - not 5 as you might logically think.

If that weren't enough there are many more issues. For example there is no real difference in meaning between say 6 or 7 or 8 or 9, particularly when you overlay cultural approaches to feedback. In Japan for example a really delighted customer may give a 10 and a really dissatisfied customer may give an 8 or a 9 as anything else to some parts of that culture consider anything else to be rude. So how do you judge the feedback from a ship with a different mix of cultures on each cruise? The scale does not have very specific descriptors alongside the numbers so they mean different things to different people even without cultural differences.

There are many other issues. The scale approach forces the over study of averages and misleading statistics. If for example you asked SS passengers how many legs they had you may arrive at an average leg owners of 1.99. But there isn't a single passenger who has ever been on an SS ship with exactly 1.99 legs. So if you were designing a ship for customers with1.99 legs - what use is the statistic? Stats can be notoriously misleading. For example in the UK 32% of road accidents are caused by drivers whilst under the influence of alcohol. So statistically (superficially) who are causing most accidents? The sober drivers. So it is statistically safer to drive when drunk as you are less likely to be involved in an accident. Obviously that is untrue but stats in the hands of ordinary management can have all sorts of wobbly results.

In reality the apart from the free form comments the current feedback form is not only not useful to SS management it is actually dangerous because it gives the delusion of providing management with useful and meaningful and actionable information which it doesn't.

[billcrooz]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[billcrooz]

[quote name='ukcruisejeff']it is a very big topic ... Too much for this thread! But the couple of posts have already thrown up a few serious issues with companies who know nothing about the skill involved in designing feedback processes and assign it to a junior person in the marketing department.

A couple of basic points. As it happens the majority of people if you ask them what score they would give on a standard 1 to 10 likert scale if they were neither positive or negative would say 5. They never say 6. But 5 isn't the mid-point on a 1 to 10 scale, it 5.5 which you are unable to use. The scale has now becoming a tool that will give misleading results. And someone who has thought things so poor isn't allowed to give a 0 score, alongside anyone giving a neutal score a 5.5. So there is now a further reason why the scale will produce misleading results. It isn't tracking either neutral or highly dissatisfied customers. That alone makes it a potentially dangerous tool;)








to cure these problems some have a 0 to 10 scale, the mid point of neutrality then being 5 and people now being able to give a 0. But a zero is basically not giving a score and the average of two people responding, one giving 0 and the other 10 is 10 - not 5 as you might logically think.

If that weren't enough there are many more issues. For example there is no real difference in meaning between say 6 or 7 or 8 or 9, particularly when you overlay cultural approaches to feedback. In japan for example a really delighted customer may give a 10 and a really dissatisfied customer may give an 8 or a 9 as anything else to some parts of that culture consider anything else to be rude. So how do you judge the feedback from a ship with a different mix of cultures on each cruise? The scale does not have very specific descriptors alongside the numbers so they mean different things to different people even without cultural differences.

There are many other issues. The scale approach forces the over study of averages and misleading statistics. If for example you asked ss passengers how many legs they had you may arrive at an average leg owners of 1.99. But there isn't a single passenger who has ever been on an ss ship with exactly 1.99 legs. So if you were designing a ship for customers with1.99 legs - what use is the statistic? Stats can be notoriously misleading. For example in the uk 32% of road accidents are caused by drivers whilst under the influence of alcohol. So statistically (superficially) who are causing most accidents? The sober drivers. So it is statistically safer to drive when drunk as you are less likely to be involved in an accident. Obviously that is untrue but stats in the hands of ordinary management can have all sorts of wobbly results.

In reality the apart from the free form comments the current feedback form is not only not useful to ss management it is actually dangerous because it gives the delusion of providing management with useful and meaningful and actionable information which it doesn't.[/quote]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[Rally]

[quote name='billcrooz']zzzzzzzzzzzzzz![/QUOTE]

To find an average, determine the total and divide by the number of inputs. To find the mean, find the point at which half of the data is more than and half is less. In your example of one score of 0 and one of 10' the average is 0 + 10 = 10 = avg 5 (not 10) anf the mean is 5 (half the replies above the mean, half below.). Your method ignores the number of imputs and is incorrect. You must be a marketing person rather than an accountant :)

[UKCruiseJeff]

[quote name='Rally']To find an average, determine the total and divide by the number of inputs. To find the mean, find the point at which half of the data is more than and half is less. In your example of one score of 0 and one of 10' the average is 0 + 10 = 10 = avg 5 (not 10) anf the mean is 5 (half the replies above the mean, half below.). Your method ignores the number of imputs and is incorrect. You must be a marketing person rather than an accountant :)[/QUOTE]

Thanks .... I agree .... you are making my exact point and that is that marketing departments use averages and become confused by the results as a result. Medians, means and distributions tend not to be in their vocabulary.:)

It is one of many reasons .. several of which I cited ... that the survey and analysis is problematic.

[CanadianKate]

[quote name='Rally']To find an average, determine the total and divide by the number of inputs. To find the mean, find the point at which half of the data is more than and half is less. In your example of one score of 0 and one of 10' the average is 0 + 10 = 10 = avg 5 (not 10) anf the mean is 5 (half the replies above the mean, half below.). Your method ignores the number of imputs and is incorrect. You must be a marketing person rather than an accountant :)[/quote]

Just out of curiosity, why did you choose to quote Bill in your post instead of the original poster who did not get the "average" correct? It is the original poster who must be in marketing, not Bill. Being in marketing myself, I don't necessarily consider it a slur, but I also do accounting so immediately saw the mistake the original poster made. Even though analyzing marketing data is not my field.

Average is a tricky noun since it means different things to different people but most people are thinking of the mean, when they are looking for the average of a group of results. I was taught there were three averages, Mode, Mean and Median, although I've learned there are others, these still seem the most common. Mode is the number that shows up most often. In this example, there is no mode. Mean is add them all up and divide by the number in the sample. So in the example above, we'd get 5. And median is the middle point amongst all the replies. Again, in this case, it is 5.

I agree that results from surveys like this are basically useless, especially when you take cultural background into account (or in my case, experience - SS is the only luxury product I consume - Hilton Garden Inn is about as luxurious as it gets for me on land.) But it doesn't help when people muddy the waters by saying: [QUOTE] the average of two people responding, one giving 0 and the other 10 is 10 - not 5 as you might logically think. [/QUOTE] Sure, if you want to consider a 0 not a reply why not consider a 10 not a reply as well? If that is what marketing surveys do, then I shall boycott them all from this point onwards. Because I will give a zero. I've stayed in some zeros in my time so know they exist and I'm sure some of the Carnival passengers also handed out zeros.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Smacked leg accepted.

In my original post I missed some " quotes " and clarity ... I was trying to (and it's late here) convey what one hears incorrectly about results. The specific issue I was avoiding because it was getting too long winder was that some surveys I have seen key in zero for a no response and do not therefore differentiate between a zero for dissatisfaction - but made the point clumsily and incorrectly. Thanks for correcting - you were right to as it as you said distracted from the other points. :o

The cultural differences can have dire results when an international organisation starts to measure one country's management with another for example. And scales should always have a clear description of what each number means so that there is at least a fighting chance of a common understanding amongst people completing them.

01:20 here .... night night to all!

[Rally]

[quote name='CanadianKate']Just out of curiosity, why did you choose to quote Bill in your post instead of the original poster who did not get the "average" correct? It is the original poster who must be in marketing, not Bill. Being in marketing myself, I don't necessarily consider it a slur, but I also do accounting so immediately saw the mistake the original poster made. Even though analyzing marketing data is not my field.

Average is a tricky noun since it means different things to different people but most people are thinking of the mean, when they are looking for the average of a group of results. I was taught there were three averages, Mode, Mean and Median, although I've learned there are others, these still seem the most common. Mode is the number that shows up most often. In this example, there is no mode. Mean is add them all up and divide by the number in the sample. So in the example above, we'd get 5. And median is the middle point amongst all the replies. Again, in this case, it is 5.

I agree that results from surveys like this are basically useless, especially when you take cultural background into account (or in my case, experience - SS is the only luxury product I consume - Hilton Garden Inn is about as luxurious as it gets for me on land.) But it doesn't help when people muddy the waters by saying: Sure, if you want to consider a 0 not a reply why not consider a 10 not a reply as well? If that is what marketing surveys do, then I shall boycott them all from this point onwards. Because I will give a zero. I've stayed in some zeros in my time so know they exist and I'm sure some of the Carnival passengers also handed out zeros.[/QUOTE]

I am a trained (? ,) marketing person as well and meant no disrespect to the profession. No one ever went broke under estimating the American consumer :). If I quoted the wrong person I apologize. To prove any point statistically, merely throw out the data you dont like as "erronious." My favorite and, probably, the most justifiable example is Regent, whose survey asks first, "How was the weather on your cruise?" Surveys who respnded below 5 are thrown out. Think about it :). Makes sense to me.

Another tidbit: a goos friend CD is named Jimmy. He quickly learned he could boost his evaluation scores when there were a large number of guests from the UK if he gave his name as "James" rather than "Jimmy."

[oregon50]

When doing point surveys on cruises, my starting point is a 10 because I've been told numerous times.....but not recently.....that anything under a ten is considered some sort of failure. I do believe written comments are important and probably hold more weight. It would be logical to think some would use 5 or 6 as a starting point and the same amount of people would think zero is a good number for very poor. If I score something a 5, that would be the lowest possible number on a cruise line survey.

[UKCruiseJeff]

[quote name='Rally']To prove any point statistically, merely throw out the data you dont like as "erronious." My favorite and, probably, the most justifiable example is Regent, whose survey asks first, "How was the weather on your cruise?" Surveys who respnded below 5 are thrown out. Think about it :). Makes sense to me.[/quote]

Happens more than people think. ;)

In earlier days of "customer feedback" programmes a major organisation insisted on receiving the customer feedback forms directly and then passing them on to the research orgnisation to key in and produce management reports "so that they could read the comments quickly and improve as soon as possible".

Their satisfaction index bumped along month in and month out at roughly the same. Then the ceo introduced a bonus scheme that was linked to the index. Immediately the idex went up by 3%. The ceo was told that if he sent someone to rummage around the drawers of this particular department they may discover (a precise number was given) a batch of surveys with a "1" rating with dissatisfied comments. They found them and the staff were convinced that a secret camera had been placed in the department. It was simply in the stats. The research company from that point onwards "got their own way" and received the surveys directly to their own freepost address before the big change to on-line completion.

I don't think surveys should be eliminated by Regent because the customers rate the weather as 5 though ......:D

I must admit it would be tempting to eliminate any that gave every question exactly the same score .....

[Rally]

[quote name='UKCruiseJeff']Happens more than people think. ;).

I don't think surveys should be eliminated by Regent because the customers rate the weather as 5 though ......:D

I must admit it would be tempting to eliminate any that gave every question exactly the same score .....[/QUOTE]

We were due to dock in Honolulu the day a tsunami warning was posted following the big earthquake in Chile and the ship was required to circle, along with many other ships, most of the day and finally allowed to dock for refueling only; no one was allowed off the ship. This was announced and explained by the captain throughout the day. At dinner that night an irate couple complained bitterly about the "horrible CD" who wouldnt let them off the ship and vowed to make him pay when they completed their surveys. If you dont think weather unfairly influences survey scores, how about tsunamis? :)

[Emtbsam]

[quote name='Rally']We were due to dock in Honolulu the day a tsunami warning was posted following the big earthquake in Chile and the ship was required to circle, along with many other ships, most of the day and finally allowed to dock for refueling only; no one was allowed off the ship. This was announced and explained by the captain throughout the day. At dinner that night an irate couple complained bitterly about the "horrible CD" who wouldnt let them off the ship and vowed to make him pay when they completed their surveys. If you dont think weather unfairly influences survey scores, how about tsunamis? :)[/QUOTE]


David did everything he could to help people that day. A certain passenger even was able to receive the flowers that her husband had ordered especially for her! The captain did the best thing - he left port as soon as he could so people would not have to stand on deck looking at a port they could not visit. We were very disappointed but were angry at the port officials, not the crew. Can you imagine how sad it must have been for the one crew member who was supposed to get off and see her elderly aunt for the first time in many years. I do hope she did get another opportunity to do so before it was too late.

[Rally]

[quote name='Emtbsam']David did everything he could to help people that day. A certain passenger even was able to receive the flowers that her husband had ordered especially for her! The captain did the best thing - he left port as soon as he could so people would not have to stand on deck looking at a port they could not visit. We were very disappointed but were angry at the port officials, not the crew. Can you imagine how sad it must have been for the one crew member who was supposed to get off and see her elderly aunt for the first time in many years. I do hope she did get another opportunity to do so before it was too late.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I watched the Captain standing on the gangplank yelling at port security, but they wouldnt let even him off to shake hands with his brother, who was standing only feet away. The problem, ultimately, wasnt even the tsunami but rather the fact that available security personnel were busy at a Princess ship, which was doing a turn around. The staff and crew did a fantastic job making lemonade out of lemons, but there are always a few passengers who blame the ship/crew for things out of their control. Those are the surveys that need to be taken with a grain of salt.

[wripro]

For the people I have met who refuse to give a 10 it is more of a cultural thing than one of science. Their upbringing taught them that no one is perfect so they cannot assign a perfect score. For me it's an emotional thing. As long as a staff member is truly trying his or her best under difficult circumstances I give them the benefit of the doubt. These scores are very important to the crew and I's much rather err on the side of generosity than of accuracy.

[Rally]

[quote name='wripro']For the people I have met who refuse to give a 10 it is more of a cultural thing than one of science. Their upbringing taught them that no one is perfect so they cannot assign a perfect score. For me it's an emotional thing. As long as a staff member is truly trying his or her best under difficult circumstances I give them the benefit of the doubt. These scores are very important to the crew and I's much rather err on the side of generosity than of accuracy.[/QUOTE]

Exactly!

[UKCruiseJeff]

Do the last two posts imply that the current questionnaires request either guest name and/or a suite number at the end of the form and/or it is left in the suite rather than handed in at reception or placed in a box at reception?

Thanks.