A la Carte Dining

[slidergirl]

Maybe I'm missing something. A change from "free" to "ala carte" wouldn't be much different for the dining hall. What I was thinking, it is more on the revenue side. My take on it:

You go to the restaurant. You get tonight's menu. It would look like any "restaurant" menu (kind of what is now, anyway). Each appetizer would have a description of what is on the plate, and price. The "primi" (like the Italian menu listing) would have the soups and salads, each with a description of what is in it, and a price. The entree (or "segundi") would have the meats, fowl, fish, and vegetarian entree listed, with a description of what was on the place, and price. Not really any different than now, other than the price. The waiter comes and takes your order. Order what you want, all courses of just one. The waiter takes the orders back to the kitchen. Plates are already there as much as can be, like now. The waiter can make changes on starch and veggies served with entree or have an item omitted from the salad, etc., just like now. The dinner is served in the same pace as now. When you are finished, instead of just getting up and walking out, you hand your sign & sail card to the waiter and it is swiped to put the cost of the meal on your bill.

 

That's what I think could happen. A change in Kitchen and serving really wouldn't be necessary, but a way of having the order ticket entered in the software system to generate a "bill" would have to be created.

 

Am I totally off track??

[sail7seas]

Maybe I'm missing something. A change from "free" to "ala carte" wouldn't be much different for the dining hall. What I was thinking, it is more on the revenue side. My take on it:

You go to the restaurant. You get tonight's menu. It would look like any "restaurant" menu (kind of what is now, anyway). Each appetizer would have a description of what is on the plate, and price. The "primi" (like the Italian menu listing) would have the soups and salads, each with a description of what is in it, and a price. The entree (or "segundi") would have the meats, fowl, fish, and vegetarian entree listed, with a description of what was on the place, and price. Not really any different than now, other than the price. The waiter comes and takes your order. Order what you want, all courses of just one. The waiter takes the orders back to the kitchen. Plates are already there as much as can be, like now. The waiter can make changes on starch and veggies served with entree or have an item omitted from the salad, etc., just like now. The dinner is served in the same pace as now. When you are finished, instead of just getting up and walking out, you hand your sign & sail card to the waiter and it is swiped to put the cost of the meal on your bill.

 

That's what I think could happen. A change in Kitchen and serving really wouldn't be necessary, but a way of having the order ticket entered in the software system to generate a "bill" would have to be created.

 

Am I totally off track??

 

 

I am the OP and that is close to what I imagine could be in our 'near future' on mass market cruise ships.

 

I don't see the big deal about stewards preparing bills from their order slips and having a tableside 'swipe machine' to slide our cards through for charging at the end of each meal. Some restaurants, for the sake of security for cardholders, swipe charge cards right at restaurant table and the card does not leave holder's sight and control. That same machine could be adpated for MDR use on a ship, IMO

 

 

[Scrapnana]

Maybe Mr. Palmer could try this on Titanic II.

[antique sailor]

maybe i'm missing something. A change from "free" to "ala carte" wouldn't be much different for the dining hall. What i was thinking, it is more on the revenue side. My take on it:

You go to the restaurant. You get tonight's menu. It would look like any "restaurant" menu (kind of what is now, anyway). Each appetizer would have a description of what is on the plate, and price. The "primi" (like the italian menu listing) would have the soups and salads, each with a description of what is in it, and a price. The entree (or "segundi") would have the meats, fowl, fish, and vegetarian entree listed, with a description of what was on the place, and price. Not really any different than now, other than the price. The waiter comes and takes your order. Order what you want, all courses of just one. The waiter takes the orders back to the kitchen. Plates are already there as much as can be, like now. The waiter can make changes on starch and veggies served with entree or have an item omitted from the salad, etc., just like now. The dinner is served in the same pace as now. When you are finished, instead of just getting up and walking out, you hand your sign & sail card to the waiter and it is swiped to put the cost of the meal on your bill.

 

That's what i think could happen. A change in kitchen and serving really wouldn't be necessary, but a way of having the order ticket entered in the software system to generate a "bill" would have to be created.

 

Am i totally off track??

yes

[SeagoingMom]

I would wonder about the feasibility of what you call "a la carte" dining, which I would call "pay as you go," for the thousands of pax on modern cruise ships. Land-based restaurants can offer an extensive menu and let every customer choose, because they are dealing with hundreds, maybe, of diners at a time, not thousands.

 

I am not a restauranteur, and perhaps this has already been done successfully, but "numbers" is what I wonder about.

 

Maybe they might offer several prix fixe options -- fixed price for so many "courses." Three course meal -- salad, entree, dessert -- one price. Five course meal -- appetizer, salad, entree, 2 sides, dessert -- another price, and up to 7 course meals, or even "all you can eat," perhaps? That way, the same foods, more or less, would be on the menu (as they are now), but people would order more or fewer items based on what they wanted to pay.

 

Or...perhaps what will happen is that the MDR will be eliminated in favor of numerous specialty restaurants, both fancy and casual, each at an extra charge -- whether a "cover charge," or a by-the-item or by-the-meal charge, as in land-based restaurants. Don't some of the lines do this now -- Johnny Rockets, Tepanyaki, Portofino's, etc. -- all at extra cost? (though the MDR still exists on these ships). Most ships already have extra-charge eating establishments of some sort or other, even if just coffee shops and ice cream parlors.

 

The OP's question was predicated on the idea that cruise lines are always trying to "generate more revenue." Presumably, they are actually trying to generate more profit. Ultimately, the economists and financial analysts in the cruise industry will have to decide if any changes such as are being discussed here might actually accomplish that goal. If so, they will probably try them. If they are wrong and profits go down, the system will change again, back to what it was, or on to some other new thing.

[SeagoingMom]

 

Question: Why should the cruise lines have ships with these big beautiful formal dining rooms when most people do not even like to dress? We hear it here on CC how people don't want big fancy dining experiences that they are required to dress for. They just want to go the an area like the food court at the local mall. Pick out what they want to eat and go back to what ever they decide to do that night. They don't want to take the time to shower, dress and show up for a big fancy dinner. The dining rooms as they are set up on today's ship take up a tremendous amount of space and could easily be converted into several smaller dining resturaunts and people could book and eat in different ones each night of their cruise. (each with a charge of course)? Then the buffet could be used for the pre-paid food and the space where you now have the speciality resturaunts could be used for some other income producing enterprise.

 

 

Regarding the idea that most folks don't want to dress up and eat in fancy dining rooms on board -- I have only cruised thrice, but on each cruise, every evening the fixed seating dining room area was pretty full, and the lines for "anytime dining" were long. Whether they "want to dress up" or not, and indeed, whether they do dress up or not, lots of pax are still eating in the MDR's, I think.

 

Cruise Critic may give a person a skewed view of what average cruisers want, as CC posters are not average, in general, and can be vociferous in their opinions, easily causing one to think that the posters represent many others who think the way they do, but this may actually not be the case at all. CC posters must really be a very small portion of all cruisers....

[slidergirl]

yes

 

Could you expand on that??? I thought it would be more like the restaurant menus we are used to, but not like the steakhouse model, where everything is indeed ordered separately (appy, salad, meat, starch, veggie).

 

Let me know where I (and the OP) are off base in our thinking.

[antique sailor]

Could you expand on that??? I thought it would be more like the restaurant menus we are used to, but not like the steakhouse model, where everything is indeed ordered separately (appy, salad, meat, starch, veggie).

 

Let me know where I (and the OP) are off base in our thinking.

AHOY SHIPMATES

 

Didnt mean to sound abrupt with a YES .

 

Almost all of the pitfalls have been mentioned several times in the previous posts. It boils down to TIME & Personnel due to the large number of passengers eating at the same time and all wanting to be waited on first. The dissatisfaction with time and cost of hiring more waiters etc would offset any increase in revenue and would not increase profits at all.

 

My comments are based on being a cook for 15 yrs , then teaching

cooking (volume) then Managing the Officers Club at GITMO for over a

year, then being in charge of entire food operation on aircraft carrier for three yrs. YES I have gray hair.

 

I wouldn't be surprized if the people in cruise line headquarters

are monitoring this thread looking for new ideas, possible pitfalls

etc

This has been a great thread and good discussion. We all have good ideas and opinions are plentiful.

 

 

EVERY DAY IS A HOLIDAY AND EVERY MEAL IS A BANQUET

 

ENJOY!

[sail7seas]

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hflors

Question: Why should the cruise lines have ships with these big beautiful formal dining rooms when most people do not even like to dress? We hear it here on CC how people don't want big fancy dining experiences that they are required to dress for. They just want to go the an area like the food court at the local mall. Pick out what they want to eat and go back to what ever they decide to do that night. They don't want to take the time to shower, dress and show up for a big fancy dinner. The dining rooms as they are set up on today's ship take up a tremendous amount of space and could easily be converted into several smaller dining resturaunts and people could book and eat in different ones each night of their cruise. (each with a charge of course)? Then the buffet could be used for the pre-paid food and the space where you now have the speciality resturaunts could be used for some other income producing enterprise.

 

 

 

That does not describe what we want and how we wish to dine. We want a fine dining room and do not want a Food Court by any description. We have never had dinner at the buffet but for once or twice when we went to the deck barbeque.

 

We do dress for dinner as we do in a hotel if we dine in the hotel's dining room.

 

A ship's dining room can be used with all food included in the fare or with pay as you go method IMO

 

If you want a burger or pizza, absolutely fine. There is a buffet and a burger bar for that. If you want a sit down, white tablecloth, crystal and nice flatware/dinnerset that, too, should remain available on any cruise ship I wish to sail.

 

You seem to want to paint us all as not wanting the formal dinner or wanting to dress. That only describes some but not even the majority IMO We see the MDR is well populated every night. People are still dining there most nights of their cruise..... or in the alternative extra charge restaurants which in most cases provide even a higher level of service/selection.

 

[isujim]

The bottom line is nobody knows what is going to happen in the near and far future. I understand that sail7seas was asking for OUR thoughts as to what that future might entail.

 

I'm sure that as we speak, all cruise lines are in a big think tank as to how they can increase revenues without turning off current customers. That is the nature of public companies that are bottom line oriented.

 

I agree with sail7seas that we enjoy a fine dining experience.....and certainly not a food court type of atmosphere.

 

Wherever the powers that be lead the next generation of cruising in an effort to increase profits, we will all be faced with deciding if those changes are what we want in a cruise experience.

 

I really believe as another poster posted the day will come when you walk into the dining room and everything will have a price. I personally hope it doesn't come to that, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

 

In time, I think each cruiser will have to put a pencil to it and decide if cruising still makes economical sense for the vacation you recieve in return.

 

I also believe that time may be coming sooner than we think. JMO

[navybankerteacher]

The complications involved in having true a la carte dining may prevent its introduction. What I see as a more likely evolution is one towards lower quality and fewer choices in the MDR, with a parallel increase in speciality dining venues. This really is what has been happening in recent years, and is likely to continue. There will probably always be as cafeteria "food court" option, and I suspect the "free" included MDR menu will be culled down to a minimal selection of lower quality food.

[sail7seas]

The complications involved in having true a la carte dining may prevent its introduction. What I see as a more likely evolution is one towards lower quality and fewer choices in the MDR, with a parallel increase in speciality dining venues. This really is what has been happening in recent years, and is likely to continue. There will probably always be as cafeteria "food court" option, and I suspect the "free" included MDR menu will be culled down to a minimal selection of lower quality food.

 

 

I am inclined to agree with you.

That seems the most likely and easiest transition. Think of the revenue producing things they can do with all that dining room space. Turn it into smaller eating venues, all of which are pay as you go but for a small area for 'MDR included in the fare'.

 

I wonder which cruise line will be the first to come out of the boatyard with minimal space for MDR, no additional cost area?

 

My guess........ NCL

 

<snip>

 

 

I really believe as another poster posted the day will come when you walk into the dining room and everything will have a price. I personally hope it doesn't come to that, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

 

In time, I think each cruiser will have to put a pencil to it and decide if cruising still makes economical sense for the vacation you recieve in return.

 

I also believe that time may be coming sooner than we think. JMO

 

 

 

 

 

I think those decisions are being made 'while we speak'. I think it the near future; not the distant future.

 

[navybankerteacher]

 

I am inclined to agree with you.

That seems the most likely and easiest transition. Think of the revenue producing things they can do with all that dining room space. Turn it into smaller eating venues, all of which are pay as you go but for a small area for 'MDR included in the fare'.

 

I wonder which cruise line will be the first to come out of the boatyard with minimal space for MDR, no additional cost area?

 

My guess........ NCL

 

<snip>

 

 

I think those decisions are being made 'while we speak'. I think it the near future; not the distant future.

 

I agree that it would most probably be the "innovative" NCL to introduce that enhancement of the Freestyle concept. The other mass market lines would likely follow in short order: the evolution over just the past dozen years shows how quickly things change.

[mr green]

I am of the opinion that most things that I dislike about cruising originated with NCL, and to think that when I first started cruising I enjoyed the line.

 

john

[slidergirl]

AHOY SHIPMATES

 

Didnt mean to sound abrupt with a YES .

 

Almost all of the pitfalls have been mentioned several times in the previous posts. It boils down to TIME & Personnel due to the large number of passengers eating at the same time and all wanting to be waited on first. The dissatisfaction with time and cost of hiring more waiters etc would offset any increase in revenue and would not increase profits at all.

 

My comments are based on being a cook for 15 yrs , then teaching

cooking (volume) then Managing the Officers Club at GITMO for over a

year, then being in charge of entire food operation on aircraft carrier for three yrs. YES I have gray hair.

 

I wouldn't be surprized if the people in cruise line headquarters

are monitoring this thread looking for new ideas, possible pitfalls

etc

This has been a great thread and good discussion. We all have good ideas and opinions are plentiful.

 

 

EVERY DAY IS A HOLIDAY AND EVERY MEAL IS A BANQUET

 

ENJOY!

 

It wouldn't be any different, I think, than what it is now. They would just add a price to each item on the current menu. The kitchen wouldn't be affected, since it's the same menu and service shouldn't change. It would be at the point of entry of the order where something would change. Then, the server would swipe the sign & sail card at the end of the dinner.

[LandlockedCruiser01]

I'll stop cruising if all food becomes an expense, even if all restaurants, with the buffet remaining free. But I doubt it'll happen. After all, AI's have no-charge food, even specialty restaurants, so if cruise lines were to compete with them successfully, they have no real choice but to offer at least some complimentary food.

 

Here are two things that probably haven't been mentioned. One, free/included food is a form of "paying it forward" for the cruise lines. Namely, if people are getting virtually unlimited food without paying extra for it, they may be more willing to purchase drinks, photos, etc., having the mindset of "hey, I just all this free food". So, if the cruise lines start charging for food, passengers will be more stingy with spending on real revenue centers: alcohol, photos, spas, etc. So cruise lines are better off eating the costs of gluttonous passengers (pardon the pun), and making back the money via the revenue generators.

 

Two, not having to spend extra on food (unless you choose to eat in the steakhouse and such) puts people in a happy, carefree mindset that makes cruising the great vacation that it is. If people have to watch their spending on something they need to live (and don't have a choice of walking to a local grocery store), then it ruins the whole point of cruising. The basic needs are no longer met, at least not without having to pay for them. And the relaxed, not to mention unique, atmosphere of cruising as we know it is lost. It becomes no different than a glorified bus tour, where someone drives but everybody pays for their own meals.

[SeagoingMom]

I am of the opinion that most things that I dislike about cruising originated with NCL, and to think that when I first started cruising I enjoyed the line.

 

john

I presume based on this thread that one of the things you dislike about cruising that originated with NCL is their dining system -- no fixed seating, and many alternative restaurants?

 

Although it may be a little off-topic, I would love to have you describe the other things you dislike that originated with NCL. I have not cruised NCL so I am trying to find out everything I can about the line.

[mr green]

I presume based on this thread that one of the things you dislike about cruising that originated with NCL is their dining system -- no fixed seating, and many alternative restaurants?

 

Although it may be a little off-topic, I would love to have you describe the other things you dislike that originated with NCL. I have not cruised NCL so I am trying to find out everything I can about the line.

 

About four years ago it was reported that the main cruise lines except for NCL spent between $13 to $15 per person per day on food. NCL $7.20!!!From reports on NCL nothing seems to have changed.

 

john

[antique sailor]

AHOY SHIPMATES,

Can you imagine the bookkeeping increase involved ? the increase of mistakes in billing, cost of scanners for each waiter in mdr and slowdown at buffet with cashregister

(no cash) at end of each line at noon and security increase to prevent theft of slices of bread or extra salt or cream/sugar in coffee, beverage dispensers. etc etc. etc etc . I don't think it will happen in this age of reduction of overhead and crew era.

[boogs]

There sure are a lot of paranoid people posting on this thread! Me, I'll worry about it IF it happens, and not waste my time now trying to convince myself that it will.

[SantaFeFan]

About four years ago it was reported that the main cruise lines except for NCL spent between $13 to $15 per person per day on food. NCL $7.20!!!From reports on NCL nothing seems to have changed

 

NCL - Nothing Classy Line

[Haoie]

I'll stop cruising if all food becomes an expense, even if all restaurants, with the buffet remaining free. But I doubt it'll happen. After all, AI's have no-charge food, even specialty restaurants, so if cruise lines were to compete with them successfully, they have no real choice but to offer at least some complimentary food.

 

Here are two things that probably haven't been mentioned. One, free/included food is a form of "paying it forward" for the cruise lines. Namely, if people are getting virtually unlimited food without paying extra for it, they may be more willing to purchase drinks, photos, etc., having the mindset of "hey, I just all this free food". So, if the cruise lines start charging for food, passengers will be more stingy with spending on real revenue centers: alcohol, photos, spas, etc. So cruise lines are better off eating the costs of gluttonous passengers (pardon the pun), and making back the money via the revenue generators.

 

Two, not having to spend extra on food (unless you choose to eat in the steakhouse and such) puts people in a happy, carefree mindset that makes cruising the great vacation that it is. If people have to watch their spending on something they need to live (and don't have a choice of walking to a local grocery store), then it ruins the whole point of cruising. The basic needs are no longer met, at least not without having to pay for them. And the relaxed, not to mention unique, atmosphere of cruising as we know it is lost. It becomes no different than a glorified bus tour, where someone drives but everybody pays for their own meals.

 

Best response yet, and the most sensible!

[navybankerteacher]

A "pay as you eat" plan would entail a fair amount of extra work for waiters who would have to get signatures on every diner's chit - and the diners would take a lot more time scanning a much higher cost item than that for an occasional drink. Simply put, the program would require substantially more wait staff.

 

Because included meals is a deeply entrenched part of the cruise experience, I doubt lines would switch to such a la carte meals --- they are, however, likely to continue downgrading MDR and Lido food quality and expanding pay "specialty" restaurants.

[luddite]

The complications involved in having true a la carte dining may prevent its introduction. What I see as a more likely evolution is one towards lower quality and fewer choices in the MDR, with a parallel increase in speciality dining venues. This really is what has been happening in recent years, and is likely to continue. There will probably always be as cafeteria "food court" option, and I suspect the "free" included MDR menu will be culled down to a minimal selection of lower quality food.

 

The reduced menu and lower quality are already in force. It truly cannot get much lower.

[boogs]

The reduced menu and lower quality are already in force. It truly cannot get much lower.

 

This depends on the cruise line. According to CruiseCritic reader's choice, Celebrity consistently rates at the top, year after year, with this year having six of the top ten in the large ship category, including first, second and fourth places, and two of the top six in the medium ship category. These ratings are by your fellow CC members, not some marketing company.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/cruiserschoice_index.cfm?category=Dining&sort=large