So What Now?

[chengkp75]

Yes I realise the difference in notifying and logging.Was trying to keep it simple.

I have read the whole report and not logged was a single crew member on 3 different days.I don't know whether it was one particular crew member on each occasion or 3 different crew members.If just one it may have course been another problem and not a case of gastroenteritis.

Again the only incidence of gastro being reported to the CDC is the episode in 2004 on the Shadow.

I also checked here-

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/outbreaks2013.html

 

Which will pick up at least some of those episodes that occur elsewhere in the world and no other mentions of Silverseas.

So I went back and looked up all the SS ships inspected by the CDC and there is only one other incidence of a score under 90-88 by the Wind in 1996.

If you are going to change cruise lines it might be in order to check those out.Some do not do well either.

As far as I can tell there are only 2 ships that have never scored below 100-both operated by Disney.But if you read here-

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/events.html

 

There are other problems on Disney that might be a turn off.

I am not excusing what happened on the Shadow.It is inexcusable.But if you want a risk free vacation the best decision may be not to give up on Silverseas but give up cruising period.

 

Agree with most of your points, but for risk free, maybe you better quit vacationing at all, since Yellowstone National Park just had an outbreak of noro last month.

 

Yes, there were only a couple of logged instances of G-I that were not logged properly, but that brings up a question to me of whether there were cases that were not logged at all. Also, I don't know if SS charges for medical center services, but I know of instances where folks were sick towards the end of the cruise, and didn't go to medical because they didn't want to be charged, but eventually got so sick they had to go (this is on other lines). So, some cases never get reported at all. Not saying that SS is bad overall, or that other lines are perfect, but the evidence of the USPH report is of a corporate culture that disdains sanitation oversight.

[5waldos]

Another reason some people do not visit the medical clinic is that they can be quarentined in their cabin. A lot of people would rather tough it out for a day or two and avoid this possibility.

 

There is mention in one of the reports that SS does not report incidences of illness to the CDC.

 

And I certainly am not looking for risk free travel but am careful about at least trying to be in places that I feel are working with me to keep illness to a minimum.

[drron29]

Definitely not all cases of gastro will be reported either due to cost or quarantine just as 5waldos says.This will be on all cruise ships.

Inuitively I would feel the cost issue would not be as frequent on the high end cruise lines.

Also the illness can be misdiagnosed.On one cruise the doctor was blaming the malaria prophylactic drugs for the symptoms even though there were others not taking the drug with the same symptoms.

However we can only judge by what is on the official record.But"Food poisoning"is a very emotive subject.Because of that it is quite likely that most outbreaks on board these days will have a passenger posting on some form of social media and that will then be picked up by sites such as cruisejunkie.

Also not all outbreaks of gastro are not because of a problem with the ship.There were 5-6 cases on our recent voyage in Africa.But all I talked to had the same item at lunch which most others avoided and the symptoms began about 2 hours after the lunch.

Outbreaks of gastro are also much easier to detect on ships as you are a captive audience.Not so easy on land as people usually come from diverse places to eat in a restaurant for example.

Many of the outbreaks are probably caused by a passenger embarking with the bug and not taking the proper precautions-and by that I mean properly washing their hands which is still much more effective than the use of sanitisers.

Just this week I got into trouble for not using the sanitisers between patients until I pointed out that I didn't use the sanitiser because I washed my hands each time.

[Travelcat2]

Yeah they might be fine in this area but you have to wonder if there will be another area they will cut corners on.

 

In other words whatever drove this issue could drive another area.

 

What were they thinking?

 

Keith

 

You are the cruising expert (IMO)..... do you think a credit card company (like Amex) would consider refunding a passenger's money based on what has occurred? Just a thought.

 

Thanks.

[Keith1010]

You are the cruising expert (IMO)..... do you think a credit card company (like Amex) would consider refunding a passenger's money based on what has occurred? Just a thought.

 

Thanks.

 

That is an excellent question.

 

My thought is that I don't think in this case the card companies would refund a credit for this for those who completed their sailing with Silversea.

 

Thank you also for your very nice comment.

 

Keith

[UKCruiseJeff]

That is an excellent question.

 

My thought is that I don't think in this case the card companies would refund a credit for this for those who completed their sailing with Silversea.

 

Thank you also for your very nice comment.

 

Keith

 

 

You most certainly ARE an expert Keith! You made me think ....:)

 

For what it's worth for UK based people, Credit Card companies are jointly responsible with the supplier of goods for the perfomance of services and goods and consumers in the UK reoutinely get refunds from credit card companies for services and products that "go wrong". This is under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act - a summary is here:

 

http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/individual/consumer-credit-act.asp

 

I also think that people in the UK have a reasonable chance of claiming the full return of their deposits if they pursued it. Not a full description of the reason but essentially a judge would ask whether the very simple test ie "if a person knew when they booked what they now know, would they have booked the cruise".

 

If the answer to that simple question is probably "no" then the product being offered has materially changed from the one that was booked which would possibly allow a consumer to cancel - purely in my opinion at the moment as I do not know if it hasever been "tested". What has changed is the reasonable degree of increased concern they may have for their personal safety.

 

In practice - it would never get that far as SS would quietly pay up and hope no one else gets to hear and therefore an avalanche of refunds. Going the full way to court invites publicity that informs more customers than quietly paying up "ex-gratia" refunds sometimes with a "non disclosure" demand. That is how it invariably works in the UK.

 

Just an opionion. :)

[5waldos]

However, credit card companies sometimes have set up special arrangements about refund issues. Here in the states many require that you deal with the airlines directly about refunds- they will not or cannot charge back things. I do not know if the same is true for cruises. I know this because I had been triple charged for some upgraded seats on Delta/KLM and after doing battle with them to get a refund, finally called Amex for resolution. They told me that I had to work directly with the airlines. (End of this story- finally did get my money refunded but it was a major hassle.)

[UKCruiseJeff]

However, credit card companies sometimes have set up special arrangements about refund issues. Here in the states many require that you deal with the airlines directly about refunds- they will not or cannot charge back things. I do not know if the same is true for cruises. I know this because I had been triple charged for some upgraded seats on Delta/KLM and after doing battle with them to get a refund, finally called Amex for resolution. They told me that I had to work directly with the airlines. (End of this story- finally did get my money refunded but it was a major hassle.)

 

Great shame it works like that.

 

In the UK, on complex issues sometimes Amex will conduct a three way call to see if things can be resolved. On simple issues as long as they have no issue with your reason they apply an immediate charge- back and place he emphasis or onus on the trader to fight fo it. It does seem a fairer way to me.

[Merriem]

Great shame it works like that.

 

In the UK, on complex issues sometimes Amex will conduct a three way call to see if things can be resolved. On simple issues as long as they have no issue with your reason they apply an immediate charge- back and place he emphasis or onus on the trader to fight fo it. It does seem a fairer way to me.

 

I have to say I am disappointed in AMEX platinum. They really are not helpful. We have a Ritz Carlton card, and I must say they are much nicer to work with, and are much more personal. You do have to push 10 buttons to get someone. You call, and they answer. Just my feedback on two cards in the US.

[Travelcat2]

I phrased my question a bit incorrectly. Wondering if Amex would allow us to cancel the cruise in advance and get our money back (without the penalty)? Probably a lost cause:-)

[Keith1010]

I phrased my question a bit incorrectly. Wondering if Amex would allow us to cancel the cruise in advance and get our money back (without the penalty)? Probably a lost cause:-)

 

Now that is more of a possibility in my opinion.

 

I would discuss with Amex.

 

Keith

[UKCruiseJeff]

It's worth asking but I suspect it is unlikely.

[5waldos]

Great shame it works like that.

 

In the UK, on complex issues sometimes Amex will conduct a three way call to see if things can be resolved. On simple issues as long as they have no issue with your reason they apply an immediate charge- back and place he emphasis or onus on the trader to fight fo it. It does seem a fairer way to me.

 

Only for a very limited number of cases- airlines being one of them. Which leads me to suspect that cruises may be the same but it is certainly worth calling and talking to them. They have usually been very helpful- just that one time when it was a problem.

[chengkp75]

Only for a very limited number of cases- airlines being one of them. Which leads me to suspect that cruises may be the same but it is certainly worth calling and talking to them. They have usually been very helpful- just that one time when it was a problem.

 

Airlines, like cruise lines, are classified as common carriers, and therefore have special laws with regards to consumers. However, the Athens Convention on passengers at sea, may have some ability to trump US common carrier laws.

[wripro]

I agree it's worth a shot, TC2, but also do not consider it likely.

[Travelcat2]

I agree it's worth a shot, TC2, but also do not consider it likely.

 

I would just like to know that answer. Almost two years ago, we made arrangements to meet some people on board that we sailed with previously (on Regent). It would be a shame to cancel at this late date.

[5waldos]

Just call them. Unless you aren't certain you are ready to cancel. The worst they can say is that they cannot help you.

[npj57]

My family traveled on Celebrity Xpedition December 2012 to Galapagos. My husband and I traveled to Antarctica on the Silver Explorer in December 2011. I have not been on the new Silversea Galapogos ship. The Explorer was much more luxurious and every detail of our trip was handled perfectly. The Xpedition was good but the staff on the Explorer were much more professional. The food on on the Explorer was much better and there was greater variety. The cabin on the Explorer was vastly better. Of course the cost of our Explorer trip was almost three times as much, but In my opinion worth it. My family enjoyed our Cellebrity Xpedition cruise very much, I am not knocking it. it it just doesn't compare with the Explorer.

[UKCruiseJeff]

You are the cruising expert (IMO)..... do you think a credit card company (like Amex) would consider refunding a passenger's money based on what has occurred? Just a thought.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Hi,

 

What has really suprised me is that some of the competitors haven't been a touch more inventive and imaginitive.

 

As many of these bookings are fairly imminent - you think they might offer a "defectors rate" ie for those that are discontented and with a current booking with a deposit fee penalty on cancellation - a discount contribution towards it on competitor cruise. This would offer them the opportunity of winning some long-term serial cruisers with some entry-in offers that could be very profitable for them compared with the normal cost of securing new customers via marketing. They could win some really meaty long-term customers at a fairly low one off cost.

 

Perhaps someone in the situation should suggest it to some of the other lines via their TA.

 

Just a thought! :)

 

Jeff

[Merriem]

Hi,

 

What has really suprised me is that some of the competitors haven't been a touch more inventive and imaginitive.

 

As many of these bookings are fairly imminent - you think they might offer a "defectors rate" ie for those that are discontented and with a current booking with a deposit fee penalty on cancellation - a discount contribution towards it on competitor cruise. This would offer them the opportunity of winning some long-term serial cruisers with some entry-in offers that could be very profitable for them compared with the normal cost of securing new customers via marketing. They could win some really meaty long-term customers at a fairly low one off cost.

 

Perhaps someone in the situation should suggest it to some of the other lines via their TA.

 

Just a thought! :)

 

Jeff

 

That is exactly what my TA said. I would take that up in a heartbeat. Apparently the other luxury lines are not too aggressive.

[UKCruiseJeff]

That is exactly what my TA said. I would take that up in a heartbeat. Apparently the other luxury lines are not too aggressive.

 

"not too aggressive=clueless"

 

QED

 

:rolleyes:

[Merriem]

Here is the problem with changing.....

 

1. Have airline tickets

 

2. Have house and dog sitter

 

3. Have hotels front and back of cruise

 

So, maybe these do not seem like a big deal, but it is, and you really feel like you do not have any options...

[UKCruiseJeff]

Here is the problem with changing.....

 

1. Have airline tickets

 

2. Have house and dog sitter

 

3. Have hotels front and back of cruise

 

So, maybe these do not seem like a big deal, but it is, and you really feel like you do not have any options...

 

I do feel genuinely .... but you do have options. You have as a matter of "principle" discarded the main one. It is a horrible option - I know. But spending a shed load more cash on something that seems on your postings that will likely cause you to be even unhappier might appear to someone not in your shoes to be very stubborn and perplexing. Trying to win every battle in life inevitably means losing some of the obvious ones you should have walked away from.

 

From your postings you seem to have the cash to be able to write this down to a one off adverse experience and move on. If you don't want to - i certainly get that - but the option does exist. So decide, and optimise your choice and progress. When yuo've worked really hard for every penny - I know this approach is extra tough.

 

Be gentle with me because I am merely a Devils Advocat ie a Snowball.

 

.

 

:)

[Merriem]

I do feel genuinely .... but you do have options. You have as a matter of "principle" discarded the main one. It is a horrible option - I know. But spending a shed load more cash on something that seems on your postings that will likely cause you to be even unhappier might appear to someone not in your shoes to be very stubborn and perplexing. Trying to win every battle in life inevitably means losing some of the obvious ones you should have walked away from.

 

From your postings you seem to have the cash to be able to write this down to a one off adverse experience and move on. If you don't want to - i certainly get that - but the option does exist. So decide, and optimise your choice and progress.

 

Be gentle with me because I am merely a Devils Advocat ie a Snowball.

 

:)

 

Being gentle. It is the point of the whole thing. I REFUSE to give them one dime of my money. It doesn't matter how much money you have or don't have..you do not walk away from airline tickets and 15% of your cash. I am not stressed about it anymore, but I don't think that Warren Buffet would walk away from a dime. People make plans, and lots of factors enter in. I own my own business, and that week, combined with our birthdays, is what works for us. I have looked and the other major players in the luxury cruises, and nothing fits into our schedule. Trust me, I have checked it out. I made these reservations last February thinking that Silversea would have improved. Maybe it will be a delightful cruise. However I am not impressed at all with the way they have not handled this issue. Yes, things happen, but as some one posted earlier, that woman that took over the company really did not show any leadership, and that stinks. We will most likely go, but it does leave a sour feeling. I know there are many people in the same position, maybe don't say much about it, but I do not think anyone would have expected this nasty situation to arise .

[UKCruiseJeff]

Being gentle. It is the point of the whole thing. I REFUSE to give them one dime of my money. It doesn't matter how much money you have or don't have..you do not walk away from airline tickets and 15% of your cash. I am not stressed about it anymore, but I don't think that Warren Buffet would walk away from a dime. People make plans, and lots of factors enter in. I own my own business, and that week, combined with our birthdays, is what works for us. I have looked and the other major players in the luxury cruises, and nothing fits into our schedule. Trust me, I have checked it out. I made these reservations last February thinking that Silversea would have improved. Maybe it will be a delightful cruise. However I am not impressed at all with the way they have not handled this issue. Yes, things happen, but as some one posted earlier, that woman that took over the company really did not show any leadership, and that stinks. We will most likely go, but it does leave a sour feeling. I know there are many people in the same position, maybe don't say much about it, but I do not think anyone would have expected this nasty situation to arise .

 

Then my strategy in your place and with my take on your concerns - funnily enough with input from " the wife" who is equally sympathetic to your take of your position.

 

On one of our earlier cruises we had a couple of back to backs that I believe left us on board for 22 or 23 days or so. As you may have gathered, the overall experience is fine for is. It's just the food and wine we had issues with.

 

This didn't fit well when I think I previously suggested. It's all about moderating expectations pragmatically. Play to win. Your game - your rules

 

What we did was think of the ship as being the hotel and do what we do in hotels and eat out whenever we could and use room service for the gaps. It added very little to cost and we enjoyed it thoroughly. Every lunch in a taverna or other small local place. Every meal memorable. What are you losing? At nights we specified sandwiches - even taught them to make "salad cream":eek:

 

So I suggest you just mould a merriem solution to a less than optimal problem. Not certain I have anything more to offer other than sympathy and empathy.

 

.