Sorry ! Tipping Query....

[CharlesSilver]

First off, I'm a novice, having just returned from my first cruise.

Took the advice from fellow passengers of removing the statutory $12 per day tips from my account, reasoning (I thought rationally) that as our party were benefitting differently from individual staff we would assign the tips accordingly.

Having now read through various threads, it seems that what I've effectively done is penalise, not reward the staff as the "tips" actually comprise the bulk of their "wages"

I'm scratching my head here why a company like Royal Caribbean can't build into the holiday price the appropriate overhead to cover their staff costs, so good service (which I most certainly received) can be rewarded with additional tips from their guests.

Am I missing something here? As from the threads I've read it seems as if the guests are effectively responsible for paying the wages of the service staff.

 

Would really appreciate someone to post an honest reply to this.

Thanks

[ticktoneer]

First off, I'm a novice, having just returned from my first cruise.

Took the advice from fellow passengers of removing the statutory $12 per day tips from my account, reasoning (I thought rationally) that as our party were benefitting differently from individual staff we would assign the tips accordingly.

Having now read through various threads, it seems that what I've effectively done is penalise, not reward the staff as the "tips" actually comprise the bulk of their "wages"

I'm scratching my head here why a company like Royal Caribbean can't build into the holiday price the appropriate overhead to cover their staff costs, so good service (which I most certainly received) can be rewarded with additional tips from their guests.

Am I missing something here? As from the threads I've read it seems as if the guests are effectively responsible for paying the wages of the service staff.

 

Would really appreciate someone to post an honest reply to this.

Thanks

Yes we are effectively responsible for paying some of the staff's wages. This is just how the cruise industry works.

 

I agree with you about adding tips into the cost, however I doubt this will happen with the big major lines who are so competitive with each other as none will want to push prices up.

 

Hope you had a great cruise :-)

[CharlesSilver]

Thanks.

Have to say that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Maybe I'm naive but just seems like they're enforcing a wages lottery on their employees and withholding this information from the guests.

I will know for next time, although what's to say, they actually distribute the statutory tips as they say they do? As by that logic the 15% service charge added on in the bars would be going to the barman and not the house.

[Merion_Mom]

First off, I'm a novice, having just returned from my first cruise.

Took the advice from fellow passengers of removing the statutory $12 per day tips from my account, reasoning (I thought rationally) that as our party were benefitting differently from individual staff we would assign the tips accordingly.

Having now read through various threads, it seems that what I've effectively done is penalise, not reward the staff as the "tips" actually comprise the bulk of their "wages"

I'm scratching my head here why a company like Royal Caribbean can't build into the holiday price the appropriate overhead to cover their staff costs, so good service (which I most certainly received) can be rewarded with additional tips from their guests.

Am I missing something here? As from the threads I've read it seems as if the guests are effectively responsible for paying the wages of the service staff.

 

Would really appreciate someone to post an honest reply to this.

Thanks

 

Well, they thought that they were doing that with the daily charge on your SeaPass.

 

But you cancelled that.

[CharlesSilver]

Erm... No

As I've made patently clear in the body of my first post, that wasn't made evident or even implied. The holiday price advertised did NOT include the add ons, point I'm making was it would've been a lot clearer if it had of done.

[jackdiamond]

It is quite simplistic; those, who use their culture as a reason for not tipping are just looking for an excuse to stiff the staff. By the way, the culture in the U.S.A., is to drive on the right side of the road.

[killtheump]

Erm... No

As I've made patently clear in the body of my first post, that wasn't made evident or even implied. The holiday price advertised did NOT include the add ons, point I'm making was it would've been a lot clearer if it had of done.

 

I do know that on the US site it is perfectly clear maybe not on the UK site I don't know. In the US we are used to tipping for good service and have no problem with it. Sorry but Marion Mom is exactly right you were charged and you decided to take them off. Please next time leave the tips alone, the staff works hard to make your cruise great.

[CharlesSilver]

Ah, how silly of me. Many thanks ******* Diamond for your highly reasoned response. I should have known it was a cultural thing.

That explains everything.

[Cruising89143]

Well, they thought that they were doing that with the daily charge on your SeaPass.

 

But you cancelled that.

 

Agree.

 

I also do not worry if the gratuities are being split up correctly by the cruise lines. That's between the cruise line and the crew. If the crew members were not being paid then I can assure you that they would not stick around.

 

Now you know how the world of cruising works, no excuses in the future for taking away from those that insure you have a great cruise vacation.

[CharlesSilver]

I do know that on the US site it is perfectly clear maybe not on the UK site I don't know. In the US we are used to tipping for good service and have no problem with it. Sorry but Marion Mom is exactly right you were charged and you decided to take them off. Please next time leave the tips alone, the staff works hard to make your cruise great.

 

I'm not disputing the staff work extremely hard, just questioning why the guests and not their employers are responsible for paying them.

Surely it's not that difficult to differentiate the two distinct points of my post?

[CharlesSilver]

Agree.

 

I also do not worry if the gratuities are being split up correctly by the cruise lines. That's between the cruise line and the crew. If the crew members were not being paid then I can assure you that they would not stick around.

 

Now you know how the world of cruising works, no excuses in the future for taking away from those that insure you have a great cruise vacation.

 

WOW

Absolutely missing the point - which was that those unfamiliar with the protocol are not aware of these apparently obvious (to you) policies

:bangs head:

[MrsPete]

I totally agree that it would be better if the cruise line were to simply include the cost of tips in the cruise plan. That, however, will not happen because it would make the price appear higher.

 

Until this changes, trying to alter the system they've put in place only results in injury to the hard-working staff.

[gerif]

I'm not disputing the staff work extremely hard, just questioning why the guests and not their employers are responsible for paying them.

Surely it's not that difficult to differentiate the two distinct points of my post?

 

Guests are responsible one way or the other. The industry norm is to supplement their otherwise meager pay via tips - otherwise, your cruise fare would be increased by the appropriate amount and the cruise line would then pay more to the staff. Guess we in the U.S. are just used to this as this is how it works in our restaurants. I believe in your culture a service charge is added - same difference though. Sorry your cruise documents did not explain this properly for you - but I'm even more sorry for the staff who were deprived of wages by what you did.

[Cruising89143]

WOW

Absolutely missing the point - which was that those unfamiliar with the protocol are not aware of these apparently obvious (to you) policies

:bangs head:

 

Missing what point? You're the one that commented on tips being handed out to the correct crew members. I commented.

 

You commented about not understanding how tipping was handled. Now you know and I commented. Not missing anything.;)

[killtheump]

I'm not disputing the staff work extremely hard, just questioning why the guests and not their employers are responsible for paying them.

Surely it's not that difficult to differentiate the two distinct points of my post?

 

It is obvious that you just cannot understand tipping. Yes it is a difference in culture. In the US we do have many careers that basically rely on tips. Our waitresses live on tips, they receive a very low dollar per hour wage. $2.50 per hour I believe. So they need tips to survive. I know it is different in the UK and I try to follow their cultural things there, I would hope people would from the UK would try to abide by our culture when here or cruising from the US. Really not that hard.

[CharlesSilver]

I totally agree that it would be better if the cruise line were to simply include the cost of tips in the cruise plan. That, however, will not happen because it would make the price appear higher.

 

Until this changes, trying to alter the system they've put in place only results in injury to the hard-working staff.

 

Thanks

Nice to have a sensible answer - Lesson learnt for me - but no doubt many many others made the same call. Even if they weren't called tips it would help, to me a tip is an EXTRA payment, not a basic payment

[WpgCruise]

In the cruise world, the custom of service staff having the bulk of their wages comprised of Tips is a long established practice. Many agree, the cruise lines should simply raise the price of the cruise by the $12 per day amount, or whatever the amount, and pay the service staff from that. Same for bar service, just raise the price of the drink by 15%, and pay the service people from that

 

In a simple world that would make sense, but for a variety of reasons it probably won't happen soon on the mass market lines. These reasons are all well documented on this site and others and I won't sludge through them all at this post.

 

Bottom line, it is what it is. Such is the custom of the mass market cruise lines and as the old saying goes "When in Rome..............."

 

There are cruise lines that have a higher base fare, or perhaps lesser ships, lesser service, or any combination and no tipping is expected. Your Travel Agent is the best source of information on both options.

 

It is too bad that you took the daily tip amount off because as other have posted, you did penalize the people who served you. It also may have had some additional effect, as I suspect when the daily Tip is removed from a guest account, the Steward/Waiter et al are questioned by their Managers as to why the guest has removed their Tip as this is usually only done by a guest as a protest against the service provided.

 

Oh, one more thing. I notice you are new here to Cruise Critic, welcome. You may be somewhat taken aback by some of the comments to your post. In my opinion, some are rude just because they can be, others rude because they perhaps don't understand their words may be perceived as harsh, and some are rude .....well........to be blunt.....because they need their medication adjusted. Whatever the reason if you don't care to read their comments, the offensive poster can be added to your ignore list (See User CP at the beginning of the page) and once added you need never read their posts again, unless someone else quotes them.

[CharlesSilver]

It is obvious that you just cannot understand tipping. Yes it is a difference in culture. In the US we do have many careers that basically rely on tips. Our waitresses live on tips, they receive a very low dollar per hour wage. $2.50 per hour I believe. So they need tips to survive. I know it is different in the UK and I try to follow their cultural things there, I would hope people would from the UK would try to abide by our culture when here or cruising from the US. Really not that hard.

 

This was a European cruise, marketed in the UK - why would USA culture play any part in customer habits or perception?

[BeachChik]

I'm not disputing the staff work extremely hard, just questioning why the guests and not their employers are responsible for paying them.

Surely it's not that difficult to differentiate the two distinct points of my post?

 

Because they work off the US system which says service positions get tipped. It's not any different then dining at a US restaurant. The servers work for tips.

 

Agree or not, this is the system cruise lines have adopted and they add them to your account for convenience. Yes you can remove them as you did, but I don't see why anyone would. The cost of tips is such a tiny amount of money vs the cost of the cruise. And for the most part the staff does a great job.

[Merion_Mom]

By the way, CharlesSilver, welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

Thank you for bringing your warm and open attitude to this message board of people who love cruising. Feel free to explore all of the various threads and topics. In addition, there is a search feature, which can be accessed using the tab at the top right of the main Royal Caribbean page. Try search terms "tipping" "tips" or "gratuities". You will find many comments, opinions, arguments and conversations. You can read to your heart's content for many many many days.

 

:)

[CharlesSilver]

thanks for response - As I said earlier it wasn't a case of NOT tipping, but of tipping who we felt appropriate as, for example some of the younger members utilised different restaurants etc. As you say you live and learn, I'm happy to hear the 15% service charges in the bars go to the bar men

[DragonOfTheSeas]

First off, I'm a novice, having just returned from my first cruise.

Took the advice from fellow passengers of removing the statutory $12 per day tips from my account, reasoning (I thought rationally) that as our party were benefitting differently from individual staff we would assign the tips accordingly.

 

 

Would really appreciate someone to post an honest reply to this.

Thanks

 

All of the above replies are honest.

 

I am not sure what fellow passengers suggested that you remove the daily tips added to your seapass. [was this more than one person? Were they upset with the service? Did the guest services ask you if you were disappointed in the service you received? That appears to be the norm.

 

You say you wanted to assign the tips according to the benefits your party received from each staff member. Did you distribute the sum you removed from your account to the various staff? [even if they were not in the same proportion that RCL would suggest] If not --I am not buying you did not know better.

 

If RCL did not add the tips to the Seapass card and you did not pay--I MIGHT believe a novice could not know better. But, to remove something that is automatically added means you KNOW it is customary. [or it would not be added automatically]

[BeachChik]

This was a European cruise, marketed in the UK - why would USA culture play any part in customer habits or perception?

 

Because while they are foreign flagged ships they are US based companies. For example royal caribbeans corporate office is in Miami fl. Plus it saves the company money to only pay a small amount to the crew and allow the rest to be made up in tips. Same reason restaurants do it. And the reality is if they were paid based on the US minimum wage they would actually make less then they do working for tips. So it benefits the staff too to work for tips.

[CharlesSilver]

By the way, CharlesSilver, welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

Thank you for bringing your warm and open attitude to this message board of people who love cruising. Feel free to explore all of the various threads and topics. In addition, there is a search feature, which can be accessed using the tab at the top right of the main Royal Caribbean page. Try search terms "tipping" "tips" or "gratuities". You will find many comments, opinions, arguments and conversations. You can read to your heart's content for many many many days.

 

:)

 

Thanks for having me

As your post count testifies, you too must have spent many, many, many days perusing this message board.

As Oscar Wilde so eloquently noted, sarcasm is indeed the lowest form of wit and the highest of intelligence.

I wonder what he would have made of this tipping issue.

[galavant3]

Thanks

Nice to have a sensible answer - Lesson learnt for me - but no doubt many many others made the same call. Even if they weren't called tips it would help, to me a tip is an EXTRA payment, not a basic payment

 

Exactly. We view it as a "service charge" or part of the cruise fare. It isn't something that I give any thought to. I view it the same way I view port charges or government fees and taxes. Just part of the total cost.