Kids on Seadream

[goRRRdon]

This is well put. have your heard anything from SeaDream??

 

No news just the deafening silence.

 

So far this issue has all been about the adults view on children but what about the child's view and their safety.

If a large group wish to bring their children do they seriously consider:

1. Whether children actually want to go on a ship of "old people" where there is nothing to do but swim in the pool (thus rendering the pool a no go area for the vast majority of passengers). Children have been seen sitting at the bar too.

2. What assurances do these parents ask for (trained crew, vetting crew) and what protection does Sea Dream offer ?

3. The safety implications are enormous. I hope the waivers we sign cover for accidents caused due to the un-suitability of the ship or the lack of training for crew for young children (I am reasonably assuming). May I suggest they review their insurance particulars, legal responsibilities (don't they have a duty of care), crew training, safety precautions and get a policy. And may I suggest officers and crew do likewise.

 

So it's not just clients taking the $ 10 K gamble; for the Sea Dream Owner, it's the $ 1,000,000 gamble !

 

Add a fine for irresponsibility for the owner completely ignoring the problem and everyone will lose out.

Lets hope a severe accident does'nt happen in Italian maritime waters.

 

No doubt some of my fellow passengers, may be thinking, this is being alarmist. But somebody has to ask these questions. If Sea Dream were a ferry, you would'nt consider this alarmist. No we go on vacation and absolve ourselves of all responsibility.

[commander courageous]

This thread is "getting a little long in the tooth".

 

Frankly, in the 20 odd trips trips we have enjoyed on Sea Dream, we have felt

far more disenfranchised by loud, unruly, cigar chomping guys and their trophy wives, than we have ever been annoyed by children.

 

Now, should we not expect Sea Dream to rein in these obnoxious guests or

must we continue to tolerate this behaviour from those who feel they paid

their fare so caveat emptor?

[ho-hum]

This thread is "getting a little long in the tooth".

 

Frankly, in the 20 odd trips trips we have enjoyed on Sea Dream, we have felt

far more disenfranchised by loud, unruly, cigar chomping guys and their trophy wives, than we have ever been annoyed by children.

 

Now, should we not expect Sea Dream to rein in these obnoxious guests or

must we continue to tolerate this behaviour from those who feel they paid

their fare so caveat emptor?

 

Its the contributor who sounds "long in the tooth" (I'm right am I not ?).

 

For my part I admit I am loud (only in the praise of the crew) and definitely unruly (thats why I like Sea Dream for the casual atmosphere except when it comes to life boat drill of course) but I would never "chomp" a Cuban cigar (they are to be savoured). The great thing about a Havana is the beautiful earthy aroma which also repel children; the best of both worlds, you see.

And my wife is beaming that she is considered a "trophy" wife ! You are too kind.

 

And yet we agree, there is reason to be cautious these days.

[commander courageous]

Dear Ho Hum,

 

With due respect to you and your beautiful wife, unless you are from Texas or

your daddy is in "oyl", you are neither the cigar chomping oaf nor is your

wife the trophy bride. Sorry!

 

Anyway, do you not agree that often the adults are worse offenders than

the children can ever be? Wish I had recorded some past experiences with

the offending yahoos.

[knotheadusc]

I can agree that sometimes adults are much worse than kids. We had a cigar chomper on our last cruise, though he just seemed more like an arrogant jerk than anything else. On another cruise, I saw a couple of guys go behind the piano bar and help themselves to bourbon. I saw another guy try to call someone outside for a fight... again in the piano bar.

 

That being said, though, people expect adults to be on a SeaDream cruise and if they turn out to be poorly behaved enough, they will be put off the ship. It would be nice if every adult on a cruise acted with civility and didn't get too drunk or act overly entitled. Unfortunately, some people have more money than class.

 

I think what has people most annoyed is that until very recently, SeaDream actually advertised themselves as an adult oriented cruise line. The ships are very small and offer no activities for kids. And when you're paying $10,000+, you don't expect to have to lock yourself in your stateroom for peace and quiet or have to wait for the hot tub to be cleaned up after someone takes a dump in it. You don't expect to not be able to find a stool at the TOY Bar because it's been co-opted by a group of kids.

 

I just don't understand why parents with young kids would choose SeaDream when there are so many choices out there that are more appropriate. I guess "offending yahoos" can reproduce and overlook how their behavior affects other people. Those are probably the ones who bring their unruly kids and don't make them behave.

[ho-hum]

Dear Ho Hum,

 

With due respect to you and your beautiful wife, unless you are from Texas or

your daddy is in "oyl", you are neither the cigar chomping oaf nor is your

wife the trophy bride. Sorry!

 

Anyway, do you not agree that often the adults are worse offenders than

the children can ever be? Wish I had recorded some past experiences with

the offending yahoos.

 

 

Dearest esteemed Commander Courageous (CC),

 

Well you have seen straight through me haven't you !

May I rush to join you on the cherished middle ground of reason and balance.

 

I almost align with you about the behaviour of abhorrent adults over unruly children but unfortunately this thread is about "Kids on Sea Dream" not "Texan, cigar chompin' oyl men" (is it just Texans you cant abide ? May I remind you that several US presidents came from Texas. OK that's a bad example. To all you good old Texans out there, I'm just joking (fingers crossed).

 

May we at least conclude CC that the problem (and sadly there is a big one) relates to irresponsible parents exercising no control of their unruly children.

I have witnessed many examples of good parents exercising control of their children even when their behaviour has been vexing and I am sure our sympathies go out to the parent on these occasions; thats life, we must just get on with it.

 

However the general feeling in this forum is that there is less sympathy when an unruly child appears abandoned by an irresponsible parent and the resulting cacophony ensues.

 

I also must confess to inappropriate behaviour onboard through sheer exuberance of being on such a wonderful ship with such an amazing crew and generally delightful passengers (except for the cigar chompin' kind whether from Texas or Middlesex, whatever sexuality and whichever variation that has been God given). It's the reason we keep going, is'nt it ?

 

I just trust my sporadic outbreaks of exuberance are tolerated by more world wisely guests such as yourself, oh illustrious Commander Courageous.

 

Your simple admirer,

Ho-hum

[JES4845]

OK I hesitate to join in again as the Black Sea voyage we just took that was marred by so many kids is fresh on my mind and I'm trying to put it in the past! I did read the latest postings here with interest and will pass on the issue of adults who misbehave. For what it is worth, the commentaries on whether kids on SD behave or misbehave (and the related role of the parents) miss the key point, in my humble opinion. For me at least, in the end it doesn't matter whether they "behave" or not. Certainly when they misbehave it is a bigger and different problem. But no matter what kids will be kids and it is only a matter of degree of the noise, splashing, etc. Thus, my conclusion is that having ANY children defined as under 18 on board as paying guests is simply incompatible with the advertised nature of a SD voyage. The ship is too small, the activities for kids are non-existent, and there is no way to have kids on board and not hear and see them. It is inherently incompatible with a luxury relaxing vacation to have them around. In addition to being unfair to other paying passengers it is unfair to the hardworking crew. The logical solution is to limit children to specifically designated family friendly voyages such as around holiday times with ALL others not so designated a total kids free zone. Absent such clear delineation one cannot be reasonably assured that the promised product can be delivered on a specific voyage. There are variations of course such as limiting the number of kids per voyage, not allowing large groups of adults to bring kids, etc. We are open to suggestions and hope the tread can focus on practical solutions to help SD management fix the problem. Based on comments from others on our recent kiddy voyage, those of us here aren't alone in not wishing to travel with SD if kids will be present. We can only hope that Miami and Oslo are getting the message. I have shared these thoughts with them and expect a response soon.

[frequent traveler]

JES,

First, thank you for your postings - it has helped us make a decision on what ports we do want to visit in the Black Sea.

Thank you for adding to the inquiries to Norway & Miami. One TA I used said the water sports were being used to sell SD as family friendly, thus it's high ranking last fall as a good option for those wanting fine dining & children in Travel & Leisure. I think the new ratings either came out last week or are due out soon. I'm on a business trip, but will be interested to see how SD fares this year.

 

FT

[goRRRdon]

OK I hesitate to join in again as the Black Sea voyage we just took that was marred by so many kids is fresh on my mind and I'm trying to put it in the past! I did read the latest postings here with interest and will pass on the issue of adults who misbehave. For what it is worth, the commentaries on whether kids on SD behave or misbehave (and the related role of the parents) miss the key point, in my humble opinion. For me at least, in the end it doesn't matter whether they "behave" or not. Certainly when they misbehave it is a bigger and different problem. But no matter what kids will be kids and it is only a matter of degree of the noise, splashing, etc. Thus, my conclusion is that having ANY children defined as under 18 on board as paying guests is simply incompatible with the advertised nature of a SD voyage. The ship is too small, the activities for kids are non-existent, and there is no way to have kids on board and not hear and see them. It is inherently incompatible with a luxury relaxing vacation to have them around. In addition to being unfair to other paying passengers it is unfair to the hardworking crew. The logical solution is to limit children to specifically designated family friendly voyages such as around holiday times with ALL others not so designated a total kids free zone. Absent such clear delineation one cannot be reasonably assured that the promised product can be delivered on a specific voyage. There are variations of course such as limiting the number of kids per voyage, not allowing large groups of adults to bring kids, etc. We are open to suggestions and hope the tread can focus on practical solutions to help SD management fix the problem. Based on comments from others on our recent kiddy voyage, those of us here aren't alone in not wishing to travel with SD if kids will be present. We can only hope that Miami and Oslo are getting the message. I have shared these thoughts with them and expect a response soon.

 

A Sea Dream guide exists:

 

What is SeaDream Yacht Club’s policy regarding children?

 

SeaDream is excellent for couples and friends as well as families with mature, well traveled children aged 13 and older. Adults with children younger than 13 years of age should perhaps consider SeaDream Yacht Club carefully as an option. Children aged 1 or younger are not allowed. We do not have formal children’s programs or baby sitting services available on the yacht. In some cases the children’s nanny or au pair traveling with the family is ideal. When families are on board parents are expected to manage the behavior of their children to ensure that the enjoyment of other guests is in no manner compromised. Guest satisfaction is highly important to SeaDream. The crew has been instructed to immediately inform parents about unacceptable behavior of our younger guests! SeaDream follows local laws as it relates to drinking age and this varies from 18 to 21 years of age.

Families who elect to charter the vessel may set up children’s programs and other children’s services not normally available on regular voyages. Please consult our charter department for further information.

 

So JES you see it is unlikely this will ever be abandoned to above 18 years old only.

 

My question is: is this guide actually enforced by management ?

This issue appears to be worsening.

 

Another consideration. Would you not allow crew to allow their own families onboard even though they are well behaved and the parents act very responsibly ?

[Jim Avery]

That SeaDream "Policy" is all very nice but it should really be prefaced with "Once Upon a Time". It is a fairy tale. We have had a 6month old with its Nanny on board and yes, it did time in the pool.:eek:

[commodoredave]

Reporting live from the Seabourn Pride in the North Sea where we have absolutely no children on board -- neither passenger or crew children. What a lovely adult atmosphere and experience. If our cruise in December aboard SD1 does not match this experience, we will be one-time SD passengers.

[mystro]

If I was so inclined...I'd worry more about wealthy geriatrics having accidents in the pool then the few kids which travel SDYC cruises.

[Zimmy]

If I was so inclined...I'd worry more about wealthy geriatrics having accidents in the pool then the few kids which travel SDYC cruises.

 

Have you ever sailed SD? Reviewing my ten or so voyages with them, I can say that it is the most UN-geriatric of the luxury cruise lines I have sailed, certainly a very different population from Seabourn or Silversea.

[JES4845]

Also mystro, would be helpful to learn how many SD voyages you have been on with respect to children. We just came off a voyage in the Black Sea with about ten children on such a small ship that we otherwise find a joy to be on. We have now done nine SD voyages in five years with an increasing number of kids overall during that time. From our experience and those of others on this forum it simply isn't accurate to suggest there are only a few kids from time to time and by implication thus a minor impact from them. This thread wouldn't be so long and the views expressed wouldn't be so specific and passionate if the kids were few and their impact minor.

[goRRRdon]

Also mystro, would be helpful to learn how many SD voyages you have been on with respect to children. We just came off a voyage in the Black Sea with about ten children on such a small ship that we otherwise find a joy to be on. We have now done nine SD voyages in five years with an increasing number of kids overall during that time. From our experience and those of others on this forum it simply isn't accurate to suggest there are only a few kids from time to time and by implication thus a minor impact from them. This thread wouldn't be so long and the views expressed wouldn't be so specific and passionate if the kids were few and their impact minor.

 

Well said JES and accurately noted zimmy

 

Lets get back on track: the problem (being addressed on this forum) is:

- apparent growing number of kids on SD (even allowing children younger than SD own guide)

- apparent lack of informing passengers bringing children (indeed there appears to be a drive to simply fill cabins irrespective of suitability)

- too many children (though preferably none whatsoever or at least clear advertising of voyages as family friendly, some children and adult only)

- requesting SD to attend to this issue as a matter of greatest importance so we know where we stand for future bookings (otherwise we will reduce risks by fewer bookings, select our bookings more carefully or simply not be prepared to risk it ever again: no more booking SD)

[frequent traveler]

A Sea Dream guide exists:

 

What is SeaDream Yacht Club’s policy regarding children?

 

SeaDream is excellent for couples and friends as well as families with mature, well traveled children aged 13 and older. Adults with children younger than 13 years of age should perhaps consider SeaDream Yacht Club carefully as an option. Children aged 1 or younger are not allowed. We do not have formal children’s programs or baby sitting services available on the yacht. In some cases the children’s nanny or au pair traveling with the family is ideal. When families are on board parents are expected to manage the behavior of their children to ensure that the enjoyment of other guests is in no manner compromised. Guest satisfaction is highly important to SeaDream. The crew has been instructed to immediately inform parents about unacceptable behavior of our younger guests! SeaDream follows local laws as it relates to drinking age and this varies from 18 to 21 years of age.

Families who elect to charter the vessel may set up children’s programs and other children’s services not normally available on regular voyages. Please consult our charter department for further information.

 

So JES you see it is unlikely this will ever be abandoned to above 18 years old only.

 

My question is: is this guide actually enforced by management ?

This issue appears to be worsening.

 

Another consideration. Would you not allow crew to allow their own families onboard even though they are well behaved and the parents act very responsibly ?

 

The fact that there is a guide about children and even expressly permitting children over the age of 1 just sealed the deal.

 

FT

[Jim Avery]

The fact that there is a guide about children and even expressly permitting children over the age of 1 just sealed the deal.

 

FT

 

Even that is ignored. As we stated, we sailed with a 6mos old with its Nanny.:eek:

[Jim Avery]

If I was so inclined...I'd worry more about wealthy geriatrics having accidents in the pool then the few kids which travel SDYC cruises.

 

Rather a hostile toned first post Mystro. You will find people on here willing and able to help as well as being personable shipmates. Relax a bit and enjoy meeting new friends.

[frequent traveler]

Even that is ignored. As we stated, we sailed with a 6mos old with its Nanny.:eek:

 

And remember the Nanny who left the children unattended? one almost wandered off the pool deck into the ocean? another time the two children were dancing and speaking while the CAD was trying to discuss the next port? same thing happened last summer on our last SD voyage. Guess because the CAD was speaking one language and the small children were speaking another, the parents thought it was OK!

 

FT

[wripro]

Any parents selfish enough to put their own need ahead of their childrens' by bringing them on board SD or any other luxury line will always think anything their kids do is okay.

[JES4845]

Amen to the last several posts. On our recent Black Sea misadventure the privileged kids were actually being encouraged or at least not stopped by their "parents/friends" in the large group mini-charter they were part of from DIVING from the wood deck around the pool into the pool. As we all know, there are is the tiled shelf around the pool in the water plus metal railings just below the tiled shelf, not to mention the pool overall is quite narrow. Luckily no one was hurt but the risk of injury with kids in that environment should be something that parents, friends and ultimately management takes into account in how to fashion and follow a better child policy. I am hopeful we are being heard but time will tell!

[CDreamer]

Amen to the last several posts. On our recent Black Sea misadventure the privileged kids were actually being encouraged or at least not stopped by their "parents/friends" in the large group mini-charter they were part of from DIVING from the wood deck around the pool into the pool.

 

Great. No liability there. :rolleyes:

 

Of course I've heard Jim Avery plans to execute several cannonballs in a row after jumping off Deck 4 into the jacuzzi tub, so maybe that isn't quite as dangerous as it sounds. :p

[Jim Avery]

Great. No liability there. :rolleyes:

 

Of course I've heard Jim Avery plans to execute several cannonballs in a row after jumping off Deck 4 into the jacuzzi tub, so maybe that isn't quite as dangerous as it sounds. :p

 

CDreamer, that was supposed to be a SURPRISE!:eek: I have been working on technique for months.:D Come along on this one and I will teach you. I will warm up by using my Princess time (don't ask) to practice jumping from the top of the big screen outdoor movies into the Kiddy Pool.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Jim Avery

[frequent traveler]

Amen to the last several posts. On our recent Black Sea misadventure the privileged kids were actually being encouraged or at least not stopped by their "parents/friends" in the large group mini-charter they were part of from DIVING from the wood deck around the pool into the pool. As we all know, there are is the tiled shelf around the pool in the water plus metal railings just below the tiled shelf, not to mention the pool overall is quite narrow. Luckily no one was hurt but the risk of injury with kids in that environment should be something that parents, friends and ultimately management takes into account in how to fashion and follow a better child policy. I am hopeful we are being heard but time will tell!

 

I don't know - last year, one jumped into the pool and landed on ZQ Vol. While not a dive, ZQ Vol didn't feel so great for a couple of days, but the same pack of four boys didn't slow down a bit. It was rare to see an adult in the hot tub or pool that 2nd week until the last 2 days when management finally decided to act. Since maritime law and that contract we all sign (read the fine print) limits SD's liability, I don't think the complaints make a difference. Until people stop booking AND that makes a difference in the bottom line (which to date, hasn't happened), nothing will change.

 

FT

[Jim Avery]

I don't know - last year, one jumped into the pool and landed on ZQ Vol. While not a dive, ZQ Vol didn't feel so great for a couple of days, but the same pack of four boys didn't slow down a bit. It was rare to see an adult in the hot tub or pool that 2nd week until the last 2 days when management finally decided to act. Since maritime law and that contract we all sign (read the fine print) limits SD's liability, I don't think the complaints make a difference. Until people stop booking AND that makes a difference in the bottom line (which to date, hasn't happened), nothing will change.

 

FT

 

Right again, FT. Why do they need to worry about 25 well traveled couples when, with a single swipe of the Black Card, they can book a family group of 50!:eek: The other passengers on board? Good luck. I find it a shame they are moving away from the policies that made them famous. For certain, nothing ever stays the same.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Jim Avery