How can people afford expensive cruises?

[ducklite]

This is one of my concerns as I look at the sig lines with a dozen or two cruises. In general, how people get the money to take so many cruises is none of my business. I wonder, though, how many have good plans for long-term care other than "I won't have anything but SS at some point so I can get in a Medicaid nursing home". Then it IS my business because I'm a taxpayer (and so is my son, who's more likely to be picking up the tab).

 

While I don't have long-term care insurance, my projected income in retirement (and I'm 5 years away) will be more than enough to fund nursing home care if and when I need it. DH has a chronic condition (polycythemia) that means he's unlikely to live in a nursing home for decades (and he's 75 already), but I might. I'm not planning on sending the bills to the taxpayers. I hope no one else here is, either.

 

Well stated. Far too many people are planning on SS or maybe SS and a pension that may or may not be around for them. SS was never meant to be the sole support of a senior, simply a supplement to savings. We're going to have a crisis in about 30 years as the last of the Baby Boomers who haven't saved much for retirement run out of money. SS can not keep up with itself without either raising taxes or cutting benefits.

 

Ten years ago we figured we needed $1.5M to retire. Five years ago we decided it needed to be $2M. Lately we're looking at the economics of retirement and the lifestyle we want to maintain, and are thinking we will need closer to $3M in PNW with at least $2M liquid.

 

I hope those who don't have a solid plan in place become more realistic about their future, or they will end up homeless or institutionalized in some crap-hole nursing home.

 

 

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[pcur]

This is one of my concerns as I look at the sig lines with a dozen or two cruises. In general, how people get the money to take so many cruises is none of my business. I wonder, though, how many have good plans for long-term care other than "I won't have anything but SS at some point so I can get in a Medicaid nursing home". Then it IS my business because I'm a taxpayer (and so is my son, who's more likely to be picking up the tab).

 

While I don't have long-term care insurance, my projected income in retirement (and I'm 5 years away) will be more than enough to fund nursing home care if and when I need it. DH has a chronic condition (polycythemia) that means he's unlikely to live in a nursing home for decades (and he's 75 already), but I might. I'm not planning on sending the bills to the taxpayers. I hope no one else here is, either.

 

 

I am currently witnessing the last years of two elderly family members, my Dad and my husband's Mom. Unlike the Boomers today, my 90 and 94 year old family members didn't benefit from good health care their whole lives, but neither are in skilled nursing. That's because when they were in their 40's they DID start getting the benefit of good medical care.

 

It is far more likely that a majority of Boomers will be like my family members: in assisted living, not skilled nursing. Unless a person has a slow moving chronic disease, they are more likely to be spending more money on everyday expenses, not need skilled nursing until the very end. My Dad has late stage Parkinson's, was just put on hospice care a week ago, and is still in assisted living at age 94.

 

This is what I plan for instead. I also know that it is unlikely that both my husband and I will live to the same age: it is more likely only one of us will be paying out for higher living expenses. With medical science the way it is, and getting better, it's more likely we will be diminishing slowly rather than get really bad off fast and need skilled nursing.

[momofmeg]

Most of us save and plan ahead for our cruises. We may or may not take land vacations. With careful planning and looking for good cruise prices, we enjoy cruising and find it to be a good vacation bargain.

 

Some of us cannot afford to cruise on the upscale lines and do not pay the amounts you mentioned. Instead you'll find many sailing with NCL, Carnival, RCI, etc. and having a great time. We might be in an inside room, but we are still sailing. Also, being thrifty onboard is important. You will not find me at the spa. I cruise from a port that is close enough to drive to in about 5 hours. This saves $$$ on airfare and if we leave early in the am there will no hotel costs.

 

For next year DD and I have decided to kick it up a notch (special occasion) and we have a suite. This is new for us and we have the least expensive suite, but we will still have all the perks. We booked early and are watching the prices rise steadily for this category. Our cost per person will be less than $300.00 per day and includes gratuity, cabin, food, etc. and our butler and concierge. That's cheaper than most land vacations.

 

You too can cruise, but perhaps not on a "Grand" voyage.

 

Don't forget Celebrity is a really good value. As far as grand voyages, I do not think I would want to be on ship that long and hubby could only be away if he was retired so I doubt we will ever doing anything like that. I would like to try Amazara, Oceania or go on the smaller Princess ships like Pacific Princess which costs about like those two lines. I doubt I will ever do anything better than that as not only is it not in our income bracket to spend that much but also I really like some of the mainstream lines such as Celebrity very well and am satisfied with the product they offer.

 

We did get a skysuite on Celebrity once, and although we loved having a real bathtub and a balcony where we could see the ship's wake; as far as the butler, I could not see he was that big a deal, he did press some of hubby's shirts which was still an extra cost since we were not "select" yet, instead of sending then to the laundry. He brought afternoon tea to our suite every afternoon and cappuccinos every morning. We did have him bring us dinner one night which was nice. He was also super busy because he was not just "our" butler as many think, but took care of several suites. But all the things he did out side of afternoon tea you can have done by room service or your steward.

[momofmeg]

I am currently witnessing the last years of two elderly family members, my Dad and my husband's Mom. Unlike the Boomers today, my 90 and 94 year old family members didn't benefit from good health care their whole lives, but neither are in skilled nursing. That's because when they were in their 40's they DID start getting the benefit of good medical care.

 

It is far more likely that a majority of Boomers will be like my family members: in assisted living, not skilled nursing. Unless a person has a slow moving chronic disease, they are more likely to be spending more money on everyday expenses, not need skilled nursing until the very end. My Dad has late stage Parkinson's, was just put on hospice care a week ago, and is still in assisted living at age 94.

 

This is what I plan for instead. I also know that it is unlikely that both my husband and I will live to the same age: it is more likely only one of us will be paying out for higher living expenses. With medical science the way it is, and getting better, it's more likely we will be diminishing slowly rather than get really bad off fast and need skilled nursing.

 

You know my friend's motherinlaw had Alzheimers and was in a home for the last 7 or 8 years. About 4 years ago they put in a feeding tube for her, at that time she had no idea of whom even her children were. Her son died of heart failure (my friend's husband) and she was not even aware. She finally died 2 months ago. Now my dad developed dementia in his late 50's, so very young, he was also in a home for the last 18 months of his life.

 

He choked to death on sweet potato souffle because he forgot how to swallow at age 63. He also had no idea whom we were from before the time he was put in a home. I do think him dying sooner, and not being kept alive by a feeding tube was merciful for him. Medical Science did not give us that option back then (31 years ago) -now they do to families of dementia patients.

 

I have made a medical document stating I do not want to be kept alive with feeding tubes if I was to develop dementia just because of knowing about my friend's motherinlaw. I decided to do that because now I AM in my sound mind and it could not be refuted by my family as possibly if I waited until getting that possible diagnosis Not everything medical science has developed to keep us living is for our good, I feel. I just do not want my "shell" kept alive, if I am read already dead.

 

Now, we do put away for our retirement and we are also paying extra on our house now so we will not have house payments after retirement. I am sure once we retire, our vacations will be even less, as that comes from disposable income; I know for sure we will never do any world voyages. I am okay with that, as I realize the more our health fails, the less we will want to be away from home anyway, especially trips out of the country. I am glad we can do some while we are still young enough to enjoy our trips. At least me, I am finding I am enjoying trips less and less, as my energy is not good anymore. I really have to pace myself even now.

[navybankerteacher]

Whether it those are not be a 12-night Crystal Cruise, or a Holland America Grand Voyage, the fact remains, these cruises are expensive. Twelve, fifteen, twenty-five thousand dollars per person....these are not your $599 7 night Caribbean sailings.

 

My sister and I are both in our 50s, married to professionals, have incomes of about $125K per year and own 4BR/2BA suburban homes in affordable areas, drive "average" cars like a 2010 Toyota Camry, and don't have small children in our households. We put moderate amounts--between $2000 to $4000 a month--away towards retirement. We consider ourselves middle-class.

 

So in reading these cruise boards we notice many, many cruisers who are in income brackets similar to or lower than ours, yet they seem able to take expensive cruises my sister and I can only drool over. Retired teachers and policemen, former university professors, electricians, retired Teamster employees, Vice-President of a local bank, etc. etc. Some are living in condos, others in single-family homes...the point being, we don't know how they can do it.

 

NOT being nosey; rather, looking for insight into how we, too, can enjoy those perks!

 

Thanks a bunch.

 

Very few people are saving for retirement at the rate you mention; that $24,000 to $48,000 per year you are putting away shows that you have the ability to choose how to use your income. If you combine a fair portion of that amount with what you ordinarily spend on annual vacations, you could swing a big cruise. Of course, you could not do it every year - but then, very few do: far fewer than the 1% an earlier posted mentioned.

 

Like everything else, it is a matter of setting priorities. Many people I know question our ability to cruise - without recognizing that their choice in cars, daily triple latte frappucinos ( or whatever), frequent dining out, even smoking, all represent repeated small choices which cumulatively impact their ability to make a big choice.

[navybankerteacher]

Have you looked into Long Term Care Insurance? We will soon.

 

When is "soon"? The cost goes up the later "soon" comes. LTCI is only part of the picture - along with serious saving (requiring some self-discipline and denial) and, hopefully, a good income during your working years. Fortunately our working years are past, and we said "no" to ourselves sufficiently in those days to be able to say "yes" occasionally now. We hope to leave something (but not too much) to our children - who are fortunately now acting like grown-ups, and are happy to see us enjoy these years.

[pcur]

You know my friend's motherinlaw had Alzheimers and was in a home for the last 7 or 8 years. About 4 years ago they put in a feeding tube for her, at that time she had no idea of whom even her children were. Her son died of heart failure (my friend's husband) and she was not even aware. She finally died 2 months ago. Now my dad developed dementia in his late 50's, so very young, he was also in a home for the last 18 months of his life.

 

He choked to death on sweet potato souffle because he forgot how to swallow at age 63. He also had no idea whom we were from before the time he was put in a home. I do think him dying sooner, and not being kept alive by a feeding tube was merciful for him. Medical Science did not give us that option back then (31 years ago) -now they do to families of dementia patients.

 

I have made a medical document stating I do not want to be kept alive with feeding tubes if I was to develop dementia just because of knowing about my friend's motherinlaw. I decided to do that because now I AM in my sound mind and it could not be refuted by my family as possibly if I waited until getting that possible diagnosis Not everything medical science has developed to keep us living is for our good, I feel. I just do not want my "shell" kept alive, if I am read already dead.

 

Now, we do put away for our retirement and we are also paying extra on our house now so we will not have house payments after retirement. I am sure once we retire, our vacations will be even less, as that comes from disposable income; I know for sure we will never do any world voyages. I am okay with that, as I realize the more our health fails, the less we will want to be away from home anyway, especially trips out of the country. I am glad we can do some while we are still young enough to enjoy our trips. At least me, I am finding I am enjoying trips less and less, as my energy is not good anymore. I really have to pace myself even now.

 

You are correct that having a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) and a POLST (Physician's Order for Life Sustaining Treatment) are absolutely necessary to avoid 4 years of feeding tubes. My husband and I are of one mind, as are my Dad and MIL: no tubes for any of us, no CPR for them.

 

CPR is NOT good for the elderly. Most get broken ribs, pneumonia, and die within 3 weeks in terrible pain. I talked to the director of the assisted living center where they live, and he gave me that sad statistic. It would probably break my MIL's porous boned spine!

 

 

We live on our retirement income. The withdrawals from our IRA's is what funds our cruising. Everything else stays for our late life living arrangements.

 

We now cruise 1 - 4 times a year, and are in the "spend less in living expenses; spend the rest on cruising" category, and I bargain shop for every single thing we spend on travel.

 

It's all in planning and priorities.

Edited November 11, 2013 by pcur

[momofmeg]

You are correct that having a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) and a POLST (Physician's Order for Life Sustaining Treatment) are absolutely necessary to avoid 4 years of feeding tubes. My husband and I are of one mind, as are my Dad and MIL: no tubes for any of us, no CPR for them.

 

CPR is NOT good for the elderly. Most get broken ribs, pneumonia, and die within 3 weeks in terrible pain. I talked to the director of the assisted living center where they live, and he gave me that sad statistic. It would probably break my MIL's porous boned spine!

 

 

We live on our retirement income. The withdrawals from our IRA's is what funds our cruising. Everything else stays for our late life living arrangements.

 

We now cruise 1 - 4 times a year, and are in the "spend less in living expenses; spend the rest on cruising" category, and I bargain shop for every single thing we spend on travel.

 

It's all in planning and priorities.

 

Sounds like we think alike. That is our plan. That money socked away can pay for vacations, when we have extra medical expenses, house repairs,etc. so yep, we may take a yearly cruise, but I seriously doubt a world voyage. Lol!

 

As to whether we take any more trips to Europe post retirement though will depend on how well our heath is still doing. I can see us picking cruises roundtrip USA as it would be simpler to getting to nearby medical care in an emergency. Both of us have health issues already and we are still 9 years from retirement.

 

Our last cruise there was a medical emergency from someone on our roll call, but they did okay as an ambulance took them from our Ensenada port to San Diego. In their case it was her gall bladder and they are even younger than hubby and I, but I know it was a comfort still for them that San Diego was not that far away.

Edited November 12, 2013 by momofmeg

[pcur]

I can see us picking cruises roundtrip USA as it would be simpler to getting to nearby medical care in an emergency. Both of us have health issues already and we are still 9 years from retirement.

 

I suggest you keep an eye on Princess. I received a brochure from them last week that had really interesting and long cruises. An example: leave from Ft. Lauderdale, go through the Caribbean, through the Panama Canal, some Mexico, debark in San Diego.

 

They also had one that went out to Hawaii and the South Pacific.

 

Princess is great for putting together different itineraries to make up a longer one.

 

These were also on sale, and I think the most expensive was $3,500 per person, plus tax. But, they were 40 days long!!

[Tiggertastic]

We save up and never book unless we already have the money put away to cover it

 

We would rather take 3 cruises at $1500 each than take 1 at $4000

 

My aunt does the world cruises, she won over $1.5m (£900k) on the lottery otherwise she would not be doing it

[momofmeg]

We save up and never book unless we already have the money put away to cover it

 

We would rather take 3 cruises at $1500 each than take 1 at $4000

 

My aunt does the world cruises, she won over $1.5m (£900k) on the lottery otherwise she would not be doing it

 

You know, if we came into that kind of money, we would retire now, and hubby and I would go and stay at different places for months at a time. I could see us coming and staying in England say for the summer for example, and making shorter trips to the Baltic, Scotland and Ireland from there. Dream on-huh?

 

I like cruise, but I get tired of them. Our last 12 day was a Med cruise, I got tired of the ship, now I did not get tired of the ports, but I was ready to get off the ship. I do not feel that way on 7 day cruises, (unless I really disliked the ship as I did NCL Sun) but anything longer I am ready to leave ship after day 8.

[ducklite]

You know, if we came into that kind of money, we would retire now, and hubby and I would go and stay at different places for months at a time. I could see us coming and staying in England say for the summer for example, and making shorter trips to the Baltic, Scotland and Ireland from there. Dream on-huh?

 

I like cruise, but I get tired of them. Our last 12 day was a Med cruise, I got tired of the ship, now I did not get tired of the ports, but I was ready to get off the ship. I do not feel that way on 7 day cruises, (unless I really disliked the ship as I did NCL Sun) but anything longer I am ready to leave ship after day 8.

 

We did the math once just for giggles and we'd need at least $4M to retire at this point. That number comes down slightly every year as we get older and have more in retirement savings outside of the winnings.

 

 

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[pcur]

You know, if we came into that kind of money, we would retire now, and hubby and I would go and stay at different places for months at a time. I could see us coming and staying in England say for the summer for example, and making shorter trips to the Baltic, Scotland and Ireland from there. Dream on-huh?

 

I like cruise, but I get tired of them. Our last 12 day was a Med cruise, I got tired of the ship, now I did not get tired of the ports, but I was ready to get off the ship. I do not feel that way on 7 day cruises, (unless I really disliked the ship as I did NCL Sun) but anything longer I am ready to leave ship after day 8.

 

We have done two very long cruises. One was a b2b2b on the Rhapsody for 33 nights, and the other was on the Star Princess for 28 days.

 

I was ready to get off the Star, but could have stayed much longer on the Rhapsody. It was just a difference in crew and the feel of the ship. We sail on Princess for the itinerary, but RCCL has our heart (and money!) because we truly love the ships, their crews, and the perks we get.

[momofmeg]

We did the math once just for giggles and we'd need at least $4M to retire at this point. That number comes down slightly every year as we get older and have more in retirement savings outside of the winnings.

 

 

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No worries, I do not play the lottery-I did say "dream on" lol!

[ducklite]

No worries, I do not play the lottery-I did say "dream on" lol!

 

It is nice to dream though, isn't it? :)

 

 

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[momofmeg]

It is nice to dream though, isn't it? :)

 

 

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Yes, and that is my dream- to spend an extended visit in Europe-I would prefer that too a world cruise. I doubt I will ever get to do that but hopefully I will go back to England. France and Italy. Med. But I also would love to see Scotland and more Of Ireland.

[LindaM]

Well stated. Far too many people are planning on SS or maybe SS and a pension that may or may not be around for them. SS was never meant to be the sole support of a senior, simply a supplement to savings. We're going to have a crisis in about 30 years as the last of the Baby Boomers who haven't saved much for retirement run out of money. SS can not keep up with itself without either raising taxes or cutting benefits.

 

Ten years ago we figured we needed $1.5M to retire. Five years ago we decided it needed to be $2M. Lately we're looking at the economics of retirement and the lifestyle we want to maintain, and are thinking we will need closer to $3M in PNW with at least $2M liquid.

 

I hope those who don't have a solid plan in place become more realistic about their future, or they will end up homeless or institutionalized in some crap-hole nursing home.

 

 

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I am not an accountant, but once you get close to $1M in a good mix of stock/bond funds, that money will be making you money, to get to your goal. Not so much the bonds.... One of mom's funds that has only $320,000 in it makes around $60,000/year. That more than pays for her assisted living at $3000/month. She is 90 and could end up in a skilled care facility. We don't have nursing home insurance, but have enough to pay for care when we need it someday. Looking at mom's friends.....I think most of us will end up in some type of assisted living in time. People do need to make sure they have money for that, as unpleasant as that thought is!

[momofmeg]

I am not an accountant, but once you get close to $1M in a good mix of stock/bond funds, that money will be making you money, to get to your goal. Not so much the bonds.... One of mom's funds that has only $320,000 in it makes around $60,000/year. That more than pays for her assisted living at $3000/month. She is 90 and could end up in a skilled care facility. We don't have nursing home insurance, but have enough to pay for care when we need it someday. Looking at mom's friends.....I think most of us will end up in some type of assisted living in time. People do need to make sure they have money for that, as unpleasant as that thought is!

 

That is what I was thinking Linda. I know several of my retired friends just spend the interest on their retirement and leave the principal alone. They live comfortably.

[ducklite]

That is what I was thinking Linda. I know several of my retired friends just spend the interest on their retirement and leave the principal alone. They live comfortably.

 

You have to work with a worst case scenario, which would be about a 5% annual return--or potentially less requiring you to draw from principal. On a million, that's only $50K a year, with taxes to be paid on some of that. The nut just to pay the utilities, insurance, HOA, property taxes, lawn care, pest control, and basic maintenance (not including the biggies like repainting the house every 8-10 years) runs us about $1500 a month. Add in all the long term maintenance and major repairs and it's closer to $2000 per month. That doesn't include the mortgage, which will be paid off before we retire.

 

Add in the cost of insurance and maintenance on the cars (assuming no new car purchase or major repair is required), medical care and supplemental policies (assuming we remain healthy), food and sundries, the occasional clothing purchase, and a bit for entertainment, and there is not much left for travel or charitable donations. This is in today's dollars, and we anticipate that in our lifetime we'll see those expense multiply by four, if not more. This is why many who think they will be fine in retirement are in for a rude awakening. They are not planning for inflation or market crashes.

 

 

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[momofmeg]

You have to work with a worst case scenario, which would be about a 5% annual return--or potentially less requiring you to draw from principal. On a million, that's only $50K a year, with taxes to be paid on some of that. The nut just to pay the utilities, insurance, HOA, property taxes, lawn care, pest control, and basic maintenance (not including the biggies like repainting the house every 8-10 years) runs us about $1500 a month. Add in all the long term maintenance and major repairs and it's closer to $2000 per month. That doesn't include the mortgage, which will be paid off before we retire.

 

Add in the cost of insurance and maintenance on the cars (assuming no new car purchase or major repair is required), medical care and supplemental policies (assuming we remain healthy), food and sundries, the occasional clothing purchase, and a bit for entertainment, and there is not much left for travel or charitable donations. This is in today's dollars, and we anticipate that in our lifetime we'll see those expense multiply by four, if not more. This is why many who think they will be fine in retirement are in for a rude awakening. They are not planning for inflation or market crashes.

 

 

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Which is why no one using good sense would spend every penny of that interest. Thank goodness I do not gamble-lol! I think a good thing would be to spend no more than half and reinvest the other half or at least keep it in savings. There are always house repairs and medical bills. Only a fool would spend all that on vacation or expensive toys.

[ducklite]

Which is why no one using good sense would spend every penny of that interest. Thank goodness I do not gamble-lol! I think a good thing would be to spend no more than half and reinvest the other half or at least keep it in savings. There are always house repairs and medical bills. Only a fool would spend all that on vacation or expensive toys.

 

I'm not disagreeing, just saying that in your scenario of spending 50% of interest earnings, that might well be only an average of $25K annually, not enough to have any sort of life and still be able to travel, which is why I don't believe those with only a million in the bank will have a long term comfortable retirement.

 

 

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[momofmeg]

Ducktite, I do agree with you up to a point. As I said, I was simply saying I am not interested in taking a 6 months world cruise. I doubt I would even spend 3 months in Europe all at once.

 

Realistically, hubby and I would love to buy a condo in Myrtle beach to spend a lot of time there and when not there rent it out. We would probably, if we ever do do that, is rent it out the whole summer which is high season (to offset the cost) and then go and stay after labor Day and winter there.

[momofmeg]

I'm not disagreeing, just saying that in your scenario of spending 50% of interest earnings, that might well be only an average of $25K annually, not enough to have any sort of life and still be able to travel, which is why I don't believe those with only a million in the bank will have a long term comfortable retirement.

 

 

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Lol! I already have serious health problems at age 59. I seriously doubt I will do any more traveling than I do now, if I had zillions. I am not counting on that. To be honest, I doubt we will go to Europe 3 times in under 10 years as we have done in the last few years. We usually budget about $10,000 a year for vacations, but we don't spend that every year, which is why every 2 or 3 years , we can take a better vacation.

 

The rate my health is going down, we will not need to budget even that. I am just hoping I will make 70 and glad that hubby and I have taken a few nice trips already.

[Donray]

We retired at age 62 with the intension of spending 25K a year on travel. So far we have done that. We normally take one river cruise a year and an ocean cruise of at least 14 days on smaller ships. Or we go to Moorea every other year and that is $1000 a day with airfare.

[momofmeg]

We retired at age 62 with the intension of spending 25K a year on travel. So far we have done that. We normally take one river cruise a year and an ocean cruise of at least 14 days on smaller ships. Or we go to Moorea every other year and that is $1000 a day with airfare.

 

So it is possible within reason. Some may want to spend their whole retirement traveling. I wonder if anyone retired actually does that, even movie stars? Many may own homes in more than one place around the world, but they do not travel the world all the time.

 

I do not think anyone should count on doing that even if they have a very good retirement as the problem with age is health issues comes. Just because you can afford to do so does not mean you will be capable.

 

As the one person said, we need to plan for assisted care which will be needed if we are fortunate enough to live into our late 80's.