Venice Update

[brian_uk]

This just announced in UK

 

 

Cruise ships are to be diverted away from Venice's historic centre from 2016 - although concerns have been raised about the proposed new route for the vessels.

 

The Costa Concordia disaster in January 2012 has increased pressure on the authorities to keep liners away from the central Giudecca canal and St Mark's Basin.

 

At present they pass within 300m (330 yards) of St Mark's Square, providing a stunning view from aboard the vessel but a jarring sight from the shore.

 

 

Brian

[Paulchili]

At present they pass within 300m (330 yards) of St Mark's Square, providing a stunning view from aboard the vessel but a jarring sight from the shore.

 

 

Brian

 

Easy solution - make sure you are onboard the vessel and not on the shore :D

[PS Caledonia]

It will reduce calls through Venice by 20% from the start of 2014.

 

As from November 2014, vessels larger than 96,000m/t will be banned from the centre of Venice.

 

Link to yesterday's BBC News:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24827324

 

Oceania's vessel's are small enough to still visit...

Edited November 6, 2013 by PS Caledonia
Incorrect dates..!

[caviargal]

Personally I think it is too little, too late.

 

I was first in Venice in the 70s and have been there a half dozen times since. Most recently was two weeks ago when we disembarked Riviera in Venice.

 

It is very sad to see what Venice has become. The sight of 4 large ships docked in port, the people mover, the masses of tourists and tour groups, the new modern bridge and more stores and kiosks selling crummy made in China products then ever.

 

Personally, I thought it was awful and would never go back.

[suec12]

We recently sailed out of Venice on a Celebrity ship - large but not the biggest ship in the canal! We have been to Venice several times before so we planned to visit a church we had read about in the WSJ and stay away from tourist ground zero sights. We had a lovely day! wandering in a part of the city near the university where there were few tourists so for those of you that don't like crowds, you can still enjoy the city. We even saw some of the graffiti about keeping the (big?) ships out of the city.

 

However, Venice must have spent quite a few E's lately on the people mover and our cab driver on the way to the port said many locals wanted the business from the ships. He said alot of the protesters were university students, not residents or those working in the city. But it does seem that they could have the super big girls dock a bit away from the city and shuttle in the hoardes. But what else does Venice have besides tourism? and I still think it is a wonddrful place to visit whenever I am fortunate enough to be in that part of the world.

[Paulchili]

Personally I think it is too little, too late.

 

I was first in Venice in the 70s and have been there a half dozen times since. Most recently was two weeks ago when we disembarked Riviera in Venice.

 

It is very sad to see what Venice has become. The sight of 4 large ships docked in port, the people mover, the masses of tourists and tour groups, the new modern bridge and more stores and kiosks selling crummy made in China products then ever.

 

Personally, I thought it was awful and would never go back.

 

This is a universal phenomenon - by no means unique to Venice. The world has changed forever.

The Great Wall of China, Machu Picchu, Angkor Wat, among many destinations, are not the places they were 15 or 20 years ago. They all look like ant hills crawling with millions of ants (aka tourists). There are very few places they are not affected by this - even Papua New Guinea is not remote any more. It's just a fact of life and travel in the 21st century.

You have to go to the moon to find a destination that is undiscovered/not overrun with visitors

:D

[caviargal]

T

You have to go to the moon to find a destination that is undiscovered/not overrun with visitors

:D

 

That has not been my experience overall but definitely is the case in many of the popular cruise ship ports. This is one of the reasons that ocean cruising is not our preferred type of travel.

 

We generally travel independently by land when visiting Europe, using the excellent train system, and that is our preference.

 

This trip we spent several days pre cruise in Liguria, one of my favorite regions in Italy. Camogli, Rapallo and Sestri Levante were all lovely and not at all overrun with tourists. They have not changed much since my last visit 8 or so years ago.

 

The ports we visited on our cruise were the opposite and we were happy that we had arranged private drivers to get us out of the swarms of shoppers and tour groups. Amalfi, Positano and Sorrento were all much nicer from the water than up close and have changed a lot since my last visits there, and not for the better.

 

Next trip to Italy we will likely visit Piemonte, and possibly Le March or Puglia. It takes more effort to avoid the masses but for our personal travel tastes and priorities, it is well worth it.

Edited November 6, 2013 by caviargal

[Noxequifans]

20% reduction starting Jan 2014. Given that most cruise lines now have set their routes for 2014, wondering how that will be accomplished.

[Paulchili]

I am glad that this is your experience. Although not seeing changes in the last 8 years does not mean very much.

The destinations I listed, although can be visited from a cruise ship, are not exactly cruise port destinations. Just think of all the changes in places like Taj Mahal, Nepal, Tibet, etc. These are places that people wish to visit if they had not seen them before, but they are not the same.

Glad you can find places that you find not too crowded and can enjoy. :)

Edited November 6, 2013 by Paulchili

[azevedan]

This may be helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cruise_ships

 

O's "O" ships will potentially be affected by the "reduce to 20%/over 40K tons/by Jan 2014."

"R" ships, at 30,277 tons, should not be.

 

None of the O ships will be affected by the "ban/over 96K tons/by Nov 2014."

Edited November 6, 2013 by azevedan

[wp bob]

The news summary I read said reduce TO 20% of total not BY 20%. That's a huge difference.

[azevedan]

The news summary I read said reduce TO 20% of total not BY 20%. That's a huge difference.

 

yep. that's why I said "reduce TO 20%".

[wp bob]

I was referring to post 3 by ps caledonia for a 20% reduction.

[PS Caledonia]

I was referring to post 3 by ps caledonia for a 20% reduction.

 

That's what was reported by BBCNews. Not sure if the news clip that goes with it will play outside the UK.

[Noxequifans]

SeatradeInsider reports a reduction of 20% from this years level.

[Caroldoll]

You said potentially the O ships would be affected, then you said they will not be?

 

We are booked on the Riviera for June 2014.

 

In reading the article, it appears that the ships can still dock but probably at the other terminal and a diversion that brings them there without going into the center of town?

 

I for one would miss this cruise, although I agree that St. Mark's square is crazy now. When we were younger we would stay at a hotel and get up at midnight and go have a drink and dance in the square. I was hoping for one more time in my life!

[azevedan]

You said potentially the O ships would be affected, then you said they will not be?

We are booked on the Riviera for June 2014.

In reading the article, it appears that the ships can still dock but probably at the other terminal and a diversion that brings them there without going into the center of town?

I for one would miss this cruise, although I agree that St. Mark's square is crazy now. When we were younger we would stay at a hotel and get up at midnight and go have a drink and dance in the square. I was hoping for one more time in my life!

 

According to the article (my only source, except for the ship sizes, which I got from wikipedia (and Azamara's website to verify the R size)), there are TWO changes coming. The one that affects ships the size of O's "O" class is in January, 2014, when the traffic of ships over 40K tons must be reduced in the lagoon where they dock now to 20% of the prior allowance (whatever that was). That is the one that would potentially mean you would dock or tender a little farther out. I would strongly suspect you would still be in Venice on the same dates, just docked/tendered in a different location IF Riviera is even told to dock/tender further out. Some 40K+ ships WILL (according to the article) be allowed to dock in the lagoon, just far fewer.

 

THEN, in November, 2014, ships over 96K tons will be prohibited from docking in the lagoon. Since all of O's ships are smaller than this, it will not apply to any of them, O or R class. But the lower number allowed for ships between 40K and 96K tons will still be in place.

 

To summarize:

 

Now

- Status quo

Jan 2014:

- Ships under 40K tons (R class) - no change

- Ships 40K tons or more (O class) - only 1/5 the number will be allowed in lagoon where they are now

Nov 2014:

- Ships under 40K tons (R class) - no change

- Ships 40K tons to 96K tons (O class) - only 1/5 the number will be allowed in lagoon where they are now

- Ships 96K tons or more (NONE of Oceania's ships are in this category) - banned from lagoon where they are now

 

I have seen articles that do state 20% reduction, rather reduce to 20%, so there's obviously confusion out there. I also see some articles imply long tons rather than short (US) tons, but they're close enough that it doesn't change the Oceania ship classification.

 

Upshot is, IMO, the only thing to worry about is to be sure to clarify WHERE you'll be docked.

Edited November 7, 2013 by azevedan

[PS Caledonia]

Not sure if this provides any further clarification:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/05/us-venice-cruiseships-idUSBRE9A40YZ20131105

[Caroldoll]

as we all know, but as I look at the itinerary, I don't see an alternate port. They are coming from Barcelona or near there and to go to Rome would be out. We are also on the next segment, Rome to Rome. I am going to hold my breath and hope we can make it. Of course things in Italy are very political, so the 20% or so who will be allowed in will be people with pull, I am thinking. Thanks for helping with answers.