Reflection Dress Code....Just Back!!!

[Ma Bell]

Howard, it's not the norm now. It's a section of American society(see Charlies post above) that feels they have the right to do as they please. Since something is not mandatory, only suggested and they don't agree or like the policy, they do what makes them happy. If you take note, it's usually only American men that don't follow the formal dress suggestions. There are cruise lines that don't have formal dress codes and for the life of me I cannot understand why folks like Charlie will not just take their cruise vacations on them. Celebrity is the host and passengers should do as they ask or go elsewhere.

 

 

By the way, this doesn't seem to say the dress codes are "suggested". December 7th, this year on Reflection from the daily.

http://www.thepreismans.com/ecarib_reflection_dailies.htm#day_1

[SHill64]

My experience suggests that this is not an "American men" phenomenon as you suggest. When on our Silhouette cruise in the Med in 2012, there were many Europeans on the cruise. The dress code was enforced - at least to the extent that they were handing out jackets - and compliance was generally high. Had they not been handing out the jackets, I probably wouldn't have noticed anything because I generally don't care what others are doing. That said, my observation was that the European men were the ones more likely to not be in compliance with the dress code. There was an older Frenchman in a nice blazer, loud yachting pants, and a tieless French cuffed shirt rolled over his blazer without cuff links that looked like he stepped off his yacht. The German man who carried his loaner jacket to his seat on both nights and hung it on the back of his chair.

 

Also, why you picking on Charles? Didn't he say that he packs a suit? He complies. He just doesn't wear his tux anymore. Neither do I. It's been parked in the closet for 5 years. But I comply anyway - as does he - even though I think Celebrity's version of "formal" is strange, anachronistic, and destined to be abandoned soon.

 

I know that for the like-formal crowd, you are in a fight that you know that you are losing. I'm sad for you as that's something that you clearly enjoy. But why do y'all stoop to telling people who comply with the dress code to sail another line or (something another did) drop the Carnival-bomb to smear others with whom you disagree? That's not right.

 

With all due respect, your recent cruise is just one sailing of many. My wife & I have well over 400 days at sea and I would not make general comments about anything. I make my comments from things I've seen and experienced. Have I seen people from other countries dressed wrong or making a scene on cruise ships? You bet! BUT, most of these types of things are done by Americans. Next time you board a ship, pay attention to others boarding with you and listen to them. Many of those people are already unhappy! I think the time to be unhappy is during disembarkation!

 

 

And for the record, I'm NOT pro-formal wear or anti-formal wear. I'm for abiding by the rules and suggestions of my host, the cruise line. If Celebrity went 100% smart casual, would I be upset or change lines? No. I think what frustrates many on these threads is twofold. One is, some people cannot or will not abide by the dress code. The other is the cruise line will not enforce the dress code. I'm the latter.

[20pluscruises]

With all due respect, your recent cruise is just one sailing of many. My wife & I have well over 400 days at sea and I would not make general comments about anything. I make my comments from things I've seen and experienced. Have I seen people from other countries dressed wrong or making a scene on cruise ships? You bet! BUT, most of these types of things are done by Americans. Next time you board a ship, pay attention to others boarding with you and listen to them. Many of those people are already unhappy! I think the time to be unhappy is during disembarkation!

 

 

And for the record, I'm NOT pro-formal wear or anti-formal wear. I'm for abiding by the rules and suggestions of my host, the cruise line. If Celebrity went 100% smart casual, would I be upset or change lines? No. I think what frustrates many on these threads is twofold. One is, some people cannot or will not abide by the dress code. The other is the cruise line will not enforce the dress code. I'm the latter.

 

I don't care what people wear. I rather see the guests abide by keeping their babies in diapers out of the pools and hot tubs. That's the rule that should be enforced!

[20pluscruises]

The pillow chocolates are going to slowly disappear. They were taking a survey on how many guests complained.

[OuiOnboard]

On Celebrity, we always do Blu in smart casual attire.

[BKFlowerMound]

What is sad is making comments like these when there IS a dress code on Celebrity and there is no fight about that. All this justifying a position really accomplishes nothing. You may think what you like about Celebrity's dress code, but it exists and the great majority of passengers comply with it. There's nothing anachronistic about dressing up a bit for a formal evening in a lovely dining room. Celebrity also provides plenty of options for those who don't care to comply.

 

Is it possible that things may change, of course, but anyone who pays attention to trends can see that people have actually been dressing up more, recently, than just a few years ago when even celebrities thought wearing jeans everywhere was the epitome of style. Just take a look at the awards shows or fashion magazines. I think you'll find there has been a return to wearing dressier clothing.

 

Ma, we've discussed this before over the years. As I've said before, I comply and will comply until the code is changed. To me, that means, at least, a suit is required as a blazer isn't in compliance. I completely agree with you on a couple of things:

 

First, the dress code is not a suggestion, it is a requirement (see above on blazers);

 

Second, the great majority of passengers comply with, at least, jacket-required. I would go further to say that it's an overwhelming majority.

 

That said, I think you are dead wrong to think that we are in a dressier era than a few years ago. Fashions come and go, but "formal" as defined by X is going, going, and soon to be gone.

 

Let's just look at what Celebrity has done in the last few years. (And I know that you don't like any of these changes).

 

- three tier dress code - formal, semi-formal, casual reduced to two tiers called formal and smart casual.

- dark was eliminated from the suit requirement

- smart casual permits jeans in the MDR

- smart casual is the dress code every night in the specialties, including Blu

- smart casual is the dress code throughout the ship even on formal nights. Formal night is a MDR-thing only.

- informally, formal has morfed into "jacket-required" as X, to the extent it enforces formal night at all, requires only a jacket

 

Let's look at what's going on in society. Country clubs are ditching their dress code requirements in order to attract a younger demographic and stay relevant (sound familiar? Do older members say "rap" music is too loud in their bars too?). The nicest, trendiest restaurants eliminated the jacket required long ago and while many wear them, few are wearing an actual suit (OK, fine, I think the music is too loud in these places too!). In the workplace, business casual is the norm and it's getting more and more cas all the time. It used to be "casual Friday" and now it's "jeans Friday."

 

Black tie and white tie is now confined to the groom and his ushers, guests at weddings on the East Coast, high school formals, and charity events elsewhere. Suit wearing is for weddings and funerals. You don't have to like it (and parts of me don't), but that's the way it is.

Edited December 29, 2013 by BKFlowerMound

[SHill64]

By the way, this doesn't seem to say the dress codes are "suggested". December 7th, this year on Reflection from the daily.

http://www.thepreismans.com/ecarib_reflection_dailies.htm#day_1

 

Again, my bad. It was worded "suggested" for so long, I keep forgetting it's been changed. I cannot even find where it says you should remain in your formal wear throughout the ship on formal night.

 

http://www.celebritycruises.com/onboard/tabLanding.do?pagename=onboard_dining&tab=onboard_proper_dining_attire_tab%2Fonboard%2FtextPanel.do%3Fpagename%3Donboard_proper_dining_attire

 

Formal

 

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown or dressy pantsuit

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks.

[Charles4515]

By the way, this doesn't seem to say the dress codes are "suggested". December 7th, this year on Reflection from the daily.

http://www.thepreismans.com/ecarib_reflection_dailies.htm#day_1

 

I notice from that daily that formal for gentleman is defined as; Tuxedo, suit, or jacket with slacks. Thanks for posting that. Instead of wearing a suit I might decide to wear a blazer and slacks on my next Celebrity cruise. And nothing there about a tie......

[BKFlowerMound]

With all due respect, your recent cruise is just one sailing of many. My wife & I have well over 400 days at sea and I would not make general comments about anything. I make my comments from things I've seen and experienced. Have I seen people from other countries dressed wrong or making a scene on cruise ships? You bet! BUT, most of these types of things are done by Americans. Next time you board a ship, pay attention to others boarding with you and listen to them. Many of those people are already unhappy! I think the time to be unhappy is during disembarkation!

 

 

And for the record, I'm NOT pro-formal wear or anti-formal wear. I'm for abiding by the rules and suggestions of my host, the cruise line. If Celebrity went 100% smart casual, would I be upset or change lines? No. I think what frustrates many on these threads is twofold. One is, some people cannot or will not abide by the dress code. The other is the cruise line will not enforce the dress code. I'm the latter.

 

As an American, I think Americans get a bum rap. I wonder if we are just more embarrassed when another American does something gauche because it perpetuates the ugly American stereotype.

 

And for the record, what are you talking about boarding the ship? I'm not unhappy boarding, certainly, and am not unhappy disembarking as I just had a great vacation not paying attention to the whining and griping of others.

 

Also for the record, I think we are pretty close to agreement on the dress code. I follow the suggestions of my host, more or less, happily. Would I prefer to leave the suit at home and bring a blazer and ties instead, yes.

 

My frustrations are that Celebrity does not enforce the dress code strictly as written. "Sir, you will need to dine elsewhere this evening as a blazer does not satisfy the code." If they did that, the code would be changed in a heartbeat. I think I know why they don't do it, but it still bothers me because I'm still going to follow the rules.

 

It also gets under my skin if a blazer wearer gets upon his high horse and hypocritically gripes about someone not wearing a jacket. If you aren't following the rules yourself, you can't tell others to follow the rules either.

 

Finally, you'll see me post in a dress code thread if someone suggests that it is merely "recommended" "suggested" etc., and that people are free to ignore it. It's a CODE - nothing recommended about it, it's a requirement. The bottom line is that compliance with jacket part is still very high. I would be embarrassed if I followed the advice that I could ignore the code and was handed a loaner jacket at the MDR. It's a disservice to others to suggest that's not a distinct possibility.

[SHill64]

Let's look at what's going on in society. Country clubs are ditching their dress code requirements in order to attract a younger demographic and stay relevant (sound familiar? Do older members say "rap" music is too loud in their bars too?). The nicest, trendiest restaurants eliminated the jacket required long ago and while many wear them, few are wearing an actual suit (OK, fine, I think the music is too loud in these places too!). In the workplace, business casual is the norm and it's getting more and more cas all the time. It used to be "casual Friday" and now it's "jeans Friday."

 

Black tie and white tie is now confined to the groom and his ushers, guests at weddings on the East Coast, high school formals, and charity events elsewhere. Suit wearing is for weddings and funerals. You don't have to like it (and parts of me don't), but that's the way it is.

 

Why is this happening? It's NOT happening in other countries. As much as it pains me to say this, it's OUR society that has dumbed down all of these events. Americans, in general, have become a "lazy" society for a lack of a better phrase. I love being an American and my country(not my current administration), but things are changing and not for the better. We are usually the first ones to board a plane and I sit and watch the other passengers boarding the flight. I cannot believe what some people wear while traveling. Back in the mid 80's I worked for Eastern Airlines and as employees, we had to wear a minimum of a dress shirt and tie to fly. Cruise lines are changing for business reasons. I get that. But at some point they all need to stand their ground and have some enforceable requirements.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SHill64

[20pluscruises]

Why is this happening? It's NOT happening in other countries. As much as it pains me to say this, it's OUR society that has dumbed down all of these events. Americans, in general, have become a "lazy" society for a lack of a better phrase. I love being an American and my country(not my current administration), but things are changing and not for the better. We are usually the first ones to board a plane and I sit and watch the other passengers boarding the flight. I cannot believe what some people wear while traveling. Back in the mid 80's I worked for Eastern Airlines and as employees, we had to wear a minimum of a dress shirt and tie to fly. Cruise lines are changing for business reasons. I get that. But at some point the all need to stand their ground and have some enforceable requirements.

 

Well, when the cruise line starts to dumb down the classiness....this is what is going to happen.

[DirtyDawg]

I notice from that daily that formal for gentleman is defined as; Tuxedo, suit, or jacket with slacks. Thanks for posting that. Instead of wearing a suit I might decide to wear a blazer and slacks on my next Celebrity cruise. And nothing there about a tie......

 

Oh Lord, here we go again.:eek:

 

In the next series of posts we'll be seeing the following;

 

1. A definition of 'jacket' which really means dinner jacket. Photos will be included.

 

2. Of course a tie is implied.

 

3. You are the cause of the decline in American civilization.

 

4. And go sail on Carnival, why don't you.

 

:D

[SHill64]

I notice from that daily that formal for gentleman is defined as; Tuxedo, suit, or jacket with slacks. Thanks for posting that. Instead of wearing a suit I might decide to wear a blazer and slacks on my next Celebrity cruise. And nothing there about a tie......

 

And you told me last week that a long tie opposed to a bow tie is a disservice to a tuxedo and formal night? :confused:

 

FYI, a blazer and slacks is not formal wear. Just because Celebrity or anyone else says it, doesn't make it true. I've seen guys your age wear a blazer older than me. Not a pretty sight. Again, am I offended by men that dress like this? No. I'm disappointed at Celebrity for dumbing down the dress code.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SHill64

[Host Walt]

After many post removals (personal shots and squabbles) another dress code thread bites the dust.