China smog

[Gismofla]

I am thinking of going to china in September. I am wondering if the smog is very bad in Beijing that its hard to breathe and you have to wear masks. Thanks

[Ashland]

We were in China on a land trip for two weeks during this month (2012) visiting..Beijing, Xi'an & Shanghai...and luckily we didn't experience heavy smog or more than we're used to at all..but that can and does change..We saw no one wearing them and we certainly didn't wear masks either...Enjoy China we certainly did.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Ashland

[Trend]

We were in Beijing this past Sept and I have bad asthma, no problem there because of moisture in the air at that time of year. The weather was warm but not hot. Some rain and some sun, hope this helps.

[Gunner22aa]

Spent 4 days there prior to our Asia cruise. Three days were fine (by Beijing standards, think a smoggy LA day) and one was simply described as horrible. The air was a brown haze and visability was 300 yds. Thankfully that day we were off to the Great Wall well out of town. Beijing sits in a bowl of the surrounding hills and the prevailing winds push into that bowl. There are 17 coal fired electric plants in or near the city (according to our guide). Over half of these were intentially shut down to help improve the air quality for the Olympics leaving many of the locals without power for the duration. Bottom line is that it can be fine and it can't.

[shoshona2]

Saw the news from Beijing this week and the air is terrible -- couldn't see across the street. Sorry, but I live in Los Angeles and it was like that 60 years ago when people burned their trash in the back yards. One Chinese Zillionaire said his greatest wish for his children was to see blue sky.

 

Sheila

[uktog]

In Shanghai and Beijing this last month on business, the smog /pollution is the worst I have known it. It seems to be getting worse year on year. If you have breathing difficulties, it may well affect you quite a bit

[Trend]

The smog settles in at that time of year. It has to do with winds and temperature. We travel in Sept and as I said I have very bad asthma and did not have problems even in Beijing.

[TravelMore&More]

"...Saw the news from Beijing this week and the air is terrible ..." and you believe what you see on news all the time. Then you need to read this: http://qz.com/168705/westerners-are-so-convinced-china-is-a-dystopian-hellscape-theyll-share-anything-that-confirms-it/?utm_source=The+Sinocism+China+Newsletter&utm_campaign=1cafe5cf92-Sinocism1.24.14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_171f237867-1cafe5cf92-29594645

The story about the Chinese billionaire whose dream is that his kids can one day see blue skies, right. It reminds me of the tourist who posted being told by his 20-something guide that she had never seen stars in the sky in Beijing in her life. I lived there a few years and can assure you that I could see the stars in the sky all the time. It reminds me of a funny piece in a local magazine called "stories we tell the tourists".

Just enjoy your trip. he smog will be what it is. Depends on the weather, nothing you can do about it. Beijing also gets a fair amount of fog from time to time and sand storms in the spring. Just part of life.

[4774Papa]

I am thinking of going to china in September. I am wondering if the smog is very bad in Beijing that its hard to breathe and you have to wear masks. Thanks

We did a three week land tour with a four day river cruise (Vantage) in September 2012.

Beijing was not bad. It was explained to us that the city cleaned up much of its pollution prior to the Olympics.

The other cities were very smoggy, especially Shanghai, Hong Kong and Chongqing. Xi'an and Gillum were bad as well.

 

I loved China and am very glad that I did it, but if you have COPD or a respiratory disease, you should talk with your doctor prior to going to China.

[shoshona2]

dear TravelMore&more,

 

I have been to Beijing over the past 30 years three times. I have been on this board for years and I have never had any one reply as you did by quoting me. I saw the news and it WAS Beijing not a myth or a false story. You have only been posting for a short time and people who post regularly as I do like to give people some advice. If anyone wants to go to Beijing and wear a mask for breathing purposes, they can do so.

 

Happy traveling to you.

 

Sheila

[MVPinBoynton]

We will be in Beijing in March. Is the smog normally better that time of year?

[Duane T]

I am thinking of going to china in September. I am wondering if the smog is very bad in Beijing that its hard to breathe and you have to wear masks. Thanks

 

We spent 5 days in Beijing just at the tail end of Golden week the first week of October. We were aware that the fog/smog can hit the city depending on wind, temps, industrial activities, etc. But we had absolutely great clear weather.

 

But we had smoggier weather in Shanghai and foggier weather in Hong Kong. So plan your trip to...you can't always control the weather. Hope the best and have a great trip!

[Trend]

As I said we travel for business and pleasure middle of September almost every year and at tha time of year we have never had a problem. My asthma has not acted up in either Beijing,Shanghai, Chongchin and this year Guilin as well we are always in Hong Kong. I do however remember many years ago being in Hong Kong in March and did have a lot of fog. Again weather inversions wind all play a part of moving the bad air in or out.

[TravelMore&More]

dear TravelMore&more,

 

I have been to Beijing over the past 30 years three times. I have been on this board for years and I have never had any one reply as you did by quoting me. I saw the news and it WAS Beijing not a myth or a false story. You have only been posting for a short time and people who post regularly as I do like to give people some advice. If anyone wants to go to Beijing and wear a mask for breathing purposes, they can do so.

 

Happy traveling to you.

 

Sheila

 

Dear Sheila,

My point was simply that one cannot believe everything that you read in the news. While you have been to China 3 times, I have actually been living there for a few years and I am always amazed by what I read in western media.

And I don't see the link between how long on has been on the forum and the quality of the advice. You find 2 kinds on info on forums. One is facts and for this there is only one answer. How much is the entry fee at the forbidden city, that is a fact. Whether it is worth visiting some attraction is a matter of opinion and everybody has one. There is no unique answer.

And sure people can wear masks if they wish, nothing wrong with this. I can have the opinion that one MUST wear a mask or I can have the opinion that it is a waste of money. In the end, people can make their own decision based on the opinions of strangers that they have never met.

[greatam]

It was explained to us that the city cleaned up much of its pollution prior to the Olympics.

 

I am chuckling at this. The pollution was cleaned up for the Olympics BY SHUTTING DOWN THE FACTORIES. That reduced the pollution so the Western world thought all was well. Just as soon as the Olympic visitors were safely out of sight, the factories restarted and the coal fired power plants (SOFT coal at that with no scrubbers) were put back at full megawatt capacity. The guides are just passing out the party line propaganda

 

I loved China and am very glad that I did it, but if you have COPD or a respiratory disease, you should talk with your doctor prior to going to China.

 

I can't stand going back to China. In fact, I have cut our Chinese business by almost 2/3 just because of all the graft, corruption and the superior attitude by Chinese business people that the world is stupid and they can ship their contaminated food outside their country and no one is the wiser. We now REFUSE to do logistics planning for any Chinese company that will not produce a USDA certificate that their fish, fruit or other food products are SAFE. This policy took about 2 million out of our bottom line but better that than getting sued for contaminated product, killing someone because of the contamination or ending up with product which is STUCK in the port because it cannot enter the USA and we are responsible for demurrage, transport and disposal if need be.

 

I was born and raised in Los Angeles. Saw the worst of the smog in the 60's-70's that everyone in the USA remembers and speaks about. Los Angeles has NOTHING on Beijing/other parts of China when the smog is bad in China. It has been so bad there at times that I couldn't see across the road from the 16th floor of the Beijing hotel (now Raffles Beijing). If it is smoggy in China, it is BAD, BAD, BAD!!!

Edited February 3, 2014 by greatam

[shoshona2]

To greatam,

 

Thank you for posting your very accurate report of your experiences in China. I agree with you 100%. TravelMore&More seems to think that we are all making up lies or believing media reports to be true. I have a list of US companies which are buying food from China and packaging it in the USA and have sent it to all my family and friends so they are aware of what is happening there.

 

Sheila

[uktog]

To greatam,

 

Thank you for posting your very accurate report of your experiences in China. I agree with you 100%. TravelMore&More seems to think that we are all making up lies or believing media reports to be true. I have a list of US companies which are buying food from China and packaging it in the USA and have sent it to all my family and friends so they are aware of what is happening there.

 

Sheila

 

Well said.

Of the 8 of us on our business trip that ended last week, 5 are currently receiving medical care for chest issues, these are not "elderly" persons, the average age of the team was mid 50s.

We brought back some Chinese newspapers in English and have been amusing ourselves at the spin presented on a number of things but bottom line us

* the smog IS an issue and it's getting worse.

* do not believe any product you see there as being genuine! and for that read any food drink anything

 

However, if you keep your wits about you and are prepared for an adventure you can have a really interesting experience

 

And yes, I will be back working there for 5 weeks very soon visa willing - now that's another story

[DipBrat]

I am not sure where you live TravelMoreandMore, but I lived in Beijing and I don't know anyone, locals or expat who thinks the air is no big deal or exaggerated by the media. It is indescribably bad and really has to be seen to be believed. September is often one of the cleaner months, but it still can be bad. For reference bad is up to 10 times worse than pollution levels of the worst smog alert day in Los Angeles and about 100 times worse than the average day in a clean city such as Washington DC. That said a healthy short term visitor is unlikely to be impacted too much by the pollution.

[4774Papa]

I am chuckling at this. The pollution was cleaned up for the Olympics BY SHUTTING DOWN THE FACTORIES. That reduced the pollution so the Western world thought all was well. Just as soon as the Olympic visitors were safely out of sight, the factories restarted and the coal fired power plants (SOFT coal at that with no scrubbers) were put back at full megawatt capacity. The guides are just passing out the party line propaganda

 

 

 

I can't stand going back to China. In fact, I have cut our Chinese business by almost 2/3 just because of all the graft, corruption and the superior attitude by Chinese business people that the world is stupid and they can ship their contaminated food outside their country and no one is the wiser. We now REFUSE to do logistics planning for any Chinese company that will not produce a USDA certificate that their fish, fruit or other food products are SAFE. This policy took about 2 million out of our bottom line but better that than getting sued for contaminated product, killing someone because of the contamination or ending up with product which is STUCK in the port because it cannot enter the USA and we are responsible for demurrage, transport and disposal if need be.

 

I was born and raised in Los Angeles. Saw the worst of the smog in the 60's-70's that everyone in the USA remembers and speaks about. Los Angeles has NOTHING on Beijing/other parts of China when the smog is bad in China. It has been so bad there at times that I couldn't see across the road from the 16th floor of the Beijing hotel (now Raffles Beijing). If it is smoggy in China, it is BAD, BAD, BAD!!!

 

 

You are probably right about restarting the factories in Bejing, but Bejing was the cleanest air that we encountered in the entire country, except while on the Li river in the South. We did a home visit in the old section of Bejing and it seemed that burning coal was no longer allowed by homeowners in the city since the Olympics.

 

We were warned about eating just anywhere. There is a certification for restaurants that cater to tourists, as well as restaurants in the nice hotels. Our Program Manager, who lives in Bejing said that Vantage only took us to certified restaurants were the food was safe. His mother was a Doctor and he indicated that he did not eat just anywhere himself.

 

We were told that many of the wealthy Chinese people want to leave China, because of the pollution, bad food and just too many people.

[alex1981]

We went to Beijing for a week which coincided with Golden Week. It was crowded but we had good weather that first week in October. Maybe it was luck but I was told by some of the locals everyone is on vacation so a lot of factories were closed or scaled back so less pollution. Not sure I totally believed that story but I was grateful for the clear skies and sunny weather.

[MVPinBoynton]

Is Shanghai as bad as Beijing?

[uktog]

Is Shanghai as bad as Beijing?

 

It did not used to be, however during the last month they have been returning figures showing worse readings than Beijing. Some said this was just due to unusual weather patterns, others said this was how it would be from now on.

Certainly Beijing has been more proactive in managing the issue (ie all cars have a mandatory one day when they cannot be driven each week)

[MVPinBoynton]

It did not used to be, however during the last month they have been returning figures showing worse readings than Beijing. Some said this was just due to unusual weather patterns, others said this was how it would be from now on.

Certainly Beijing has been more proactive in managing the issue (ie all cars have a mandatory one day when they cannot be driven each week)

 

Oh well, I guess we will have to get plenty of masks for our trip next year. They worked quite well in Hanoi, which had very bad smog when we were there.

[greatam]

. Maybe it was luck but I was told by some of the locals everyone is on vacation so a lot of factories were closed or scaled back so less pollution. Not sure I totally believed that story but I was grateful for the clear skies and sunny weather.

 

Believe the story. Golden Week is the National Holiday. Factories are closed for the most part. But oh, the month before-talk about slave labor. They are producing in 3 weeks what they normally produce in 5 just to meet quotas and get product in containers for shipment.

 

What little bit of business we still do out of China almost triples the two weeks before Golden Week.

 

It is simply amazing that China ships all these bad products (remember the baby food that actually killed Chinese babies before Americans caught the product) and all the dogs that died with product contaminated with melamine which is not only used to make Formica and heat resistant dishes (remember all those melamine plates, cups and saucers from the 70's) but is also a pesticide. And the Chinese company who was exporting wheat gluten, corn gluten and rice protein DENIED, DENIED, DENIED until finally a whistleblower in China smuggled samples to the US Consulate where it was sent to CDC and USDA. It is totally unknown how many dogs died but the estimates are about 4000 because there is no central database for animal deaths. There were 5700 pet food products recalled, many of them very well known US brand names.

 

We do a large business with Vietnam, particularly for fish and specialty fruits. Even though the government is Communist, industry is not totally controlled by the government as it basically is in China. The Vietnamese are so very industrious and of course, they had the influence of the US for many, many years, particularly in the South. They truly DO UNDERSTAND that if you want to ship products to the US or other first world countries, you don't need to sell contaminated products or try to pull a scam. And are more than willing to comply with getting USDA certs and having product inspected BEFORE it leaves Vietnam. The Chinese won't allow it.

 

What I think is one of the neatest things about the Vietnamese-a lot of those large bomb craters we left have been turned into fish farms. Their tiger prawns are some of the best in the world-even better than the Thai tiger prawns which have been the staple for tiger prawns for years and years. And they are raising large amounts of Talapia and Swai, which is regularly sent to the US in huge container lots. A lot of the Talapia and Swai sold in Walmart and other chain/big box/warehouse stores comes from Vietnam.

 

It is a shame the Cambodians haven't caught on to the fish farming. Between the Khmer Rouge, the Chinese, the Vietnamese and the US, there are a lot of bomb craters. The country is EXTREMELY poor with beggars all over Phnom Penh sleeping in the streets. How many jobs could be provided just by turning those bomb craters into fish farms?. Enough to bring the beggar population down quit a bit in my estimation.

 

And the specialty fruits out of Vietnam, particularly dragon fruit, which is really a cactus and grows in Mexico but the Mexicans have never figured out how to make it a crop is sold at VERY high dollar in the USA. It is often featured with chocolate drizzlings in 4 and 5* restaurants. And I have yet to see a buffet at a hotel that caters to Westerners that does not have dragon fruit, so if you get a chance to try it, please do. One of my favorite fruits (next to Kadota figs which are almost impossible to get and we are in the specialty food business). Mangosteen is another fruit grown in SE Asia and imported to the US. Thailand is currently the largest exporter to the US for Mangosteen but Vietnam is rapidly catching up. That is another fruit that sells for VERY high dollar in Asian markets and used in high dollar restaurants in the US. Nobu uses a lot of Mangosteen in various ways.

 

Just a few little helpful hints for your buying experiences in the USA and your tasting experiences in Vietnam. STAY AWAY from the Durian Fruit. While the taste is not bad (actually kind of custardly like), you have to get past the smell (which is really nasty IMHO). Due to the strong smell, it is banned in almost all hotels except on their buffets and also banned on public transport systems in a lot of SE Asia. I saw transit police taking Durian away from travelers on the SkyTrain in Bangkok. The entire car reeked of Durian. NOT hard to figure out who had it.

 

Enjoy Vietnam and Cambodia. They are the real deal as far as safety and good quality food (except for all the knock off products in Vietnam).

[Philob]

"STAY AWAY from the Durian Fruit. While the taste is not bad (actually kind of custardly like), you have to get past the smell (which is really nasty IMHO). Due to the strong smell, it is banned in almost all hotels except on their buffets and also banned on public transport systems in a lot of SE Asia. I saw transit police taking Durian away from travelers on the SkyTrain in Bangkok. The entire car reeked of Durian. NOT hard to figure out who had it."

 

I remember an episode of Bizarre Foods, where Andrew Zimmern was in SE Asia and could not get a piece of Durian down :eek: And you know that guy eats anything.

 

It's not that bad, had some last weekend at a dim sum place: wrapped in a croissant dough and deep fried...yum ;) Soon after we got married, SWMBO brought home a fresh (frozen) one and I got volunteered to open it up. :o Really really tough prickly skin, had to wear leather shop gloves. Our kitchen stunk for a week. :)

Edited February 9, 2014 by Philob