Proof of citizenship crisis!

[Fivehole]

The situation definitely sucks and yes, hindsight is 20/20. Just trying to see what can be salvaged at this point. They made a mistake, plain and simple. Not the first to do so, definitely not the last, either. Not looking good at this hour, maybe best she can do is get resolution on Monday if the passport can be tracked down, perhaps fly to meet the ship in port. Thanks again for all the input!

[Valen9]

And what good does it do to know if the passport is in the mail? The only thing that matters is if you have it in your hands. Calling the number isn't going to change when the passport will arrive. They can't tell you when it's expected to arrive. Maybe they'll get it later today or maybe tomorrow, or maybe next Wednesday when it's too late.

 

That's not what the passport website says these days. If you are within 7 days of your travel date and haven't received your paperwork, you can call them and they might be able to do something. If you can get to a passport office, they can make one in a single day. While there's little hope for these folks on a Friday evening, calling the number in this situation is not without point.

[triptolemus]

I have to laugh at your telling him to get a passport -- his problem was caused by his passport not getting back in time, and the birth certificate was sent with the passport application.

 

Nice of you to laugh the wording was meant for those (not the OP) who have not applied or renewed their passport. Simply poorly worded on my part. Silly of me but I'm happy to admit when I've goofed.

 

Don't worry, KC. NMLady is the one who really has it wrong. His problem is caused by failing to send for or obtain the proper documents in time. Perhaps poor wording on her part??

[antsnanny]

First, let me start by asking you to please thank your friend for his service to this country. Its too bad his military ID isn't enough, it should be. If this were me I would reach out to NCL, ask for someone in management and explain. Perhaps they can help. Remember to ask for someone in management who actually has the authority to do something for you.

[hawkeyetlse]

Doesn't NCL require the original BC to board??

I don't know. I was going by the text that russianmom quoted earlier ("an original or copy of his or her birth certificate"), but NCL may have stricter requirements. I've never used my birth certificate as a travel document.

[CI66774]

Unless he has his BC or (CoC, etc.), I'm afraid he' out of luck. Unless he has cancel for any reason insurance, this circumstance typically isn't a "covered" event. So sorry for your friend.

[ColinIllinois]

First, let me start by asking you to please thank your friend for his service to this country. Its too bad his military ID isn't enough, it should be. If this were me I would reach out to NCL, ask for someone in management and explain. Perhaps they can help. Remember to ask for someone in management who actually has the authority to do something for you.

 

 

A military ID is not proof of citizenship. You can be in the U.S. military and not be a U.S. citizen.

[njhorseman]

That's not what the passport website says these days. If you are within 7 days of your travel date and haven't received your paperwork, you can call them and they might be able to do something. If you can get to a passport office, they can make one in a single day. While there's little hope for these folks on a Friday evening, calling the number in this situation is not without point.

 

Please explain how an office that isn't open can help you get a passport. I don't know where the person lives, but I checked the hours for the NY office. It closes at 3 pm. Other cities that I checked closed anywhere from 3 pm to 4:30, with most at 3 or 3:30.

 

Also, you can't get a passport without proof of citizenship and this person's birth certificate is somewhere...but not in his possession, so there's no way the passport office, even if it were open, could help him.

 

There is no point to calling about something that can't be done. Calling within 7 days prior to your travel is a lot different than calling 3 hours before the office closes.

Edited January 25, 2014 by njhorseman

[sparks1093]

I wouldn't count on that, because once, when I was on a Royal cruise, I met a woman who was denied boarding because she mistakenly brought her old, expired passport with her instead of her brand new one. She had to go home, get her brand new passport and fly to San Juan, the first port of call, to board the ship.

 

What I believe the poster you are quoting meant was that the expired passport could have been sent in with the passport application instead of the birth certificates (there are time frames etc. that would apply).

[sparks1093]

Would that have helped??

Doesn't NCL require the original BC to board?? I've never sailed them without a passport - so I might be wrong, but I didn't think a photo copy or photo would be accepted. :o

 

The DHS regulations do allow passengers to use copies and I have read about NCL allowing boarding for someone whose birth certificate was faxed to the port (and on our first family cruise DS#3's birth certificate looked like a copy because it was on plain white paper).

 

In any event I would rather show up with a copy of my birth certificate than with nothing at all.

[sparks1093]

Don't worry, KC. NMLady is the one who really has it wrong. His problem is caused by failing to send for or obtain the proper documents in time. Perhaps poor wording on her part??

 

Since we don't know exactly when the passport was applied for it is difficult to make that determination (that the OP's friend failed to apply in time). (Yes, they should have made copies before sending the application off but hindsight is always 20/20.)

[Out to sea!]

First, let me start by asking you to please thank your friend for his service to this country. Its too bad his military ID isn't enough, it should be. If this were me I would reach out to NCL, ask for someone in management and explain. Perhaps they can help. Remember to ask for someone in management who actually has the authority to do something for you.

 

The one thing that has to be remembered is that non-citizens can join the US military. They do have to become citizens prior to their 1st reenlistment but just because they have a military ID card does not mean they are a US citizen and that's why a US military ID card cannot be used as proof of citizenship.

[NMLady]

Don't worry, KC. NMLady is the one who really has it wrong. His problem is caused by failing to send for or obtain the proper documents in time. Perhaps poor wording on her part??

 

How do you know when OP's friend sent for passport? That is not mentioned, but it is a fact friend did not receive passport on time, which is what I said.

Edited January 25, 2014 by NMLady

[sassyredhat]

My brother is in the same situation even though we booked our cruise 2 yrs. ago. :eek:

 

My TA said you have to have a certified copy of something to prove citizenship.

My brother was born in Mexico to US citizens, but the birth was never registered in either country. He is having problems getting a BC.

 

Perhaps a certified copy of the parents marriage license plus another document would help.

 

At any rate, my brother will have to miss this cruise..:(

 

Pat

Edited January 25, 2014 by sassyredhat

[punkincc]

County offices open on Saturday? Around here you're lucky if they're open on weekdays when they're supposed to be. :rolleyes:

 

And what good does it do to know if the passport is in the mail? The only thing that matters is if you have it in your hands. Calling the number isn't going to change when the passport will arrive. They can't tell you when it's expected to arrive. Maybe they'll get it later today or maybe tomorrow, or maybe next Wednesday when it's too late.

 

That's not what the passport website says these days. If you are within 7 days of your travel date and haven't received your paperwork, you can call them and they might be able to do something. If you can get to a passport office, they can make one in a single day. While there's little hope for these folks on a Friday evening, calling the number in this situation is not without point.

 

If I were in the OPs friend's situation, I would not be one to just throw up my hands and say "oh, well, nothing can be done". I would investigate every possibility, however remote.

 

You think the 800# can't tell you when it is scheduled to arrive? When I order a pair of shoes from a store, I can track where the order is and the day it is scheduled for delivery, and they also know when it is delivered. I would think that for something as sensitive as a passport, they would know where it is every step of the way. It is worth a shot in any case, as is trying to get a birth certificate or passport at a local office or seeing if NCL would accept one faxed from the agency who has possession of it. Those who say "not possible, why try" are defeated before they start.

 

Are we not allowed to make suggestions here which may be helpful to other cruisers simply because it may be too late to be useful to the OP?

Edited January 25, 2014 by punkincc

[LrgPizza]

I hope we get an update from the OP to see what the end result is.

[triptolemus]

How do you know when OP's friend sent for passport? That is not mentioned, but it is a fact friend did not receive passport on time, which is what I said.

 

The fact that they don't have the passport pretty much implies that they didn't send for it in time. Doesn't matter when -- it wasn't it in time. You said their problem was caused by not receiving the passport in time. I assert that the root cause of their problem is not sending for it in time.

Edited January 25, 2014 by triptolemus

[njhorseman]

If I were in the OPs friend's situation, I would not be one to just throw up my hands and say "oh, well, nothing can be done". I would investigate every possibility, however remote.

 

You think the 800# can't tell you when it is scheduled to arrive? When I order a pair of shoes from a store, I can track where the order is and the day it is scheduled for delivery, and they also know when it is delivered. I would think that for something as sensitive as a passport, they would know where it is every step of the way. It is worth a shot in any case, as is trying to get a birth certificate or passport at a local office or seeing if NCL would accept one faxed from the agency who has possession of it. Those who say "not possible, why try" are defeated before they start.

 

Are we not allowed to make suggestions here which may be helpful to other cruisers simply because it may be too late to be useful to the OP?

 

Passports aren't sent certified mail. The State Department can tell you when it was mailed. They can't tell you when it will be delivered.

 

Birth certificates are sensitive documents. States don't mail or fax them to someone unidentified person who just calls and claims to be a person entitled to get the document. You have to either go to your local vital statistics office and prove who you are or order them online via a process that requires you to enter sufficient information to provide a reasonable certainty that you're a person entitled to receive the document.

 

Sure you're allowed to make helpful suggestions . Impossibilities aren't helpful, and you can't go to an office that's closed. In fact all you would be doing is wasting the person's time if they chose to pursue the dead ends you gave them. The original post was made on the last business day before the cruise's embarkation date...in fact halfway through the day if the person lives on the east coast.

Edited January 25, 2014 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

My brother is in the same situation even though we booked our cruise 2 yrs. ago. :eek:

 

My TA said you have to have a certified copy of something to prove citizenship.

My brother was born in Mexico to US citizens, but the birth was never registered in either country. He is having problems getting a BC.

 

Perhaps a certified copy of the parents marriage license plus another document would help.

 

At any rate, my brother will have to miss this cruise..:(

 

Pat

 

Rather than speculating about what is required to get a passport, refer your brother to the factual information from the State Department.

 

Here's information on acceptable primary proof of citizenship:

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/new.html#step3

 

Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following):

Previously issued, undamaged, and fully valid U.S. Passport (5 year for minors or 10 years for adults)

*Certified U.S. birth certificate (must meet all of the following requirements):

issued by the City, County, or State of birth

Lists bearer's full name, date of birth, and place of birth

Lists parent(s) full names

Has date filed with registrar's office (must be within one year of birth)

Has registrar's signature

Has embossed, impressed, or multicolored seal of registrar

Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth

Naturalization Certificate

Certificate of Citizenship

 

And here's the information on secondary evidence of citizenship, since it appears he doesn't have any of the above acceptable primary proof (I won't paste it into this reply since the page is very long. Just follow the link):

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/information/secondary-evidence.html

Edited January 25, 2014 by njhorseman

[punkincc]

Passports aren't sent certified mail. The State Department can tell you when it was mailed. They can't tell you when it will be delivered.

 

Birth certificates are sensitive documents. States don't mail or fax them to someone unidentified person who just calls and claims to be a person entitled to get the document. You have to either go to your local vital statistics office and prove who you are or order them online via a process that requires you to enter sufficient information to provide a reasonable certainty that you're a person entitled to receive the document.

 

Sure you're allowed to make helpful suggestions . Impossibilities aren't helpful, and you can't go to an office that's closed. In fact all you would be doing is wasting the person's time if they chose to pursue the dead ends you gave them. The original post was made on the last business day before the cruise's embarkation date...in fact halfway through the day if the person lives on the east coast.

 

A passport is not a "sensitive document"? I really don't remember how my passport was mailed and you may be right, but it would really surprise me if the 800 # could not tell you the status.

 

I believe my suggestions were to:

 

#1. Call the National Passport Information Center to see if they can check the status or offer any suggestions or assistance.

 

#2. If they are near one of the 25 National Passport Offices, see if they can get an appointment for same day service.

 

#3. Go, in person, to the local government office to get a certified copy of their birth certificate.

 

What about these suggestions do you think is not useful information pertinent to the OPs situation? I have stated that it MAY not help the OP, but someone out there may benefit from it. Most of the info I see on Cruise Critic does not apply to any situation I have or have had, but I file what I learn away for future reference.

 

If the info is not useful to you, then move on and let others decide for themselves what is useful and what is not.

[triptolemus]

I really don't remember how my passport was mailed.

 

It comes in a plain, relatively nondescript manilla envelope, regular snail-mail. Your POC documents are returned in a separate mailing; a white envelope and usually arrive a few days prior to the passport.

Edited January 25, 2014 by triptolemus

[njhorseman]

A passport is not a "sensitive document"? I really don't remember how my passport was mailed and you may be right, but it would really surprise me if the 800 # could not tell you the status.

 

I believe my suggestions were to:

 

#1. Call the National Passport Information Center to see if they can check the status or offer any suggestions or assistance.

 

#2. If they are near one of the 25 National Passport Offices, see if they can get an appointment for same day service.

 

#3. Go, in person, to the local government office to get a certified copy of their birth certificate.

 

What about these suggestions do you think is not useful information pertinent to the OPs situation? I have stated that it MAY not help the OP, but someone out there may benefit from it. Most of the info I see on Cruise Critic does not apply to any situation I have or have had, but I file what I learn away for future reference.

 

If the info is not useful to you, then move on and let others decide for themselves what is useful and what is not.

 

As already noted, passports are sent via ordinary snail mail. There is no way to say when they'll arrive.

 

By the way, even shipments that are "guaranteed" to arrive by a particular date aren't always delivered on time. It's happened to me more than once. It might happen to that shoe order that you're so confident about because you can trace it. It happened to a lot of people this past Christmas because UPS and to a lesser extent FedEx were overburdened and didn't fulfill their promises.

 

Of your suggestions, the only one with even the most remote chance of succeeding was going to the local office responsible for birth records and try to get another BC there. But the person would have to live within a short drive of that office , as you acknoeledged(remember it was already Friday afternoon), and it would have to be in a state, county or city that provides for immediate access to birth records. That is becoming increasingly uncommon. It's very common to be required that BCs be ordered through a third party vendor (VitalChek) or even if you can order the BC in person at a local office it actually won't be produced there on the spot and you'll have to wait several days after ordering it before it arrives.

 

If you had just suggested trying to get the replacement BC I wouldn't have objected because at least there is some chance it could be done, even if it was only a slight chance. Your other suggestions had zero chance of success and trying them would only waste the precious little time available...time that could have been better used pursuing the one option that might work.

[punkincc]

As already noted, passports are sent via ordinary snail mail. There is no way to say when they'll arrive.

 

By the way, even shipments that are "guaranteed" to arrive by a particular date aren't always delivered on time. It's happened to me more than once. It might happen to that shoe order that you're so confident about because you can trace it. It happened to a lot of people this past Christmas because UPS and to a lesser extent FedEx were overburdened and didn't fulfill their promises.

 

Of your suggestions, the only one with even the most remote chance of succeeding was going to the local office responsible for birth records and try to get another BC there. But the person would have to live within a short drive of that office , as you acknoeledged(remember it was already Friday afternoon), and it would have to be in a state, county or city that provides for immediate access to birth records. That is becoming increasingly uncommon. It's very common to be required that BCs be ordered through a third party vendor (VitalChek) or even if you can order the BC in person at a local office it actually won't be produced there on the spot and you'll have to wait several days after ordering it before it arrives.

 

If you had just suggested trying to get the replacement BC I wouldn't have objected because at least there is some chance it could be done, even if it was only a slight chance. Your other suggestions had zero chance of success and trying them would only waste the precious little time available...time that could have been better used pursuing the one option that might work.

 

 

So for the sake of argument, let's say I am cruising in 2 weeks and the passport I applied for 6 weeks ago has not arrived. If I call the 800 # and they tell me the passport has been issued and mailed, then I can be reasonably assured that I will get it prior to the cruise! You can even register at Travel.State.Gov to track the status and request email alerts. I don't know why this would not be useful info for someone at some time, even if it does not help the OP in this situation.

 

As far as getting a BC on the spot, 2 other posters have stated they have done that, as have I, so while not guaranteed in every situation, again, it is useful info to have.

[njhorseman]

So for the sake of argument, let's say I am cruising in 2 weeks and the passport I applied for 6 weeks ago has not arrived. If I call the 800 # and they tell me the passport has been issued and mailed, then I can be reasonably assured that I will get it prior to the cruise! You can even register at Travel.State.Gov to track the status and request email alerts. I don't know why this would not be useful info for someone at some time, even if it does not help the OP in this situation.

 

As far as getting a BC on the spot, 2 other posters have stated they have done that, as have I, so while not guaranteed in every situation, again, it is useful info to have.

 

Two weeks prior to the cruise is a whole different story than 1/2 a business day prior to the cruise. Two weeks out there are lots of things that can be done...as you noted. But 1/2 a day out there is almost nothing that can be done other than the small chance of getting a new BC.

 

You were answering a specific question about a cruiser who didn't have proper documents 1/2 a business day prior to the embarkation date, not posting on a general discussion of how to handle problems with a late arriving passport. If you want to be most helpful direct your advice to the only real potential solution for that particular problem given that the window for solving the problem was only a few hours. The only possible solution was the last thing you mentioned. They could have easily wasted time on the others before trying the only possible solution.

[billie5]

Nice of you to laugh the wording was meant for those (not the OP) who have not applied or renewed their passport. Simply poorly worded on my part. Silly of me but I'm happy to admit when I've goofed.

 

I also started laughing when I read your post, esp. since no part of it could be of any assistance to OP. But what a pleasure it is to read from a CCer who is more than willing to admit when he has goofed. We need more like you.