Steel is cut!

[GPoll189]

Some one asked where she will probably be deployed. If I remember correctly the Noordam started sailing in February out of New York to the Caribbean. It would be great if they brought this ship to New York. We really miss the Noordam here.

[jrzebird]

Some one asked where she will probably be deployed. If I remember correctly the Noordam started sailing in February out of New York to the Caribbean. It would be great if they brought this ship to New York. We really miss the Noordam here.

 

Now THAT would be a dream come true!

[AlohaPride]

Some one asked where she will probably be deployed. If I remember correctly the Noordam started sailing in February out of New York to the Caribbean. It would be great if they brought this ship to New York. We really miss the Noordam here.

 

That was a really great cruise :) I miss that itinerary.

 

Sent from my SGH-T779 using Tapatalk

[InTheWASide]

Some one asked where she will probably be deployed. If I remember correctly the Noordam started sailing in February out of New York to the Caribbean. It would be great if they brought this ship to New York. We really miss the Noordam here.

 

Keep in mind though, the NY/NJ region already has or will have Norwegian Breakaway, Quantum of the Seas, it is HEAVILY rumored Carnival Vista will be a NY ship and that is why they are moving Splendor out... so if they did put their biggest, best, newest in NYC it would only be several years after everyone else and as the ship is more evolutionary than revolutionary as opposed to being a ship of an all new heavily laden with features class for their respective lines, I think HAL would get the short end of the stick in that market.

 

The way of the past was that for the most part a new HAL ship would come out, likely service the Med the first summer, come across, have a Caribbean season then make its way to Alaska for at least one round. (Noordam did it in 2007 for instance) however the ships with the highest ROI ratios are now ONLY in the markets where fares are low so spending is expected to be higher (Eastern Caribbean and Mediterranean).

 

As best I can determine and from what I just expect to see from a HAL newbuild, here are some guesses:

 

Pinnacle Class will have a highly similar layout with some obvious differences, most of which can be determined from viewing a rendering, but I expect most venues will still largely be how we know them now. A 3 story atrium, a 2 story dining room and knowing Tihany there will likely be a huge wine tower, a Queen's Lounge I predict to be 2 levels due to similar venues on Costa and Cunard's versions of a similar design, likely a dedicated Culinary Arts Center not playing double duty as a game show/HALCat space, a show lounge of either 3 (or 2 if they use the space more intelligently) decks, a reorganization of the top decks including a 2 story lido pool area and I'm going to assume cabanas will make an appearance again... maybe also a big screen (Interesting tidbit, did you know Nieuw Amsterdam was originally going to have a "Retreat" such as Veendam DID and Rotterdam DOES have?), Tamarind will probably have a design tweaked a bit more and will be located in a place that passengers can actually FIND (why did YOU think it was usually half empty when the food is the most incredible across the fleet?).

 

I imagine that an incarnation of MIX will likely show itself on the new ship... why conceptualize all of those spaces and logos if not to bring them nearly fleetwide, although the fact Volendam and Zaandam have never been TOUCHED with those modernizations confuses me), I think Le Cirque in a venue of its own is a certainty but I expect Canaletto will still have a corner of the buffet space and I'm thinking some kind of special chef restaurant maybe more along the lines of like a Restaurant 2 on Seabourn or something from the luxury sector... gee I wonder where that influence could come from... I also expect that like all other ships there will be an overall theme tying this one together, maybe something that has been done before on another ship but reinterpreted in a more modern style. Maybe single rooms, but I wouldn't hold my breath, but perhaps some rooms with a higher max occupancy. ANd many have reiterated what I've heard that the room styles will be a bit of a departure with much nicer materials... guessing it helps to have Seabourn's rolodex for their material suppliers ;)

Edited February 5, 2014 by InTheWASide

[GeriatricNurse]

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news/news-headlines/fincantieri-cuts-steel-for-99500gt-holland-america-newbuild.html

 

 

With a passenger capacity of 3152, I'll pass! ;)

[Ship's Wake]

With a passenger capacity of 3152, I'll pass! ;)

 

New HAL ship:

2660 lower berths, 99500gt, space ratio 37.4

 

Nieuw Amsterdam:

2106 lower berths, 86700gt, space ratio 40.9

 

Celebrity Reflection (latest and largest of Solstice class)

3030 lower berths, 126000gt, space ratio 41.5

 

Quite a change for HAL.

[Topo Gigio]

@ InThe WaSide: what you are saying about the Splendor moving doesnot make any sense, because Vista will come online somewhere in 2016..

[cruisetrail]

New HAL ship:

2660 lower berths, 99500gt, space ratio 37.4

 

Nieuw Amsterdam:

2106 lower berths, 86700gt, space ratio 40.9

 

Celebrity Reflection (latest and largest of Solstice class)

3030 lower berths, 126000gt, space ratio 41.5

 

Quite a change for HAL.

 

Just a friendly reminder that it's a big mistake to draw conclusions from GT (Space Ratio) comparisons while comparing ships built on different design principles.

GT is limited to enclosed part of the ship, i.e. "hotel" part. It does not include open decks!

One can compare Reflection space ratio with MSC Fantasia ships (similar design), but never ever with the Nieuw Amsterdam that is Reflection's antipode.

The Nieuw Amsterdam has incomparably larger open deck space pp vs crowded Reflection. Overall the Nieuw Amsterdam is a much more spacious ship. Space ratio is not applicable in this case.

 

As far as the Pinnacle class Space Ratio is concerned...

Yes. Deep sigh.

We'll see.

:)

[cruisetrail]

Keep in mind though, the NY/NJ region already has or will have Norwegian Breakaway, Quantum of the Seas, it is HEAVILY rumored Carnival Vista will be a NY ship and that is why they are moving Splendor out... so if they did put their biggest, best, newest in NYC it would only be several years after everyone else and as the ship is more evolutionary than revolutionary as opposed to being a ship of an all new heavily laden with features class for their respective lines, I think HAL would get the short end of the stick in that market.

 

 

IMO we can only speculate so far.

 

For us NY is the easiest port to cruise from.

But the ships! :(

What a gap in class compared to what is available in Florida!

So... we fly to Florida.

I would not mind a few more sea days before we reach the Caribbean but not on NCL, Carnival or RCI.

We pay airfare.

If we want to cruise on RCI - it will be Oasis class or Freedom class - neither Explorer, nor Quantum.

Will we take 10 days on the Eurodam from NY instead of 7 days from FLL + airfare?

100% !

The NY area is huge. NY can be a home port for a classy ship. It deserves it.

 

So far NY is our port for cruises to Canada and transatlantic (Queen Mary 2).

Edited February 5, 2014 by cruisetrail

[Mary Ellen]

Just a friendly reminder that it's a big mistake to draw conclusions from GT (Space Ratio) comparisons while comparing ships built on different design principles.

GT is limited to enclosed part of the ship, i.e. "hotel" part. It does not include open decks!

One can compare Reflection space ratio with MSC Fantasia ships (similar design), but never ever with the Nieuw Amsterdam that is Reflection's antipode.

The Nieuw Amsterdam has incomparably larger open deck space pp vs crowded Reflection. Overall the Nieuw Amsterdam is a much more spacious ship. Space ratio is not applicable in this case.

 

As far as the Pinnacle class Space Ratio is concerned...

Yes. Deep sigh.

We'll see.

:)

:confused: Just because a ship has open deck area not included in the space ratio doesn't mean that will alleviate the crowded feeling in the MDR, show room(s), Lido, lounges.... Sorry, space ratio is very important to us. We don't sit around the pool, broiling in the sun. This new class of HAL ships is a 'fail' for us.

[cruisetrail]

:confused: Just because a ship has open deck area not included in the space ratio doesn't mean that will alleviate the crowded feeling in the MDR, show room(s), Lido, lounges.... Sorry, space ratio is very important to us. We don't sit around the pool, broiling in the sun. This new class of HAL ships is a 'fail' for us.

 

Even if a scope of cruising is limited to a hotel part of the ship, it's still necessary for comparisons to take into consideration the differences in ships design.

 

Can open spaces not included into SR "alleviate the crowded feeling in the MDR, show room(s), Lido, lounges"?

Yes, they can!

A show room may not be included in SR at all (Aqua Theaters on Royal Caribbean ships).

A ship may not have a show room (Atrium Theater on AIDA).

A ship may not have MDR (AIDA - only buffets).

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that GT is volume.

What we actually use is square footage of a room, not the volume.

Speaking of the Reflection, the soaring atrium is a huge volume that is included in GT, but is useless practically. It's nice to look though.

 

 

 

 

Understanding Passenger / Space Ratio

 

While collecting information about your upcoming cruise on a new ship, you will definitely come across this term - PSR.

Passenger Space Ratio is gross tonnage divided with passenger capacity of the ship.

 

Theoretically, the higher the ratio the better.

It may give some idea of a ship being crowded or not; which ship provides more comfortable space.

 

However, comparisons based on this popular ratio may be absolutely false and misleading in reality.

 

In this picture the ship #1 has lower space ratio but in fact is less crowded than the ship #2.

 

 

 

This happens because PSR defines volume of enclosed spaces per person.

But in fact we use square footage rather than volume.

Square footage is much more important.

In the example above the ship #2 is less crowded on paper (better PSR due to larger volume) but is more crowded in reality as it has more passengers on the same square footage.

 

Another reason why PSR cannot be universally used is the fact that PSR comletely ignores open spaces on the ship.

Again, PSR is Gross Tonnage (enclosed volume) divided with passenger capacity.

 

That's why PSR is absolutely useless in relation to Oasis class ships, for example.

 

These spaces on the Allure OTS are not included in PSR calculation (they are not enclosed).

The Aqua Theatre, the Boardwalk, the Central Park (BTW most distinctive features) do not exist!

 

This is a "mirage":

 

 

Half a ship is "missing" in "Space Ratio"! :D

 

 

This beautiful terraced aft pool area on a Princess ship is a "mirage" too:

 

[Copper10-8]

Nice pics Cruisetrail! :) Haven't seen it from that vantage point before. Looks like Allure OTS has her own lighthouse inside

Edited February 5, 2014 by Copper10-8

[kangforpres]

I'm a contrarian by nature so the 13,000 more GT and a 1,000 more pax with the same length 938.8 ft has a Signature Class seems from a first take that this ship will be big, beautiful and magificant but also a little crowded.

 

-Paul

[RuthC]

:confused: Just because a ship has open deck area not included in the space ratio doesn't mean that will alleviate the crowded feeling in the MDR, show room(s), Lido, lounges.... Sorry, space ratio is very important to us.

So very true. The crowding in the E-dam Lido is much more severe than the Vista ships, which are much more crowded than the smaller ships.

 

It's just about impossible to get down the walkway when meals are being served. And trying to find a place in the Ocean Bar at cocktail time---yikes!

[cruisetrail]

So very true. The crowding in the E-dam Lido is much more severe than the Vista ships, which are much more crowded than the smaller ships.

 

It's just about impossible to get down the walkway when meals are being served. And trying to find a place in the Ocean Bar at cocktail time---yikes!

 

It is not necessarily very true - Please see the explanation above.

 

 

Well, the Eurodam carries 190 more pax than the Westerdam. How many of them are in the buffet at a given time?

Note that the Lido buffet on the Eurodam has additional "al fresco" area on the open deck, so it's larger on the Eurodam.

Any reasons for "much more severe crowding"? :D

[igraf]

Most of us will be comparing the new HAL ship to existing HAL ships. The designs will be similar enough for direct comparisons of space ratios.

 

Another method is to watch the ships sailing out of Port Everglades on the web cam. It is easy enough to see which ships have the more crowded outdoor decks. The HAL Signature class ships are definitely a bit more crowded on the decks during the sailaways as compared to the older HAL ships.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just a friendly reminder that it's a big mistake to draw conclusions from GT (Space Ratio) comparisons while comparing ships built on different design principles.

GT is limited to enclosed part of the ship, i.e. "hotel" part. It does not include open decks!

One can compare Reflection space ratio with MSC Fantasia ships (similar design), but never ever with the Nieuw Amsterdam that is Reflection's antipode.

The Nieuw Amsterdam has incomparably larger open deck space pp vs crowded Reflection. Overall the Nieuw Amsterdam is a much more spacious ship. Space ratio is not applicable in this case.

 

As far as the Pinnacle class Space Ratio is concerned...

Yes. Deep sigh.

We'll see.

:)

[cruisetrail]

Most of us will be comparing the new HAL ship to existing HAL ships. The designs will be similar enough for direct comparisons of space ratios.

 

Another method is to watch the ships sailing out of Port Everglades on the web cam. It is easy enough to see which ships have the more crowded outdoor decks. The HAL Signature class ships are definitely a bit more crowded on the decks during the sailaways as compared to the older HAL ships.

 

igraf

 

Yes, agree with you.

 

 

Another method is to watch the ships sailing out of Port Everglades on the web cam. It is easy enough to see which ships have the more crowded outdoor decks. The HAL Signature class ships are definitely a bit more crowded on the decks during the sailaways as compared to the older HAL ships.

If so, it would only tell the difference in cruising public: more happy cruisers. More passengers willing to be out and about, to see and to be seen.

No, this is absolutely wrong "method".:)

The Signature class have much more deck space regardless what can be seen on the web cam.

[igraf]

The initial sail-away is a special occasion that draws out a large portion of passengers out on deck. Certainly so when leaving Florida. Several of the mammoth ships (not HAL) are several persons deep along their inadequate external decks. A sad sight to behold, but it does indicate the true situation.

 

I agree that HAL ships in general seems to have more available outside deck space per passenger as compared to other cruise lines, though I would not single out the Signature class ships as the leading HAL contenders. Certainly not on a per passenger basis.

 

igraf

 

 

 

If so, it would only tell the difference in cruising public: more happy cruisers. More passengers willing to be out and about, to see and to be seen.

No, this is absolutely wrong "method".:)

The Signature class have much more deck space regardless what can be seen on the web cam.

Edited February 6, 2014 by igraf

[Mary Ellen]

It is not necessarily very true - Please see the explanation above.

 

 

Well, the Eurodam carries 190 more pax than the Westerdam. How many of them are in the buffet at a given time?

Note that the Lido buffet on the Eurodam has additional "al fresco" area on the open deck, so it's larger on the Eurodam.

Any reasons for "much more severe crowding"? :D

Are you talking about the "al fresco" area lost on the E'dam because of the private cabana area? That loss of space is part of the reason the Lido on the E'dam is more crowded than on the Vista ships. That and the additional passengers. No doubt you'll try to convince us that those additional passengers make the ship more 'spacious'. Having endured the E'dam, I have absolutely no desire to ever cruise on that crowded of a ship again. I've never sailed on the Westerdam, but I have on the Noordam. I'll take the Noordam in a nanosecond over the E'dam.

[Boytjie]

I'm a contrarian by nature so the 13,000 more GT and a 1,000 more pax with the same length 938.8 ft has a Signature Class seems from a first take that this ship will be big, beautiful and magificant but also a little crowded.

 

Remember the ship is also 10 feet wider; it may not sound like much but it makes a difference.

[Captain Rhone]

The news releases I have seen list the new class as having a length of 299.8 m (984 ft), versus 285.4 m(936 ft) for the Signature class, therefore making them almost 50 feet longer.

[cruisetrail]

Are you talking about the "al fresco" area lost on the E'dam because of the private cabana area? That loss of space is part of the reason the Lido on the E'dam is more crowded than on the Vista ships. That and the additional passengers. No doubt you'll try to convince us that those additional passengers make the ship more 'spacious'. Having endured the E'dam, I have absolutely no desire to ever cruise on that crowded of a ship again. I've never sailed on the Westerdam, but I have on the Noordam. I'll take the Noordam in a nanosecond over the E'dam.

 

Lido deck aft.

 

The question was: Well, the Eurodam carries 190 more pax than the Westerdam. How many of them are in the buffet at a given time?

Edited February 6, 2014 by cruisetrail

[InTheWASide]

@ InThe WaSide: what you are saying about the Splendor moving doesnot make any sense, because Vista will come online somewhere in 2016..

 

Not a seemless transfer for sure, but I think Carnival realizes that Splendor there isn't "competition" for the other ships there now and coming soon.

[InTheWASide]

New HAL ship:

2660 lower berths, 99500gt, space ratio 37.4

 

Nieuw Amsterdam:

2106 lower berths, 86700gt, space ratio 40.9

 

Celebrity Reflection (latest and largest of Solstice class)

3030 lower berths, 126000gt, space ratio 41.5

 

Quite a change for HAL.

 

And it's even a higher number for the other four Solstice Class without that extra deck of rooms.

 

I like that HAL is finally entering the arena in an attempt to (maybe) try and take Celebrity's Solstice class head on. HOWEVER, achieving a near identical pax count on double occupancy as Solstice, but in a much smaller package, the line is definitely taking a turn toward exiting the premium market

[InTheWASide]

The news releases I have seen list the new class as having a length of 299.8 m (984 ft), versus 285.4 m(936 ft) for the Signature class, therefore making them almost 50 feet longer.

 

And considerably wider as well