HAL Charter - but HAL still selling the cruise?

[hattack]

Don't be to quick to judge HAL...groups can not always be easily identified for a number of reasons and depending on the terminology of what a ;)group:o is (i.e. large extended family reunion)...alot of folks will book a cruise critics group, for the rate, and have no intentions to take part in any cruise critic group activities

 

Most cruiselines have onboard train staff assigned to the group and they coordinate onboard activities in such a way as not to impact everyone else

 

Also depending on what type of group, the size of the group and the size of the ship, a 650 group may have very little impact on your cruise, in some instance might work to your advantage on full days at sea (pool,spa,dining)

 

it is rare these days for any cruise not to have 5-10 groups onboard

 

Fyi...don't prejudge a group...my experience has proven the more conservative the group...the wilder the late night activities:)

[Globaliser]

ECP and other established music promoters charter the entire ship (i.e. Eurodam) and it is taken out of HAL website inventory ...

But the whole point of this thread is that it is not taken out of HAL website inventory, and HAL continues to sell directly as well as through TAs.

 

If you look at the list of Eurodam ECP charters for January, February and March 2015 which I posted above, all of those weeks are still on sale by HAL.

 

But at least one of those weeks is already completely sold out by ECP. That's the first sailing of The Smooth Jazz Cruise. In fact, ECP had already sold it out before it announced the second sailing of The Smooth Jazz Cruise. When the second sailing was announced, a number of passengers who'd booked the first sailing moved to the second sailing, but ECP's waitlist for the first sailing was already so long that all of the space created by those moves was filled from the waitlist and the first sailing never went back on sale by ECP.

 

This is what's annoying some posters to this thread. There may be little that we can do about HAL's practices in this respect, but at least we have our own charters thread that can act as a warning for people who know to consult it.

[Windsailer]

Don't be to quick to judge HAL...groups can not always be easily identified for a number of reasons and depending on the terminology of what a ;)group:o is (i.e. large extended family reunion)...alot of folks will book a cruise critics group, for the rate, and have no intentions to take part in any cruise critic group activities

 

Most cruiselines have onboard train staff assigned to the group and they coordinate onboard activities in such a way as not to impact everyone else If the Crow's Nest and the Pool is closed for the group's "private function" that certainly impacts regualr guests.

 

Also depending on what type of group, the size of the group and the size of the ship, a 650 group may have very little impact on your cruise, in some instance might work to your advantage on full days at sea (pool,spa,dining) ??? Not sure what you mean by this.

 

it is rare these days for any cruise not to have 5-10 groups onboard

 

Fyi...don't prejudge a group...my experience has proven the more conservative the group...the wilder the late night activities:)

 

I just don't understand why HAL won't tell us - if we ask - if there is a large (say 500 or more) group scheduled to be onboard.

[peaches from georgia]

I just don't understand why HAL won't tell us - if we ask - if there is a large (say 500 or more) group scheduled to be onboard.

Why? Because too many people would cancel if already booked or not book if they ask first and are told about the large group. The ship wouldn't sail full which every cruise line wants to happen. :eek:

[Windsailer]

Why? Because too many people would cancel if already booked or not book if they ask first and are told about the large group. The ship wouldn't sail full which every cruise line wants to happen. :eek:

 

I was actually being facetious. If HAL stepped up to the plate and did a better job of balancing the interests of the groups on board with the interests of non-group passengers, so that it wouldn't be so horrible to be on a ship with a large group, there wouldn't be any reason to cancel.

[spiritkat090909]

So if I didn't mind being on one of these allegedly chartered ships (I like the music & associated people, but don't care about the private functions) that is still being sold to the public... and booked direct through HA at a significantly less rate than that being offered by the charter company... I can expect to be booted off at a later time?

 

If they are going to charter a ship, why not get it done & out of inventory instead of throwing last minute wrenches into travel plans? Or is it last minute? How far out can I expect to get call from HA? Should I book my airfare through Southwest so I can cancel? FYI ... the charter company sells my $2000 cabin for $4000. No way I would pay that for a lower level veranda.

[sherilyn70]

I am now totally annoyed with HAL after booking two cruises in a row and finding out later from CC that large groups were also booked on the same cruise. Of course, the TA or HAL will not tell you that one-third of passengers of a ship are a group. On a large ship with many public venues, a group of 650 passengers may not be intrusive, but on a 2,000 pax ship, you definitely notice it. Perhaps HAL has found that they make more money with these groups. Why don't they just designate one ship for larger groups. Goodbye HAL, I've really enjoyed sailing with you but ...

 

Do you really think other lines don't do the same thing? I was on Royal Caribbean with a very large Beatles group in 2012. They don't tell anyone either when large groups book.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Globaliser]

So if I didn't mind being on one of these allegedly chartered ships (I like the music & associated people, but don't care about the private functions) that is still being sold to the public... and booked direct through HA at a significantly less rate than that being offered by the charter company... I can expect to be booted off at a later time?

Yes, exactly.

FYI ... the charter company sells my $2000 cabin for $4000. No way I would pay that for a lower level veranda.

But the people going on the charter aren't paying that for a cabin on a cruise. They're paying that for a cabin on a cruise plus a lot of very expensive specialist music (if it's a music cruise).

 

For example, we went on one of the ECP cruises recently. One of the artists is a favourite of ours. We saw him perform four times during the cruise, and pretty much from ringside seats. He's coming to London later this year. Tickets for similarly-placed seats are selling for £135 each.

 

So you simply can't compare the charterers rates to the standard cruise-only rates that the cruise line sells. That's an apples/oranges thing.

[Globaliser]

Do you really think other lines don't do the same thing? I was on Royal Caribbean with a very large Beatles group in 2012. They don't tell anyone either when large groups book.

For that matter, other cruise lines also accept full charters but keep selling the cruise directly for a period of time. We once nearly booked an NCL cruise that was still on sale at a time when Olivia were already marketing it as a full charter.

[RocketMan275]

So if I didn't mind being on one of these allegedly chartered ships (I like the music & associated people, but don't care about the private functions) that is still being sold to the public... and booked direct through HA at a significantly less rate than that being offered by the charter company... I can expect to be booted off at a later time?

 

If they are going to charter a ship, why not get it done & out of inventory instead of throwing last minute wrenches into travel plans? Or is it last minute? How far out can I expect to get call from HA? Should I book my airfare through Southwest so I can cancel? FYI ... the charter company sells my $2000 cabin for $4000. No way I would pay that for a lower level veranda.

 

Oh, I think you would mind being on an ECP cruise. From their website: "We do not just lease a ship; we take it over, make the cruise ours and deliver a finished product to our guests that is second to none."

 

As soon as I was alerted to ECP intent to charter Eurodam on a date I had booked, I rebooked since it was apparent how ECP would run things for their clients. I am very particular about cabins and did not want to wait for a bump to a cabin I was not interested in.

 

It's obvious that ECP has an arrangement with HAL/Eurodam that is mutually profitable and is more important to HAL than any interruption to travel plans of other non-charter passengers. By continuing to sell both the charter and the regular cruise, HAL has it both ways. Charters very lucrative. If the charter cancels, HAL will be financial covered by the contract. If HAL has to cancel your reservation, they probably can keep your business (OBC, upgrade, etc). Keeping the cruise on sale lets them win both ways.

 

I agree HAL should disclose when a charter contract has been signed. It's not right to string along customers. This could cause me to go to other lines.

[CJcruzer]

I am currently the keeper of the HAL charter/group/dry dock schedule here on cruise critic.

 

during my research recently, to keep adding dates and info - I am noticing a LOT more groups are booking Celebrity Solstice class ships, and the Freedom/Oasis of the Seas large Royal Caribbean ships!

 

perhaps people are more interested in the amenities of the larger ships than the R and S class ships of HAL?

 

I see groups booked on everything from the super mega size ships to Azamara - 690 pax.....

 

Carol

[RocketMan275]

Do you really think other lines don't do the same thing? I was on Royal Caribbean with a very large Beatles group in 2012. They don't tell anyone either when large groups book.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

I think there is a significant difference between a large group which would not result in having your cruise cancelled and a charter which would have that effect.

[Globaliser]

It's obvious that ECP has an arrangement with HAL/Eurodam that is mutually profitable and is more important to HAL than any interruption to travel plans of other non-charter passengers. By continuing to sell both the charter and the regular cruise, HAL has it both ways. Charters very lucrative. If the charter cancels, HAL will be financial covered by the contract. If HAL has to cancel your reservation, they probably can keep your business (OBC, upgrade, etc). Keeping the cruise on sale lets them win both ways.

 

I agree HAL should disclose when a charter contract has been signed. It's not right to string along customers. This could cause me to go to other lines.

You're really hung up about ECP, for some reason!

 

It's not just ECP that does this; there are many different charterers of HAL ships. HAL is not the only line that does full ship charters, and HAL is not the only line that continues to sell the cruise directly even after the charter has been agreed. I've already mentioned NCL from personal experience, but I've also just been reminded that Seabourn was at one stage doing the same thing for another ECP charter later this year.

 

Certainly, you can go to other lines if you want, but you won't avoid the problem by doing so.

[Globaliser]

Do you really think other lines don't do the same thing? I was on Royal Caribbean with a very large Beatles group in 2012. They don't tell anyone either when large groups book.

I think there is a significant difference between a large group which would not result in having your cruise cancelled and a charter which would have that effect.

This works both ways. If your cruise is cancelled because the ship goes out on a full charter, at least you're not on board a ship that you don't want to be on and you get a chance to pick another cruise.

 

In contrast, if your cruise has a large group, you might find them extremely uncongenial (depending on who they are) and you'd have a much worse experience on your cruise than if you'd been cancelled and you'd picked another cruise altogether.

[RocketMan275]

You're really hung up about ECP, for some reason!

 

It's not just ECP that does this; there are many different charterers of HAL ships. HAL is not the only line that does full ship charters, and HAL is not the only line that continues to sell the cruise directly even after the charter has been agreed. I've already mentioned NCL from personal experience, but I've also just been reminded that Seabourn was at one stage doing the same thing for another ECP charter later this year.

 

Certainly, you can go to other lines if you want, but you won't avoid the problem by doing so.

 

Hung up on ECP? No more than OP who referenced ECP in the original post. BTW, ECP seems to be the predominate charter in the charter thread.

 

I fully understand that one cannot completely avoid charters but you can minimize by selecting cruise lines, certain ships, and certain time frames.

 

The real thing that bothers me is HALs insistence in continuing to sell cabins on chartered ships. Doesn't that seem dishonest or untrustworthy to you? It causes me to question if this is a cruise line I should trust with my business. The fact that other cruise lines do the same is no justification.

[Boytjie]

The real thing that bothers me is HALs insistence in continuing to sell cabins on chartered ships. Doesn't that seem dishonest or untrustworthy to you? It causes me to question if this is a cruise line I should trust with my business. The fact that other cruise lines do the same is no justification.

 

How often and for how long does HALL usually sell it? I can't recall a time that HAL was still selling a cruise that RSVP had chartered - contract signed and publicly announced. I would think HAL will continue to sell it until such time that the final contract has been signed.

[Globaliser]

Hung up on ECP? No more than OP who referenced ECP in the original post. BTW, ECP seems to be the predominate charter in the charter thread.

I think it might be worth your while looking at some older versions of the thread to get a feel for the proportion of HAL charters that ECP does. Try searching for the threads started by English_in_Spain.

 

It may be that one reason that the current list appears to focus on ECP's charters is that CJcruzer is adding all the ECP dates as soon as ECP is publicly announcing them. I'm not sure that this current list accurately reflects the historical balance between ECP's charters and other full ship charters.

The real thing that bothers me is HALs insistence in continuing to sell cabins on chartered ships. Doesn't that seem dishonest or untrustworthy to you? It causes me to question if this is a cruise line I should trust with my business. The fact that other cruise lines do the same is no justification.

I agree with you. But the point is this: as it seems to be an industry practice rather than a HAL practice, booking another cruise line because HAL does this (if you would otherwise have stuck with HAL) seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. And the same applies to booking large and/or disruptive groups without telling other passengers.

 

Better, I think, to use the tools and collective wisdom that we have here on this forum to avoid the specific cruises which are known to pose this issue. I'd rather choose a cruise on the basis of knowledge than to book another cruise line and unknowingly expose myself to the same risks out of ignorance, simply because the denizens of that cruise line's forum haven't collected and published the corresponding information.

[Windsailer]

I am currently the keeper of the HAL charter/group/dry dock schedule here on cruise critic.

 

during my research recently, to keep adding dates and info - I am noticing a LOT more groups are booking Celebrity Solstice class ships, and the Freedom/Oasis of the Seas large Royal Caribbean ships!

 

perhaps people are more interested in the amenities of the larger ships than the R and S class ships of HAL?

 

I see groups booked on everything from the super mega size ships to Azamara - 690 pax.....

 

Carol

 

Carol - I again want to thank you for keeping this list up to date. One question - do you have a feel for whether charters are mostly 7 days or less?

Edited April 9, 2014 by Windsailer

[RocketMan275]

How often and for how long does HALL usually sell it? I can't recall a time that HAL was still selling a cruise that RSVP had chartered - contract signed and publicly announced. I would think HAL will continue to sell it until such time that the final contract has been signed.

 

I booked a cruise on Eurodam on 7 Jan for 1 Mar 2015. I learned on 23 Feb that ECP was advertising a full charter on the same date and ship. As of today, ECP and HAL are both still selling this ship/date. I do not know when ECP began to sell this cruise but double selling has been going on for at least six weeks.

 

I believe HAL is waiting to see if ECP can sell out before removing it from sale. Certainly their right but I believe this deceptive advertising since HAL has entered into, at least, a contingent contract that could adversely affect their other customers.

[Windsailer]

I'm the OP and just checked the HAL website - and HAL is still selling those two cruises that have been fully chartered and sold out. Let me post this scenario. I book one of those two cruises. HAL charges my credit card the day I book. That same day I book my air (at $1000 plus) because I have a discount code I have to use. Two days later HAL calls and says - we have to cancel your booking, we have a full charter and we'll return your deposit. I then ask - what about the air I paid for? Bet the response is "tough luck."

 

This is the reason that HAL needs to take those cruises off their website; and if they insist keeping them on, they should not be taking any bookings. Why I do I feel that HAL sales isn't talking to HAL reservations?

[Boytjie]

I believe HAL is waiting to see if ECP can sell out before removing it from sale. Certainly their right but I believe this deceptive advertising since HAL has entered into, at least, a contingent contract that could adversely affect their other customers.

 

 

My understanding is that once a charter contract is signed the charter has to put up money (all or some of the cost I don't know). If they can't sell the cabins they take a hit, the cruise line gets their money. So I don't know why HAL would be concerned about sales (other than less people onboard spend less on a cruise). Maybe ECP has a different agreement with HAL.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Boytjie

[hattack]

Sounds like a "catch 22"...how can the promoter sell out, if HAL is selling the same cabins for far less...I did a test booking the other day and as I posted then...in less then 72 hours I received both a phone call and email advising me it was chartered (which I knew when I booked it)

 

ECP has been with HAL for a long time and has a track record for sell outs...whatever the contract cut off date is, HAL has made it's operating cost and thru social networking can sell out a specific sailing very quickly

 

Full charters probably require at least a 50% non refundable deposit so only serious promoters do full charters

 

Booking large groups on regular sailing is a different ball game ..if the group leader does not sell out it's cabin allottment within 90-120 days before, the cruise line takes the unsold cabins back and puts into their public inventory...if tt is a music group, that is not a good sigh because cost is prorated over # cabins...if it's a Chess Club, no big deal

 

HAL is pretty savy, they must have a reason

[Boytjie]

Sounds like a "catch 22"...how can the promoter sell out, if HAL is selling the same cabins for far less...

 

 

They don't use the same reservation system.

 

For RSVP cruises we would typically book the next year's cruise while still on the ship (pick a cabin, pay a deposit to RSVP). RSVP only hands over cabin selections to the cruise line much closer to sailing date and only then do we get a cruise line booking number.

[ibfishing2]

Has anyone sailed on one of the "chartered" music tours and been able to participate in the activities.

[Zippercat]

We were on the Eurodam a couple years ago and learned upon boarding that a large (about 900 people, I believe) music group was onboard too. The group took over the showroom in late afternoon a couple times...when nothing else was in there anyway. They also had some of their shows in smaller venues onboard, closed off by a curtain. We sat outside and listened for a while.

 

Other than that, the passengers with the group were all quite nice and the group never bothered us.

 

We also were on Celebrity with a Goth group of around 150 or so people. Again, other than some interesting photo opportunities when they dressed in Goth Formal for a private party they held.