Another child molestation on Disney Dream

[boulders]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/disney-cruise-line-worker-charged-with-molestation-on-ship/25420302

[Johnsblonde]

I would imagine Disney cruises are quite the attraction for pedophiles and pervs of all sorts.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Johnsblonde

[Loonbeam]

Ships are like floating cities, this WILL happen from time to time, but it looks like it was handled appropriately.

[Cruisin MarcnFran]

Surprised they didn't send the crew member home...like they did the last time.

 

Marc

[NJ Mr. E]

I am sad to hear this happened. People are sick and that upsets me to my core.

 

That being said... Although I know it is a corporation and a big one, I think the man, not the ship should be held accountable. I am sure the family will want a check, but like the worker who snuck into a woman's room a couple months ago, any one person can do something bad if they want. A business can't stop that. Background checks and interviews can only do so much.

 

I hope the girl and her family can be ok and heal through this terrible moment. I just don't want people(in general) to put the blame on cruising.

[OCruisers]

Hate hearing this. :(

Certainly this man should face charges ... but Disney did hire him .... :confused:

LuLu

~~~

[Ex techie]

Yep, just another example of DCL shoreside cutting costs to find people and not having the appropriate checks before and after.

It happens on every cruise line unfortunately, but "could" happen less if DCL did tougher checks and had a better report someone onboard process.

 

ex techie

[DahliaRW]

If you are a pedophile who has never been caught, there will be nothing to find in a background check. ..

 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

[Ex techie]

If you are a pedophile who has never been caught, there will be nothing to find in a background check. ..

 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

No, but as a server, you share a cabin, so the cabin mate could help if they see or hear something suspicious.

 

Thankfully, there are no reports of YAC's involved.

 

ex techie

[DahliaRW]

No, but as a server, you share a cabin, so the cabin mate could help if they see or hear something suspicious.

 

Thankfully, there are no reports of YAC's involved.

 

ex techie

 

That is true. But we don't know if this man had any prior offenses, if anyone suspected anything, etc. Most people are not dumb enough to do things that will get them caught. And 10 to 1 this was not his first time, but first time being caught. Most people don't advertise that they are attracted to children, they hide it. And with their working schedules, I doubt cabin mates have that much time together when they are not sleeping.

 

You can't really say that Disney was negligent in hiring this person. There may not have been any red flags. Or they could have missed them. We just don't know.

[chengkp75]

When NCL went to the USCG to get US Mariner's Credentials for non-resident aliens (foreigners who don't live in the US) (US Merchant Mariner's Credentials are limited to US citizens and green card holders) to help them train the US crew on the US flag Hawaiian ships (all crew on US flag ships must hold a US MMC), the USCG was extremely resistant, because one of the prerequisites to issuing the credential was an FBI background check. And act of Congress overrode the USCG's concerns. How is the FBI to do a background check in a foreign country? You have to rely on the local authorities, and there is no guarantee that those authorities are as thorough as US law enforcement. The NRAC credentials issued to the non-resident crew were coded to require additional screening when clearing customs, and their ID cards were color coded to show their status to any officials boarding, as a result of the inability to perform a thorough, vetted background check.

 

This inability to have background checks is just another danger that the US cruising public places themselves under when cruising on foreign flag ships. We, as the US, and Disney in particular, have no means to enforce thorough background checks on foreign citizens.

Edited April 11, 2014 by chengkp75

[Irene7]

I would imagine Disney cruises are quite the attraction for pedophiles and pervs of all sorts.

 

This is why people should never have a false sense of security. Anywhere there are children whether on DCL or any land based resort, camp, schools, etc. is where a pedophile is going to want to be. Just like rapists of grown woman seem to be attracted to other lines attacking woman a lot of the times when she has had lot to drink. These people make me sick.

 

I'm just glad that DCL handled it the right way - (this time).

[Irene7]

I am sad to hear this happened. People are sick and that upsets me to my core.

 

That being said... Although I know it is a corporation and a big one, I think the man, not the ship should be held accountable. I am sure the family will want a check, but like the worker who snuck into a woman's room a couple months ago, any one person can do something bad if they want. A business can't stop that. Background checks and interviews can only do so much.

 

I hope the girl and her family can be ok and heal through this terrible moment. I just don't want people(in general) to put the blame on cruising.

 

I believe you are referring to the incident on HAL. You're right, you just never know. HAL said that crew member had and American Visa and was checked out by our government and there was nothing in his past. He also came highly recommended.

[Loonbeam]

It's also important to note we have no idea of the details of the incident, so its hard to judge what the response should be from DCL. They had him arrested, so there was a clear level of severity and evidence.

 

As I noted, things like this will happen. Background checks are one tool, but as noted, even in the US they are only ask good as what the authorities have found and entered. When you deal with cultures that have less respect for women and girls, those checks become even more suspect.

 

The only thing Disney or any cruise line can do to minimize this risk is communicate clearly at hiring what will happen, keep a wary eye, and have a policy in place that supports the victim if needed.

 

Honestly, with probably 300,000 people on the seas at any one day, I am surprised we don't hear more of this (though I am sure there are unreported incidents for a variety of reasons). It's still far more likely most assaults will occur at the hand of a fellow traveler than a crew member (which completely negates the background check option)

[Irene7]

Yep, just another example of DCL shoreside cutting costs to find people and not having the appropriate checks before and after.

It happens on every cruise line unfortunately, but "could" happen less if DCL did tougher checks and had a better report someone onboard process.

 

ex techie

 

Yeah but an appropriate check didn't help HAL avoid the attack on their ship. I agree all employees need a good thorough check which will help, but unfortunately there are no guarantees. We all need to be careful, especially when it comes to our children.

[chengkp75]

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2014/04/articles/sexual-assault-of-minors/cruise-nightmare-disney-crew-member-arrested-on-charges-of-molesting-child-on-disney-dream/

 

Thanks, I hadn't gotten over to Walker's site for my morning chuckle.

 

How does it happen?

 

As I stated above, until Americans start to vote with their pocketbooks, and require that cruise ships fly the US flag, and have US crew (I know, beating a dead horse), this kind of thing will happen all the time. Disney gets its crew from overseas, using an overseas crewing company. Change them? They're all basically the same, and it's really not the crewing agency's fault for not screening their crew, it falls to the governments of the countries involved to require screening, and to the law enforcement in those countries to provide a thorough, true screening. Even if Disney were to set up their own crewing agency, they would still be at the mercy of local law enforcement for the screening.

[Loonbeam]

Even if they sourced US, unless the person was convicted of a prior act, a background check will still be clean.

 

It's worth stressing, NOTHING will eliminate this from happening, its how you deal with it.

 

Thanks, I hadn't gotten over to Walker's site for my morning chuckle.

 

How does it happen?

 

As I stated above, until Americans start to vote with their pocketbooks, and require that cruise ships fly the US flag, and have US crew (I know, beating a dead horse), this kind of thing will happen all the time. Disney gets its crew from overseas, using an overseas crewing company. Change them? They're all basically the same, and it's really not the crewing agency's fault for not screening their crew, it falls to the governments of the countries involved to require screening, and to the law enforcement in those countries to provide a thorough, true screening. Even if Disney were to set up their own crewing agency, they would still be at the mercy of local law enforcement for the screening.

[Donna_In_India]

 

As I stated above, until Americans start to vote with their pocketbooks, and require that cruise ships fly the US flag, and have US crew (I know, beating a dead horse),

 

I don't think there are any more awful reviews and complaints about crew than there are for NCL's Pride with its all American crew. Just don't think most Americans have what it takes to put up with what normal cruise crews do. I, for one, would not be so thrilled with the prospect of sailing with an American crew.

[chengkp75]

Even if they sourced US, unless the person was convicted of a prior act, a background check will still be clean.

 

It's worth stressing, NOTHING will eliminate this from happening, its how you deal with it.

 

That's true. Also, for a pre-employment background check, it is normally done by a commercial service, contacting the applicant's local law enforcement. For US Merchant Mariners (and unlike the foreign flag ships where only the deck and engine crew are credentialed mariners), everyone on a US flag ship must have a mariner's credential, which includes an FBI background check which entails interviews with listed references as well as local, state, and federal law enforcement.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I just heard this on our news.

So sad.

[DahliaRW]

When NCL went to the USCG to get US Mariner's Credentials for non-resident aliens (foreigners who don't live in the US) (US Merchant Mariner's Credentials are limited to US citizens and green card holders) to help them train the US crew on the US flag Hawaiian ships (all crew on US flag ships must hold a US MMC), the USCG was extremely resistant, because one of the prerequisites to issuing the credential was an FBI background check. And act of Congress overrode the USCG's concerns. How is the FBI to do a background check in a foreign country? You have to rely on the local authorities, and there is no guarantee that those authorities are as thorough as US law enforcement. The NRAC credentials issued to the non-resident crew were coded to require additional screening when clearing customs, and their ID cards were color coded to show their status to any officials boarding, as a result of the inability to perform a thorough, vetted background check.

 

This inability to have background checks is just another danger that the US cruising public places themselves under when cruising on foreign flag ships. We, as the US, and Disney in particular, have no means to enforce thorough background checks on foreign citizens.

 

To be fair, most of the places I take my children have employees that do not have background checks. I don't think restaurants, stores, etc. do. Most likely the nice lady running the snack stand at the kids indoor playground did not either, since parents are required to supervise. I would be most cruise ship employees are more vetted that the average person my child comes into contact with when we're out running errands.

 

I do think the background check issue is why the employees in the kids clubs tend to be from the US or Western Europe, where governments do tend to have better programs for background checks. Disney does seem to be more selective about who is hired to have direct contact with children when parents will not be with them.

 

Thanks, I hadn't gotten over to Walker's site for my morning chuckle.

 

How does it happen?

 

As I stated above, until Americans start to vote with their pocketbooks, and require that cruise ships fly the US flag, and have US crew (I know, beating a dead horse), this kind of thing will happen all the time. Disney gets its crew from overseas, using an overseas crewing company. Change them? They're all basically the same, and it's really not the crewing agency's fault for not screening their crew, it falls to the governments of the countries involved to require screening, and to the law enforcement in those countries to provide a thorough, true screening. Even if Disney were to set up their own crewing agency, they would still be at the mercy of local law enforcement for the screening.

 

You are never going to find enough US Citizens to have the entire cruise ship industry be only nationals. US Citizens are "above" working on ships in most positions. I live in an agricultural area, most of the farm workers are from other countries and come up here on temporary work permits to work the harvests because US Citizens will not do that kind of work for what it pays. And you can say they should get paid more, but then all of us in the US will be whining when food prices go up. It's the same with the cruise industry. It's low pay, and there is a reason most of the "less ideal" positions on the ship are people from countries that tend to be poor. How many people from the US and Western Europe are room stewards or janitorial staff? Without international crew members, there really would not be enough people to run the ship. Even NCL has people who are not US Citizens who are working on their US Flagged ship.

Edited April 11, 2014 by DahliaRW

[Ex techie]

That is true. But we don't know if this man had any prior offenses, if anyone suspected anything, etc. Most people are not dumb enough to do things that will get them caught. And 10 to 1 this was not his first time, but first time being caught. Most people don't advertise that they are attracted to children, they hide it. And with their working schedules, I doubt cabin mates have that much time together when they are not sleeping.

 

You can't really say that Disney was negligent in hiring this person. There may not have been any red flags. Or they could have missed them. We just don't know.

 

As a server you can be birthed with 1 or 2 other people.

You are correct in stating that this man may not have any prior offences, nor would they casually advertise it.

As servers are birthed together because of the similar work schedule, they do spend a fair amount of time in they're cabin together.

 

DCL could require a more thorough background check before hiring personnel, but chose not to.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

Yeah but an appropriate check didn't help HAL avoid the attack on their ship. I agree all employees need a good thorough check which will help, but unfortunately there are no guarantees. We all need to be careful, especially when it comes to our children.

 

I absolutely agree with your statement.

 

ex techie

[DahliaRW]

As a server you can be birthed with 1 or 2 other people.

You are correct in stating that this man may not have any prior offences, nor would they casually advertise it.

As servers are birthed together because of the similar work schedule, they do spend a fair amount of time in they're cabin together.

 

DCL could require a more thorough background check before hiring personnel, but chose not to.

 

ex techie

 

Do you know what the require now and what they could do, specifically, to improve that. Or are you just assuming?

 

Also, servers work a minimum of 84 hours a week. I doubt they spend that much time together in their cabin when they are not sleeping! I'd be exhausted!

Edited April 11, 2014 by DahliaRW

[chengkp75]

To be fair, most of the places I take my children have employees that do not have background checks. I don't think restaurants, stores, etc. do. Most likely the nice lady running the snack stand at the kids indoor playground did not either, since parents are required to supervise. I would be most cruise ship employees are more vetted that the average person my child comes into contact with when we're out running errands.

 

I do think the background check issue is why the employees in the kids clubs tend to be from the US or Western Europe, where governments do tend to have better programs for background checks. Disney does seem to be more selective about who is hired to have direct contact with children when parents will not be with them.

 

 

 

You are never going to find enough US Citizens to have the entire cruise ship industry be only nationals. US Citizens are "above" working on ships in most positions. I live in an agricultural area, most of the farm workers are from other countries and come up here on temporary work permits to work the harvests because US Citizens will not do that kind of work for what it pays. And you can say they should get paid more, but then all of us in the US will be whining when food prices go up. It's the same with the cruise industry. It's low pay, and there is a reason most of the "less ideal" positions on the ship are people from countries that tend to be poor. How many people from the US and Western Europe are room stewards or janitorial staff? Without international crew members, there really would not be enough people to run the ship. Even NCL has people who are not US Citizens who are working on their US Flagged ship.

 

I totally agree with everything you say, what I'm saying is that as long as US cruisers sail on foreign flag ships, they (for the most part unknowingly) place themselves outside of many of the guarantees of life that we expect in the US. You can't have it both ways. Even the adoption of the "cruise passengers bill of rights" was done voluntarily by CLIA. The US had no jurisdiction to require it.

 

And, no, most cruise ship employees have very little vetting. The only NRAC crew on the POA are supervisors who have been brought from the international fleet to train the US crew (who as you have accurately stated do not tend to be amenable to the service industry). These people also have to be vouched for by NCL as if they were on working visas, and have been employees of NCL for a minimum of 10 years.

 

As for cost, just look at the POA, where a 7 day cruise costs as much as a 14 day cruise on a foreign flag ship from the West Coast. I know the cost of the NCL crew, I was on the Hawaiian ships for 4 years. I also know the challenges of getting US workers to meet the service requirements of he cruise industry.