Princess - New Ships??

[timetravler]

While on the Royal last fall a engineer of the Royal said no new small ships will be built. They are money losers and Princess will not build any new small ships because of that. Now it's possible they might buy a small ship from somewhere else if the demand is great. BTW small to me is any ship that carries less then 1,000 passengers.

One more thing, a third ship like the Royal and Regal is being built right now, but it is for P & O lines and will be called the Britannia.

[dmwnc1959]

Fees are based on the weight of the ship in tons . 1 ton is equivalent to 1000 cubic feet The weight of the is equivalent to volume of the ship minus the enginerring spaces , storage area's and tanks. Most ships don't have to include the balconies because they are outside the main structure.

 

This is from the Panama Canal Authority web site on fee determination:

 

"In 2007, continuing with the price differentiation efforts begun in 2002, the ACP modified its regulations for the admeasurement of vessels and the tolls system of the Panama Canal to more closely align Canal toll charges to the value of the route. In the case of passenger vessels, the ACP assessed tolls based on the maximum passenger capacity in accordance with the International Tonnage Certificate 69, or the vessel’s passenger ship safety certificate; vessels over 30,000 gross tons and whose PC/UMS ÷ maximum passenger capacity ratio is equal to or less than 33 were charged on a per berth basis."

 

Tolls based on a per berth basis.

 

 

Do they not still do that?

 

.

Edited April 29, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[dmwnc1959]

So I'm guessing that's why most of the Grand-class never went through the Panama Canal? Because their air draft prevented them from passing under the Bridge of the Americas?

[Pam in CA]

While on the Royal last fall a engineer of the Royal said no new small ships will be built. They are money losers and Princess will not build any new small ships because of that.

Follow the money. It's not so much that small ships are money losers as they are not as efficient or as profitable. The bigger the ship, the more profit.

[IECalCruiser]

So I'm guessing that's why most of the Grand-class never went through the Panama Canal? Because their air draft prevented them from passing under the Bridge of the Americas?

Dave, The current locks are 110 feet wide. The Coral/Island beam is 106' while the Grand ship's beam is 118' except 123' for the Diamond and Sapphire.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[IECalCruiser]

The Bridge of the Americas has a clearance of 201' at high tide. Princess gives values for each ship's height, but is that the air draft or the total height?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[dmwnc1959]

Dave, The current locks are 110 feet wide. The Coral/Island beam is 106' while the Grand ship's beam is 118' except 123' for the Diamond and Sapphire.

 

That's the point I'm trying to make. For these NEW locks (not the current locks) everyone is still focusing on the ships beam (compared to what could fit in the old locks) when they should be focusing on air draft. From what I can determine the Super Grand-class ships are too tall (air draft) to fit under the Bridge of the Americas. Sure they could do a partial transit once the new locks are open, but in order to go from east coast to west coast, they would still have to circumnavigate South America instead of cutting through the new Panama Canal locks. Why? Because their air draft prevents the full transit.

[dmwnc1959]

The Bridge of the Americas has a clearance of 201' at high tide. Princess gives values for each ship's height, but is that the air draft or the total height?

 

Depends on what the value is that they are reporting. From keel to highest point isn't what really matters. From waterline to highest point does. That's what's used in calculating if a ship will clear a bridge.

 

So, say for instance if the Super Grand-class have an air draft of 213' they won't fit under the Bridge of be Americas and will have to go around South America instead of transiting the new locks.

[IECalCruiser]

Depends on what the value is that they are reporting. From keel to highest point isn't what really matters. From waterline to highest point does. That's what's used in calculating if a ship will clear a bridge.

 

 

 

So, say for instance if the Super Grand-class have an air draft of 213' they won't fit under the Bridge of be Americas and will have to go around South America instead of transiting the new locks.

The Princess website lists the height of the Caribbean at 193 feet and the height of the Crown, Emerald and Ruby at 195 feet. Don't know what that means?

 

There was a discussion about the Crown clearing the Lion's Gate Bridge leaving Vancouver. That bridge has a ship's clearance of 200 feet. Not certain if the Crown has sailed out of Vancouver.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

Edited April 30, 2014 by IECalCruiser

[IECalCruiser]

Depends on what the value is that they are reporting. From keel to highest point isn't what really matters. From waterline to highest point does. That's what's used in calculating if a ship will clear a bridge.

 

 

 

So, say for instance if the Super Grand-class have an air draft of 213' they won't fit under the Bridge of be Americas and will have to go around South America instead of transiting the new locks.

Most Grand class ships have a draft around 26 feet.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[Woobstr112G]

The new Panama Canal (any day now, just like Alfa Romeo coming back to the US ...) has led Princess to move Island Princess to Europe as another part of this plan.

 

Sadly, economics make it unlikely that any major cruise line will ever build a new small ship. Larger ships have economies of scale that can't be ignored at this price point.

 

Also due to the fact that most of the Princess fleet can no longer sail out of Venice.....

 

Bob

[dmwnc1959]

The Princess website lists the height of the Caribbean at 193 feet and the height of the Crown, Emerald and Ruby at 195 feet. Don't know what that means?

 

There was a discussion about the Crown clearing the Lion's Gate Bridge leaving Vancouver. That bridge has a ship's clearance of 200 feet. Not certain if the Crown has sailed out of Vancouver.

 

Not sure what the 193' statistic is, but it sounds more like air draft as opposed to total height keel-to-mast. I had this same conversation on another forum many years ago, and one of the members who worked over in Europe at the yards sent me a link showing the Super Grand-class to have a higher air draft than what Princess Cruises shows.

 

Air draft is very important in ports that may require ships to get there by passing under a bridge: Vancouver (as you mentioned), Baltimore, New York City, Jacksonville, Tampa, San Francisco (usually never a problem) Montreal, Sydney (Barangaroo Docks), and a full transit of the Panama Canal (Bridge of the Americas).

 

And for ships to access these places they have to have a minimum clearance under these bridges before the port authority allows them to enter. That may be why certain ships that might clear the bridge aren't allowed access due to concerns over their air draft clearance.

 

.

Edited April 30, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[dmwnc1959]

Here is the Fact Card from Fincantieri that I mentioned showing ship statistics. I don't know how accurate they are, and I know the numbers are a bit hard to read, but it looks like the numbers shown for 'Air Draft' are 54.67m and 67.56m? That seems like a big difference?

 

[dmwnc1959]

The Royal Princess is reported as:

1083 ft. long

155 ft. wide

28 ft. draft

217 ft. high

 

 

THANKS! I'm assuming that's the air draft. If so, then what was said back in Post #8 about these ships being too big (read tall) to transit the Panama Canal even with the new, larger, wider locks due to the navigational clearance (201') of the Bridge of the Americas would be correct.

 

.

Edited April 30, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[IECalCruiser]

Here is the Fact Card from Fincantieri that I mentioned showing ship statistics. I don't know how accurate they are, and I know the numbers are a bit hard to read, but it looks like the numbers shown for 'Air Draft' are 54.67m and 67.56m? That seems like a big difference?

 

Dave, If you look more closely, it appears that the numbers for Air Draft are 64.67m and 67.56m. The first column is for the Grand, Golden and Star and the second is for Hull 6067, the Caribbean. That difference is about 9-1/2' which might be the added height for the Riviera deck. Those numbers equate to 212' and 221-2/3'. That doesn't make sense because the Grand, Golden, Star, Crown and Ruby all sail out of Vancouver and need to sail under the Lion's Gate Bridge.

[dmwnc1959]

Dave, If you look more closely, it appears that the numbers for Air Draft are 64.67m and 67.56m. The first column is for the Grand, Golden and Star and the second is for Hull 6067, the Caribbean. That difference is about 9-1/2' which might be the added height for the Riviera deck. Those numbers equate to 212' and 221-2/3'. That doesn't make sense because the Grand, Golden, Star, Crown and Ruby all sail out of Vancouver and need to sail under the Lion's Gate Bridge.

 

Agreed. Those numbers only confuse me more now. ;)

[caribill]

Here is the Fact Card from Fincantieri that I mentioned showing ship statistics.

 

What I find interesting is that with 600 more passengers, the number of crew cabins and the maxium crew size did not change.

[IECalCruiser]

Looking up information on Panamax ships, I found that the normal air draft limit through the Canal is 190 feet.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[IECalCruiser]

What I find interesting is that with 600 more passengers, the number of crew cabins and the maxium crew size did not change.

It is true. All that was added was another passenger deck.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[dmwnc1959]

Looking up information on Panamax ships, I found that the normal air draft limit through the Canal is 190 feet.

 

THANKS! I knew that data was out there somewhere. I wonder how many current and new build cruise ships that would prevent going through the canal in a full transit even after the new wider and bigger locks open up?