All our luggage stolen from ship after check in

[John Bull]

How come we didn't know about the payment you received? I would have found it relevant for that to have been included in OP.

 

I rarely click links provided on public message forums.

 

 

We did know about that payment. ;)

Yes, the OP should have mentioned it in the post but it was detailed in the link provided. Not reading that link also led to your confusion over jewellery.

 

The link provided was clearly to a cruise critic site, so it was perfectly safe.

 

JB :)

[momofmeg]

We did know about that payment. ;)

Yes, the OP should have mentioned it in the post but it was detailed in the link provided. Not reading that link also led to your confusion over jewellery.

 

The link provided was clearly to a cruise critic site, so it was perfectly safe.

 

JB :)

 

No confusion just a guess on my part. But skiing equipment is expensive so I understood better when I read the OP's reply.

[Krazy Kruizers]

No, Hurtigruten allow "visitors" on to the ships without any security checks or record of identity. Visitors simply walk on, get given a card which says visitor, then are free to roam the ship. On leaving, they simply hand the visitor card back in.

 

In our situation, at 9-9.30pm, when all the guests were in a welcome meeting and there should not have been any visitors the thief came on board, stole our 2 huge suitcases and the staff said goodnight to him when he handed back his visitor card and watched as he walked off into the empty terminal.

 

Common sense should have told them that no passenger would be leaving the ship 30 minutes before the ship set sail, let alone one with a visitors pass.

 

The senior vice president of Hurtigruten hotel operations said to us "they cannot defend the indefensible", but they still refuse to pay us for our stolen possessions.

 

 

Thank you for explaining how people are able to get a visitor's pass on your cruise line.

[Krazy Kruizers]

How come we didn't know about the payment you received? I would have found it relevant for that to have been included in OP.

 

I rarely click links provided on public message forums.

 

 

We did know about that payment. ;)

Yes, the OP should have mentioned it in the post but it was detailed in the link provided. Not reading that link also led to your confusion over jewellery.

 

The link provided was clearly to a cruise critic site, so it was perfectly safe.

 

JB :)

 

 

Right JB -- many of us opened the link and read everything that the OP wrote.

Best to get the facts before commenting.

[sail7seas]

We did know about that payment. ;)

Yes, the OP should have mentioned it in the post but it was detailed in the link provided. Not reading that link also led to your confusion over jewellery.

 

The link provided was clearly to a cruise critic site, so it was perfectly safe.

 

JB :)

 

 

As I mentioned, I usually do not open links provided in these posts. This is another time I chose to not 'click the link'. :) Sometimes if I know the poster, I might. But I am not familiar with this poster.

 

[sail7seas]

Right JB -- many of us opened the link and read everything that the OP wrote.

 

Best to get the facts before commenting.

 

 

My comments are clearly based on what I read here.

I imagine many of us did not open the link. ;)

[Treven]

My comments are clearly based on what I read here.

I imagine many of us did not open the link. ;)

I didn't either. Nor do I, as a rule.

[Shmoo here]

I didn't either. Nor do I, as a rule.

 

Me, either. I will sometimes open a link after a while, if it appears that others have opened it and not reported any problems.

[smeyer418]

first of all I am terribly sorry this happen. does any one else think this is not the first time this happened before on this cruise line and that the "visitors" know this. its inexcusable that the cruise line doesn't exercise due care to put mildly . but its a reminder not to put valuable in anything you have to let go of.

[chengkp75]

I find the OP's explanation of how "visitors" can walk on and off the ship without any proof of ID to be somewhat fishy. First, the port of Bergen must abide by the IMO's ISPS (International Ship and Port Facility Security) Code, which requires port areas to be defined security areas, where proof of identity is required. Second, Hurtigruten must meet these same ISPS regulations, and this must be spelled out in their ISM (International Safety Management) System. I can't walk on the Casco Bay ferry to take a 10 minute ride to Peaks Island without showing my driver's license. So, to my thinking, after 40 years in the industry, is that there will be a proof of identity log with the person's name (it may take the police a while to find the right person), and a security video somewhere in the port area showing the person taking the luggage. Sorry, something here just doesn't add up to me.

[vsgnorwich]

I find the OP's explanation of how "visitors" can walk on and off the ship without any proof of ID to be somewhat fishy. First, the port of Bergen must abide by the IMO's ISPS (International Ship and Port Facility Security) Code, which requires port areas to be defined security areas, where proof of identity is required. Second, Hurtigruten must meet these same ISPS regulations, and this must be spelled out in their ISM (International Safety Management) System. I can't walk on the Casco Bay ferry to take a 10 minute ride to Peaks Island without showing my driver's license. So, to my thinking, after 40 years in the industry, is that there will be a proof of identity log with the person's name (it may take the police a while to find the right person), and a security video somewhere in the port area showing the person taking the luggage. Sorry, something here just doesn't add up to me.

 

Thank you for this information, that may prove very useful for my case. It is a shame that those contributing on here have not been to Norway or been on Hurtigruten. I can assure you my account is completely accurate. This is the whole point of the thread, that people have lost focus on. I was trying to warn people about the complete lack of security that as you point out is expected in 2014. Bergen is the only stop where there is a terminal building. The other stops people just wait on the quayside. The stops are "manned" by one man in a forklift who does the loading and unloading of goods and the ropes. There are no other staff. We watched many near misses where the people were waiting on the quayside to get on when the cargo flap would come down nearly on top of them. Many visitors are local people coming on for a coffee or meal. I can assure you again there are no ID checks or records or bags scanned. My only aim was to warn potential passengers, so they do not ever go through the nightmare that we experienced and continue to suffer as we are financially so out of pocket. I did not expect to be accused of lying. I was asking for help. I am not the criminal here. Please remember that when you posts your replies. I feel we have suffered enough.

[chengkp75]

Thank you for this information, that may prove very useful for my case. It is a shame that those contributing on here have not been to Norway or been on Hurtigruten. I can assure you my account is completely accurate. This is the whole point of the thread, that people have lost focus on. I was trying to warn people about the complete lack of security that as you point out is expected in 2014. Bergen is the only stop where there is a terminal building. The other stops people just wait on the quayside. The stops are "manned" by one man in a forklift who does the loading and unloading of goods and the ropes. There are no other staff. We watched many near misses where the people were waiting on the quayside to get on when the cargo flap would come down nearly on top of them. Many visitors are local people coming on for a coffee or meal. I can assure you again there are no ID checks or records or bags scanned. My only aim was to warn potential passengers, so they do not ever go through the nightmare that we experienced and continue to suffer as we are financially so out of pocket. I did not expect to be accused of lying. I was asking for help. I am not the criminal here. Please remember that when you posts your replies. I feel we have suffered enough.

 

Not accusing anyone of lying, just saying that there may be more to this than you understand. Laymen typically don't understand industries they are not employed in, and there may be nuances here that were not explained to you by the line's personnel or the port personnel. Many people in the industry do not understand all the myriad regulations involved, and customer contact personnel are not always the best trained.

[vsgnorwich]

Not accusing anyone of lying, just saying that there may be more to this than you understand. Laymen typically don't understand industries they are not employed in, and there may be nuances here that were not explained to you by the line's personnel or the port personnel. Many people in the industry do not understand all the myriad regulations involved, and customer contact personnel are not always the best trained.

 

Thank you. I will use your expert information in my case to ABTA and CLIA, who will then see that Hurtigruten are not following industry standards as you outline. As I have written before there was CCTV evidence of the thief leaving with the 2 huge suitcases, but without an ID check or record how will they find him, unless he is well known to the police, but in that case they would have got him by now?

[CaroleSS]

vsgnorwich,

I feel your pain! We traveled to Greece via Heathrow and our bags did not arrive with us. Long story short - our luggage arrived 4 days later, but both bags were completely empty! We did file a police report in Greece.

 

We fussed with British Air for 6 MONTHS trying to get some type of reimbursement (as you have found - the insurance company won't pay until after the "responsible party" either pays something or officially refuses to pay).

 

The moral of the story (mine and yours) is to have your luggage cross packed, try (as best as possible) to keep it under a watchful eye, and to always buy insurance (even if they are hard to deal with).

 

Sorry to hear about your issue. Hang in there!

Edited May 8, 2014 by CaroleSS

[Jonza]

I find the OP's explanation of how "visitors" can walk on and off the ship without any proof of ID to be somewhat fishy. First, the port of Bergen must abide by the IMO's ISPS (International Ship and Port Facility Security) Code, which requires port areas to be defined security areas, where proof of identity is required. Second, Hurtigruten must meet these same ISPS regulations, and this must be spelled out in their ISM (International Safety Management) System. I can't walk on the Casco Bay ferry to take a 10 minute ride to Peaks Island without showing my driver's license. So, to my thinking, after 40 years in the industry, is that there will be a proof of identity log with the person's name (it may take the police a while to find the right person), and a security video somewhere in the port area showing the person taking the luggage. Sorry, something here just doesn't add up to me.

I think that this might not be entirely accurate. To my understanding ISPS only applies to ships in international traffic and ports handling international traffic. As Hurtigruten's coastal route is a domestic route and most if not all quays along the route handle only domestic traffic the route is outside the scope of ISPS.

 

I would also doubt that the ISPS requires checking of IDs for people boarding the ship. For example in the international ferry traffic on the Baltic Sea passengers can purchase tickets online and must provide their information then. After that they can use an automated check-in machines at the terminal to get their boarding card, show it to an automatic gate, and board the ship. However the ferry company does know at least what identity the passenger has given them.

[chengkp75]

I think that this might not be entirely accurate. To my understanding ISPS only applies to ships in international traffic and ports handling international traffic. As Hurtigruten's coastal route is a domestic route and most if not all quays along the route handle only domestic traffic the route is outside the scope of ISPS.While ISPS itself is concerned with international shipping, the European Congress has adopted EC 725, which adopts most of ISPS, and I believe it extends to coastwise shipping as well (I haven't actually read the entire regulation, as it does not apply to me in industry).

 

I would also doubt that the ISPS requires checking of IDs for people boarding the ship. For example in the international ferry traffic on the Baltic Sea passengers can purchase tickets online and must provide their information then. After that they can use an automated check-in machines at the terminal to get their boarding card, show it to an automatic gate, and board the ship. However the ferry company does know at least what identity the passenger has given them.

 

When the passengers you mention get their ticket at the check-in machine, doesn't it require ID? And once you have checked in, can you leave the terminal and return? I am not personally familiar with Norway's implementation of EC 725 or ISPS, and each country can implement as they want, within ISPS guidelines, so long as port facilities are considered secure areas. I would think this would be similar to airport security, where at some point along the way, ID was shown. Now, whether or not Hurtigruten is allowed to use the port facility's security, is up to the flag state, Norway, as per each ship's Security Plan.

 

Norway may have more relaxed ISPS regulations for coastwise shipping than I am aware of (again, haven't read the EC act), but in the US, even taxi drivers that enter port areas are required to have a special ID card (TWIC) which requires a full FBI background check. In today's environment of ISM codes for ship management, I can't believe that a ship's class society is allowing a ship owner to allow anybody onboard without documentation.

[Jonza]

When the passengers you mention get their ticket at the check-in machine, doesn't it require ID? And once you have checked in, can you leave the terminal and return? I am not personally familiar with Norway's implementation of EC 725 or ISPS, and each country can implement as they want, within ISPS guidelines, so long as port facilities are considered secure areas. I would think this would be similar to airport security, where at some point along the way, ID was shown. Now, whether or not Hurtigruten is allowed to use the port facility's security, is up to the flag state, Norway, as per each ship's Security Plan.

 

Norway may have more relaxed ISPS regulations for coastwise shipping than I am aware of (again, haven't read the EC act), but in the US, even taxi drivers that enter port areas are required to have a special ID card (TWIC) which requires a full FBI background check. In today's environment of ISM codes for ship management, I can't believe that a ship's class society is allowing a ship owner to allow anybody onboard without documentation.

 

As Norway is not a member of the EU, the EC 725 has no effect there so how and if they implement ISPS for domestic trafic is up to national jurisdiction of Norway which I know next to nothing of.

 

From what I have experienced on cruiseferries between Finland, Sweden and Estonia, your identity is not really verified. There is naturally a payment trail for the passenger who has paid for the trip and the identity you provide for all the passengers when making the purchase. The check-in machines are similiar to those found on airports so you pretty much just swipe your credit card or loyalty card and print your boarding pass. At that point you can definitely leave the port. Before boarding the ship you will have to pass through a gate where you scan your boarding card and get to go through the gate. No IDs are asked regularly asked at that point. However if you go to a manned check-in counter, at least the person picking up the tickets is typically ID'd. Also I am pretty sure that non-passengers going to the "secure" side are definitely ID'd and access controlled.

[rvsullivan]

I guess I tried to make this point earlier, but perhaps was not clear. This is not an international vessel, it is a domestic ferry! Similar in some respects to a state run ferry here in the U.S.

What comes to mind is the ferry that runs at Galveston island or some of the state ferries in Louisiana. This is not by any means a cruise ship. It is a coastal ferry that stays within the countries borders. It's main purpose is to move cargo and local passenger traffic. Using it as a "cruise ship" is certainly a secondary use at best.

I don't think that any of the international laws/rules/regulations apply.

[vsgnorwich]

I guess I tried to make this point earlier, but perhaps was not clear. This is not an international vessel, it is a domestic ferry! Similar in some respects to a state run ferry here in the U.S.

What comes to mind is the ferry that runs at Galveston island or some of the state ferries in Louisiana. This is not by any means a cruise ship. It is a coastal ferry that stays within the countries borders. It's main purpose is to move cargo and local passenger traffic. Using it as a "cruise ship" is certainly a secondary use at best.

I don't think that any of the international laws/rules/regulations apply.

 

Have you been on Hurtigruten? It only financially survives because of the "cruise" passengers. The Norwegian road system is so good now, unlike 100 years ago when Hurtigruten started, that it is not used that much for cargo and local passengers. Often at ports there was no cargo or local passengers at all. We had a frank discussion with the Hotel Manager and the survival of Hurtigruten relies completely on international guests. Here, as you point out, may be where the weakness and contradiction lies. We, as international cruisers, booking through cruise agents or at cruise fairs expect the same security standards. Hurtigruten, it seems, from what you are suggesting, does not have to abide by these standards, hence my warning to potential guests. Clearly if one is paying way above average cruise prices, not ferry prices, one expects a certain level of service.

[John Bull]

I guess I tried to make this point earlier, but perhaps was not clear. This is not an international vessel, it is a domestic ferry!

I don't think that any of the international laws/rules/regulations apply.

 

As the OP says, its not your conventional ferry.

But neither is it your conventional cruise ship.

I've not sailed Hurtigruten but several friends have - always as a "cruise".

Its mixed duties, & the fact that it sticks to Norwegian ports, make it very different to mass-market cruise lines.

 

I have no idea what laws it has to obey, I suspect less than the average cross-channel ferry which plies between member-states of the EU.

And that may be the loophole if "usual" security standards aren't maintained.

 

But Hurtigruten do have a duty of care. It seems that by offering compensation they've acknowledged liability (unless the offer was expressly described as a goodwill gesture), and it's only the size of the compensation that's in dispute.

I hope that a fair and proper settlement is reached.

 

JB :)

[smeyer418]

Under English common law(and this would apply also in the US except for Louisiana), an Innkeeper was absolutely liable for loses to its guests. This is why every state passed a law limiting such liability. I have no idea what it is in Norway.

 

http://www.ultrariskadvisors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/MHR_InnkeepersLiability.pdf