Tipping at "land" rates

[ducklite]

There are cruise lines that have folded the "tips" into the fare. The problems in doing so are far from insurmountable. To give you an example, Azamara did it a couple of years ago. They're part of the Royal Caribbean group...only two ships...if they have the ability and resources to do it, so do other cruise lines.

 

 

 

Also if my memory serves me correctly, various cruise lines have in the past, and perhaps even currently, eliminated tipping on itineraries primarily serving passengers who come from countries where tipping is not part of normal culture or practice, primarily Australia and the UK.

 

 

 

While BruceMuzz's post is not without a kernel of truth, it's chock full of hyperbole, because eliminating tipping has been done, is being done on some cruise lines, and the sky didn't fall (nor did fares increase 100%).

 

 

No tipping on the Paul Gauguin, except the spa, where it was at your discretion.

[njhorseman]

The real truth is that the mass market lines...even the more upscale large-ship lines, hold to the current "tipping/service charge" practice primarily because it allows them to advertise the lowest possible fares in order to attract passengers and because it can be used as a sword to be held over the heads of the crew. If they complain about their pay declining the cruise line can just point the finger back at the crew...putting the blame on the crew for their own poor service.

[Mytime2014]

The real truth is that the mass market lines...even the more upscale large-ship lines, hold to the current "tipping/service charge" practice primarily because it allows them to advertise the lowest possible fares in order to attract passengers and because it can be used as a sword to be held over the heads of the crew. If they complain about their pay declining the cruise line can just point the finger back at the crew...putting the blame on the crew for their own poor service.

 

 

so you discount the union negotiations information completely? Do you work at a lateral cruise line from that poster? Just wondering - since I don't know how cruise lines pay, not being employed or educated in the business practices.

[njhorseman]

so you discount the union negotiations information completely? Do you work at a lateral cruise line from that poster? Just wondering - since I don't know how cruise lines pay, not being employed or educated in the business practices.

 

If the cruise lines that already pay straight salary can negotiate with the unions, then so can the others.

 

I said there was a kernel of truth to what BruceMuzz said, but that his post was loaded with hyperbole. (Hyperbole is something he uses quite often, based on my years of reading his posts.)

 

I don't work for a cruise line. As a retired businessman, one the businesses I owned was a travel agency, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with the cruise industry.

 

In my days working in large corporations, one of my responsibilities for a time involved being part of the company's team that negotiated with our unions.

Edited May 15, 2014 by njhorseman

[BruceMuzz]

There are cruise lines that have folded the "tips" into the fare. The problems in doing so are far from insurmountable. To give you an example, Azamara did it a couple of years ago. They're part of the Royal Caribbean group. There is also no tipping required or expected on Seabourn, part of the Carnival group. No tipping is required for dining room and cabin staff on Crystal. If these lines have the ability and resources to do it, so do other cruise lines.

 

Also if my memory serves me correctly, various cruise lines have in the past, and perhaps even currently, eliminated tipping on itineraries primarily serving passengers who come from countries where tipping is not part of normal culture or practice, primarily Australia and the UK.

 

While BruceMuzz's post is not without a kernel of truth, it's chock full of hyperbole, because eliminating tipping has been done, is being done on some cruise lines, and the sky didn't fall (nor did fares increase 100%).

 

That is true. Eliminating tipping has been done on several cruise lines.

 

Holland America did it for many years. All their best staff quit and went to work for other companies where they could make more money. It nearly bankrupted the company, and forced them to sell to Carnival Corp just before they were about to go out of business. HAL are still recovering from that idea. They now have a standard daily hotel service charge for all passengers.

 

I worked for Seabourn for many years. They had a strict no tipping policy. The basic US$1,200 per person per day fare included the tips. The company has never made a cent of profit. They also have the highest crew turnover rate of any cruise line on earth. They recently (and very quietly) started allowing the staff to accept tips in order to hold on to them longer.

 

Silver Sea does not allow tipping. Although they are the most expensive of the luxury lines, they have never made a cent of profit. They built a new ship and then had to tie it up for 2 years because they couldn't book enough passengers to operate it.

 

Thompson Cruises has no tipping. Their crew is paid peanuts and provides the expected level of service that monkeys might give you. If your idea of cruising is like camping out at sea with lots of pasta and pizza to eat, this is the line for you.

 

P&O / Princess in Australia has added gratuities into their Australian fares on selected ships. Now they cannot fill those ships because the other companies are advertising lower fares. They are slowly pulling out of Australia and moving to Asia (with a daily service charge).

 

All the major cruise lines (about 225 cruise ships) that are making a profit now have a standard daily service charge.

This is not a coincidence.

Edited May 15, 2014 by BruceMuzz

[ducklite]

That is true. Eliminating tipping has been done on several cruise lines.

 

 

 

Holland America did it for many years. All their best staff quit and went to work for other companies where they could make more money. It nearly bankrupted the company, and forced them to sell to Carnival Corp just before they were about to go out of business. HAL are still recovering from that idea. They now have a standard daily hotel service charge for all passengers.

 

 

 

I worked for Seabourn for many years. They had a strict no tipping policy. The basic US$1,200 per person per day fare included the tips. The company has never made a cent of profit. They also have the highest crew turnover rate of any cruise line on earth. They recently (and very quietly) started allowing the staff to accept tips in order to hold on to them longer.

 

 

 

Silver Sea does not allow tipping. Although they are the most expensive of the luxury lines, they have never made a cent of profit. They built a new ship and then had to tie it up for 2 years because they couldn't book enough passengers to operate it.

 

 

 

Thompson Cruises has no tipping. Their crew is paid peanuts and provides the expected level of service that monkeys might give you. If your idea of cruising is like camping out at sea with lots of pasta and pizza to eat, this is the line for you.

 

 

 

P&O / Princess in Australia has added gratuities into their Australian fares on selected ships. Now they cannot fill those ships because the other companies are advertising lower fares. They are slowly pulling out of Australia and moving to Asia (with a daily service charge).

 

 

 

All the major cruise lines (about 225 cruise ships) that are making a profit now have a standard daily service charge.

 

This is not a coincidence.

 

 

How then, do you explain that many of the bartenders and waiters on the PG have been there since it was owned by Regent. Additionally, how do you explain that they are financially sound and generally sail at 90% capacity or higher?

[BruceMuzz]

How then, do you explain that many of the bartenders and waiters on the PG have been there since it was owned by Regent. Additionally, how do you explain that they are financially sound and generally sail at 90% capacity or higher?

 

The bartenders and waiters on PG are paid pretty well. That's the reason they stay. I worked for Regent (previously Radisson 7 Seas) and am very well versed on their financial situation. The last year they made a profit was 1996. I wouldn't call that financially sound.

The investment company that now owns them has been struggling for years to turn it around, but has been generally unsuccessful.

That ship enjoys high occupancy primarily because it has no competition in that area. If it had to compete with mainstream cruise lines, it would be an even greater financial failure.

[ducklite]

The bartenders and waiters on PG are paid pretty well. That's the reason they stay. I worked for Regent (previously Radisson 7 Seas) and am very well versed on their financial situation. The last year they made a profit was 1996. I wouldn't call that financially sound.

 

The investment company that now owns them has been struggling for years to turn it around, but has been generally unsuccessful.

 

That ship enjoys high occupancy primarily because it has no competition in that area. If it had to compete with mainstream cruise lines, it would be an even greater financial failure.

 

 

There are a couple of mainstream lines that sail that area. One was moored next to us in PPT while we were disembarking. Also Windstar has reinterred that market--which they wouldn't have dine if there wasn't money to be made. I hear just the opposite about Pacific Beachcomber's investment in the Paul Gauguin. They are quite profitable, and the cruise ship guests also bring an influx if cash into their FP IC properties.

[Solent Richard]

Bruce Muzz....you've opened my eyes to aspects of cruising, many times.

Would it not now be the time to explain to people in the official brochures, about the need for tipping? Better still, to simply add it to the price? The minor line, Thomson, does that, so it's not just the luxury lines who can manage this.

It seems that the majority will pay the designated tips up front, which must mean that they are having to cover for those who don't. I know several in the UK who think it's all a bit of a cheek, and will only literally "tip" rather than give the designated sum. Other nations, too, where tipping is not a big deal, don't understand this way of covering a person's salary.

Oh, I know the pros and cons, but I think for the crew's sake there needs to be change.

 

Thomson do it simply because its the only way they could collect it.

 

Let's face it, this is the cruise line that makes an additional charge for the use of the cabin safe.

 

You couldn't make it up.