Flame Away ~ POA review

[amc155]

Since most posters don't want to read my opinion of the Hawaiian islands and my post cruise stay, I won't take the time. Strange how a difference of opinion isn't welcome, to help formulate your own cruise research??:confused:

 

Please don't assume. Some of us would like to read your opinion of the islands and your post cruise stay. A lot of the time replies will only respond to the negative. That doesn't mean others don't want to read what else you have to say.

[chengkp75]

KP -- I am confused about your statement re crew being represented by unions. I thought all the crew had union representation and rules. Can you clear this up for me?

 

Generally, the deck and engine officers, as well as the deck and engine ratings belong to their respective national mariner's unions. However, for the most part, they are not "represented" by those unions in the sense that we in the US think about it. They have to belong to the union in order to get considered by the crewing agencies, but there is no union contract between the company and the unions. The officers are a little tighter, at least at NCL, since the majority of them are Norwegian, and the company pays benefits for them. The hotel staff is non-union, as they are not required to be merchant mariners.

 

The only real protection the hotel staff has is the recently enacted Maritime Labor Convention 2006 (MLC) or Manila Convention that states the rights of all persons working on ships.

 

On the POA, the deck and engine officers are represented by the MEBA, the deck and engine crew are represented by the SIU, and the hotel staff, below a certain supervisory level, are represented by the SEATU (Seafarers, Entertainers, and Associated Trades Union). Not sure of the cut off, but certainly hotel supervisors three stripes and above are considered company employees, and management.

[swedish weave]

Generally, the deck and engine officers, as well as the deck and engine ratings belong to their respective national mariner's unions. However, for the most part, they are not "represented" by those unions in the sense that we in the US think about it. They have to belong to the union in order to get considered by the crewing agencies, but there is no union contract between the company and the unions. The officers are a little tighter, at least at NCL, since the majority of them are Norwegian, and the company pays benefits for them. The hotel staff is non-union, as they are not required to be merchant mariners.

 

The only real protection the hotel staff has is the recently enacted Maritime Labor Convention 2006 (MLC) or Manila Convention that states the rights of all persons working on ships.

 

On the POA, the deck and engine officers are represented by the MEBA, the deck and engine crew are represented by the SIU, and the hotel staff, below a certain supervisory level, are represented by the SEATU (Seafarers, Entertainers, and Associated Trades Union). Not sure of the cut off, but certainly hotel supervisors three stripes and above are considered company employees, and management.

 

Thanks !!

[Ilovesailing]

The ports were ugly? You mean the port area or like most of Hawaii is ugly?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

What she is referring to is that a couple are located in industrial area's except for Kona, Maui, Kuaui.

 

I will agree with the op of Cagneys but thats been a problem for us for years.

As for the rest of their comments they must be really fussy because we have spent 8 weeks total on POA and two on The Jade when it was in Hawaii except for the the Jade the cruises were fine as were all the Specialty restaurants.

I also questioned the "we are seasoned cruiser's" comment with only 33 post in 1 year and most refering to NCL only.

[Susie51]

Interesting thread. Because of the price, I've never been interested in cruising on POA.

[greatlakesgirl]

Sorry you didn't like the POA.

 

Soooooo glad our experience was the exact opposite of yours, though! :)

[sprint180]

I would like to hear the rest of your review. I am well aware that two people can have two different experiences in the same place. I am also aware that not every cruise is great.

[SissasMomE]

The POA in general does not seem to get very good reviews. As for it being "documented" that NCL does not have good food ... you do realize how silly you sound, no?

Edited May 19, 2014 by SissasMomE

[TifffanyD]

I was on this cruise in January of 2012. With the exception of Kona (the tender port), all of the ports are industrial shipping terminals. This has nothing to do with NCL or the POA. Hawaii just doesn't have the cruise terminals like the Caribbean has.

 

Not sure where the OP normally eats, but we had no problem with the food on the ship. We ate in the buffet, both MDRs, and Jefferson's Bistro. Had an amazing room steward and we were only in a Balcony cabin.

 

Yeah I went on it too... I just think of the port as the entire city you are visiting not just the immediate pier area. So I wasn't sure which the OP didn't like.

 

We had mostly no problem with the food. The diner was gross but everything else was ok and some things even delicious.

[Cruise_More_Often]

chengkp75, thank you for providing so much inside information about the POA (and information about NCL in general on all the other threads you have posted in).

 

OP, I understand not everyone sees a cruise the same way. I haven't been on the POA, so I cannot comment on her. However, I would enjoy hearing about your port visits and your post-cruise stay.

[3Kittens]

:cool:Ok flame retardant suit on:cool:

chengpk75- very interesting info. Do you think unionization has helped or hindered the line? I'm curious as to "how" the other lines stave off the Unions?

Sissasmom- no I actually don't think I sound funny. The comments of NCL food is well documented.

 

As to my claim to being a seasoned cruiser, but have so few posts…..:D many of us change our "handle". Many of us are long time posters, and change our name for very good reasons:D While CC may frown on this, lets be honest, it is done, more than most would know.

 

Regarding the food…. I have read here many times, poster comments on the quality of the food. So much so (and no, we are anything but fussy), I called the cruise line prior to the cruise. Esp after reading about the catastrophe with deck 13 and bathroom flooding, and room configurations. I have never called a cruise company before, but considering the price of this cruise, I had my concerns. :(

 

I discussed with someone in the upper management, these posts on here. (They were aware of them by the way.) NCL clearly dropped the ball, when they released the new cabins without changing their literature and web site and the reports of the bad food reviews. She assured me that they were aware of this, and had recently changed menus.

 

We discussed how difficult it is to please all people, and that some are really just too unrealistic. I totally agree.

On a side note, the company did come clean with cruisers when their dissatisfaction was made known regarding the cabin issue. (I would expect that with any customer service).

Not only did I feel assured that my concerns were listened to, but that if I had any issues post cruise, I would have an ear to listen to them. (I have no intention of complaining to NCL. They fulfilled their contract as far as I'm concerned. As said we had a great time. I was only pointing out things I noticed.

 

First port was Maui. Lovely approach to pier. We rented a car here. Shuttle pick up at pier. We picked up car at airport location. Very easy. Car was great. Drove to Lahaina, and walked around Whalers Village. A little shopping here, and a short walk along the sea front. The drive was very easy and quite pretty. Relaxing. We had a Garmin just to be safe, but really didn't need it. Stopped at a few shops along the way. Parked the car in the parking lot at the pier, which is small and fills quickly. I don't think there were too many folks who couldn't find a spot?? It was an older cruise crowd, and I don't think too many rented cars.

Had lunch onboard, and back down to pier to board the tour bus (ship tour). Halekahala Sunset Tour. Reasonably priced. Everyone onboard was fit and no one held up the passengers. Bus driver narrated very well.

I will get flamed again here, but here goes…….

Some people found him a bit "too preachy". Inserting a little too many religious opinions/comments. Quite a few passengers were clearly ticked with this. I can fully understand why they felt this way, but…. he was so informative and descriptive, he actually made his stories come alive as we were driving. I overlooked the "tone" of his stories and just enjoyed the history and his personal experiences. We tipped him.

 

Yes, you do need a warmer jacket and probably jeans up there. It was cool, but the gloves I brought, we left in my pocket. Some had shorts on, and they were slightly cold. Take the time, and hike up to the top. You won't be sorry.

For me this was one of the highlights in my life. I loved it. Silence, beauty, and vast nothingness.

The bus ride was slightly nauseating for some. One young lad, had to relive his stomach at the 7,000 ft mark.

It is very cloudy enroute to the top, so makes photo taking slightly limited.

There was a restroom stop, and restrooms at the top. Air is slightly thinner, and if you have resp/cardiac issues you might notice breathing issues.

All such a contrast to the rest of lush Hawaii.

 

Could you do this drive without a bus tour?? Absolutely. The roads are paved, narrow and mostly thru small villages or subdivision type spots. They are well travelled. Vision would be obscured in cloudy/foggy areas, and definitely at night. The bus stops at about 7,000 ft mark to help people acclimatize to altitude.

 

We were back to ship by about 8:30 pm. Buffet was still open for us to grab food.

The second morning in Maui was use of the car once again. Bombing off in a convertible Mustang, with roof down. We headed south to Makena State Park. (left ship about 8am, and on beach before 9am).The beach was beautiful. Wide, warm, lovely sand. Very clean. Swan the morning away, and then slowly made our way back to Kahului, touring small villages and enclaves enroute. Rental car shuttle back to ship was fast and easy.

[swedish weave]

I can answer the unionization question. The POA is registered in the USA and all the others are foreign flagged.

 

The POA got a special exemption as a US ship so she could transport passengers between US ports without violating the PVSA. However, being considered a US ship, they must follow the USA labor laws.

 

The other ships must call on a foreign port if they transport passengers between US ports. That is why Princess goes to Ensenada on the LA or San Fran to Hawaii round trip cruises.

 

NCL used to have the Wind in Hawaii, but had to run approx 1000 miles to Fanning Island and back to comply with the PVSA because she wasn't a US flagged ship.

Edited May 19, 2014 by swedish weave

[chengkp75]

With regards to deck and engine departments, most ships worldwide have unionized officers and crew, or the longshoremen would not work the ships. However, as I've said, foreign maritime unions are basically "employment agencies" (you must belong to the union in order for the crewing agency to put your name in the pool for shipping jobs) that provide no benefits or protections to their members. So, the MEBA and SIU are really a standard part of US shipping, and have not really affected NCL one way or another. The SEATU union representing the hotel staff isn't a very strong union (it is a subsidiary union of SIU) and is only there because the SIU requires it.

 

To give an example of how weak the US maritime unions are, when the Pride of Aloha became the first US flag cruise ship for NCL, the SIU contract for the deck/engine crew had an overtime rate that was $0.35 an hour less than the straight time rate. Think any other union in the US would agree to that?

 

Because all the other ships and cruise lines are foreign flag, there is no pressure possible from the US, and given the international nature of the crew (being from many different countries on the same ship), there is no central union for them, and the countries of the flags of convenience don't care about unionization.

 

However, in order to attract US deck/engine officers and crew, NCL must pay comparable wages to other US shipping, so the officers cost about 75% more than European officers, and the crew costs about twice as much. The hotel staff must be paid to Hawaiian state minimum wage ($7.25, but will rise to $10.10 over the next 4 years) regardless of whether DSC is withheld or not. I had international engine crew whose overtime rate was $2.35/hour.

 

One major additional cost that NCL incurs with US crew is liability insurance. International crew rarely litigate over injuries or lost wages, while US crew will have their lawyer on speed dial.

[SissasMomE]

 

Sissasmom- no I actually don't think I sound funny. The comments of NCL food is well documented.

 

 

Great. Please provide said documentation. Links to articles will do.

 

As to my claim to being a seasoned cruiser, but have so few posts…..:D many of us change our "handle". Many of us are long time posters, and change our name for very good reasons:D While CC may frown on this, lets be honest, it is done, more than most would know.

 

It may be done by those who have been banned, but it's certainly not done on a whim by "many" posters.

 

 

Answers above. Edited - not liking the food is ok. Posting your opinion as fact isn't! I'd like to see the articles regarding the horrible food on NCL!

Edited May 19, 2014 by SissasMomE

[SissasMomE]

Huh?

 

I'm waiting for said documentation myself :rolleyes:

[chengkp75]

I can answer the unionization question. The POA is registered in the USA and all the others are foreign flagged.

 

The POA got a special exemption as a US ship so she could transport passengers between US ports without violating the PVSA. However, being considered a US ship, they must follow the USA labor laws.

 

The other ships must call on a foreign port if they transport passengers between US ports. That is why Princess goes to Ensenada on the LA or San Fran to Hawaii round trip cruises.

 

NCL used to have the Wind in Hawaii, but had to run approx 1000 miles to Fanning Island and back to comply with the PVSA because she wasn't a US flagged ship.

 

Fanning is 700 miles due south of the Big Island. The Star followed the Wind doing the Hawaii run, and when she lost one azipod, NCL paid the PVSA fine for every passenger for about 3 months of cruises until the Star could get to drydock. Towards the end of the Aloha's time in Hawaii, NCL sent us to Fanning to keep their agreement with the Republic of Kiribati to have a given number of ship visits per year to keep their exclusive rights to Fanning. Two and a half days each way for a barbeque lunch.

[CasinoCruzGirl]

Gentle reminder, I'm not complaining. Already stated I had a wonderful time.

I am only pointing out the facts as we saw them, for anyone who is researching this cruise.

As stated, I have NO issue swiping my cards. Actually, relatively effective way of bean counting.

Thank you chengkp75 for info about crew. I wouldn't want to get anyone into trouble, but did speak with a "union person". They explained how NCL skirts the green card worker vs the American worker. (bringing onboard more Asian workers from other ships who already have green cards) All done to improve service of course. And yes, you are very correct about North American workers vs others. We tend to take too much for granted re jobs. Sometimes it's best to be a little hungry. It' makes you appreciate more.

As to the ability to full fill your contract, you are correct. I hadn't thought of that.

As to the food… well, it is well documented that NCL has horrible food, so I'm not the first to suggest it was anything but horrible:D. I have sailed on 6 other lines, and only compared NCL with those. I did not find the others this unpalatable.

I was not complaining about Kona being ugly, only stating the obvious. If you want ugly…. most European ports are brutal.

Since most posters don't want to read my opinion of the Hawaiian islands and my post cruise stay, I won't take the time. Strange how a difference of opinion isn't welcome, to help formulate your own cruise research??:confused:

 

I don't know where you get "well documented" about the food. I was on the Breakaway in March. Loved tepanyaki and loved cagneys and LOVED the MDRs so let's document that.

[3Kittens]

Fanning is 700 miles due south of the Big Island. Two and a half days each way for a barbeque lunch.

 

Crazy:eek:

 

Interesting, and you are so correct about lawyers on speed dial.

So NCL Hawaiian cruise is not solely expensive, due to the Islands overall costs, but also due to crew unionized salaries?

[swedish weave]

Fanning is 700 miles due south of the Big Island. The Star followed the Wind doing the Hawaii run, and when she lost one azipod, NCL paid the PVSA fine for every passenger for about 3 months of cruises until the Star could get to drydock. Towards the end of the Aloha's time in Hawaii, NCL sent us to Fanning to keep their agreement with the Republic of Kiribati to have a given number of ship visits per year to keep their exclusive rights to Fanning. Two and a half days each way for a barbeque lunch.

 

Fanning was pretty nice. Very primitive. One of my favorite NCL employees was from Kiribati.

 

If my memory is anywhere close, it seems the Wind took almost two days each way, and the Star could make the trip in just over a day each way if everything was working right.

[Sauer-kraut]

Crazy:eek:

 

Interesting, and you are so correct about lawyers on speed dial.

So NCL Hawaiian cruise is not solely expensive, due to the Islands overall costs, but also due to crew unionized salaries?

 

Without those unionized wage minimums in place I doubt any U.S. citizen would consider taking a service position on a cruise line.

Heck.... fast food employees are striking to get a more decent wage, go figure. :D

[vols_159]

Dear OP,

 

You have to swipe to get on and off the ships so they know who the heck is on or off the ship... They don't do a head count or buddy check when its time for sailing.. THEY HAVE TO KNOW and thats via the swipe system..

[3Kittens]

Search easily gives references to food

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=42472296&postcount=1

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=40812066&postcount=26

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=40470810&postcount=1

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37338031&postcount=18

Enough on the food badgering.

 

chengpk72- I think you are the poster that explained the new requirement for the type of fuel and the system required to burn it. That was very informative, and certainly answers the reasons why all cruise costs will escalate. Guess it's a price we pay to be more "responsible".

Edited May 19, 2014 by 3Kittens

[PathfinderEss]

Thanks for your report, sorry you did not like your cruise. I think you might have your fact wrong on NCL having 'exclusive rights to Fanning.' I know many other cruise lines that go there.

[Cubechick]

Search easily gives references to food

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=42472296&postcount=1

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=40812066&postcount=26

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=40470810&postcount=1

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37338031&postcount=18

Enough on the food badgering.

 

chengpk72- I think you are the poster that explained the new requirement for the type of fuel and the system required to burn it. That was very informative, and certainly answers the reasons why all cruise costs will escalate. Guess it's a price we pay to be more "responsible".

 

Ummm, actually, none of these threads you have posted support your claim of "It is well documented that NCL has horrible food". :rolleyes:

 

I get (and respect) that you didn't like the food, but painting it with such a broad brush is inaccurate at best. ;)

 

We found our America cruise to be one of our best ever (crew included). I wish you had the same experience.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Cubechick

[3Kittens]

...

Edited May 20, 2014 by 3Kittens