Jones Act?

[bbeanpin]

I just called Carnival with the following question:

 

Can I stay off the ship between two ports (Kona and Hilo) to do an overnight excursion?

 

The representative said no it was a violation of the Jones Act.

 

Does that sound right or should I continue checking into this?

[Tapi]

I'm assuming that they are referring to the PVSA or Passenger Vessel Service Act.

 

What's the rest of your itinerary like? Getting off the ship at one port and rejoining at another splits your cruise into two segments. If one of the segments begins at one US port returning to another US port without visiting any foreign port, then you may be in violation of the PVSA, with some pretty hefty fines.

[CoconutJD]

I'm assuming that they are referring to the PVSA or Passenger Vessel Service Act.

 

What's the rest of your itinerary like? Getting off the ship at one port and rejoining at another splits your cruise into two segments. If one of the segments begins at one US port returning to another US port without visiting any foreign port, then you may be in violation of the PVSA, with some pretty hefty fines.

And the "foreign port" must be what is called a distant foreign port, not just any foreign port will work.

 

I imagine what the OP is considering would be a violation, I think the minimum fine is $300 (per person) and expect Carnival to pass those fines on to you.

[bbeanpin]

I'm assuming that they are referring to the PVSA or Passenger Vessel Service Act.

 

What's the rest of your itinerary like? Getting off the ship at one port and rejoining at another splits your cruise into two segments. If one of the segments begins at one US port returning to another US port without visiting any foreign port, then you may be in violation of the PVSA, with some pretty hefty fines.

 

It starts in Vancouver, but the two ports are Kona and Hilo on the the same island in Hawaii, then straight to Long Beach so I guess that won't work.

 

Bummer

 

Thanks for the help

[jonbgd]

I like the idea as both ports are on the same Island:confused:

 

FYI Kona is a tender port and Hilo they will dock.

If you plan on going on your own to VNP... Outside the fence, in Hilo, there are rental car shuttles to take you to the airport

[Eng23]

I'm assuming that they are referring to the PVSA or Passenger Vessel Service Act.

 

What's the rest of your itinerary like? Getting off the ship at one port and rejoining at another splits your cruise into two segments. If one of the segments begins at one US port returning to another US port without visiting any foreign port, then you may be in violation of the PVSA, with some pretty hefty fines.

I believe you are correct.

[goduckies05]

Or if they do a double in Cabo can I stay in Cabo for the night since it is the same port?

 

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[riffatsea]

Yes, folks have stayed over in Cabo.

Not sure why you'd want to do that but I suppose everyone travels differently.

[Tapi]

Or if they do a double in Cabo can I stay in Cabo for the night since it is the same port?

 

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Yes, you can without violating any maritime laws. However, the problem with Cabo is that it's a tender port, meaning that if you choose to spend the night, and the following day the sea conditions are not conducive to tendering, the 2nd day visit will be canceled. All of a sudden you'll find yourself stranded in Cabo with no ship to get back home on.

 

 

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[nukester]

I just called Carnival with the following question:

 

Can I stay off the ship between two ports (Kona and Hilo) to do an overnight excursion?

 

The representative said no it was a violation of the Jones Act.

 

Does that sound right or should I continue checking into this?

 

its USA.ITS USA.........NO VILOATION

[shof515]

its USA.ITS USA.........NO VILOATION

The ship is registered to a foreign country. carnival has no Us ships

 

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[Shmoo here]

its USA.ITS USA.........NO VILOATION

 

It is a violation, as pointed out by Tapi.

 

Although, it's not the Jones Act (that refers to cargo), it's the Passenger Vessel Services Act (pertaining to transportation of passengers). Both laws basically say the same thing, but one's about cargo, and one's about passengers.

 

The law is that a foreign-flagged ship (as most cruise ships are) cannot transport passengers from one US port to a different US port (in this case from a Hawaiian port to Los Angeles) without a stop in a distant foreign port. A distant foreign port is defined as any port NOT "North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2).".

[WindsorFred]

Yes, you can without violating any maritime laws. However, the problem with Cabo is that it's a tender port, meaning that if you choose to spend the night, and the following day the sea conditions are not conducive to tendering, the 2nd day visit will be canceled. All of a sudden you'll find yourself stranded in Cabo with no ship to get back home on.

 

 

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Same with Kona, we were unable to tender in last January.

[comett]

What would happen if you returned to the port too late and missed the ship?

[CruisinKibble]

What would happen if you returned to the port too late and missed the ship?

 

You would be responsible for your own travel arrangements.

[Shmoo here]

What would happen if you returned to the port too late and missed the ship?

 

You would be responsible for your own travel arrangements.

 

Legally, you must make your own arrangements to meet up with the ship in the next legal port.

 

However, in the context of the original question, if a passenger were to get off in, say, Kona and attempt to reboard the ship in Hilo, it wouldn't be allowed, as a trip from Hilo to Los Angeles violates the PVSA. The passenger would have to get themselves to Los Angeles.

 

If (that's a big "if") the passenger were allowed to reboard the ship in Hilo, and then travel to Los Angeles to disembark, then the ship would be assessed a fine of $300 per person who violated the PVSA. This fine is typically passed onto the passenger via their onboard account.

[bbeanpin]

As cool of an excursion as it was I just don't want the headache or expense. As nice as cruising is sometimes you just find stuff that doesn't work with it.

 

 

 

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[Smiling Cruiser]

I'm confused. Wouldn't he be traveling from Kona to LA or Hilo to Kona to LA - all US ports. He did say Hawaii. Did I miss something? He leaves from Vancouver , goes to several US ports ending in LA. I understand the act just not sure where it fits in this scenario.

 

 

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[Smiling Cruiser]

Does it go to Ensenada before Long Beach? If so, then I understand the issue.

 

 

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[bbeanpin]

The problem is getting off at Kona splits the cruise into two segments with the second "cruise" being a US port (Hilo) to another US port (Long Beach) without a foreign port. I think I am saying it right.

 

 

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[Shmoo here]

The problem is getting off at Kona splits the cruise into two segments with the second "cruise" being a US port (Hilo) to another US port (Long Beach) without a foreign port. I think I am saying it right.

 

 

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Close. A "distant" foreign port is required on a cruise from one US port to a different US port. There are no distant foreign ports along (or close to) the line of travel from Hawaii to Los Angeles.

[mosiegirl]

It is a violation, as pointed out by Tapi.

 

Although, it's not the Jones Act (that refers to cargo), it's the Passenger Vessel Services Act (pertaining to transportation of passengers). Both laws basically say the same thing, but one's about cargo, and one's about passengers.

 

The law is that a foreign-flagged ship (as most cruise ships are) cannot transport passengers from one US port to a different US port (in this case from a Hawaiian port to Los Angeles) without a stop in a distant foreign port. A distant foreign port is defined as any port NOT "North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2).".

exactly... you can't take a cruise from Miami to New York, or vice versa.. without a foreign stop - ie Bermuda, etc..

[Shmoo here]

exactly... you can't take a cruise from Miami to New York, or vice versa.. without a foreign stop - ie Bermuda, etc..

 

Not just "a foreign port" - a DISTANT foreign port. Bermuda is not a distant foreign port.

 

According to the PVSA , a distant foreign port is defined as any port NOT "in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2).".

[k2excursion]

I'm confused. Wouldn't he be traveling from Kona to LA or Hilo to Kona to LA - all US ports. He did say Hawaii. Did I miss something? He leaves from Vancouver , goes to several US ports ending in LA. I understand the act just not sure where it fits in this scenario.

 

 

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As one other poster pointed out, if you were to stay off the ship in Kona & then reboard in Hilo the next day, it will be viewed as 2 separate cruises and not just 1 in the eyes of the law. The first cruise started in Vancouver & ended in Kona. No problem there, as that began in a foreign port. The problem is with the 2nd cruise, beginning in one US port (Hilo) and ending in a different US port, without visiting a distant foreign port. This law is very stupid and serves no real purpose in today's world, but it's on the books & will be enforced.

 

This law (not called the Jones Act) does not apply to US territories such as Puerto Rico & the US Virgin Islands. That's why my upcoming cruise, starting in San Juan & ending in Miami with no distant foreign ports is okay. However, anyone taking the Splendor from New York down to San Juan before our sailing will not be allowed to take our cruise following it. Because in the eyes of the law, that would be only 1 cruise (not 2), starting in New York & ending in Miami with no DISTANT foreign ports. Not allowed.

[bbeanpin]

What I find funny is what the definition of DISTANT FOREIGN port not in North America appears to be.

 

Vancouver is about 35 miles from the boarder

 

Ensenada is about 80 miles from the boarder

 

And I know I went to public school but I think they are both in NORTH AMERICA right.

 

Old, outdated law but kind of funny.