Is it just me??? Tipping??

[yogimax]

Why can't people just tip or tip NOT what they want... What is it anyone else's business what somone does on their own vacation....

 

No flames Newfie, just a thought. In essence, those of us who tip are subsidizing the non-tippers. On a ship with 3000 passengers, statistics will dictate how much tip money is received on each cruise. On a seven night cruise, for example, the suggested tips would be $10 x 7 days x 3000 passengers or $210,000. If the cruise lines see that the tips are significantly below that level, there is an incentive to either increase the suggested tip amount or raise the price of the cruise for everyone to cover the shortfall. The reason is that the cruise lines have to provide a certain minimum payment (salary plus tips) to their staff in order to insure continued staffing levels. In essence, those who do not tip, or tip inadequately, not only are stiffing the wait staff but also causing cruise prices to rise. I'm sorry, but I don't want to pay more because some people are cheap!

[KruznKel]

No flames Newfie, just a thought. In essence, those of us who tip are subsidizing the non-tippers. On a ship with 3000 passengers, statistics will dictate how much tip money is received on each cruise. On a seven night cruise, for example, the suggested tips would be $10 x 7 days x 3000 passengers or $210,000. If the cruise lines see that the tips are significantly below that level, there is an incentive to either increase the suggested tip amount or raise the price of the cruise for everyone to cover the shortfall. The reason is that the cruise lines have to provide a certain minimum payment (salary plus tips) to their staff in order to insure continued staffing levels. In essence, those who do not tip, or tip inadequately, not only are stiffing the wait staff but also causing cruise prices to rise. I'm sorry, but I don't want to pay more because some people are cheap!

 

Well maybe some cannot afford to tip as you or others do.. doesn't mean they are cheap.. just means they do not have the means to do as such.. as for removing tips from the S&S card I do not agree with.. but tipping above and beyond that I agree with anyone who does or doesn't want too.. (An anology is I hate paying the insurance rates I do because?? Everything comes around to if only people would doesn't it???) If in fact everyone was like yourself or myself would make for a really interesting or boring world I would think.. nobody is alike and that is what I like about being in this world... I do not like my gas prices going up because of the war.. but hmmmmmmmm do I stop buying it.. if I cannot afford to buy gas I will take the bus.. so If you find that others scalping their tips and you are paying for them.. maybe consider a different vacation... things will never change.. NObody is cheap most live within their means!

[yogimax]

Well maybe some cannot afford to tip as you or others do.. doesn't mean they are cheap.. just means they do not have the means to do as such..!

 

I'm sorry, but if a person cannot afford $10/day for tips, how in the world did they afford $1000 or more for the cruise?

[KruznKel]

I'm sorry, but if a person cannot afford $10/day for tips, how in the world did they afford $1000 or more for the cruise?

 

Same way most do save... or not.. the way people cruise has no issue in the way tips are handled that is decided on the person they are.. .. and again I said I do not agree with removing the S&S you removed that from my quote.. but if they decide to do that.. who are you to tell them not to... if they deem in their own mind that the service wasn't deserved??? (I do not see how they would see the service is not there).. but there are all kinds of people in this world.. they may be few and far between but they are there.. so get used to it.. and learn to live with others that you obviously would not live with in your own personal world..

[yogimax]

I said I do not agree with removing the S&S you removed that from my quote.. but if they decide to do that.. who are you to tell them not to... .

 

First, I'm glad we have common ground and can agree that the tips should not be removed from he Sign and Sail card. Those who do, however, are not in a state of poverty. I also agree that poor service should not be rewarded. On the other hand, many of those who do not tip are not making a statement about poor service. They are simply cheap... cheap...cheap... For example, the one poster (I'm not sure if it was in this thread or another) who took pride in that they used the money they "saved" from tipping the dining room staff to eat in Portofinos. I also reiterate my contention that the deadbeats cause the rest of us to pay higher cruise prices, while at the same time hurting the workers, many of whom are trying to improve the quality of life for themselves and their families.

[KruznKel]

First, I'm glad we have common ground and can agree that the tips should not be removed from he Sign and Sail card. Those who do, however, are not in a state of poverty. I also agree that poor service should not be rewarded. On the other hand, many of those who do not tip are not making a statement about poor service. They are simply cheap... cheap...cheap... For example, the one poster (I'm not sure if it was in this thread or another) who took pride in that they used the money they "saved" from tipping the dining room staff to eat in Portofinos. I also reiterate my contention that the deadbeats cause the rest of us to pay higher cruise prices, while at the same time hurting the workers, many of whom are trying to improve the quality of life for themselves and their families.

 

I do not call people by any name for their choices there are way too many names that could fly around for all of us.. if you find this person cheap so be it.. let it go.. there will be the next one and so on and so on.. if you continue to include these people or experiences in your vacation(hoping it is not yourself) then you are the one that needs to look at your vacations.. are you just there watching what others shell out or are you really there to have fun with the family and enjoy?? As for the OP who cares what they spent their tip money on.. did they have a good vacation?? will they cruise again probably not! and if they do maybe then they will realize what they did after reading these boards!!! Everyone here rocks for great advice!!! and sometimes not but anyhoo it all works for everyone!!!:D

[michele67]

3000 passengers x $1000 each = $3,000,000 week x 52 =$156,000,000 year for ONE SHIP!!!!!!!!!!

 

I think the cruise line can afford to pay the wait staff more...

 

What I choose to tip is my business and no one elses.......amazing how judgemental and rude people are on this thread...I thought this site was for fun

[newmexicoNita]

And, another thing! :D If we're all up in arms about not tipping at buffets, let me ask a question. Has anyone ever tipped a dancer, singer or comedian on a cruise? Having worked as an actor in a dinner theatre, the wait staff made about THREE times what the actors did and we never got a single, solitary tip. The ASSUMPTION was that we made more than the wait staff. So, THAT'S my question! Is it just our "perception" that certain people make less, therefore, we should tip them? Just really playing devil's advocate here!:D

The dancers are on salary as I understand it; I don't know about others, but no, I have never even thought about tipping the dancers or singers. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

Why can't people just tip or tip NOT what they want... What is it anyone else's business what somone does on their own vacation.... Unless you are the specific person paying for their waiter/waitress/steward/bartenders salary.. if not then do as you will... JM 2cents... Flame away I am waiting:D

you have a point,but when someone comes on the boards with statements about any issue it is open season for dicussion.

[glrounds]

Maybe that will be the new trend in the Lido buffet soon. Farming it out to fast food chains! After all RCI has Rockets.

 

Actually I think they have already started with pay for ice cream, and pastry and coffee bars.

 

My "long term" guess is they'll eventually work toward eliminating the standard dining room altogether. I believe there has been an incredible increase in the quality and selection of the different eating venues in the Lido buffets (Great Reubens at the sandwich venue, made-to-order omelettes for breakfast, fantastic salad bar, fish'n'chips, and many and varied main selections)

 

I think they'll keep improving the Lido buffet and add more pay-for-"5 Star" type upscale dining restaurants.

 

As it is now, I eat 2/3s of my meals in the Lido buffet anyhow (great views, sit anywhere, eat outside if you wish, smoke with that ending cup of coffee :D , etc.) and when I get screwy/obnoxious/drunk/bickering/complaining (you pick) tablemates I end up eating all but the formal dinners in the buffet anyhow.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the change-over to auto tipping, but IMHO the dining service (not the food) has gone downhill on Carnival (and probably all cruiselines in general) in the last several years. I think the whole experience has become very informal and laid back and not the great "treat" it used to be.

 

Cruising 20 years ago has probably spoiled me. :(

[SolitaryPhoenix]

wow...people get hot under the collar on this issue...let me throw my 2 cents in...:D

 

The thing that keeps getting brought up over and over is how hard the wait staff works for this tip, etc...I'm not disputing that but...........what about the fact that I worked EQUALLY as hard for the money to PAY the tip...does that not factor in...:confused: ...some of us actually have to save money all year to afford to take our families on a cruise...and do I expect superior service?....yes, I do...

I have not personally had bad service on a cruise, but, I would adjust the tip if I did...just as if I went out to eat at home...I want someone to wait on me.

I bust my a$$ all year long at my job..and when I go on vacation I want to be pampered!!:p

 

Exactly. :D

 

My family and I take one "big" vacation a year, because that's what I can afford. I work hard for the money, and you better treat me right! I'm not looking for anyone to bow and scrape, and certainly not for a servant, but service? Yup! If I think service is great, and I have the money to do it, I'll definitely tip more. I'm not a cheapskate, just not in a position to throw my cash around if it's not really warranted, and frankly, the suggestion that someone who doesn't mindlessly tip is looking to ditch tipping altogether is ridiculous. If I think a particular person has done a continuously pathetic, sub-standard job throughout the cruise, will I remove the tip or give them less than the suggested [and "suggested" being the operative word here, btw] tip? Yes, because, like it or not, to tip is 'to give a gratuity", and a gratuity is 'a gift of money for services rendered'. Right from Webster's. ;) Treat me right, get the same back.

[peterv]

No flames Newfie, just a thought. In essence, those of us who tip are subsidizing the non-tippers. On a ship with 3000 passengers, statistics will dictate how much tip money is received on each cruise. On a seven night cruise, for example, the suggested tips would be $10 x 7 days x 3000 passengers or $210,000. If the cruise lines see that the tips are significantly below that level, there is an incentive to either increase the suggested tip amount or raise the price of the cruise for everyone to cover the shortfall. The reason is that the cruise lines have to provide a certain minimum payment (salary plus tips) to their staff in order to insure continued staffing levels. In essence, those who do not tip, or tip inadequately, not only are stiffing the wait staff but also causing cruise prices to rise. I'm sorry, but I don't want to pay more because some people are cheap!

 

I don't know what dream world you are living in, but you do not subsidise the non-tippers in any way shape or form, that statement is just ludicrous.

 

A tip is optional, it is NOT required, and there is NO minimum amount the same way that there is NO maximum amount. You are not stealing from someone by not tipping, because it is not theirs until you give it to them. If you don't give it, they have lost nothing.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[yogimax]

I don't know what dream world you are living in, but you do not subsidise the non-tippers in any way shape or form, that statement is just ludicrous.

 

 

The point was quite basic - The cruise lines have to pay compensation (salary plus tips) that will attract a qualified work force. It's simple mathematics... if tip income is down, salaries must go up. If salaries go up, the price of a ticket will go up. Thus, the result is that those who tip will have to pay more for a ticket because of the direct actions of non-tippers.

 

Best,

Yogi

[Magic City Cruiser]

That makes sense, Yogi. However, I would much rather pay a higher ticket price than have to worry about who to tip and how much. Then, if an employee dosn't do his job, it's not MY decision to decide how much or how little to "compensate" him! And, the employees won't have to deal with "cheap" people and will be justly paid in the amount that was agreed upon when they were hired. And, the employer can fire him and replace him if he dosn't do a good job and we'll all be happy!

 

Donna

[yogimax]

That makes sense, Yogi. However, I would much rather pay a higher ticket price than have to worry about who to tip and how much. Then, if an employee dosn't do his job, it's not MY decision to decide how much or how little to "compensate" him! And, the employees won't have to deal with "cheap" people and will be justly paid in the amount that was agreed upon when they were hired. And, the employer can fire him and replace him if he dosn't do a good job and we'll all be happy!

 

Donna

 

I totally agree with you, Donna. I would also prefer to have $10/day added to the price of the ticket and not worry about tips. Some would argue that it would result in poor service. Not so, since passengers would still be filling out evaluation forms for the staff and a person's career would depend on the quality of service they rendered.

 

Yogi

[PrincessJen]

I totally agree with you, Donna. I would also prefer to have $10/day added to the price of the ticket and not worry about tips. Some would argue that it would result in poor service. Not so, since passengers would still be filling out evaluation forms for the staff and a person's career would depend on the quality of service they rendered.

 

Yogi

 

I agree with you 100%.:D

[Starz723]

I just returned from my cruise on the Carnival Legend, 7/24 sailing and I had excellent service across the board. They work their tails off. I wouldnt want their job, would you? And if you did, you would be dependent on the tips as a big part of your salary.

 

Im sure Carnival has adopted this system so that the workers dont get "stiffed" or undertipped. Have you ever worked in the service industry? I do now as an entertainer. I get paid for my jobs, but some of them are in public places and we (the band) welcome tips because we take a lesser salary. There are alot of cheap ppl out there, let me tell you.

 

Alot of restaurants in NYC add the tip as well to your bill. Why? because ppl dont tip or dont tip at least 15%. Alot of ppl from Europe dont tip at all. :eek: Its just their custom.

 

We always have the option of amending the tips if we feel the service was not to par. $10 bucks a day split between the servers and room steward is not alot. Thats my opinion.

[1cruisedoggie]

Peter, I'm curious about the "pay for" ice cream. I've seen the specialty dessert/coffee bars, but not ice cream.:confused: Is this some type special ice cream? Which ships?

 

 

Last year we were on RCI and they had Ben and Jerry's ice cream which you had to pay extra for

[Leo Jay]

I personally don't think tippers end up 'subsidizing' non-tippers. I doubt the auto-tipping was put in place to thwart "cheapskates"; those people would simply have the tips removed regardless. If the cruiselines really did feel that the on-board staff were being deliberately 'stiffed' by cheapies, I can't imagine why they wouldn't simply add an automatic service charge to rectify the situation. So it seems more likely to me that the auto-tipping was put in simply because many people were naive as to whether tips should be proffered, to whom they should be proffered, and an appropriate amount. Yes, there are those who scoff at the suggestion that a well-intended person might be so naive, but the variety of posts about this same topic is evidence enough for me that there's no small number of reasonably intelligent people who are simply novices to 'cruise culture'. I'm a pretty savvy, reasonably intelligent, not-untravelled individual, and I had no clue about such things with regard to cruising until a few weeks ago.

[peterv]

The point was quite basic - The cruise lines have to pay compensation (salary plus tips) that will attract a qualified work force. It's simple mathematics... if tip income is down, salaries must go up. If salaries go up, the price of a ticket will go up. Thus, the result is that those who tip will have to pay more for a ticket because of the direct actions of non-tippers.

 

Best,

Yogi

 

It may be simple mathematics to you, but I doubt that the number of people who do not tip varies significantly by ship. The crew is hired with the expectation that a major portion of their salary will be made up from passengers tipping them. If the crew believes that they will receive 100% of the tip amount from 100% of their assigned passengers they also are living in a dreamworld. If they figure to get 50% to 75% they are doing well, and at that rate are earning far more than they would in their home countries. If this wasn't the case, they would not continue to do it!

 

Since the entire tip amount equates to $10 per person per day, even if no one tipped, the fare increase would amount to $70 per person. I doubt that anyone would even notice that the fares have risen by that. Especially when the fares vary so much cruise to cruise and category to category. So, even if they do this how has this changed the amount you have paid? How has the non-tipper affected you in any way?

 

Besides, if the cruiselines cared so much about the crew they wouldn't hire them at such low wages in the first place, they would add the $10 and state that tipping is not required.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Magic City Cruiser]

I agree, Peter. And, frankly, I think the people that overtip probably make up for the undertippers in a Cruise type situation. As far as how hard they work and "would I want to do that job", well, hey...like I have said ad nauseum on this thread....been there, done that! I HAVE been a waitress and I HAVE cleaned houses! And, more than likely, the workers do this job, JUST like me, because it does pay so well compared to other jobs and they like the tipping because they make more due to tipping than in many other jobs they might be qualified for. I pay the Carnival tips without question. I actually consider it a part of the Cruise cost and won't even consider increasing or decreasing. If I receive what I consider bad service, I'll report it and let the employer decide whether to compensate ME for bad service or take it away from the person I feel is giving bad service. But, with that said, I'll still paid the 10.00 per person per day and let the EMPLOYER deal with it! But, again, what bugs me is the perception of how little cruise employees make!! No one has YET to find out actually how much they make BEFORE the tip factor and AFTER tipping. If we ever found out, I bet people would start tipping those comedians and dancers because I am fairly certain they don't make much more than the service folks!:D

Donna

[4yanx]

I do see where folks are coming from with respect to wanting to be treated right. However, the fact that someone works hard for their money has nothing whatsoever to do with how one should or should not be treated by members of the crew on a cruise. I’ve read things within several of these threads that are very similar, even going so far as to say “I expect to be pampered” because I worked hard to save for my cruise. The only operative factor is that one has paid for their ticket to sail and the crew members are SERVICE staff on that sailing. Whether a person worked hard to earn the vacation money or won it in the lottery is totally irrelevant. If people are bitter over having to work hard for their money and don’t feel justly compensated in some way – this is something to be taken up with one’s boss.

 

Now, everyone knows, whether they will admit to it or not, that most service workers of the type referenced in this thread (e.g. waiters, stewards, etc.) make most of their “wages” through tips. That’s just the way it is, at least in the US. The same is true for wait staff in restaurants, taxi drivers, bell men, porters at airports, etc. The idea that someone would not know this, regardless of whether they actually agree with said system or not, is hard to fathom. And, using the same “hard work” logic, a cruise ship worker might be even more justified in thinking, “I work hard for these people when they come aboard and they better treat me right”. Let’s face it, in large part, the low-wage/tip-dependent system greatly favors the employer. They get by with less wages (read bottom-line) and the staff is “left to their own devices” with respect to making more. If they provide good service and get good tips, all is well. If they provide good service and get stiffed, only the employee suffers – the employer won’t be stepping in with a supplement. In this sense, those people here that “work hard for their money” might have a stronger allegiance with these service folks than they might appreciate. If the staff provides bad service, the employer might suffer a bit initially but they will soon find someone else to fill that job. The customer will be PO’d at the staff member and probably not, in this case, the cruise line, itself. Especially in cases where someone “higher up” apologizes for the bad service and assures the customer that it isn’t “the company way”, the customer will likely return.

 

Given the system in place, and given that everyone knows the system, I still believe that one should EXPECT and COUNT ON tipping the “suggested” rate for normal, satisfactory service. Of course, what some people consider normal and satisfactory can vary widely. But, for instance, if a waiter greets you in a friendly way, services you promptly and efficiently, and is respectful and gracious, he/she deserves the “standard” tip. If they go out of their way to fill special requests, are particularly attentive to needs, remember every nuance of your personal tastes and whims, a bit more might be in order. And, forgetting to fill the water glass once, making a small mistake on an order, or not treating someone like the Sultan of Brunei and Queen of Sheba at every seating, does not justify withholding the tip.

 

Perhaps including the tip in the cost of the cruise IS a good idea, provided a WORKABLE formula could be developed that included rigorous evaluation of service provision and compensation for those not receiving good service. Sure, a worker could be let go who did not do their job, but that doesn’t directly address the customer’s present dissatisfaction. It would seem that the growing practice of charging upfront for tips is partially in response to those who stiff, and partially in response to those who suffer “sticker shock” when the full extent of their cruise cost becomes apparent. I’d wager the following happens a good deal, especially for cruises where cost is a primary determinant of choice (I know it has happened to me a time or two and I’ve chosen something else for that trip). A family is planning a trip and they see a very attractive discounted book price for the cruise – let’s say $400 pp for a family of four. Then, maybe there’s air fare – say $200 each. Then, there’s spending money – let’s just say another $500. OK, we’re up to $2900 and that is about what we can afford, and maybe have a bit more for us to spend – WHEEE! WE’RE TAKING A CRUISE!!! Wait a minute, there’s port charges? – well I guess we have to pay those. There’s transportation to and from the ship? – can’t get out of paying that. Insurance? – we’ll pass and take our chances. Tips?…….well they are SUGGESTED, nobody’s gonna MAKE me pay those and, so, if it looks like we’ll have enough we can give them a little something. Now, I’m NOT saying that anyone reading this would follow this thought process, but I bet you know someone that would.

 

Finally, there is the issue of getting what one pays for. Not to pick on Carnival, but they are widely known as one of the less costly cruise lines. RCL to a great extent, as well. Please understand that I DO NOT feel, in any way, that the cost of any ticket does not entitle a person to GOOD service. That should go without saying and I, too, feel that poor service should suffer the consequence of a poor tip. However, the refinement of service may not always be what one might expect or envision, particularly depending on one’s perceptions of cruises, possibly based on romantic notions specific only to a selected cruise line or three. The staff selection, training, wages, etc. is certainly different on NCL than, say, Seabourn. And, many folks want it both ways. I have read many, many threads on here both before and after becoming a member. I have seen the SAME folks say in one breath that they should be allowed to wear whatever they want on formal night because, “THIS IS CARNIVAL”, and in the next breath basically say, “I’d better be pampered with world-class service or I will not leave a tip.” With all due respect, it’s like saying, “I’ll pay Applebee prices, dress like I’m going to TGI Friday’s, but expect service like they get at the Ritz.”

 

End-o-rant. Flames and anchors aweigh!

[PrincessJen]

I personally don't think tippers end up 'subsidizing' non-tippers. I doubt the auto-tipping was put in place to thwart "cheapskates"; those people would simply have the tips removed regardless. If the cruiselines really did feel that the on-board staff were being deliberately 'stiffed' by cheapies, I can't imagine why they wouldn't simply add an automatic service charge to rectify the situation. So it seems more likely to me that the auto-tipping was put in simply because many people were naive as to whether tips should be proffered, to whom they should be proffered, and an appropriate amount. Yes, there are those who scoff at the suggestion that a well-intended person might be so naive, but the variety of posts about this same topic is evidence enough for me that there's no small number of reasonably intelligent people who are simply novices to 'cruise culture'. I'm a pretty savvy, reasonably intelligent, not-untravelled individual, and I had no clue about such things with regard to cruising until a few weeks ago.

 

At the risk of being flamed, I have to put this out there. As a new cruiser, if I had not found these boards before I went on my cruise and the automatic gratuity was not in place it wouldn't have even crossed my mind. I know it's naive considering I would tip if I went out to a restaurant at home, however for some reason I just wouldn't have thought of it. I would have thought that they were on a salary and it was included in my cruise fare. I apologize for that. ON THE OTHER HAND THOUGH, based on veteran cruisers stating that people skipped out on the night that tipping was usually done in the dining room, I am inclined to believe that this policy was put in place to avoid them getting stiffed. As stated above though it would just make it easier to add it to the cruise fair and pay them a living salary.

[geoherb]

I haven't sailed on Carnival since autotipping came into being. I have sailed on Princess a few times. I like the autotipping. So far, we've never had to cut back on the amounts. Most of the time, we've tipped the waiters and cabin stewards who have given us excellent service a little bit more on the last night.

 

When we truly had a bad waiter on a Royal Caribbean cruise, one of the men at our table spoke to the maitre d'. We had a different waiter (an excellent one) for the rest of our cruise. I don't think it's fair to the passenger to suffer all week with bad service--and ultimately not fair to the waiter to be stiffed.

[jus4shw]

Hello all, I am getting into this thread a little late, but here is my point of view. TIP- To Insure Prompt Service. I have been in the service industry in one for or another for 20 years. I am a firm believer in tipping. This is my first cruise, so I am not sure about everything, but I plan on bringing an extra 100.00 to tip the right people on my first day. I am doing this because I want the best experence I can. I know tipping these folks up front will help this happen.

 

For those of you that think you should not tip ina buffet. (Once again I have never been on a cruise) But if you have someone re-filling your drinks, clearing your plates, and making sure everything is tasty- 10%. As a waiter in a resturant that has all you can eat buffets, you work harder on those tabels than you do on normal service.

 

Just so you know, I am not sure if this is how it is on a cruise, but in the restrants I work you get paid 2.13 an hour. They take taxes out of that, and you have to declare 10% of your net sales at the end of the night. Meaning.....if a server sells $1,000 worth of food, Uncle Sam is going to asume that server made 100.00 in tips AND THEY TAX IT. So when your pay check comes it is for $0.00 and at the end of the year you usually end up owing money.

 

The formula is = IF YOU WANT GREAT SERVICE TIP UP FRONT.......IF YOU WANT FAIR SERVICE JUST TIP WHAT CCR TELLS YOU TOO.