MSC prejudice against solo travellers - morally repugnant

[earn]

While I am here, I thought I might get my recent holiday tale of woe off my chest. Not cruise related and very boring, so feel free to stop reading.

 

Booked a good all inc deal with Thomsons to Puerto Pollensa on Saturday. Not bad at £299 per person during the October school holidays. Decided we would like some company and before telling another couple of friends checked the price on Sunday. By then it was £220!! I was outwith my 24 hr grace and so far Thomsons won't budge. At least the other two families got a fantastic deal.

 

I am smarting slightly, but have decided that if it was a good deal on Saturday, it is still a good deal now, and you win some and lose some. £320 is not insignificant though.

[anniegb]

I can't fathom why they would not take bookings for solo travellers, but I know that when I go on a cruise with my husband and two sons we spend very little. We just don't drink that much and don't spend more than a few pounds on the slots. My spending profile would be the same, whether I was single or had no kids. I hope they don't in invent an algorithm that uses shared holiday company data to work out how much you spend on average and adjust your basic holiday cost accordingly! Then we would be done for. :p

 

According to another cruise line's model, it is the number of bodies in a cabin which is the largest revenue and profit stream.

 

I agree there is a demand for 5 or 6 bedded cabins.

 

Annie

[anniegb]

While I am here, I thought I might get my recent holiday tale of woe off my chest. Not cruise related and very boring, so feel free to stop reading.

 

Booked a good all inc deal with Thomsons to Puerto Pollensa on Saturday. Not bad at £299 per person during the October school holidays. Decided we would like some company and before telling another couple of friends checked the price on Sunday. By then it was £220!! I was outwith my 24 hr grace and so far Thomsons won't budge. At least the other two families got a fantastic deal.

 

I am smarting slightly, but have decided that if it was a good deal on Saturday, it is still a good deal now, and you win some and lose some. £320 is not insignificant though.

 

That is so frustrating.

 

It is also worth noting that Thomsons have many hotels where they will not accept a solo booking and when they do so the solo supplement can be hefty.

 

MSC are not alone.

 

Enjoy Puerto Pollensa - I love it.

 

Annie

[earn]

I expect that is the model, but I think it is flawed. I think solo travellers are much more likely to spend money than people with kids. Our teenage sons probably eat three times the average solo cruisers fill, and other than a few cokes spend nothing. If we had them in our cabin we would have paid nothing either!

 

Royal Caribbean have family cabins for up to 6 at most levels on most ships. I have never seen them available to book on line, but have been in them on cabin crawls. They are not classed as suites.

[anniegb]

I expect that is the model, but I think it is flawed. I think solo travellers are much more likely to spend money than people with kids. Our teenage sons probably eat three times the average solo cruisers fill, and other than a few cokes spend nothing. If we had them in our cabin we would have paid nothing either!

 

Royal Caribbean have family cabins for up to 6 at most levels on most ships. I have never seen them available to book on line, but have been in them on cabin crawls. They are not classed as suites.

 

The model I quoted is the RCI model and I do believe they charge for kids?? The RCI model has delivered vastly increased profits this year - their share price has gone from 214p to 394p - is their model flawed?? Their financial data demonstrates it is the ticket revenue which is the driver for increased profitability not additional on board spend.

 

Maybe the flaw in the MSC model is not charging for kids?? :) However would they fill their ships without such a marketing strategy ??

 

Annie

Edited August 20, 2014 by anniegb

[earn]

I agree with that model, but not the one that says that the driver is on board spend. I would say I love Royal Caribbean and really like MSC, so would be happy to go on either. We have never availed ourselves of the kids cruise free option as we usually book a balcony for us and an inside opposite for the boys. If they were too young to be in their own cabin, it would be a great deal, and would make MSC a no brainer, price wise, over RCI. Our cruise this year on MSC was driven by school holiday times. RCI didn't do any decent length cruises while the boys were off school, so we switched and enjoyed it. We had done one MSC cruise last year, before our RCI TA, so knew we liked it before committing to 17 nights!

[earn]

If the?? was a question and not rhetorical, then the answer is yes, they charge kids exactly the same as adults. So in their own cabin they pay as adults as they do on MSC and when sharing they pay the 3rd and 4th passenger fee as would adults.

[anniegb]

If the?? was a question and not rhetorical, then the answer is yes, they charge kids exactly the same as adults. So in their own cabin they pay as adults as they do on MSC and when sharing they pay the 3rd and 4th passenger fee as would adults.

 

 

Thanks for answering the question. That is what I thought.

 

Just to clarify, RCI say the driver in profit is the revenue from ticket sales NOT on board spend. They appear content just to get more bodies on board.

 

Interestingly RCI in their Q2 report that they have obtained higher pricing in Europe and that was a big factor in increased profits. Not surprising as the Caribbean has too many ships.

 

One last note, I have just received an email offer from MSC and they are charging for kids?? Is that a new development??

 

At least on RCI I do not need to pay more than 50% solo penalty and I can obtain on occasion 'Tuesday Special' pricing.

 

Annie

[Katgoesonholiday]

One last note, I have just received an email offer from MSC and they are charging for kids?? Is that a new development??

 

What does it say? I noticed today that they are now saying that kids 11 and under travel free. I thought that was new as I don't recall an age stated previously.

 

Also, I believe that they still pay in the Yacht Club but I could be wrong on that

[anniegb]

What does it say? I noticed today that they are now saying that kids 11 and under travel free. I thought that was new as I don't recall an age stated previously.

 

Also, I believe that they still pay in the Yacht Club but I could be wrong on that

 

Just checking.

 

It is from a UK TA.

 

7 night Christmas Cruise on the Splendida (flights included)

 

Inside cabin - from £629; Outside £699 ;children from £399.

 

Sorry no more detail.

 

Annie

[Katgoesonholiday]

I wonder if the child cost is the port fees + flights rather than any direct cruise fare costs

[anniegb]

I wonder if the child cost is the port fees + flights rather than any direct cruise fare costs

 

Possible.

 

I don't know the routing.

 

The email actually said 'free flights' - I changed the wording.

 

As a solo however, I won't check it out :)

 

Annie

[papcx]

So now they don't want kids!

 

Looks like MSC are going to be sailing with empty ships.

[The_Big_M]

 

Looks like MSC are going to be sailing with empty ships.

 

Oh, really.

 

I somehow trust their yield management better.

[anniegb]

So now they don't want kids!

 

Looks like MSC are going to be sailing with empty ships.

 

Don't agree.

 

I have only sailed MSC on repos and there were substantial groups of repeat MSC passengers from Germany, Holland and Italy that I know of. The repos were their annual holiday.

 

UK passengers and even more so UK solo passengers are but a small percentage of the customer base - we are easily replaced.

 

Just look at the rates MSC are obtaining on the Orchestra trip to Oz??

 

Annie

[Elmartellama]

It's not that MSC want kids, it's that they want their parents! and if they not offered kid sail free promotion, many families could not buy a family cruise. Kids are good to MSC because they get more revenue per room even if they sail free, only because they also drink, take excursions etc. Off course the downside effect of that policy is that the ship is too crowded on school holidays, but that is only a problem to other passengers, not to MSC finances. Accordingly, we try not to sail on those dates.

 

@earn. Enjoy Port de Pollença. My parents live by Pollença bay, such a lovely place. October is middle season, so at the end of the month many offers are available, maybe that's what happened.

 

We like to make short hotel stays in may and other mid / low season months in Mallorca, the prices are usually good and many hotels provide high quality facilities. Even if they are expensive in peak season, many nice hotels sell half board days at 75€ for two residents (38€ pp). Sometimes it's winter when we do this, but they have thermal areas, so you can spend a weekend for not that much.

[anniegb]

While I am here, I thought I might get my recent holiday tale of woe off my chest. Not cruise related and very boring, so feel free to stop reading.

 

Booked a good all inc deal with Thomsons to Puerto Pollensa on Saturday. Not bad at £299 per person during the October school holidays. Decided we would like some company and before telling another couple of friends checked the price on Sunday. By then it was £220!! I was outwith my 24 hr grace and so far Thomsons won't budge. At least the other two families got a fantastic deal.

 

I am smarting slightly, but have decided that if it was a good deal on Saturday, it is still a good deal now, and you win some and lose some. £320 is not insignificant though.

 

Hi Earn

 

That deal is not available to solos. I am cruising but just thought I would check it out as I was curious.

 

Annie

[AmoMondo]

I wonder if the child cost is the port fees + flights rather than any direct cruise fare costs

 

Could be or perhaps it is. Eac use it is a heist as cruise and therefore at a premium.

 

They have different policies in different countries when it comes to kids sail free. Haven't checked the UK site lately but it was always 17 and under whereas the US was a much lower age to qualify. In the past the UK allowed kids sail free in the YC but they didn't in the US.

[Skipper Tim]

Could be or perhaps it is. Eac use it is a heist as cruise and therefore at a premium.

 

They have different policies in different countries when it comes to kids sail free. Haven't checked the UK site lately but it was always 17 and under whereas the US was a much lower age to qualify. In the past the UK allowed kids sail free in the YC but they didn't in the US.

 

From the UK website:

 

"Possibly the best family cruise deal of all, with MSC children under 18 travelling in the same cabin as two full paying adults CRUISE FREE! We also have special rates for children accompanied by just one parent in the same cabin. Or if you prefer to travel in two adjacent cabins with connecting doors then we can offer that arrangment too - something that won't find with many other cruise companies. Insurance, flights and transfers (where required) are excluded from the offer." [http://www.msccruises.co.uk/uk_en/Cruise-Departures/Cruises-For-Families.aspx].

 

The parent page has headings "Cruises for Two" and "Cruises for Families" but notably absent is any information for singles.

[AmoMondo]

Could be or perhaps it is. Eac use it is a heist as cruise and therefore at a premium.

 

They have different policies in different countries when it comes to kids sail free. Haven't checked the UK site lately but it was always 17 and under whereas the US was a much lower age to qualify. In the past the UK allowed kids sail free in the YC but they didn't in the US.

 

I really should know by now to check what my IPad has converted what I'm saying to, before I hit submit. Even I'm struggling to understand my first sentence! Believe it or not, I was saying it could be different because it was a Christmas cruise being quoted.

[earn]

LOL! Believe it or not, I actually guessed that was what you meant :)

 

I am pretty sure it is port taxes, which you always have to pay plus the cost of the flight to MSC. In the past I have done a number of dummy quotes and the only time the cost for kids in the same cabin was more than the tax was if there was a free flight.

 

I have never managed to get a quote for YC with kids included. I would like to try that, but would only do it if we shared a cabin as the price otherwise would be more than my Scottish blood could stand!

[anniegb]

Hi Tim

 

From the RCI boards:

 

http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=43829703#post43829703 Does RCI want to sail with empty cabins??

 

They appear not to want to sell cabins to either couples or solos.

 

Maybe a pattern is developing??

 

Annie

Edited August 21, 2014 by anniegb

[Skipper Tim]

Hi Tim

 

From the RCI boards:

 

http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=43829703#post43829703 Does RCI want to sail with empty cabins??

 

They appear not to want to sell cabins to either couples or solos.

 

Maybe a pattern is developing??

 

Annie

 

You could well be right. It is a common, but somewhat legally dubious, practice for apparent competitors to work together 'as an industry' to avoid 'unfairly competing' against each other and thereby driving profits down for all. This is the sort of thing that gets discussed and agreed at trade association-only conferences.

 

Another example was when the newly anointed Giles Hawke announced that he wanted MSC to "increase cooperation with travel agents". This was obvious code for something. The leaked detail of this was that travel agents could only sell MSC cruises if they did not discount MSC fares. In return for which MSC would not undercut the agents or reduce their commissions (as Mr. Hawke had done disastrously with Carnival UK) - i.e. a total price-fixing agreement.

 

It would not surprise me at all of there were cross-line agreements to use certain yield-management models that sought to maximise overall revenue without discounting at short notice - so as not to compete with each other and to encourage cruise-goers to book early, at higher fares in future years. An industry-supporting move? Or plain illegal price-manipulation?

[anniegb]

You could well be right. It is a common, but somewhat legally dubious, practice for apparent competitors to work together 'as an industry' to avoid 'unfairly competing' against each other and thereby driving profits down for all. This is the sort of thing that gets discussed and agreed at trade association-only conferences.

 

Another example was when the newly anointed Giles Hawke announced that he wanted MSC to "increase cooperation with travel agents". This was obvious code for something. The leaked detail of this was that travel agents could only sell MSC cruises if they did not discount MSC fares. In return for which MSC would not undercut the agents or reduce their commissions (as Mr. Hawke had done disastrously with Carnival UK) - i.e. a total price-fixing agreement.

 

It would not surprise me at all of there were cross-line agreements to use certain yield-management models that sought to maximise overall revenue without discounting at short notice - so as not to compete with each other and to encourage cruise-goers to book early, at higher fares in future years. An industry-supporting move? Or plain illegal price-manipulation?

 

However no cruise line is compelled to sell all their cabins??

 

However 2 interesting titbits from major players Norwegian and RCI both appear to be concerned about filling their ships in the future when all the new builds are launched. Interesting times ahead.

 

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/08/21/49070/cruise-market-must-grow-or-will-struggle-to-fill-ships.html

 

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/08/20/49061/norwegian-at-cruise-capacity-tipping-point.html

 

I am a fairly new cruiser but I am already returning to land options through a combination of price and itinerary.

 

Annie

[Kiwi67]

Hi

I am traveling solo on Fantasia and Splendid in October. I booked in Feb and have paid for a room with zero single supplement. My TA couldn't believe that I could do this after I booked directly with MSC. I was told then that there were only a handful of rooms per cruise where this is available. Not sure if anything has changed since then?

Good luck to other solo traveller's.