Why are tipping threads always removed

[fizzy]

I am certainly not confused - far from it - and suggesting I am is condescending. ;)

 

Perhaps while you were busy chastising me, you didn't realize you closed with the "confused" icon.

[UKCruiseJeff]

I am certainly not confused - far from it - and suggesting I am is condescending. ;)

 

Perhaps while you were busy chastising me, you didn't realize you closed with the "confused" icon.

 

What would be your position on this issue if you believed that none of your fare that was taken as gratuities was passed on to staff.

 

Would it bother you or not?

[Mr Luxury]

I do not know where the 15% figure comes from.

As far as I know an amount has never been published.

 

All that has been published is that gratuities are included in your fare.

 

You can choose to give more or not give more if you wish.

 

It's a personal thing and not hard to understand.

 

You will not be asked to walk the plank if you give a gratuity and you will not be shot if you do not.

[johnnycruise]

Now that I think about it, once the flaming starts and the dog pile begins; this thread will probably be removed…..

 

The answer to the OP's question in a nutshell.

[fizzy]

 

What would be your position on this issue if you believed that none of your fare that was taken as gratuities was passed on to staff.

 

Would it bother you or not?

 

Quite honestly, I believe it is up to the employees to take charge of their own situations since unless I were to seek a job on the ship and work undercover, how in the world would I be able to comment intelligently on the subject. I would not think it was any of my business in the same way I would not think to ask a fellow passenger, over cocktails, what and how they were paid.

[UKCruiseJeff]

 

Quite honestly, I believe it is up to the employees to take charge of their own situations since unless I were to seek a job on the ship and work undercover, how in the world would I be able to comment intelligently on the subject. I would not think it was any of my business in the same way I would not think to ask a fellow passenger, over cocktails, what and how they were paid.

 

Yes, but no one has suggested asking employees or other passengers what they earn so your reply is a bit of an Aunt Sally.

 

I asked you specifically whether it bothered you or not whether the gratuities you pay within your fare are passed on to staff.

 

Would it be unfair to say you couldn't care less?

[nfcu]

 

Yes, but no one has suggested asking employees or other passengers what they earn so your reply is a bit of an Aunt Sally.

 

I asked you specifically whether it bothered you or not whether the gratuities you pay within your fare are passed on to staff.

 

Would it be unfair to say you couldn't care less?

 

 

Sorry to interject, but I believe it is none of my business how or how much the crew is paid. So I guess you can add me to the "couldn't care less" category. And I do always give extra tips at the end of the voyage to a variety of crew members.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Sorry to interject, but I believe it is none of my business how or how much the crew is paid. So I guess you can add me to the "couldn't care less" category. And I do always give extra tips at the end of the voyage to a variety of crew members.

 

Correct. I agree with you. :)

 

What do you think about gratuities being taken as a part of the fare and not being passed on to staff.

 

Does it bother you or not?

Edited August 21, 2014 by UKCruiseJeff

[Randyk47]

Personally I've never given SS crew and staff compensation that much thought. In my simple way of thinking the fare I pay covers all sorts of expenses (fuel, food, beverages, ship maintenance, crew/staff compensation, etc) and supposedly some margin of profit. I'm sure you could, and probably SS accountants do, assign a percentage to each expense category. Is the crew/staff compensation percentage 15%? Is it a gratuity or is it a wage? Beats me. I've only had one conversations with a staff member that even verged on talking about compensation and it really wasn't specific. Two years ago I boarded the Wind and it turned out one of the staff and I recognized each other from Holland America. Somewhere along the cruise I asked how they liked SS. They replied they liked it because of shorter contracts and better pay. That was it.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Randyk47

[carefreecruise]

The answer to the OP's question in a nutshell.

 

Was sending off a couple of family members on a Royal Caribbean adventure and they showed me it included all tips. Of course everything on the ship is a chargeable item but the normal 3 to 6 envelopes to fill up at the end have been deleted. They were very pleased about having to figure all that stuff out.

 

I told them that’s great and if for some reason you want to tip any person on the ship, please do it very discreetly or it will make other guests feel very uncomfortable.

 

Looks like this is just what is happening on Seabourn and Silversea cruises. Company did away with the traditional tipping at the end of a voyage to make guests feel more comfortable, about the whole tipping thing. But even this thread stirs up the same uncomfortable feelings that Silversea and others wanted to eliminate….

 

So I guess the same applies, be very discreet and leave it to operate in the shadows. Last thing Silversea would like to have is guests not traveling with them, concerned with should-they or should-they not be tipping? you know the old saying "Once embarrassed never to return"

 

Wonder if we have moved this thread officially into the dog pile now...

Edited August 21, 2014 by carefreecruise

[UKCruiseJeff]

It is puzzling how some feel so uncomfortable about this topic that they do not wish to see it discussed.

[Observer]

Was sending off a couple of family members on a Royal Caribbean adventure and they showed me it included all tips. Of course everything on the ship is a chargeable item but the normal 3 to 6 envelopes to fill up at the end have been deleted. They were very pleased about having to figure all that stuff out.

 

Last year, I am pretty sure that RCL added tips ($~10-15/person/day) to the folio at the end of the cruise. One could have the tip amount removed if one wanted. But the automatic additional charge replaced the envelopes. Gratuities were not included in the RCL fare last year. Of course, your family members may have had these charges prepaid by a TA.

[duct tape]

The 15% I quoted applies to the spa. I was told by the manager when the change in fees occurred.

[Travelcat2]

It is rather strange to see Silversea being compared to RCCL. Wouldn't it make more sense to compare Silversea to Seabourn, Regent and Crystal since that is their direct competition? All of these luxury lines include tips. Not only does this make it easier for their guests, it alleviates the "expectation". It is the expectation that is concerning to me. The more people tip, the greater the expectation.

 

We took one cruise with a very unsatisfactory butler (not Silversea). At the end of the cruise, he stood in our suite waiting for a tip. It was very uncomfortable. When someone goes above and beyond their normal scope of service for us, I give them a gift (monetary or something we purchased) and make it very clear that this is a gift - not a tip but a thank you for the extra service they gave us. The last thing we would want to do is to see more butlers, steward/stewardesses, etc. standing around waiting for a tip.

 

One reason we sail on luxury cruise lines is so that we don't have to think about tipping, alcohol, specialty restaurants, etc. Silversea and Crystal have dipped their toes into being non-inclusive with both lines charging for dining in a specialty restaurant. Silversea no longer includes air. Maybe I was wrong about not comparing Silversea with RSSC as it may eventually become competition after all. Hope not.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Travelcat2

[UKCruiseJeff]

It is rather strange to see Silversea being compared to RCCL. Wouldn't it make more sense to compare Silversea to Seabourn, Regent and Crystal since that is their direct competition? All of these luxury lines include tips. Not only does this make it easier for their guests, it alleviates the "expectation". It is the expectation that is concerning to me. The more people tip, the greater the expectation.

 

We took one cruise with a very unsatisfactory butler (not Silversea). At the end of the cruise, he stood in our suite waiting for a tip. It was very uncomfortable. When someone goes above and beyond their normal scope of service for us, I give them a gift (monetary or something we purchased) and make it very clear that this is a gift - not a tip but a thank you for the extra service they gave us. The last thing we would want to do is to see more butlers, steward/stewardesses, etc. standing around waiting for a tip.

 

One reason we sail on luxury cruise lines is so that we don't have to think about tipping, alcohol, specialty restaurants, etc. Silversea and Crystal have dipped their toes into being non-inclusive with both lines charging for dining in a specialty restaurant. Silversea no longer includes air. Maybe I was wrong about not comparing Silversea with RSSC as it may eventually become competition after all. Hope not.

 

What do you think about gratuities being taken as a part of the fare and not being passed on to staff.

 

Does it bother you or not?

[Randyk47]

What do you think about gratuities being taken as a part of the fare and not being passed on to staff.

 

Does it bother you or not?

 

While you're waiting for a response I have my own questions for you. Are you saying or proposing that buried in the fare is a charge that could be or is designated as a gratuity? Do you separate a gratuity from whatever percentage of the fare is assigned to wages? I ask because I've never seen or heard of, unlike some other cruise lines, a separate charge line for gratuities from SS so I'm wondering if it exists. It would also imply that service staff compensation varies from cruise to cruise and ship to ship based on capacity and actual occupancy. That could be but I've never thought that was the case.

[oregon50]

It is puzzling how some feel so uncomfortable about this topic that they do not wish to see it discussed.

 

An island with a population of one.

 

And I would like to see the portion of my fare allocated to toilet paper.

Edited August 22, 2014 by oregon50

[UKCruiseJeff]

While you're waiting for a response I have my own questions for you. Are you saying or proposing that buried in the fare is a charge that could be or is designated as a gratuity? Do you separate a gratuity from whatever percentage of the fare is assigned to wages? I ask because I've never seen or heard of, unlike some other cruise lines, a separate charge line for gratuities from SS so I'm wondering if it exists. It would also imply that service staff compensation varies from cruise to cruise and ship to ship based on capacity and actual occupancy. That could be but I've never thought that was the case.

 

 

Yes, because as I posted from the Silversea website earlier in the thread, that is what they specifically state. If a gratuity is listed as something you have already been charged for then it is seperate from wages. It is a gratuity. Wages are included in the basic fare excluding the gratuities.

 

It is clear to me that Silversea take an increased fare that includes gratuities so that customers feel they needn't be concerned and see the fare as "better value". It is also clear to me that this notional increase in the fare for customers is not passed on to staff. That concerns me. It doesn't concern everyone. Hence my question.

[Randyk47]

Yes, because as I posted from the Silversea website earlier in the thread, that is what they specifically state. If a gratuity is listed as something you have already been charged for then it is seperate from wages. It is a gratuity. Wages are included in the basic fare excluding the gratuities.

 

It is clear to me that Silversea take an increased fare that includes gratuities so that customers feel they needn't be concerned and see the fare as "better value". It is also clear to me that this notional increase in the fare for customers is not passed on to staff. That concerns me. It doesn't concern everyone. Hence my question.

 

OK. I see your point and my answer would be that it would bother me if gratuities wrapped up in the fare were not making it to the appropriate staff. Can't say it any other way than if that's the case it's just plain wrong.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Randyk47

[UKCruiseJeff]

OK. I see your point and my answer would be that it would bother me if gratuities wrapped up in the fare were not making it to the appropriate staff. Can't say it any other way than if that's the case it's just plain wrong.

 

 

Thanks.

 

:)

[lincslady]

Jeff - I can very well believe that the gratuities on Silversea are not passed on to the staff, but are you quite sure on this one?

 

I don't know if others feel, like me, that the Silversea owner/management attitude is a bit secretive, and dare I say devious. Maybe this applies to all the other gratuities included lines as well, I have no idea.

[Randyk47]

Jeff - I can very well believe that the gratuities on Silversea are not passed on to the staff, but are you quite sure on this one?

 

I don't know if others feel, like me, that the Silversea owner/management attitude is a bit secretive, and dare I say devious. Maybe this applies to all the other gratuities included lines as well, I have no idea.

 

Holy moly......guess since we're only two years into sailing with Silversea we're still newbies even with 20 years on other lines. I kind of understand any line being a bit secretive in a proprietary way about their costing and fare determination but devious? Hmmm.... As for other lines and their either hidden or up front gratuities? I too have no idea if indeed the money is actually getting to the staff.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Jeff - I can very well believe that the gratuities on Silversea are not passed on to the staff, but are you quite sure on this one?

 

I don't know if others feel, like me, that the Silversea owner/management attitude is a bit secretive, and dare I say devious. Maybe this applies to all the other gratuities included lines as well, I have no idea.

 

Yes, I'm quite sure to my own satisfaction. One has to be sensible about this.

 

1. When we had the food in the crew cabins fiasco many SS employees posted convincingly around the web about SS employment practices and conditions. I read quite a lot of it. Some was rubbish but some were convincing. Several separately complained that wages were not only lower than other lines, that they were cheated out of overtime payments ie they worked overtime hours, the hours were properly recorded but then not paid and payments were refused and not fully compensated. Staff who complained were told that they would be terminated if they pursued a complaint. A successful claim was bought to court. They also complained that gratuities included in the fares were not passed on to staff. I believed some of the accounts.

 

2 Silversea unlike earlier, no longer directly employ many people that serve. They are subcontractors that come and go and are paid a basic wage by East European contractors. How could gratuities be passed to these people exactly?

 

3. If Silversea passed on the gratuity they would specifically say so. They don't.

 

I think both the customers and staff are stiffed. Is this important? To some yes, and to some no.

 

I hate to state the obvious, but no one has actually ever said that these payments are passed on. They simp,y say they are included and no further is expected. Where do they say that staff get these payments?

 

Jeff

Edited August 22, 2014 by UKCruiseJeff

[Tothesunset]

Does anyone know if the gratuities added to the final bill or charged on bar pruchases on other cruise lines actually go to the employees. I always wondered if this was just a way of getting more out of the passenger.

[lincslady]

I hadn't seen the posts from employees at the time of the food fiasco on Silversea. In the past we have blithely assumed that a gratuity was passed on to all staff, perhaps according to how many passengers were on board at the time, but obviously thinking about it, it seems much more likely that they simply rely on their pay. I am, however, pretty sure from what I have been told that the staff who are from Europe, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand etc. etc. do get a better rate of pay than those from the Phillipines - not if they work for the same line, but say on Seabourn as compared with Silversea.

 

Some lines do have a crew fund, and it seems pretty certain that this does go to the crew, though I think sometimes for amenities like tv sets for them, rather than cash they can spend how they like. They do know if you have given, and you will be thanked.