2 possible EBOLA patients on MAGIC

[old sole]

Again, the reality on the ship doesn't match the hysteria that might be reported in the media.

 

Actually, after just catching up after about 24 hrs away from this story it seems to me we progressed from hysteria to lunacy somewhere along the way. All I keep seeing is what seems to me to be an irrational supposition that any proximity to someone who was near the Ebola virus will result in it spreading like pneumonic plague across the globe.

 

Why is there ZERO mention of the obvious evidence that it is very difficult to contract this disease? Mr. Duncan was far sicker than the nurse that traveled to Ohio and back when he was living with people in Dallas, including his fiance. Even after he finally was admitted to the hospital those people were quarantined to the apartment for 2 days with all of Mr. Duncan's clothing, bedding, and other personal effects still there. Not one of those people got sick.

 

The two nurses who did get sick were treating him when he was in the final stages of this horrible, messy disease when his body had become a bloody leaking mass of virus-laden fluids. No one in that condition would ever be out in public where anyone other than caregivers could come in contact with them. To me, it is reassuring that being in close contact with someone infected with Ebola even at the stage where they had had a fever over 103 degrees for several days and had severe abdominal cramping and muscle and joint pain was still not infectious enough to cause anyone living in the same house with him to get sick.

 

And stopping the world because a LAB WORKER was on a cruise ship? Does no one who works in the CDC labs, NIH, military bio-weapons labs, or other facilities handling not only Ebola but also Anthrax and all sorts of other dangerous substances ever get to travel? That is really over the top. I'm sure that poor lady feels awful about the reaction to her presence on the ship.

 

I don't think my use of the word lunacy is far off the mark in describing a large part of the discussion of this story.

[ducklite]

How so? If she can't provide proof she called in advance I would send her the bill.

 

 

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I disagree. At the time she boarded, there was no mandate about health care workers who were asymptomatic. She had no duty to call anyone unless the protocol she was given (if any) advised doing so.

 

Again, the people who need to be blamed for this fiasco are the Infectious Disease Chair at that hospital, the attending who sent Duncan home the first time, the CDC, DHS, and the Department of State.

[ducklite]

Just wondering if they have announced that they are changing the turn around procedure tomorrow. Are they taking any extra steps to clean the ship? Have they assured the oncoming passengers that they will dock as scheduled in the ports of call?

 

Please explain why they would need to do anything special to clean the ship. At this point there is someone who has no symptoms. I'm sure that she will have blood tests done before they dock. If she is free of the disease (which at 20+ days post exposure and asymptomatic, I'm 99.99999% sure she is), why would they need to do anything special? Once they can confirm the lab worker is disease free, the ports would have no problem allowing the ship to dock again.

[ducklite]

Actually, after just catching up after about 24 hrs away from this story it seems to me we progressed from hysteria to lunacy somewhere along the way. All I keep seeing is what seems to me to be an irrational supposition that any proximity to someone who was near the Ebola virus will result in it spreading like pneumonic plague across the globe.

 

Why is there ZERO mention of the obvious evidence that it is very difficult to contract this disease? Mr. Duncan was far sicker than the nurse that traveled to Ohio and back when he was living with people in Dallas, including his fiance. Even after he finally was admitted to the hospital those people were quarantined to the apartment for 2 days with all of Mr. Duncan's clothing, bedding, and other personal effects still there. Not one of those people got sick.

 

The two nurses who did get sick were treating him when he was in the final stages of this horrible, messy disease when his body had become a bloody leaking mass of virus-laden fluids. No one in that condition would ever be out in public where anyone other than caregivers could come in contact with them. To me, it is reassuring that being in close contact with someone infected with Ebola even at the stage where they had had a fever over 103 degrees for several days and had severe abdominal cramping and muscle and joint pain was still not infectious enough to cause anyone living in the same house with him to get sick.

 

And stopping the world because a LAB WORKER was on a cruise ship? Does no one who works in the CDC labs, NIH, military bio-weapons labs, or other facilities handling not only Ebola but also Anthrax and all sorts of other dangerous substances ever get to travel? That is really over the top. I'm sure that poor lady feels awful about the reaction to her presence on the ship.

 

I don't think my use of the word lunacy is far off the mark in describing a large part of the discussion of this story.

 

::::APPLAUSE::::

 

By the way, I know a woman who is a researcher at a major pharmaceutical company who does research on Anthrax. She also cruises on CCL and RCCL a couple times a year. Just saying...

[cruisejess]

Why? As far as everything being reported, the ship is coming in on schedule and there are no changes to the departure later that day. It's business as usual. Unless it turns out that the lab worker does have Ebola antibodies in her blood, there would be absolutely no reason for extra workers. If she is infected, it's not going to be Carnival workers at the dock, it's going to be DHS/CDC and the USCG.

 

Doesn't it take a couple of days to get the results for the blood test?

[ducklite]

Doesn't it take a couple of days to get the results for the blood test?

 

The test takes four hours and can be performed at a lab in Austin. They will most likely helicopter the specimen off the ship at some point directly to Austin in order to have the results before the ship is due to dock.

[DirtyDawg]

Actually, after just catching up after about 24 hrs away from this story it seems to me we progressed from hysteria to lunacy somewhere along the way. All I keep seeing is what seems to me to be an irrational supposition that any proximity to someone who was near the Ebola virus will result in it spreading like pneumonic plague across the globe.

 

Why is there ZERO mention of the obvious evidence that it is very difficult to contract this disease? Mr. Duncan was far sicker than the nurse that traveled to Ohio and back when he was living with people in Dallas, including his fiance. Even after he finally was admitted to the hospital those people were quarantined to the apartment for 2 days with all of Mr. Duncan's clothing, bedding, and other personal effects still there. Not one of those people got sick.

 

The two nurses who did get sick were treating him when he was in the final stages of this horrible, messy disease when his body had become a bloody leaking mass of virus-laden fluids. No one in that condition would ever be out in public where anyone other than caregivers could come in contact with them. To me, it is reassuring that being in close contact with someone infected with Ebola even at the stage where they had had a fever over 103 degrees for several days and had severe abdominal cramping and muscle and joint pain was still not infectious enough to cause anyone living in the same house with him to get sick.

 

And stopping the world because a LAB WORKER was on a cruise ship? Does no one who works in the CDC labs, NIH, military bio-weapons labs, or other facilities handling not only Ebola but also Anthrax and all sorts of other dangerous substances ever get to travel? That is really over the top. I'm sure that poor lady feels awful about the reaction to her presence on the ship.

 

I don't think my use of the word lunacy is far off the mark in describing a large part of the discussion of this story.

 

Yes!!

 

It sure does appear that Hysteria and Lunacy have been far more contagious than the dreaded Ebola around here lately.:rolleyes:

[loohoo1]

Actually, after just catching up after about 24 hrs away from this story it seems to me we progressed from hysteria to lunacy somewhere along the way. All I keep seeing is what seems to me to be an irrational supposition that any proximity to someone who was near the Ebola virus will result in it spreading like pneumonic plague across the globe.

 

Why is there ZERO mention of the obvious evidence that it is very difficult to contract this disease? Mr. Duncan was far sicker than the nurse that traveled to Ohio and back when he was living with people in Dallas, including his fiance. Even after he finally was admitted to the hospital those people were quarantined to the apartment for 2 days with all of Mr. Duncan's clothing, bedding, and other personal effects still there. Not one of those people got sick.

 

The two nurses who did get sick were treating him when he was in the final stages of this horrible, messy disease when his body had become a bloody leaking mass of virus-laden fluids. No one in that condition would ever be out in public where anyone other than caregivers could come in contact with them. To me, it is reassuring that being in close contact with someone infected with Ebola even at the stage where they had had a fever over 103 degrees for several days and had severe abdominal cramping and muscle and joint pain was still not infectious enough to cause anyone living in the same house with him to get sick.

 

And stopping the world because a LAB WORKER was on a cruise ship? Does no one who works in the CDC labs, NIH, military bio-weapons labs, or other facilities handling not only Ebola but also Anthrax and all sorts of other dangerous substances ever get to travel? That is really over the top. I'm sure that poor lady feels awful about the reaction to her presence on the ship.

 

I don't think my use of the word lunacy is far off the mark in describing a large part of the discussion of this story.

 

 

 

LIKE!!!

 

No symptoms; incubation period expired; she appears to be Ebola-free just like you and me (thankfully).

[bobar]

duck lite,

i was referring to when aids was in its infancy. I saw it firsthand as a volunteer, some of my friends were treated as if they had the plague and with no respect as they were dieing. of course 30 yrs later we know more and of course today that is not how they are treated.

anyway hopefully tomorrow will go well and i'll have somethings to tell everyone when i get home from work:cool:

[Roatanfans]

In my morning e-mails was a copy of the US state dept memos to US citizens in Honduras:

 

The U.S. Embassy in Tegucigalpa advises all U.S. citizens residing or traveling in Honduras media outlets and the Honduran Ministry of Health are reporting that a cruise ship that recently visited Roatan Island may have had a passenger on board who is believed to have had indirect contact with an Ebola patient in the United States. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) is the official source of information on the Ebola Virus for the U.S. government, and the U.S. Embassy reminds everyone that CDC Director Tom Frieden emphasized on September 30, that an asymptomatic individual poses no risk of transmitting the virus to others during travel.

 

 

 

In order to ensure that all U.S. citizens in Honduras are fully informed on the Ebola Virus, the U.S. Embassy encourages all U.S. citizens to review the comprehensive information available on the CDC web site at http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/.

[lhamilton]

It looks like it's all coming out OK. However I hate to think what would have happened had there also been an outbreak of Norwalk virus in that ship....

 

Worst case would have been Norwalk and a lab worker who truly had Ebola.

 

I wish that rules had been in place to have stopped the woman's travel. It was a real risk.

 

Linda

[Evangaline]

There are over 75 people with the same very low risk level being monitored in the US right now. Very low risk people are not placed in quarantine and no one is getting hysterical about that. The reason that this lab technician supervisor is getting special attention is because she was on board a cruise ship so that in the remote chance that she did develop symptoms that would not be a good place to be.

 

It would have made sense to get her and her friend off the ship just in the unlikely case she did become symptomatic. But even though there was no risk to anyone in Belize or Mexico at the time they docked, those governments chose to let cruise passengers face that risk, however small, rather than co-operate. Just small-minded politics IMO.

 

As for disinfecting the cruise ship: Unlike the bridal shop in Cleveland where the health care worker was starting to be symptomatic, there is no rational reason to disinfect the cruise ship at this point. But they may do it anyway in order to calm the hysterical.

[BeagleOne]

We don't even know if this woman had ANY "contact" with Mr. Duncan's blood. And if she did, it would almost certainly have been *indirect contact*, such as handling a tube containing some blood.

 

Paper gowns and surgical masks aren't fluid-proof, but in the case of drawing blood by someone who knows what they're doing, the amount of blood that might get "loose" is not going be enough to worry about. A drop or two can easily be cleaned up to prevent the spread of disease. It's not like it's going to be spurting from the vein.

 

Having said that, appropriate PPE should be worn, just as it should be for ANY blood draw. In this case, realistically, she's almost at the end of the risk period. But because there is so much misinformation and panic out there, it wouldn't surprise me if they bring someone on board in a full Level 4 biohazard suit to do the job, if for no other reason than to reassure people.

 

BTW blood draws to check cholesterol etc. don't warrant any PPE but exam gloves.

 

Doctors don't draw blood themselves very often, although of course they're trained to do it. Nurses do it a LOT, so it might be better to have a nurse do it than a doctor! I've drawn quite a bit of blood in my time and I would do it here, provided I had the right equipment.

 

Blood is often drawn using something called a Vacutainer hub; it's a plastic cylinder with a needle attached to one end. You put the needle in the vein, and then put the blood tube on the other end of the needle. The blood tube has a vacuum in it, plus whatever additives are necessary for the tests being run (e.g. to keep the blood from clotting for a CBC), and is sealed with a rubber stopper. When you push the other end of the needle through the stopper, the vacuum sucks the blood into the tube, with no spillage of blood. The blood tubes are then sent off to a lab, and of course they can be sealed in plastic bags if needed.

 

The color of the stopper indicates what tests it's for. Light blue tops are used to collect blood for coagulation tests, for example. You can draw multiple tubes with one venipuncture, and blood does NOT leak out the top of the tubes. You MIGHT get a drop of blood out of the needle when you first puncture the vein, but if you have the tubes right there, and someone to hand them to you, it is not that hard to get all of the samples you need without any blood at all getting "loose".

 

Then when you pull the needle out, you compress the vein with a gauze square, and put a bandage over it, and, when the bandage is removed, seal it in plastic bags for disposal.

 

I'd be VERY surprised if the ship doesn't have these supplies available. IF they decide her blood needs to be drawn onboard they can probably do it. And of course neither I, nor anyone on CC, knows what they're going to do. They can't run the Ebola test on the ship, but maybe, if it's decided a test needs to be run, the blood will be drawn onboard and sent off to get the test started asap.

 

And BTW, I do think her blood should be drawn and an Ebola test run at the end of the risk period, even if she is asymptomatic, just as it should be to others who were exposed to the patients. A lot is not known about this disease, and the more information, the better.

 

http://www.med-worldwide.com/media/ss/240/vacutainer-eclipse-blood-collection-needle-set-ns-sb47368u-0.jpg

 

http://www.fishersci.com/ecomm/servlet/fsproductdetail_10652_12832675__-1_0

[luvtheships]

We don't even know if this woman had ANY "contact" with Mr. Duncan's blood. And if she did, it would almost certainly have been *indirect contact*, such as handling a tube containing some blood.

 

Paper gowns and surgical masks aren't fluid-proof, but in the case of drawing blood by someone who knows what they're doing, the amount of blood that might get "loose" is not going be enough to worry about. A drop or two can easily be cleaned up to prevent the spread of disease. It's not like it's going to be spurting from the vein.

 

Having said that, appropriate PPE should be worn, just as it should be for ANY blood draw. In this case, realistically, she's almost at the end of the risk period. But because there is so much misinformation and panic out there, it wouldn't surprise me if they bring someone on board in a full Level 4 biohazard suit to do the job, if for no other reason than to reassure people.

 

BTW blood draws to check cholesterol etc. don't warrant any PPE but exam gloves.

 

Doctors don't draw blood themselves very often, although of course they're trained to do it. Nurses do it a LOT, so it might be better to have a nurse do it than a doctor! I've drawn quite a bit of blood in my time and I would do it here, provided I had the right equipment.

 

Blood is often drawn using something called a Vacutainer hub; it's a plastic cylinder with a needle attached to one end. You put the needle in the vein, and then put the blood tube on the other end of the needle. The blood tube has a vacuum in it, plus whatever additives are necessary for the tests being run (e.g. to keep the blood from clotting for a CBC), and is sealed with a rubber stopper. When you push the other end of the needle through the stopper, the vacuum sucks the blood into the tube, with no spillage of blood. The blood tubes are then sent off to a lab, and of course they can be sealed in plastic bags if needed.

 

The color of the stopper indicates what tests it's for. Light blue tops are used to collect blood for coagulation tests, for example. You can draw multiple tubes with one venipuncture, and blood does NOT leak out the top of the tubes. You MIGHT get a drop of blood out of the needle when you first puncture the vein, but if you have the tubes right there, and someone to hand them to you, it is not that hard to get all of the samples you need without any blood at all getting "loose".

 

Then when you pull the needle out, you compress the vein with a gauze square, and put a bandage over it, and, when the bandage is removed, seal it in plastic bags for disposal.

 

I'd be VERY surprised if the ship doesn't have these supplies available. IF they decide her blood needs to be drawn onboard they can probably do it. And of course neither I, nor anyone on CC, knows what they're going to do. They can't run the Ebola test on the ship, but maybe, if it's decided a test needs to be run, the blood will be drawn onboard and sent off to get the test started asap.

 

And BTW, I do think her blood should be drawn and an Ebola test run at the end of the risk period, even if she is asymptomatic, just as it should be to others who were exposed to the patients. A lot is not known about this disease, and the more information, the better.

 

http://www.med-worldwide.com/media/ss/240/vacutainer-eclipse-blood-collection-needle-set-ns-sb47368u-0.jpg

 

http://www.fishersci.com/ecomm/servlet/fsproductdetail_10652_12832675__-1_0

 

Of course if nurse Pham or Vinson handled the tube that tube might carry the virus

 

Hopefully the lab worker had the proper hazmat gloves on when she in turn handled that tube

 

But again that is irrational thought on my part.

 

We don't always see the full implications at times but yes this lab worker was at risk albeit probably not infected

 

But definitely at risk.

 

 

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Edited October 18, 2014 by luvtheships

[ShellLoves2cruise]

Wow! Pass judgment much? The truth is, you made a lot of assumptions about the actions of the lab worker when none of us know what her possible disease exposure was, what she was told, or when she understood that she should probably stay home.

 

I think Carnival's response to something out of their control has been incredible.

 

 

I completely agree with everything you posted!!! :)

[ducklite]

I agree completely.

 

I'm just hoping all the fear mongers don't do something to screw up my future cruises.

 

One thing I do know, any cruise of mine that stops in Mexico in the near future will find me enjoying a nice nearly empty ship as the rest of the passengers go ashore and I stay on board. Mexico isn't getting a dime of my money anytime soon, just for being stupid.

 

Actually they are. They'll get your port charges whether you get off or not. You aren't hurting the government, just the people trying to make a living.

[mugtech]

How many times do people need to be told that there are NO direct flights from any of the affected countries...THEREFORE, you would have to restrict flight from EVERY country. What part don't you understand about that? If I were going to restrict travel, I'd restrict it for TEXAS. Emory treated Ebola patients and they have ZERO healthcare workers that been exposed. Texas doesn't have anything prepared and they still don't...so put a restriction on anyone leaving the state of Texas would be more feasible and make more sense...and we all know that can't be done. People just need to get a grip on reality. We don't have an epidemic. We have a couple of people treating Duncan when he was at his worst without proper protective clothing or using the proper procedures to decontaminate or contain the virus. They've all been moved and I don't think Texas will be treating any one with ebola if there is another person infected so it will be contained once the damage Texas Presbyterian caused is under control. Flame away but that's the truth, and you stand a better chance of catching the flu or norvirus thanEbola on a cruise.

 

The medical people I heard claim that by trying to cease all commerce with the big 3 in western Africa we would wind up making the situation worse and the possibility of tracking and thwarting any infections coming out of Africa more difficult.

[travler27]

As I understand it, when she left on the cruise there was a set of protocols in place which permitted a person under her circumstance to travel. Mid-way thru the cruise the protocols were changed and an attempt was made to remove her to the states to adhere to the new protocols. Belize and Mexico refused to cooperate with her transport back to the US so a makeshift protocol, specifically for that one person, was implemented until she could be returned to the states via cruise ship.

 

Is my understanding correct or is she really an evil selfish person with no regard for others as some describe?

[loubetti]

Not cruise related, but travel related, as to airlines, and I think some of you fly on planes to get to ships. Yes?

 

Patrick smith is a prolific airline pilot author and I think you might want to read what he has to say before panic and cancelling cruises comes to fruition.

 

http://www.askthepilot.com/air-travel-and-ebola/

[Boytjie]

My understanding is that very little virus (and antibody) is detectable when someone is asymptomatic so doing s blood test on her might not show anything.

 

Disclosure: I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Boytjie

[BeagleOne]

Great link, Lou, thanks!

[luvtheships]

Not cruise related, but travel related, as to airlines, and I think some of you fly on planes to get to ships. Yes?

 

Patrick smith is a prolific airline pilot author and I think you might want to read what he has to say before panic and cancelling cruises comes to fruition.

 

http://www.askthepilot.com/air-travel-and-ebola/

 

Interesting read.

 

Does he have a medical background? As in med evac or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited October 18, 2014 by luvtheships

[FlaMommy75]

For those of you still looking for updates regarding the Carnival Magic there is a Dallas Newscaster who is onboard and has been tweeting updates.

Here is his latest:

Eric Lupher ‏@EricLupher7News 4h4 hours ago

Big sigh of relief aboard the Magic. On schedule to port at pier 25 in Galveston tomorrow morning @ 8am. All will disembark via the captain

 

:):):)

[luvtheships]

My understanding is that very little virus (and antibody) is detectable when someone is asymptomatic so doing s blood test on her might not show anything.

 

Disclosure: I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.

 

Yes I read that as well. Wasn't that one of the reasons they were saying its actually closer to 42 days and not 21?

 

 

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[luvtheships]

For those of you still looking for updates regarding the Carnival Magic there is a Dallas Newscaster who is onboard and has been tweeting updates.

Here is his latest:

Eric Lupher ‏@EricLupher7News 4h4 hours ago

Big sigh of relief aboard the Magic. On schedule to port at pier 25 in Galveston tomorrow morning @ 8am. All will disembark via the captain

 

:):):)

 

Excellent!!! I bet he has been in very close contact with the CDC. They must have given the ok.

 

 

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