Food poisoning

[mariners]

To the OP, you have my sympathy for what you endured onboard your sailing.

 

I am surprised that food poisoning is not reported more often. In fact, I believe that some of the Noro cases on some sailings (on all cruise lines) might actually be as a result of food poisoning rather than Noro. As has been pointed out, although the symptoms can be similar, there are specific differences. I believe from what the OP has written that there is no doubt that it was food poisoning.

 

In terms of food handling, sanitation, etc., all one has to do is take a trans-Atlantic sailing where the ship ends up in the USA to know that what is done to enter USA is, in my experience, not the same as what is done when the ship is sailing elsewhere.

 

In the past, I know that Regent did have difficulty regulating the temperature of hot items on deck. Concerns were also raised about different items that needed to be kept cold. I thought that Regent had instituted new measures, at least at that time, that addressed these issues. Items that needed to be kept cold were kept on ice. Items that needed to be served hot were tested to ensure that the temperature was adequate, and, when it wasn't, the items were discarded. It sounds like this needs to be enforced again.

 

In the "old days", the jars of mayonnaise were for one use only, as were the mustard and ketchup.

 

Despite eating in every country we have visited while on a cruise, the only times that I have become ill from the food have been as a result of being on a cruise. May I continue to be so lucky, and, also, not be threatened with being disembarked because of becoming ill.

Edited February 7, 2015 by mariners

[OctoberKat]

I cannot possibly imagine spending two weeks in the Mediterranean and not eating in Italy or France. Why on earth travel halfway across the world to eat only on the ship where one is served upscale US-based institutional food? I am not saying I do not enjoy the food on Regent because I rather like it; however, I would never pass up a wood-fired Sicilian pizza in order to make it back to the ship in time for lunch in Compass Rose.

 

Big ditto and Boy Howdy!

[OctoberKat]

Sorry to disagree with some of you but for me one of the greatest pleasures of visiting foreign countries is to try their food which is a great part of any culture. I always try to eat lunch off the ship. I uses common sense in choosing where I eat just as I would in any city in the U. S. And frankly, from the OP's description of what goes on on the Navigator it's riskier to eat on the ship.

 

Yeehaw, amigo.

[Emperor Norton]

 

Dan are you suggesting that Regent's restaurants, chef's, cooks, waiter,etc. cut corners regarding food handling, safety or cleanliness regulations? That is a serious allegation. Regent has always passed all there US health inspections with high marks.

 

I have sailed over 450 nites and 33 voyages with Regent/Radisson and my experience is the exact opposite, the staff go to exceptional lengths regarding restaurant and kitchen cleanliness and food safety. Every food items that is put out on on the buffet has a date and time and pull time sticker on it. I see crew constantly monitoring the food temperature and serve times.

 

As far as to OP and others posting here about mayo being left out unrefrigerated being a food safety issue, this is mostly a myth. As long as it is not mixed with another food, mayo really doesn't need to be refrigerated. Commercially prepackaged mayo has a ph that is far to low to allow bacterial growth. Actually adding mayo to other foods will act as a preservative and extend it's serving life.

 

Norovirus and other common GI illnesses are almost always due to poor hygiene and not food. For this you can usually blame your fellow passenger, not the ship's crew.

 

J

 

 

 

I'll say that Regent is the only line I've been on that tried to serve bread that was 20% bread and 80% mold.

 

The statement that "Regent has always passed all there(sic) US health inspections with high marks." is not accurate.

 

Anything below an 85 is not passing...

 

Per the CDC:

Seven Seas Mariner Prestige Cruise Holdings 8/1/2001 83

Seven Seas Navigator Prestige Cruise Holdings 6/16/2013 79

Seven Seas Navigator Prestige Cruise Holdings 12/17/1999 76

[Les Picantins]

Thanks to all of the other posters who had kind words and support for what we endured. However, for those of you who think that I am overreacting or believe that my husband's personal hygeine may be in question, I invite you to look up some of my previous posts over the last few years on various luxury line CC boards. Most of them are food related, as that is my livlihood. I have always been fair when it comes to the F&B department because I understand and appreciate their challenges of working at sea.

 

I would also like to mention that we are VERY careful travellers. We avoid buffets whenever possible, we always have bactigel on hand and use it. We avoid touching handrails and open doors with our arms. We chose to remain onboard in Guatemala for fear of being bitten by a strange mosquito.

 

I also understand that policies are only as good as those enforcing them. A week does not go by in my business that I don't catch one of my employees breaking the rules with tracability or rotation because it was easier for them. Yes, I am the first to know that unfortunate things can happen.

 

All that said, I will never accept the way that my husband was (mis)treated after they poisoned him. Had the hotel manager responded differently, we wouldn't be reading this thread at all.

[OctoberKat]

Regret not only your husband's illness, Les Picantins, but your treatment by cruise management. Should not have happened.

[Travelcat2]

I'll say that Regent is the only line I've been on that tried to serve bread that was 20% bread and 80% mold.

 

The statement that "Regent has always passed all there(sic) US health inspections with high marks." is not accurate.

 

Anything below an 85 is not passing...

 

Per the CDC:

Seven Seas Mariner Prestige Cruise Holdings 8/1/2001 83

Seven Seas Navigator Prestige Cruise Holdings 6/16/2013 79

Seven Seas Navigator Prestige Cruise Holdings 12/17/1999 76

 

I did mention the Navigator in a previous post. Do need to correct the 8/1/2001 and 12/17/1999 inspections. On both dates, the Ships, Radisson Seven Seas Mariner and Radisson Navigator were not owned by Prestige Cruise Holdings but were still privately owned by Carlson.

[JMARINER]

I did mention the Navigator in a previous post. Do need to correct the 8/1/2001 and 12/17/1999 inspections. On both dates, the Ships, Radisson Seven Seas Mariner and Radisson Navigator were not owned by Prestige Cruise Holdings but were still privately owned by Carlson.

 

True they were Raddison and they were both a long time ago.

 

As to the 2013 Nav inspection it was discussed on this board at that time. As I wrote back then, I read the report and that inspection was a joke. The things the were marked down for were trivial and had little to do with food safety. Violations tagged as: There was no sign stating to use a paper towel or tissue to open the door when exiting; that a light bulb was too low in brightness;There was one small fruit fly above one pan of brownies on the preparation counter in front of the microwave; A crew toilet door self-closer mechanism didn't fully work. The report read like my DI's white glove inspections from boot camp, no one would have passed. A few weeks later the Nav had 95 on the inspections and most before and since are in the high 90 and a few 100.

 

Every single report is public record.

 

Regent, and all the cruise lines take food safety and public health very seriously. The crews know there are serious consquences for not following the CDC and public health rules.

 

j

[Suite Travels]

First of all Mayo can spoil and some salad dressings left in the heat. Why do they say on containers refrigerate after opening? I was sick on Silversea because of tuna fish being out on a buffet and not chilled properly.

 

I can't speak for Regent as it as been a long time sine we sailed with this line. That being said I can speak for Crystal's food handling. All condiments by the pool are served in Heinz or Dickerson small sealed containers air tight with a seal. Once opened they are disposed of.

 

All the buffets served in the Lido have chillers and counter top chillers and for presentation and fridges underneath the counters for extra replacement items as needed and temperature controlled. This goes for the hot items as well. A great example of this if you wanted the Asian salad or tuna wrap at the pool grill all those items are in a fridge and they are made to order. Nothing heat pershiable stays out. Tempatures are checked very often on the hot and cold items as they should be.

 

A few years back before the new and modern Lido was designed, we had several themed pool buffets that were faboulous. Crystal decided to move them into the new modern Lido after dry dock with state of the art refridge's and hot and cold serving counters. This was to avoid any contamination or spoilage sitting in warm climates on the pool deck.

 

As for the CDC they do spot checks unannounced until just before docking and that includes all the bars and galleys or any food and beverage venues. These inspections come at the last minute for the crew to be aware of. After 24 cruises with Crystal we have never heard of anyone getting food poisoning on the ship.

 

We love to eat off the ship and look for reputable resturants to have lunch or dinner. Why spend all this money to visit places and not try some good,local cuisine.

[Travelcat2]

Suite Travels: Would love your opinion on Norovirus and whether it has anything to do with food poisoning (RachelG, if you are reading this, your medical input would be valuable). A friend of ours was on Crystal during an outbreak and had a miserable time (not surprising - doubt if anyone could enjoy a cruise while sick). Not picking on Crystal as there have been outbreaks of this virus on many cruise lines.

 

Thanks:-)

[OctoberKat]

Mayo left unrefrigerated is not a health risk. Read the facts in this article from the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/health/01real.html?_r=0

Edited February 8, 2015 by OctoberKat

[Travelcat2]

"Facts" are interesting things. While I am not disputing the "fact" linked above, I tried to determine if the storage requirement was the same for restaurants, home use and on cruise ships. I know that cruise ships have some of the strictest requirements anywhere. So, I did a bit of research and found a link to almost everything you need to know about cleanliness, sanitation, food storage, etc. on cruise ships. http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/operationsmanual/opsmanual2011.pdf

 

I also found a 1/8/2009 nbcnews.com article where 340 people were stricken with severe vomiting and diarrhea on the MSC Sinfonia in Rio De Janeiro. Although not conclusive, the agency stated that "an inspection found problems with the amount of chlorine in the ship's drinking water and with the storage of some perishable food items, notably mayonnaise".

 

There are Cruise Critic members that have worked on cruise ships (or currently work on cruise ships). Instead of reading this document, perhaps someone will post specific requirements for storage of mayonnaise on the ship once it has been opened.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Travelcat2

[pingpong1]

OctoberKat - Your referenced article from the NYT (re the "safety" of unrefrigerated mayonnaise) must be coupled with several caveats, along with the "realities" of serving this stuff to the "masses" in a public restaurant or buffet setting. And there are many additional references (found on the internet) that also have to be read, as well, in order to provide a true understanding of the issue.

 

It is true enough that "pure", commercially made Mayo (such as Helman's, Kraft, Best Foods, etc.) which contain a high enough amount of vinegar (as an original manufactured ingredient) gives the product a low enough PH (acid) that it will remain "healthy" (free of harmful bacteria and fit for human consumption) in an unrefrigerated state for an extended period of time.

 

The "warning" on the label, about the need to refrigerate the product after opening, is more about maintaining appearance and taste than of actual "spoilage" or safety/contamination concerns.

 

But here's the problem.....Any "cross-contamination whatsoever" of that original bowl of mayonnaise product by almost any other food particles, such as chicken, potato, tuna, pasta - throws the theoretical "safety" of the unrefrigerated mayo completely out the window. Subway keeps their mayo in closed "squeeze bottles". In their operation, serving and preparation knives, spoons, or spatulas that are used on other ingredients do not come into contact with the unrefrigerated squeeze bottles of mayo. Under those specific and antiseptic conditions, those squeeze bottles of mayo would be "okay" to used and unrefrigerated throughout the day. Are squeeze bottles of mayo used by Regent at their buffets? McDonalds, along with other fast food restaurants offer sealed, individual-serving packets of mayo and other condiments - in order to completely avoid any possible "cross-contamination" issue by multiple customers.

 

As soon as the "safe" mayo is mixed with any other ingredient (and in any amount), such as tuna or chicken salad, potato salad, ham, cheese, lettuce (like things found on a "make it yourself" sandwich bar) or a buffet customer's "dirty knife" dipping into multiple piles of food - including a dish of mayo......the "health clock" immediately starts ticking and that batch of mayo has to be kept cold AND taken out of service in a fairly short period of time.

 

I won't add to the length of this post with the numerous refs which document this (cross-contamination) danger, but they are in plentiful supply on the web. Just remember all the "things" that many of us have seen taking place in buffet lines! Do you want to "bank on" that open dish of mayo at the pool grill being pure and un-contaminated by other "stuff" (like a dirty knife or spoon?) I don't.

 

Thankfully, the US, along with some other countries, try to enforce a regime in their public health protocols of "erring on the side of caution" when it comes to food safety. Also, practices that we might follow in our own private homes and kitchens are not necessarily suitable or safe for use in public establishments. :o Regards.

[Travelcat2]

pingpong1: Thank you for a very informative post!

[OctoberKat]

Yes, of course, pingpong. Appreciate expanding the context.

Edited February 8, 2015 by OctoberKat

[Emperor Norton]

OctoberKat - Your referenced article from the NYT (re the "safety" of unrefrigerated mayonnaise) must be coupled with several caveats, along with the "realities" of serving this stuff to the "masses" in a public restaurant or buffet setting. And there are many additional references (found on the internet) that also have to be read, as well, in order to provide a true understanding of the issue.

 

It is true enough that "pure", commercially made Mayo (such as Helman's, Kraft, Best Foods, etc.) which contain a high enough amount of vinegar (as an original manufactured ingredient) gives the product a low enough PH (acid) that it will remain "healthy" (free of harmful bacteria and fit for human consumption) in an unrefrigerated state for an extended period of time.

 

The "warning" on the label, about the need to refrigerate the product after opening, is more about maintaining appearance and taste than of actual "spoilage" or safety/contamination concerns.

 

But here's the problem.....Any "cross-contamination whatsoever" of that original bowl of mayonnaise product by almost any other food particles, such as chicken, potato, tuna, pasta - throws the theoretical "safety" of the unrefrigerated mayo completely out the window. Subway keeps their mayo in closed "squeeze bottles". In their operation, serving and preparation knives, spoons, or spatulas that are used on other ingredients do not come into contact with the unrefrigerated squeeze bottles of mayo. Under those specific and antiseptic conditions, those squeeze bottles of mayo would be "okay" to used and unrefrigerated throughout the day. Are squeeze bottles of mayo used by Regent at their buffets? McDonalds, along with other fast food restaurants offer sealed, individual-serving packets of mayo and other condiments - in order to completely avoid any possible "cross-contamination" issue by multiple customers.

 

As soon as the "safe" mayo is mixed with any other ingredient (and in any amount), such as tuna or chicken salad, potato salad, ham, cheese, lettuce (like things found on a "make it yourself" sandwich bar) or a buffet customer's "dirty knife" dipping into multiple piles of food - including a dish of mayo......the "health clock" immediately starts ticking and that batch of mayo has to be kept cold AND taken out of service in a fairly short period of time.

 

I won't add to the length of this post with the numerous refs which document this (cross-contamination) danger, but they are in plentiful supply on the web. Just remember all the "things" that many of us have seen taking place in buffet lines! Do you want to "bank on" that open dish of mayo at the pool grill being pure and un-contaminated by other "stuff" (like a dirty knife or spoon?) I don't.

 

Thankfully, the US, along with some other countries, try to enforce a regime in their public health protocols of "erring on the side of caution" when it comes to food safety. Also, practices that we might follow in our own private homes and kitchens are not necessarily suitable or safe for use in public establishments. :o Regards.

 

Further that excludes the people that do things with their fingers or hack up their lungs into the bottle (sadly they plague all cruise lines).

[Suite Travels]

Of course Norovirus has hit every ship at one time or another. The keyboard word is cross contamination. That being said, Mayo and many salad dressings have egg in it. What is the problem of serving individual small jars for your hot dog or burger or anything for that matter the problem is solved. Even refilling ketscup bottles with other bottles is prohibited here in Florida. Some resturants ignore this and don't get caught.

 

We are very OCD when it comes to buffets and food handling hence we avoid them if at all possible. No, I will not be using communal open dish condiments.

[OctoberKat]

Further that excludes the people that do things with their fingers or hack up their lungs into the bottle (sadly they plague all cruise lines).

 

Okie dokie.

[Suite Travels]

More info on Mayo.

 

http://www.doesitgobad.com/does-mayonnaise-go-bad/

 

Sorry not taking my chances after my bout on Silversea.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Suite Travels

[Suite Travels]

OctoberKat - Your referenced article from the NYT (re the "safety" of unrefrigerated mayonnaise) must be coupled with several caveats, along with the "realities" of serving this stuff to the "masses" in a public restaurant or buffet setting. And there are many additional references (found on the internet) that also have to be read, as well, in order to provide a true understanding of the issue.

 

It is true enough that "pure", commercially made Mayo (such as Helman's, Kraft, Best Foods, etc.) which contain a high enough amount of vinegar (as an original manufactured ingredient) gives the product a low enough PH (acid) that it will remain "healthy" (free of harmful bacteria and fit for human consumption) in an unrefrigerated state for an extended period of time.

 

The "warning" on the label, about the need to refrigerate the product after opening, is more about maintaining appearance and taste than of actual "spoilage" or safety/contamination concerns.

 

But here's the problem.....Any "cross-contamination whatsoever" of that original bowl of mayonnaise product by almost any other food particles, such as chicken, potato, tuna, pasta - throws the theoretical "safety" of the unrefrigerated mayo completely out the window. Subway keeps their mayo in closed "squeeze bottles". In their operation, serving and preparation knives, spoons, or spatulas that are used on other ingredients do not come into contact with the unrefrigerated squeeze bottles of mayo. Under those specific and antiseptic conditions, those squeeze bottles of mayo would be "okay" to used and unrefrigerated throughout the day. Are squeeze bottles of mayo used by Regent at their buffets? McDonalds, along with other fast food restaurants offer sealed, individual-serving packets of mayo and other condiments - in order to completely avoid any possible "cross-contamination" issue by multiple customers.

 

As soon as the "safe" mayo is mixed with any other ingredient (and in any amount), such as tuna or chicken salad, potato salad, ham, cheese, lettuce (like things found on a "make it yourself" sandwich bar) or a buffet customer's "dirty knife" dipping into multiple piles of food - including a dish of mayo......the "health clock" immediately starts ticking and that batch of mayo has to be kept cold AND taken out of service in a fairly short period of time.

 

I won't add to the length of this post with the numerous refs which document this (cross-contamination) danger, but they are in plentiful supply on the web. Just remember all the "things" that many of us have seen taking place in buffet lines! Do you want to "bank on" that open dish of mayo at the pool grill being pure and un-contaminated by other "stuff" (like a dirty knife or spoon?) I don't.

 

Thankfully, the US, along with some other countries, try to enforce a regime in their public health protocols of "erring on the side of caution" when it comes to food safety. Also, practices that we might follow in our own private homes and kitchens are not necessarily suitable or safe for use in public establishments. :o Regards.

 

Excellent post and factual. If the condiments were served in sealed jars for personal use unless you share that little jar the problem of cross contamination is solved.

[JMARINER]

.......... If the condiments were served in sealed jars for personal use unless you share that little jar the problem of cross contamination is solved.

It is not the mayonnaise that is (or might be) the problem here. If some other contaminated food comes in contact with the mayo, it is the contaminated food that needs to be addressed, not the mayo. If anything the ph of the mayo will kill the bacteria from the mixed in food.

 

But back to the issue, no one knows if the OP's illness was food related or not. If one thinks that the way the the food is handled doesn't meet their expectations, OK. But don't call it food poisoning unless you know that as a fact, i.e. they did a test. And unless other got sick from the same meal, it is likely the illness had other causes.

 

While dirty utensils might be a vector, Norovirus is not a food caused illness.

 

j

[Suite Travels]

It is not the mayonnaise that is (or might be) the problem here. If some other contaminated food comes in contact with the mayo, it is the contaminated food that needs to be addressed, not the mayo. If anything the ph of the mayo will kill the bacteria from the mixed in food.

 

But back to the issue, no one knows if the OP's illness was food related or not. If one thinks that the way the the food is handled doesn't meet their expectations, OK. But don't call it food poisoning unless you know that as a fact, i.e. they did a test. And unless other got sick from the same meal, it is likely the illness had other causes.

 

While dirty utensils might be a vector, Norovirus is not a food caused illness.

 

j

 

You are correct on many points and I doubt it was Norovirus but I am not a doctor. Many things can cause you to get sick beside food items. On Silversea we knew it was the tuna salad as other guests showed up with the same symptons after eating the same salad. We were not relegated to stay in our suite.

[Les Picantins]

But back to the issue, no one knows if the OP's illness was food related or not. If one thinks that the way the the food is handled doesn't meet their expectations, OK. But don't call it food poisoning unless you know that as a fact, i.e. they did a test. And unless other got sick from the same meal, it is likely the illness had other causes.

 

While dirty utensils might be a vector, Norovirus is not a food caused illness.

 

j

 

It was FOOD POISONING. Immediately after my husband vomited his cajun rubbed flank steak, he was fine. He only took the antibiotics the doctor had given him for one day. By the way, the number one use for this particular antibiotic is food poisoning. You don't treat a virus with antibiotics.

 

Furthermore, during his quarantine, we shared the same water bottle (and other things) and I did not catch Norovirus.

 

The dish in question was served at lunch in the MDR. We were very few that day and there were many options on the menu. Forunately for my fellow pax, that was not a popular item. I strongly suspect that the piece of meat were leftovers from Prime 7. The original meat was probably served from a chafing dish and was therefore kept warm (not hot) during the length of the service. It was then recycled, marinated, and called something else.

 

It was FOOD POISONING.

[Les Picantins]

FYI - If you are ever in a situation like ours, here are some helpful contacts.

 

CDC Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP)

 

vsp@cdc.gov

(954) 356-6650 or

(800) 323-2132

[JMARINER]

FYI - If you are ever in a situation like ours, here are some helpful contacts.

 

CDC Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP)

 

vsp@cdc.gov

(954) 356-6650 or

(800) 323-2132

 

 

What was the result you got from contacting CDC?