Decline in quality??

[elmorejj]

I certainly know the type of pax Rotterdam is refering to. These same pax will be the first in line at the Capts. party, the Mariners party, and the art auctions, all to get the free drinks, but will never purchase one in the lounges............jean :cool:

[Randyk47]

Once ran into a couple who told us they expected their bar bill for the whole 10-day cruise to be less than $50. I asked them how they could possibly do that as I'd seen them in the Crow's Nest every night drinking. Their response...."Sit down here and buy us a drink and we'll explain it to you......" :D

[peaches from georgia]

I certainly know the type of pax Rotterdam is refering to. These same pax will be the first in line at the Capts. party, the Mariners party, and the art auctions, all to get the free drinks, but will never purchase one in the lounges............jean :cool:

AND they will expect HAL or their TA to comp them dinner in the Pinnacle, a couple bottles of wine and maybe a photo. But they are the first ones to complain about not getting a large enough discount on their cabin.

 

Eventually they learn 'you get what you pay for', but everyone suffers when the quality of cruising goes down.

[Rotterdam]

Kyros, I just wanted to reiterate your thought. I'm a recovering alcoholic sober for 25 years and while drinking in my presence is no longer any temptation, I really don't feel compelled to purchase wine for the table and I'd just as soon not get into explaining to tablemates why I don't care for a "drink" nor do I really want to sit around with a group that is drinking, be it social or otherwise. As soon as alcohol enters the picture, the dynamics change. As recovery programs remind people, a "drink" doesn't have to mean alcohol. Isn't soda a drink? Isn't water a drink?

 

As for sitting in the lounges at night and drinking a soda instead of a cocktail or an after-dinner "drink," whose business is it except for anyone but myself. I really don't think anyone on the cruise ship should be made to feel uncomfortable to be constantly pressured to order a "drink."

 

Bob - because someone doesn't drink alcohol doesn't mean they wouldn't be BUYING a beverage. Cruise lines are a for profit business. In the carib I usually don;t drink during the day - on a transatlantic - cockatils start anytime. I live in Manhattan & when I am out of the city & driving a car I do not drink at all ...not even a drop of wine. But I will have a cranberry juice & club soda or Pelligrino water. Congradulations on managing your life in a constructive manner.

 

But the cheapies we are hi-lighting are cheap & tacky on land also.

 

I'm glad others picked up on the wine situation. Believe me the cheapies sail all lines. 2 women on the QE2 sat & drank wine purchased by the other 4 people & never so much bought a soda - they did have casino $$ & bingo $$$ tho. On the 8th day of a 14 day cruise I told the wine steward not to serve them - they got the message & the rest of us enjoyed our wine.

 

This is what is differnt about todays cruising.....

 

Believe me - it doesn't have to be the most expensive bottle or drink...but to be manipulative & without any graciousness is just ignorant.

 

Some days I blame the cruise lines & other days I blame the passengers onboard these days.

[blue whale]

In the spring, we cruised for 54 nights with Radisson Seven Seas on 4 segments of the world cruise. ALL liquor was included—hard liquor in the bars anytime and wine at meals. Soft drinks and bottled water also were included with no charge at all. Now, I do not enjoy alcohol, and I drink soft drinks sparingly because of the calories. Perhaps every third day, I might drink a half of a diet coke. I kept to my routine on Radisson even though everything was included. If you had seen me on another shipping line such as HAL, you might have thought I was not drinking because I was "cheap." Most of the pax were really "enjoying" their liquor, but not I. My husband and I would go to the lounge to dance. I would "order" the best drink in the world on some evenings—iced water. Some would say that I was not getting my money's worth. But some of us who don't drink aboard ship, really don't drink because we really don't enjoy it or we are watching our sugar/calorie intake. Why is that so wrong?

[sail7seas]

Same as food on the ships........some of us don't eat excessively just because 'we want to get our money's worth'. I don't eat very much different than I do at home. The treat of it is that I'm not meal planning, not cooking, serving, washing up.....I'm being served. :) At home, if I want a salad, I make it. If I want a salad on the ship, I'm one who loves that salad bar.

 

(I'm trying to figure out why having a salad bar available is objectionable or 'unclassy'?? Is it because some folks make such a mess of it serving themselves? ---I am missing the point about complaints about a salad bar).

 

 

Hope someone can 'clue me in'.

[kryos]

As for sitting in the lounges at night and drinking a soda instead of a cocktail or an after-dinner "drink," whose business is it except for anyone but myself. I really don't think anyone on the cruise ship should be made to feel uncomfortable to be constantly pressured to order a "drink."

I absolutely agree with you.

 

And as to somebody else's post regarding the "cheapies" that will not buy a drink, but gobble up all the free liquor at the Captain's Reception and whatnot ... believe it or not, I generally order either an orange or a cranberry juice.

 

Congratulations on your sobriety ... you've surmounted quite a hurdle and you're right ... you shouldn't have to explain to anyone.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Another reason why we started getting a table for ourselves some years ago.

We used to enjoy sharing a table of six or eight but each cruise, we enjoyed it less and less. I can't count the times my DH would order wine for the table and most (though not all) would be shocked when offered it to all. They didn't 'get it'.

On my January Caribbean cruise, I shared a table with two other couples (from CC). One of the couples had wine with dinner every night, while the other didn't (nor did I). The first night, the couple that ordered wine offered it freely to their tablemates. We all politely declined. I personally can't stand the taste of wine, the other couple had some medical reason for not partaking of alcohol. Twas no problem ... the one couple enjoyed their libation each night, while the rest of us indulged in iced tea.

 

Now, at home, my 91 year old father has a glass of red wine either with dinner or after his meal just about every night. I just never seemed to acquire the taste for it.

 

To each his own.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Copper10-8]

We always sit at a table for eight and have met some very nice people over the years, some of which we are still in contact with. Having said that, we are also not big wine drinkers. When our past table mates have offered to share their bottle with the table, we have done the same on one of the following evenings as have our other tablemates. Often though (i.e. as recent as three weeks ago), some of our tablemates will order a bottle of wine just for themselves and we will have an ice tea or just a glass of water with dinner. To each his own!

Congrats LauderdaleBob! Awesome!

[sail7seas]

I'm am not talking about people who do not drink for whatever their personal reason and I very mistakenly thought that could be safely assumed. I cannot imagine there is anyone here who expect it is their business to be given an explanation as to why a person does not care to have a drink. I did not specifically say that as I thought it would be ridiculous for anyone to think anyone owed them an explanation. Perhaps I was misaken and should have been sure to clearly state......exception given to those who don't drink. It isn't safe to assume anything.

 

I am talking about people who freely enjoy wine purchased for them but never reciprocate or never buy themselves so much as a glass of wine in a lounge. They obviously like/drink wine but seem to only like it when given to them such as at the Mariners Party when they manage to slurp down as much as possible during the party.

 

These people are (to be kind) rude and excessively frugal. IMO

 

If someone doesn't want to drink, fine!!! No one cares why. I would only care if they drank when others were buying but not when it was their turn to pay.

I hope I have clarified my thoughts and my post is not confusing.

[zlato]

My wife and I have always requested a table of six or eight for dinner because we believe that a valuable segment of cruising involves meeting people from all over the world. We also usually order at least one bottle of Dom Perion (sp?) champagne for our table at the end of the cruise. Our motive is not to try to impress anyone, but we feel that this practice is one way of saying that we had some of the best tablemates on the ship and appreciated their companionship. That being said, I must share the following less than positive experience.

 

On one of our cruises (and on one of the few remaining days of said cruise), my wife and I had ordered a few bottles of Dom Perion(sp?) for our table. As the normal table chatter ensued, one of our tablemates indicated that he & his wife would be touring Cambodia the following year and asked if any of us had any experiences we could share. It turned out that my wife and I were the only people at our table who had completed many previous trips throughout Asia, including Cambodia. As the discussion progressed, it evolved into an examination of the Buddhist philosophy (or religion, depending on your viewpoint). After a very satisifying and challenging conversation, one of our tablemates responsed in a most surprising manner. You need to know that this person had been critical of most everything that moved, smelled, talked, etc.---you know the type; as the revolutionary John Adams said about one of the elegates to the Philadelphia convention of 1787, "he would have been critical of opening up a window on a sultry day!" Obviously, she was on "the dark side" of the table. Anyway, at the end of the discussion, she proudly (and loudly) said: "I wish that all of you would change the topic; Buddhisim is not for everyone and neither is this brand of champagne!" I guess I should have ordered Budweiser for everyone and suggested that we talk about the nuiances of the chicken dance!

[xpcdoojk]

May I suggest that ordering multiple bottles of Dom Perignon at a table for 8 acquaintances may in and of itself intimidate the very people you are trying to impress. I think it is a very nice gesture to offer a bottle of champagne to your table mates, but dropping several hundred dollars worth of obligation on them may turn them from potential friends to people that think you are pretentious snobbish and presumptive. Just a thought from another prospective. Not everyone can or wants to live like a queen.

 

I am not a Mariner yet, so I doubt I will be to a Mariner party on this cruise, but I am sure I will have a glass or two of champagne or Cava or whatever sparkling wine they offer at the Captain's party. Does this make me rude? I will order a bottle or two of wine everynight with dinner. We don't hang out at the casino or the bars on most nights although usually we will go to the disco at least once and drink and dance. We will probably have a cocktail in our cabin before dinner (not smuggled). I don't lay by the pool ordering froo froo drinks with parasols all day. To me alcohol goes best either before during or after a nice meal. If I drink all day, I tend to want to sleep all day, and I don't vacation to sleep. Probably should, but I like to experience my vacations with my eyes wide open. :D ;) Does this make me cheap?

 

I just think some of the things stated in this thread are a tad over the top.

 

jc

[sail7seas]

Of course you would not be considered rude to enjoy a glass or two at the Captain's Welcome Aboard. That is why it is offered; that is why they pass trays of beverages around.

 

We never attend the Captain's Welcome Aboard but we go to the Mariners Parties and always have a glass or two. That is why they offer it.....for their guests to enjoy.

 

We do enjoy cocktails/glasses of wine in Ocean Bar, Explorers Lounge, Casino Bar, Dolphin Bar, CrowsNest.....hmmm, which bar did I forget? We always enjoy wine with our dinner in the dining room.

 

 

I think we all know the difference between someone who rushes into every venue where they are pouring a free drink and they pronounces themselves non-drinkers at every venue where one has to purchase their own beverage.......or horror of horrors, actually offer a new friend a drink.

 

We don't have to go to a cruise ship to see this 'phenomenom'.....we see it on land as well, don't we?

 

I never have a drink during the day at the pool. Once in a huge while, I might have a diet coke but 90% of the time it's iced water and the stewards always bring me a fresh one every time I'm at the pool. The first day I come out and meet and greet them. I request a glass of water and everyday thereafter they remember that is what I like and they bring it to me most of the time without my ever asking again.

 

Why do they remember? Why do they remember me and what I like? Might have something to the appropriate way my DH and I thank them with sincerity and in the 'traditional way'.

 

That same wonderful memory that helps them remember your name each time you appear in Lido, or from cruise to cruise.....is the same wonderful memory that helps them remember who was good to them/nice to them and who was not.

[Rotterdam]

Sail7Seas -

 

You got it!

 

Cheers

[HeatherInFlorida]

I promise to tred carefully because some very interesting thoughts have been expressed here that usually bring out a lot of criticism from the corners. I don't want to be the one to upset the applecart so I will simply say that I agree with so much of what I have read on this thread.

 

We've been cruising since about 1980 and have seen the changes that have transpired in every way over the years. But back in the 80's much more was included in the cruise fare. They now charge less and include less. So that is worth mentioning. Also, drinks were unbelievably low priced back then. In fact we used to joke about it ... drinks were a lot less than in a restaurant or bar in Manhattan.

 

I do have a question about etiquette (I'm from the Emily Post school so am not entirely up to date;) ). My husband and I do not drink at all. We usually sit at a large table and often someone will buy a bottle of wine for the table and of course we politely decline. Would we still be expected to buy a bottle of wine for the table one night? We might be so inclined if we've become friendly and just want to do it as a gesture, but otherwise I wouldn't think it was necessary. Interested in thoughts on this. Thanks!:)

[TidePrideGA]

I'm in a brave mood, so I'll be the first to jump in on this. Although I've never cruised, I am well acquainted with society's mores and modern day etiquette. My opinion on this is that no, you are not required to return a favor that was offered but politely declined. If you don't "use" it you don't have to "replace" it. As you say, if you feel inclined to make a like gesture, go for it... but you needn't feel obligated.

 

I also agree with a previous poster that one can go overboard with these gestures. It is unfair to lavishly bestow luxuriant top-end "favors" on a table and expect others to return in kind. In this situation (the Dom Perignon), I would be forced to decline the favor (although champagne is actually my everyday drink of choice and I would enjoy partaking) because I would not be inclined to return it in kind. A nice Moet & Chandon is more to my lifestyle... and to my budget. While I enjoy Dom, I don't find the difference in a Moet and a Dom to be worth the difference in expenditure.

 

Just my $0.02 on a Friday afternoon....

[Rotterdam]

Heather -

 

I do not think any reasonable person with disagree with your belief.

 

 

As I stated the women on the QE2 certainly could afford to buy a bottle of wine, did indeed accept others generosity & yet never reciprocated. I cut them off when I was ordering another bottle & one of them said - I want what we had the other nite! I then told the waiter to bring 2 fewer glasses. They got the point & the rest of the cruise was not a problem.

 

I've seen people load plates up with food at the buffets like it was their last meal. Main reason why I don't like the buffets is all the pushing & shoving BY THE PASSENGERS. The children that are allowed to run wild is crazy. firstly for safety reasons. Years ago I never saw this(& I was taught how to behave at dinner tables etc - some places are not appropriate for children). Never mind who to blame - thats another can of worms.

 

It just seems these days there are more of the cheapies & swindlers onboard.

 

I'll say it again - whatever happened to class. Royal Viking had it!

[JoyAnn]

I am allergic to alcohol and hubby doesn't like to drink very often. I usually take the OJ or whatever else they offer (besides soda) that they offer at those parties.

 

HAL doesn't make any money off us on booze, but I do order a virgin mary or a pina not-colada from time to time at dinner.

 

I absolutely agree with you.

 

And as to somebody else's post regarding the "cheapies" that will not buy a drink, but gobble up all the free liquor at the Captain's Reception and whatnot ... believe it or not, I generally order either an orange or a cranberry juice.

 

Congratulations on your sobriety ... you've surmounted quite a hurdle and you're right ... you shouldn't have to explain to anyone.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Copper10-8]

Rotterdam, good post!

 

What's happening? It's called the times are changing and so are people's values and ethics!

 

I see it at work on a daily basis - look at the differences between generations: baby boomers, generation X, generation Y, generation Me! Stand by!

 

[xpcdoojk]

I'm in a brave mood, so I'll be the first to jump in on this. Although I've never cruised, I am well acquainted with society's mores and modern day etiquette. My opinion on this is that no, you are not required to return a favor that was offered but politely declined. If you don't "use" it you don't have to "replace" it. As you say, if you feel inclined to make a like gesture, go for it... but you needn't feel obligated.

 

I also agree with a previous poster that one can go overboard with these gestures. It is unfair to lavishly bestow luxuriant top-end "favors" on a table and expect others to return in kind. In this situation (the Dom Perignon), I would be forced to decline the favor (although champagne is actually my everyday drink of choice and I would enjoy partaking) because I would not be inclined to return it in kind. A nice Moet & Chandon is more to my lifestyle... and to my budget. While I enjoy Dom, I don't find the difference in a Moet and a Dom to be worth the difference in expenditure.

 

Just my $0.02 on a Friday afternoon....

 

I would agree with this post 100%. I wouldn't hesitate to buy friends a round of drinks or bottles of wine, but I just think it is over the top to buy strangers lavish drinks and expect them to reciprocate. I do agree with Rotterdam on one thing, though. That the ladies at his table on the QE2 are without class. However the message of reduced glasses wouldn't be the way I would handle the situation, as I can't help but think that it affected the table dynamics in any but a negative way. JMHO and YMMV.

 

jc

[TidePrideGA]

There appears to be an undertone of class discrimination in this thread (although that may certainly be unintentional)... but I'm not sure this is a class distinction. I would imagine most of us have encountered these type of folks across the spectrum - I know I have. The "takers".

 

Using Rotterdam's example, it makes one wonder. Was the cheekiness of the lady who *presumed* to try to tell Rotterdam how and what to order - while never offering to buy herself - rudeness or thoughtlessness? IOW, did she just never stop to think through her attitude and realize how ridiculous it was?

 

Rotterdam makes the comment

It just seems these days there are more of the cheapies & swindlers onboard.

I don't think there's more onboard - I think there's just MORE, period. Unfortunately, etiquette and consideration for others would appear to be a dying art. The X and Y generations don't call their elders Mr. and Mrs. anymore - they call everyone by their first names. They are not drilled in "yes, sir" and "please".

 

Sigh. I really *must* be getting old - it would seem I have started pining for the "good old days".

[JoyAnn]

Hey, I was shoved into the back of an already over-crowded elevator by a bunch of very impatient, rude seniors on one cruise, despite protests that the car was too full, to please wait for the next car.

 

There appears to be an undertone of class discrimination in this thread (although that may certainly be unintentional)... but I'm not sure this is a class distinction. I would imagine most of us have encountered these type of folks across the spectrum - I know I have. The "takers".

 

Using Rotterdam's example, it makes one wonder. Was the cheekiness of the lady who *presumed* to try to tell Rotterdam how and what to order - while never offering to buy herself - rudeness or thoughtlessness? IOW, did she just never stop to think through her attitude and realize how ridiculous it was?

 

Rotterdam makes the comment I don't think there's more onboard - I think there's just MORE, period. Unfortunately, etiquette and consideration for others would appear to be a dying art. The X and Y generations don't call their elders Mr. and Mrs. anymore - they call everyone by their first names. They are not drilled in "yes, sir" and "please".

 

Sigh. I really *must* be getting old - it would seem I have started pining for the "good old days".

[RevNeal]

On the Statendam in 2002 we had a senior Vice President for American Airlines, and his wife, at our table of 8. Every night the Wine steward came to him first and he always ordered a bottle of wine for the table. This began our first night out from San Diego, and continued each night of the cruise. They were a great couple ... indeed, everyone at that table was ... but it made it difficult to share around. Not only that, but it made it difficult to use our own wine packages!

 

After the second night I told Christopher to just order wine bottles from our package and we would share it around the table, too. So, we did, and so did the other couples, and it soon turned out that we usually had 2 or 3 bottles in use at our table at any one time ... each night we all had a wide assortment of wines in front of us! One of the tables next to ours remarked that our dinners were like a wine-tasting event. And, I must admit, by the time we got back to San Diego (15 days later) we must have sampled a goodly percentage of the different kinds of wines on the ship and I had learned a lot more about wines than I had known when I came aboard.

 

Some at our table were heavy drinkers, others were not. Christopher and "American Airlines" seemed to be in a contest to see how many glasses they could have in front of them ... :) Me ... I enjoyed a glass from each bottle, and watch the fun beyond that.

 

We've kept in contact with those wonderful people, and once we nearly ended up on another cruise with "American Airlines" and his wife, but all of our schedules are so busy that it simply is unlikely we'll ever meet any of them again.

[sail7seas]

. Unfortunately, etiquette and consideration for others would appear to be a dying art. The X and Y generations don't call their elders Mr. and Mrs. anymore - they call everyone by their first names. They are not drilled in "yes, sir" and "please".

 

".

 

One of my pet peeves in life.

 

When a twenty something year old looks at my charge card name, my check I've written at a register, someone calling to sell me something and calling me............

"Jane"......in place of Mrs. Doe, Ms. Doe......

 

What is with Jane? That girl at the register is not my friend. Wasn't she taught any courtesy? I really, really dislike that familiarity. It's rude and unprofessional IMO

[RevNeal]

What is with Jane? That girl at the register is not my friend. Wasn't she taught any courtesy? I really, really dislike that familiarity. It's rude and unprofessional IMO

 

Mrs. Seas, ;)

 

While I agree with you, nevertheless many of the younger people in the service industry are being taught to do this ... they are being told that being "personal" in that way is positive, and that people want to be addressed in this way. It adds that "personal, familiar, friendly touch that puts the customer at ease."

 

They have even pushed this approach on those clergy who are currently coming out of seminary -- I'm told that they're being taught to address each person by their first name when they come forward to receive Holy Communion -- e.g. "Sail, the Body of Christ, broken for you." Contrary to this, I was taught to simply say: "The Body of Christ, broken for you." Not long ago I was informed by my Pastor-Parish Relations Committee that one of our 20-something church members had complained that I wasn't very friendly, and was too formal, because I wouldn't address him by first name when he came down for Communion. One can't win for losing.