Prinsendam's Fate???

[Krazy Kruizers]

I was reading an article from a cruise forum that sends me e-mails. One of the items discussed was that Radisson Seven Seas is looking at the Prinsendam. That was all the article said.

Anyone have any information on this?

[KAKcruiser]

I read this article, also. I had heard that the Prinsendam was for sale but don't have any further information.

[bookworm0911]

I would much rather HAL was moving in the direction of the Radisson cruise experience rather than selling off its smallest ship, one that would fit in with the Radisson style. Every move HAL makes now seems to shift its cruise style in the other direction. :o

[Krazy Kruizers]

I think it was back in July when several people here mentioned that a cruise they had booked on her had been cancelled and they all got their money back. There was speculation then that she might be up for sale. Then suddenly no one mentioned her anymore.

[kruzkeen]

After I read last week that Amsterdam would again be used for the World Cruise in 2007: http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1376

I wondered about how Prinsedam would be deployed. I hoped that it might be for shorter one of a kind cruises off the beaten track.

[Grumpy1]

The Prinsendam is scheduled for HAL cruises through April of 2007. I posted the itenerary for the 2 Grand Voyages of about 2 months each that will compliment the Amsterdam Grand World Voyage

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=207955

 

has the iteneraries for Prinsendam and Amsterdam

 

Pricing is supposed to be available very soon.

 

Now, having said that, everything in this world is available for a price. If Raddisson wants Prinsendam bad enough and is willing to pony up the dollars, I'm sure the people at HAL would sell. By the way, there were rumors just like this circulating one year ago, with someone "in the industry and in the know" swearing it was a done deal.

[sail7seas]

I agree that when I saw Amsterdam was again doing the World Cruise, I wondered about Prinsendam. The last time Amsterdam did WC, there were A LOT of empty cabins. We had been on for Christmas and New Years back-to-back and disembarked the day WC boarded.......They were sending crew off the ship as they didn't need them all.

 

So.....makes one wonder about the future of Prinsendam.

[Grumpy1]

Also look at jHannah's chat with the captain on the prinsendam a few days ago on this thread: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=223040&page=3 post 56.

 

Sail, the last time Amsterdam did the WC, was the first WC after 9/11. A lot of ships sailed nearly empty at that time. But after the Prinsendam sailed nearly full the last couple of years, and is booking strong for next year, the decision was made to move to a ship that could accomodate the demand and use the Prinsendam for Grand Voyages of approximately 2 months duration with shorter segments that will compliment the Amsterdam's GWVoyage.

[Rotterdam]

Grumpy - do you think passengers looking to book a WC would skip over HAL if Prinsendam was not an option? Amsterdam is a lovelt ship but very much different than your Slinkiedam!

 

Many long term QE2 WC passengers say they wouldn't sail QM2.

 

Hope all is well w/ you & the Mrs!

[Grumpy1]

Good question, Rotterdam. While on the 2005 World Tour, we were given an information packet about the possibility of the 2007 World Tour being on the Amsterdam and comments were solicited. The response must have been fairly positive. We talked to quite a few people that had been on World Tours in the past, including ones that had been on Amsterdam. I don't recall that there were any that stated they absolutely would not cruise on the Amsterdam, although many expressed a preference for the Prinsendam or similar sized ship. There were also some that were happy to hear that Amsterdam would be doing World Tours again as they preferred her over Prinsendam.

 

I don't think the cruising experience will be that much different, after all, the increase is less than double the Prinsendam. Now if it were announced that a Vista Class was going to do the World Tour, there would probably be a mass exodus to other lines with smaller ships. But then there would also be an influx of the "I just love Vista Class and now I can do a World Tour on one" crowd. Personally, I'd be in the former group.

 

I would do a World Tour on Amsterdam, but really prefer the intimacy of Prinsendam.

[dougnewmanatsea]

I would consider a sale of PRINSENDAM to RSSC very unlikely. Personally, I feel that most of RSSC's passengers would be pretty sorely disappointed in her... Ship too old, cabins too small, not enough balconies...

 

I can confirm that as of a few months ago (last winter I think - will have to check), she was most certainlyfor sale. Whether she is still available, I do not know. Of course, any ship is for sale at the right price - but when I say "for sale", I mean that HAL were actively promoting her to potential buyers with every intention of selling the ship.

 

As I said, I cannot say whether this is or is not still the case, but there is no doubt at all that at one point Carnival were actively trying to sell the ship. It is possible that this has since been decided against, but then it is also very possible that they are still trying to get rid of her.

 

The fact that she is scheduled through early 2007 means little. Early 2007 is not that much over a year away and it is quite possible that if she were sold, HAL would keep her on until the completion of her present program.

 

That said I am inclined to take this rumor skeptically only because I do not view this ship and RSSC as a good fit. In fact I think it would be a disaster. She no longer reflects the desires of the market that they are playing in and would become the instant "black sheep" of the RSSC fleet.

 

Now, as for potential buyers: the three that instantly come to mind are Oceania, Fred. Olsen, and Saga. There is also probably a slight possibility that she could stay within Carnival and go to Swan Hellenic, a brand which has been characterized by Carnival as a "growth opportunity" but "likely to stay with one ship for now".

 

So, in the end, I think she will go sooner or later. It may be later, as obviously nobody is beating down Carnival's door to buy this ship and Carnival's reputation is not one of letting things go cheaply... So the prospects for selling her are not necessarily great. But I do not think that this is a ship that has a long-term future with HAL or any other Carnival brand. In fact I think there is probably only one cruise line in the whole world that she would fit really well at, and that is Saga. Other than that, the market segment for which she was designed has literally vanished and HAL are not the first company that have had a bit of a hard time trying to fit this square peg of a ship into a round hole.

 

So while personally I hope they keep her for years to come, I would consider it only a matter of how much they want to get rid of her... Not whether they want to get rid of her. That, I think, has already been established.

[Grumpy1]

When discussing the Prinsendam, it seems that there is always mention of how she "fits in" with the other ships in the line. She didn't "fit" at Royal Viking or at Seaborne because she was a different size than the other ships in the fleet. Now, people say she doesn't "fit" HAL because she is too small. But everyone seems to ignore the fact that she has a very loyal following that keeps coming back year after year, regardless of the flag she flies, and others, such as myself, that consider her to be just the right size.

 

If the corporate goal is to only run "cookie cutter" cruises, with the same itenerary being repeated time after time, Prinsendam is too small. But if the corporate goal is to provide a wide variety of cruising experiences, then there is a place for Prinsendam. HAL has wisely split the marketing for long cruises away from the marketing for mass market short cruises. Properly maintained and marketed, the Prinsendam should still be a good fit in the HAL stable. There are ports and iteneraries she can do that the larger ships cannot do. The downside is that it is probably more costly, per passenger day, to operate than the larger ships. Again, that is a marketing problem, not a matter of "fit". If marketing can continue to find the passengers that will pay a little more for the itenerary and ambience of the Prinsendam, why let her go?

 

Think of Carnival Corp as the General Motors of cruising. Carnival is the Chevrolet division, HAL is the Buick. They both offer a lot of different products within their division, because one size doesn't fit all, and there are different needs at different times. I might want a Buick sport utility at times, at other times, I need a Park Avenue, but I would prefer to stay with Buick if they offer what I want. I don't want a Chevrolet! How well you can market the choices within the line is the key.

 

Uh oh, on re-reading this, I've sure ticked off a bunch of diehard Chevy fans... I'd better duck...

[KAKcruiser]

For some reason the 16 day Orinoco cruise in December 2006 was cancelled. After a couple of months, I finally got the information that a 10 day Caribbean cruise on December 3, 2006 was substituted. Then the Prinsendam will go to drydock before the holiday cruises.

[Normandie-BCN]

Pullmantur of Spain has retourned the Nautica to Oceania and must be looking for a substitute. The Prinsendam could be a good substitute.

[Rotterdam]

I too am a fan of the Prinsendam(aka Slinkiedam). Businesses today are strictly run on a bottom line basis only. Therefore the cookie cutter approach to Carnivore ships. How this affects Prinsendam is that most likely she will be shoved off to another line as soon as Carnivore finds a buyer with enough cash(sorry no discounts).

 

Prinsendam was built in the "tween" years much like the Royal Princess. Both are well built ships with features of old mixed with the then modern advances. Prinsendam is the more luxuruy driven ship & it shows. The size of the cabins & public rooms, low passenger compliment & ability to sail the 7 seas. Both ships have VERY loyal followers & yet both ships are treated as step-children.

 

Thankfully there is Oceana - with midsize ships -unfortunately not as graceful as Prinsendam(speaking of which when we sailed into Barcelona on Prinsendam, docked next to us was the old Home Lines Oceanic - Oceanic was so much more graceful lookig - without the condo look. Oceanic was built in the 1960's & still looks modern. So as cruising changed the beautyof the ships themselves have decreased.

 

In between the Joe Farcus horror decors & the cookie cutter aproach to ship building by the Carnivore parent company - Prinsendam stands out as probably the last of the late 20th century luxury cruise ships with class, grace and amenities that soothed, excite & kept passengers wanting to come back to - either from port or another cruise. Oh the diningroom, the promenade deck , aft pool. Thats why I sailed on her before she's gone!

[Grumpy1]

The summer 2007 sailings for Prinsendam are being worked out at the present time. (and they do not involve sailing under a new flag).

 

Although there are many things that Corporate Carnival can do to cut costs using ecomomy of scale, I think everyone should note that each line is still a separate corporation under the Corporate Carnival umbrella. The "powers that be" are smart enough to know that one line cannot be all things to all cruisers, and as long as each subsidiary performs well on it's own, Corporate Carnival let's them operate in a fairly independent manner.

 

HAL has spent many millions on the Prinsendam since acquiring her. They have completed all of the SOE that is possible given the size and layout of the ship, and continue to spend millions on her. If they really wanted to get rid of her, they would be doing necessary maintenance and little more. Any other line that would acquire her would want to make changes to put their own identity on her, so it's doubtful that all of the changes HAL is making would be returned dollar for dollar in a sale.

[Rotterdam]

Grumpy - I have sailed with HAL since 1976 & the changes are as vast as nite & day. The declne in quality in the product was quite noticeable after Carnivore took over. Reduction in staff & quality of food were both greatly affected by the buyout.

 

As one Captain told me - HAL intended to keep a seperate identity & being in Seattle helped a great deal. True Carnivore's vast cash stockpile helped HAL get through to today. But certainly what is advertised is not what is delivered & the stress of service is seen in the crews onboard. They smile etc & try their best, but it is a far cry from what existed on Rotterdam V or the Statendam, Volendam & Veendam of the early 1980's.

 

The new Noordam that is to sail this February is just another Carnivore duplicate.

 

Prinsendam stands out for her physical features & engineering / design. Even the crew that I spoke with said they prefer to work on Prinsendam instead of one of the newer ships.

 

One other change is that years ago the officers were out & about & very accessible - other than the B&W Ball & Captains dinners they were no where to be seen on the 14 day transatlantic cruise in May- when I asked an officer about this he said - that all changed due to Carnivore management.

 

I miss having drinks after dinner with the Captain & his staff(other than invites) on a casual basis in the Ocean Bar etc.

 

The lines may be seperate but a(newer) Costa ship is no different than a HAL, Carnivore, or a soon to be finished Cunard ship. The morph continues & no sign of another Prinsendam is in Carnivoire site!

 

Respectfully......(thank goodness we have Stephen Card to paint those beautiful paintings of those great liners).

[REP]

The change in the Prinsendam itinerary Dec 06/06 - 16 day cruise to Dec 02/06 10 day is very interesting. We are booked on the original cruise with HAL - they have made no effort to contact us about the change. I have left it, as we have a sizeable shipboard credit that might have to be transferred, and it is so far in the future, it is interesting to see what unfolds. Most internet cruise brokers still do not show either the original 16 day or the 10 day cruise as being available???

 

Does anyone know what HAL's policy might be when they change a scheduled cruise - do they notify us, or is it up to us to go to them(as with a drop in cruise price)? The only thing the same about this one is the ship.

[Rotterdam]

Rep brings up an interesting point - as in the past cruise lines continue to accept deposits for cruises that MIGHT sail.

 

This covers the cruise line's investment & lets them invest passengers deposit dollars, in some cases for a very long period of time. Who knows whether a ship will be sold or not at any point in time - everything has its price & profitability line.

 

In the event of a sale & cancellation of a cruise , the displacement of passengers is easily remedied with onboard credits & upgrades. Its called business.

[KAKcruiser]

REP, I don't know why you haven't been contacted. Probably it is a slip-up somewhere. I am sure the price would be cheaper for a 10 day cruise than a 16 day cruise. You are probably paying too much. I would contact HAL and at least get a price adjustment.