Does the $12.95/day auto-tip ALL goto staff?

[maywell]

I have directed complaints at NCL. They do not care and they do not listen. In the thread asking if I would remove DSC all I said was that with all the additional service fees NCL is charging, I will be very mindful of receiving great service and I will be much less tolerant of poor service. NCL are raising MY expectations as to the service I should expect.

 

In the end, *IF* I find the need to reduce (though probably never remove) DSC (poor service, onboard management ineffective at resolving service problems) that is an option provided by NCL and I would still be working within the framework of their rules. And I would not feel guilty because I would still be providing cash to those who provide great service. Just how it should be; the customer choosing who receives the biggest reward for services based on the quality of that service.

You do what you think is best and while at find a cruise line that fits with your philosophy because its clear NCL is not that company. And have a blessed wonderful day. *rolleyes*

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

[pieshops]

Why don't you stop calling people scummy? First of all, NCL gives people the option what to do. Can't be wrong for selecting any of the options. Secondly, NCL clearly state that not all of the DSC goes directly to crew as payment. No one is taking anything out on the crew by tipping directly with cash. You are severely misguided and you are not gaining support by calling people insulting names either.

\

:

 

I guess you are not very good at math if there are 1000 people on the ship and all pay 1 dollar to the DSC, the crew get 1000 dollars. If those same people reduce their DSC to 50 cents then the crew gets 500 dollars. and in addition if you then give tips to one or more person in cash they are not giving it to everyone else so yes everybody does get less.

 

As far as the 100 percent to the crew, nobody has ever said it is given in payment to the crew 100 percent. If some is given as bonus or some used for a party or something else it is still going to the crew.

[LMaxwell]

You do what you think is best and while at find a cruise line that fits with your philosophy because its clear NCL is not that company. And have a blessed wonderful day. *rolleyes*

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

 

Don't worry about what company I give my money to. "MYOB".

 

Save your "Blessings" for third world citizens that you clearly feel are beneath you.

[LMaxwell]

Everyone on this thread agrees that $12.95 charge per day does NOT all go the staff, which was the OP's question. I am sure the crew appreciate their tips being taken in exchange for cake. They can deposit a cake at any bank. :rolleyes:

[AEckhardt]

Just like reducing the DSC, being spiteful is an option, but it only hurts the wrong people in the end.

[LMaxwell]

Everyone on this thread agrees that $12.95 charge per day does NOT all go the staff, which was the OP's question. I am sure the crew appreciate their tips being taken in exchange for cake. They can deposit a cake at any bank. :rolleyes:

 

Just like reducing the DSC, being spiteful is an option, but it only hurts the wrong people in the end.

 

This is not about spite at all. See above for the accurate answer to OP.

[AEckhardt]

This is not about spite at all. See above for the accurate answer to OP.

 

 

Yes, I've answered the OPs direct question to the best of my ability, but when people give their reasons for reducing said DSC, it tends to lean towards spite.

[punkincc]

Everyone on this thread agrees that $12.95 charge per day does NOT all go the staff, which was the OP's question. I am sure the crew appreciate their tips being taken in exchange for cake. They can deposit a cake at any bank. :rolleyes:

 

Speak for yourself. I believe it does 100% go to the staff, in the form of a portion of salary, or as periodic bonuses or in the form of "crew welfare" such as parties. I have no reason to believe it does not. And I do absolutely believe that those staff events which are funded by the DSC are probably very important to the staff. If you worked 12 or more hour days 7 days a week for months and could not get away, those fun times would be very valuable to you.

Edited April 1, 2015 by punkincc

[LMaxwell]

Speak for yourself. I believe it does 100% go to the staff, in the form of a portion of salary, or as periodic bonuses or in the form of "crew welfare" such as parties. I have no reason to believe it does not.

 

Read the guest ticket contract and also see replies from former NCL staff that post to this board. NCL keep a portion based on their own performance metrics. It is clear as day. If staff do not meet certain metrics they do not receive their full share of the pool. That being true, NCL must be keeping some.

 

In all other companies I know of, bonuses, parties, and anything welfare related for staff are paid by the company from revenue, they are not allowed to steal worker tips and decide if they want to hand it out and how much. That is wage theft. If you take someones tips and give them less than you take, or give them a substitute without financial benefit to the recipient, you are by definition NOT giving them ALL of what was collected.

 

NCL clearly explain this but you are choosing to not accept what NCL says. These are not my opinions, they are facts based on what NCL says.

[pieshops]

Everyone on this thread agrees that $12.95 charge per day does NOT all go the staff, which was the OP's question. I am sure the crew appreciate their tips being taken in exchange for cake. They can deposit a cake at any bank. :rolleyes:

and i would think that everyone on this thread thinks they should be able to cruise for free for life just for being an awesome person but that does not make it happen

[AEckhardt]

Lol, just because they distribute based on performance does not mean they do not distribute it all! It means some get a little, some gets a lot. If I helped my mom make a pie, she might give me a bigger piece. If my brother sat and watched, he might get a smaller piece, but the whole family eats the pie. the remainder of my brothers "potential" piece doesn't get uneaten or hoarded. It's all dished out.

 

NCLs wording does not CLEARLY mean they keep whatever their employees do not earn.

[maywell]

Don't worry about what company I give my money to. "MYOB".

 

Save your "Blessings" for third world citizens that you clearly feel are beneath you.

 

When you posted on these forums, you pretty much let everyone know your 'business'; those that want to respond can. Don't want people telling you thier opinion(s) of your point view - don't post.

 

No, I don't see the NCL as beneath me - I not going to tell them how to do thier jobs nor give them hard time while doing it, like you seem to want to do. I have no issues paying my DSC to their pool and letting them figure out who gets what out of it since its out of my hands plus they work hard to make one's vacation enjoyable.

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

[LMaxwell]

I have no issues paying my DSC to their pool and letting them figure out who gets what out of it since its out of my hands plus they work hard to make one's vacation enjoyable.

 

Curious here; with all these recent increases in fees and new fees for services as well, do you have a higher expectation for service levels than you did prior to the increases or do you expect services to remain the same despite the increased charges?

[shealea]

I don't see any problem at all with us being able to know EXACTLY where and to who our $12.95 is going and how it is split. I think we have every right to know that! It's our money we are paying out. I want to know how my money is used and given out and divided up.

[AEckhardt]

I don't see any problem at all with us being able to know EXACTLY where and to who our $12.95 is going and how it is split. I think we have every right to know that! It's our money we are paying out. I want to know how my money is used and given out and divided up.

 

 

Would you like a spreadsheet at the end of your cruise to see what staff has earned what portion? It's not divided up equally each cruise. It's not "each steward receives $3.05, each waiter receives $4.95, etc" Although I have seen it listed on some other cruise site ( Disney, maybe?) that's apparently not how NCL factors things. They have stated it is for bonuses, incentives, and "crew welfare" aka moral. Do you want an absurd breakdown that varies week to week emailed to you after the fact? I don't see that happening.

 

"Your money" also pays for your cabin. You could have paid $400 more than the guy next to you in the same category. Do you ask where "your money" went to then?

 

Sure, "that" money went into NCLs pocket, but their contract tells you the DSC goes to their crew in several forms. I think that's all you need to know. Where they keep it separate from the actual fare, I believe it is for tax or some other legal purpose. They would be under some requirement to uphold what they say.

Edited April 1, 2015 by AEckhardt

[maywell]

Curious here; with all these recent increases in fees and new fees for services as well, do you have a higher expectation for service levels than you did prior to the increases or do you expect services to remain the same despite the increased charges?

 

I expect it to be the same and even better for majority of the complimentary services because they already do a good to excellent job, anyway. Since, I not going use to room service again or dining often at the specialty restaurants, I'm not incurring additional costs for stuff that already satisfactory or better at DSC-covered locations (Buffet, O'Sheenan's, &/or MDRs).

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

[Snowrose]

One of the reviews here on Cruise Critic that discusses DSCs gave a 2011 breakdown (on RCCL, I think) of, for every $10 on the DSC there was $4 split between service desk personnel and laundry. The other $6 was split between waitstaff and the room stewards/assistant stewards.

 

It makes sense that those who interact with the customers are those that receive incentives from the DSC. (Although a welfare fund - perhaps sending someone home if there's an illness or death in the family - should probably potentially be shared by all.)

Edited April 1, 2015 by Snowrose

[chengkp75]

Okay, I try my best to avoid tipping threads, and probably won't be back to debate this, since I'm headed back to sea, so I'll just put my view out there for others to shred.

 

Everyone seems to be mainly motivated over an increase in DSC, the increase in drink and specialty restaurant gratuity, and the room service charge. In my opinion, this is NCL's model for keeping profits up while keeping fares down. RCI has increased gratuities, and has stated that they won't be discounting fares to fill the ship. That is a different model. Which will work better? Time will tell.

 

Now, I can't be certain, but I believe that both ohionclcruiser and pieshops worked for NCL in Hawaii on the US flag ships, so there is some disconnect there as the labor laws are totally different for US crews to international crews.

 

Actually, NCL has no problem with a guest adjusting the DSC, they just wish that you would specify what your reason is for your dissatisfaction with the service, and if there was a particular crewmember who did not provide adequate service. If those things are noted at the time of DSC adjustment, the crew that failed to perform will lose their portion of your DSC, while the other crew who did perform will receive their normal share.

 

Someone brought up the "I asked my steward" thing. First off, crew are seriously discouraged from talking salary with guests, secondly given the changes in wage structure resulting from the MLC 2006 labor convention, the crew are most likely told that their wage is in the form of wage and "incentive" without mention of the DSC, and thirdly as I've stated before, did the turkey ever ask for Thanksgiving to be a holiday? There might be some vested interest in the crew's answers.

 

Now, for LMaxwell:

 

Quote:

 

In NCL's guest ticket contract it pretty clearly spells out that NO, the entire DSC does not go to the staff.

 

-First, some portion is deducted to go into a general crew welfare fund. Percentage unknown.

 

-Secondly, NCL state that they have their own performance metrics for staff to meet and it is NCL's sole discretion how much of the remaining pile someone gets based on those internal metrics.

 

Here is the NCL guest ticket contract. Page 2. Section 3C.

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/fil...ct_03_2014.pdf

 

 

The real question - Why are people vital to hotel operations, yet are NOT guest facing, such as people in laundry services, being made to be dependent on a discretionary service charge when they never see a single guest? Before this auto-tip stuff no one ever suggested to tip them, because they earned a wage commensurate with their job.

Unquote

 

Where in your restatement of NCL's policy does it say that all of the DSC does not go to the crew? Yes, a portion goes to crew welfare which benefits the crew. Second, the remainder is divided by NCL's metrics as to how much someone gets, not how much the crew gets. If someone fails to perform, they will get a reduced percentage, while the others may get more, or get the normal distribution. Why do they include back of house employees in this incentive program? Because they are trying to build a team effort for guest service, and if the laundry crew do not do a good job in taking stained or ripped towels out of service before they get to the steward, then the guest who receives them will fault the steward, not the laundry person.

 

Next you claim that staffing levels have dropped. Do you have statistics or evidence of this? Then you claim that wages dropped since auto-tipping started. Evidence? Statistics?

 

Yes, NCL will take a float on pre-paid DSC, nothing wrong with that. Next you say that DSC paid onboard is held for weeks or months? Again, evidence of this? Removals of DSC are looked at onboard at the weekly revenue meeting, and as pieshops has stated, the DSC for each crewmember is adjusted weekly based on DSC adjustments for that week, and paid bi-weekly. That is fact.

 

And finally, with regards to tip-guilt. You are describing the service industry attitude in the US when you speak of restaurant staff expecting 20%. As you say, you are basing this on web forums for restaurant workers, and how many of them are from overseas? Service industry workers from other countries, like the international crew, don't have the sense of entitlement that US workers do. Why punish these workers for the attitudes of people in your own country?

 

Now, Rochelle s. First you say that nothing is said about how much the crew is paid, and imply that this is unimportant to the issue, and then mention a gross figure for DSC and imply that this is excessive. Since you bring this up, I will mention how much these people make. Per the MLC 2006 international labor convention, the minimum wage for a seafarer for a 40 hour week is $585 per month. That's about $3.65/hour. There is additional wage for hours over 40 hours, but that may or may not be at a higher rate, depending on the employee's contract. Now, not certain how you got $137 million for a year's sailing on Getaway, because I've got $12.95x4500 guests x 365 days/year = $21.2 million. Now, 1600 crew, minus about 120 deck/engine, minus 100 supervisory hotel staff, minus 100 concessionaires = 1280 crew possibly in the DSC pool. Even going down to 1100 crew, that comes to $53/per crew/per day or another $3.80 per hour for their standard 14 hour day. So this looks to my eyes as if their incentive is 50% of their compensation (some more, some less), but not a great windfall that is making them all rich.

 

Do I support everything NCL does? No. Do I feel that the compensation for the international crew is fair? No. Have I worked with both the NCL US and international crews? Yes. Have I been involved with the ship's daily revenue issues, accounting, and service charge issues? Yes. Does NCL make mistakes? Yes. Are the increased DSC, gratuities, and room service charge the proper business model? Time will tell.

 

But NOT EVERYONE on this thread agrees that NCL is withholding DSC from the staff to make profit. Again, I will reference a thread that was over on the RCI board, that discussed profit per passenger. According to RCI's filings, they make $148/passenger. That is not per passenger per day, that is per passenger booked. I have to assume that the other lines are similar. That included fares, gratuities, and all onboard revenue, and worked out to a 9% return on investment. Is this a huge profit margin? So, even IF NCL were retaining a portion of DSC, it still only gives them a fair, not exorbitant, return.

 

I know I will not convince anyone on this board, but I had to vent a little before going to work.

[sundercruiser]

Sure, "that" money went into NCLs pocket, but their contract tells you the DSC goes to their crew in several forms. I think that's all you need to know. Where they keep it separate from the actual fare, I believe it is for tax or some other legal purpose. They would be under some requirement to uphold what they say.

 

Who knows why NCL chooses to make their crew's wages depend at least in part on a completely discretionary charge? As you suggest it might be for tax avoidance purposes....greaaat! As a U.S. taxpayer that doesn't make me at all happy, even if it might save me some bucks on a cruise. We have far too much corporate tax avoidance already.

 

But no matter what, the Contract makes this portion of what we pay for cruising DISCRETIONARY. Those who have a problem with folks exercising this contractual right are totally out of line to get so apoplectic about it. Your argument is with the CRUISELINE, not your fellow passengers. NCL wrote the Contract. We just get to agree to it, or not. Very few clauses in there give us any kind of rights at all. This one does, for the sole reason that NCL derives a presumably significant benefit for it. As a potential DSC-adjuster, why shouldn't I help myself to some of that benefit, too?

 

I have said this over and over. Crew are paid what the market dictates for their labor. If DSC is raised, that means NCL can reduce other portions of crew compensation and still maintain their overall market wage. No corporation that I know of would just dump a whole lot more money into workers' laps and say Enjoy, oh toiling masses. They will do whatever they can to retain that extra money, somehow. It's just how they roll and my bet is there are plenty on these boards who think Fine and dandy, that's just good business! Common sense dictates that when all is said and done, workers on NCL will be getting, overall, about the same after all these increases as before.

 

The difference is that NCL shareholders will be getting a significant "raise." It's you or them. You choose.

[AEckhardt]

Okay, I try my best to avoid tipping threads, and probably won't be back to debate this, since I'm headed back to sea, so I'll just put my view out there for others to shred.

 

 

 

Everyone seems to be mainly motivated over an increase in DSC, the increase in drink and specialty restaurant gratuity, and the room service charge. In my opinion, this is NCL's model for keeping profits up while keeping fares down. RCI has increased gratuities, and has stated that they won't be discounting fares to fill the ship. That is a different model. Which will work better? Time will tell.

 

 

 

Now, I can't be certain, but I believe that both ohionclcruiser and pieshops worked for NCL in Hawaii on the US flag ships, so there is some disconnect there as the labor laws are totally different for US crews to international crews.

 

 

 

Actually, NCL has no problem with a guest adjusting the DSC, they just wish that you would specify what your reason is for your dissatisfaction with the service, and if there was a particular crewmember who did not provide adequate service. If those things are noted at the time of DSC adjustment, the crew that failed to perform will lose their portion of your DSC, while the other crew who did perform will receive their normal share.

 

 

 

Someone brought up the "I asked my steward" thing. First off, crew are seriously discouraged from talking salary with guests, secondly given the changes in wage structure resulting from the MLC 2006 labor convention, the crew are most likely told that their wage is in the form of wage and "incentive" without mention of the DSC, and thirdly as I've stated before, did the turkey ever ask for Thanksgiving to be a holiday? There might be some vested interest in the crew's answers.

 

 

 

Now, for LMaxwell:

 

 

 

Quote:

 

 

 

In NCL's guest ticket contract it pretty clearly spells out that NO, the entire DSC does not go to the staff.

 

 

 

-First, some portion is deducted to go into a general crew welfare fund. Percentage unknown.

 

 

 

-Secondly, NCL state that they have their own performance metrics for staff to meet and it is NCL's sole discretion how much of the remaining pile someone gets based on those internal metrics.

 

 

 

Here is the NCL guest ticket contract. Page 2. Section 3C.

 

 

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/fil...ct_03_2014.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

The real question - Why are people vital to hotel operations, yet are NOT guest facing, such as people in laundry services, being made to be dependent on a discretionary service charge when they never see a single guest? Before this auto-tip stuff no one ever suggested to tip them, because they earned a wage commensurate with their job.

 

Unquote

 

 

 

Where in your restatement of NCL's policy does it say that all of the DSC does not go to the crew? Yes, a portion goes to crew welfare which benefits the crew. Second, the remainder is divided by NCL's metrics as to how much someone gets, not how much the crew gets. If someone fails to perform, they will get a reduced percentage, while the others may get more, or get the normal distribution. Why do they include back of house employees in this incentive program? Because they are trying to build a team effort for guest service, and if the laundry crew do not do a good job in taking stained or ripped towels out of service before they get to the steward, then the guest who receives them will fault the steward, not the laundry person.

 

 

 

Next you claim that staffing levels have dropped. Do you have statistics or evidence of this? Then you claim that wages dropped since auto-tipping started. Evidence? Statistics?

 

 

 

Yes, NCL will take a float on pre-paid DSC, nothing wrong with that. Next you say that DSC paid onboard is held for weeks or months? Again, evidence of this? Removals of DSC are looked at onboard at the weekly revenue meeting, and as pieshops has stated, the DSC for each crewmember is adjusted weekly based on DSC adjustments for that week, and paid bi-weekly. That is fact.

 

 

 

And finally, with regards to tip-guilt. You are describing the service industry attitude in the US when you speak of restaurant staff expecting 20%. As you say, you are basing this on web forums for restaurant workers, and how many of them are from overseas? Service industry workers from other countries, like the international crew, don't have the sense of entitlement that US workers do. Why punish these workers for the attitudes of people in your own country?

 

 

 

Now, Rochelle s. First you say that nothing is said about how much the crew is paid, and imply that this is unimportant to the issue, and then mention a gross figure for DSC and imply that this is excessive. Since you bring this up, I will mention how much these people make. Per the MLC 2006 international labor convention, the minimum wage for a seafarer for a 40 hour week is $585 per month. That's about $3.65/hour. There is additional wage for hours over 40 hours, but that may or may not be at a higher rate, depending on the employee's contract. Now, not certain how you got $137 million for a year's sailing on Getaway, because I've got $12.95x4500 guests x 365 days/year = $21.2 million. Now, 1600 crew, minus about 120 deck/engine, minus 100 supervisory hotel staff, minus 100 concessionaires = 1280 crew possibly in the DSC pool. Even going down to 1100 crew, that comes to $53/per crew/per day or another $3.80 per hour for their standard 14 hour day. So this looks to my eyes as if their incentive is 50% of their compensation (some more, some less), but not a great windfall that is making them all rich.

 

 

 

Do I support everything NCL does? No. Do I feel that the compensation for the international crew is fair? No. Have I worked with both the NCL US and international crews? Yes. Have I been involved with the ship's daily revenue issues, accounting, and service charge issues? Yes. Does NCL make mistakes? Yes. Are the increased DSC, gratuities, and room service charge the proper business model? Time will tell.

 

 

 

But NOT EVERYONE on this thread agrees that NCL is withholding DSC from the staff to make profit. Again, I will reference a thread that was over on the RCI board, that discussed profit per passenger. According to RCI's filings, they make $148/passenger. That is not per passenger per day, that is per passenger booked. I have to assume that the other lines are similar. That included fares, gratuities, and all onboard revenue, and worked out to a 9% return on investment. Is this a huge profit margin? So, even IF NCL were retaining a portion of DSC, it still only gives them a fair, not exorbitant, return.

 

 

 

I know I will not convince anyone on this board, but I had to vent a little before going to work.

 

 

I always appreciate you informative posts, and you're unique insight. Thank you ChengKP

[chengkp75]

Who knows why NCL chooses to make their crew's wages depend at least in part on a completely discretionary charge? As you suggest it might be for tax avoidance purposes....greaaat! As a U.S. taxpayer that doesn't make me at all happy, even if it might save me some bucks on a cruise. We have far too much corporate tax avoidance already.

 

But no matter what, the Contract makes this portion of what we pay for cruising DISCRETIONARY. Those who have a problem with folks exercising this contractual right are totally out of line to get so apoplectic about it. Your argument is with the CRUISELINE, not your fellow passengers. NCL wrote the Contract. We just get to agree to it, or not. Very few clauses in there give us any kind of rights at all. This one does, for the sole reason that NCL derives a presumably significant benefit for it. As a potential DSC-adjuster, why shouldn't I help myself to some of that benefit, too?

 

I have said this over and over. Crew are paid what the market dictates for their labor. If DSC is raised, that means NCL can reduce other portions of crew compensation and still maintain their overall market wage. No corporation that I know of would just dump a whole lot more money into workers' laps and say Enjoy, oh toiling masses. They will do whatever they can to retain that extra money, somehow. It's just how they roll and my bet is there are plenty on these boards who think Fine and dandy, that's just good business! Common sense dictates that when all is said and done, workers on NCL will be getting, overall, about the same after all these increases as before.

 

The difference is that NCL shareholders will be getting a significant "raise." It's you or them. You choose.

 

While what you say is true, that the market will affect compensation, what most don't understand is that there is a new player in town. The IMO adopted the MLC 2006 (which entered into effect in 2012, IIRC) which mandates things like living conditions and compensation for mariners. The flag state of the ships (in NCL's case, the Bahamas) must enact enabling legislation that meets the mandates of the MLC. So there is now a minimum wage level, and the breakout of a 40 hour base wage. The ILO has been formulating minimum wages for mariners for years, but only with the adoption of MLC 2006, has their recommendations been given the force of law. These minimums from the ILO increase every couple of years, and the ILO has been appointed as the agency that will continue to review and reset these minimum wages. So, whether or not the cruise lines raised wages regularly in the past, they will be required to do so now and in the future, so I see the possibilities for further increases in DSC if that is to be NCL's model for fare structure, but I don't see that these increases are strictly profit for the company.

[SeaShark]

or does NCL keep a portion of it as revenue? :mad:

 

if NCL keeps a piece of it as profit, then I'm taking all of the DSC off and tipping people individually!

 

If it all went to the staff, NCL would simply call it a gratuity.

 

The fact that they choose to label it as a Service Charge means, by definition, that NCL can choose the amount, method, ancd criteria for whatever PORTION of that money they choose to distribute...if any.

[AEckhardt]

Who knows why NCL chooses to make their crew's wages depend at least in part on a completely discretionary charge? As you suggest it might be for tax avoidance purposes....greaaat! As a U.S. taxpayer that doesn't make me at all happy, even if it might save me some bucks on a cruise. We have far too much corporate tax avoidance already.

 

But no matter what, the Contract makes this portion of what we pay for cruising DISCRETIONARY. Those who have a problem with folks exercising this contractual right are totally out of line to get so apoplectic about it. Your argument is with the CRUISELINE, not your fellow passengers. NCL wrote the Contract. We just get to agree to it, or not. Very few clauses in there give us any kind of rights at all. This one does, for the sole reason that NCL derives a presumably significant benefit for it. As a potential DSC-adjuster, why shouldn't I help myself to some of that benefit, too?

 

I have said this over and over. Crew are paid what the market dictates for their labor. If DSC is raised, that means NCL can reduce other portions of crew compensation and still maintain their overall market wage. No corporation that I know of would just dump a whole lot more money into workers' laps and say Enjoy, oh toiling masses. They will do whatever they can to retain that extra money, somehow. It's just how they roll and my bet is there are plenty on these boards who think Fine and dandy, that's just good business! Common sense dictates that when all is said and done, workers on NCL will be getting, overall, about the same after all these increases as before.

 

The difference is that NCL shareholders will be getting a significant "raise." It's you or them. You choose.

 

 

I base when, where and how I cruise based on the total amount I intend to pay for fare, the DSC, and whether or not I feel I will get value out of purchasing a dining or beverage package. I include this, and all other fees I may incur in my planning. With a raise in DSC, or any other fee, I take that into consideration.

 

When I booked my upcoming cruise, the DSC remained $12. I appreciate NCL giving me the opportunity to pre pay ( which I do anyway) the DSC at the rate I agreed upon when booking. In the future, the new rate will be part of my decision making, as far as what I can afford. But the way NCL dishes out the DSC is fine by me. I will not adjust it based on services received. Even if the ship lost power and floated for days, because there will be staff that goes above and beyond, even if some others do not. They are not at fault for corporate policies that I may not care for.

 

Yes, they give you the opportunity to reduce or remove the Daily Service Charge ( not Discretionary Service Charge) in the event you believe you receive extremely poor service, but you better have a particular person to name as the cause of your troubles, otherwise you are hitting the pockets of each person in the DSC pool.

 

In life, just because people have the option to be a jerk doesn't mean that's the right thing to do. People take advantage, and I fear that many people will take their anger and frustration toward raised fees and "convenience charges" out on the wrong people.

 

If I'm unhappy with a corporation, I look elsewhere. I have always gone to NCL without looking at other options. Lately, that hasn't been the case and I am seriously considering another option for my next booking. I most likely will keep my current NCL booking, but I won't take it out on my steward because I don't like NCLs recent shadiness.

[LMaxwell]

So, even IF NCL were retaining a portion of DSC, it still only gives them a fair, not exorbitant, return.

 

 

Your posts are always excellent to read, and despite not knowing you, I trust your insights as well as your ability to tell it like it is. Many of your technical posts are truly world class in terms of explaining things that are little known to the casual observer, and for that I sincerely thank you for your contributions.

 

However, in regards to the quote above; I do not think NCL should be retaining any portion of the DSC in order to reap a return on it. This is money meant to be paid for services and SHOULD be passed through to pay for services. I find it offensive that an employer would keep any portion of a service charge and not pass it on to the crew and use it as another revenue stream. I do split hairs here, and make that known, that I consider making money off the float is different than just skimming off the pool.

 

I wish you safe journeys back at sea and look forward to your future postings. :)

[SAILPRO]

Okay, I try my best to avoid tipping threads, and probably won't be back to debate this, since I'm headed back to sea, so I'll just put my view out there for others to shred.

 

Everyone seems to be mainly motivated over an increase in DSC, the increase in drink and specialty restaurant gratuity, and the room service charge. In my opinion, this is NCL's model for keeping profits up while keeping fares down. RCI has increased gratuities, and has stated that they won't be discounting fares to fill the ship. That is a different model. Which will work better? Time will tell.

 

Now, I can't be certain, but I believe that both ohionclcruiser and pieshops worked for NCL in Hawaii on the US flag ships, so there is some disconnect there as the labor laws are totally different for US crews to international crews.

 

Actually, NCL has no problem with a guest adjusting the DSC, they just wish that you would specify what your reason is for your dissatisfaction with the service, and if there was a particular crewmember who did not provide adequate service. If those things are noted at the time of DSC adjustment, the crew that failed to perform will lose their portion of your DSC, while the other crew who did perform will receive their normal share.

 

Someone brought up the "I asked my steward" thing. First off, crew are seriously discouraged from talking salary with guests, secondly given the changes in wage structure resulting from the MLC 2006 labor convention, the crew are most likely told that their wage is in the form of wage and "incentive" without mention of the DSC, and thirdly as I've stated before, did the turkey ever ask for Thanksgiving to be a holiday? There might be some vested interest in the crew's answers.

 

Now, for LMaxwell:

 

Quote:

 

In NCL's guest ticket contract it pretty clearly spells out that NO, the entire DSC does not go to the staff.

 

-First, some portion is deducted to go into a general crew welfare fund. Percentage unknown.

 

-Secondly, NCL state that they have their own performance metrics for staff to meet and it is NCL's sole discretion how much of the remaining pile someone gets based on those internal metrics.

 

Here is the NCL guest ticket contract. Page 2. Section 3C.

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/fil...ct_03_2014.pdf

 

 

The real question - Why are people vital to hotel operations, yet are NOT guest facing, such as people in laundry services, being made to be dependent on a discretionary service charge when they never see a single guest? Before this auto-tip stuff no one ever suggested to tip them, because they earned a wage commensurate with their job.

Unquote

 

Where in your restatement of NCL's policy does it say that all of the DSC does not go to the crew? Yes, a portion goes to crew welfare which benefits the crew. Second, the remainder is divided by NCL's metrics as to how much someone gets, not how much the crew gets. If someone fails to perform, they will get a reduced percentage, while the others may get more, or get the normal distribution. Why do they include back of house employees in this incentive program? Because they are trying to build a team effort for guest service, and if the laundry crew do not do a good job in taking stained or ripped towels out of service before they get to the steward, then the guest who receives them will fault the steward, not the laundry person.

 

Next you claim that staffing levels have dropped. Do you have statistics or evidence of this? Then you claim that wages dropped since auto-tipping started. Evidence? Statistics?

 

Yes, NCL will take a float on pre-paid DSC, nothing wrong with that. Next you say that DSC paid onboard is held for weeks or months? Again, evidence of this? Removals of DSC are looked at onboard at the weekly revenue meeting, and as pieshops has stated, the DSC for each crewmember is adjusted weekly based on DSC adjustments for that week, and paid bi-weekly. That is fact.

 

And finally, with regards to tip-guilt. You are describing the service industry attitude in the US when you speak of restaurant staff expecting 20%. As you say, you are basing this on web forums for restaurant workers, and how many of them are from overseas? Service industry workers from other countries, like the international crew, don't have the sense of entitlement that US workers do. Why punish these workers for the attitudes of people in your own country?

 

Now, Rochelle s. First you say that nothing is said about how much the crew is paid, and imply that this is unimportant to the issue, and then mention a gross figure for DSC and imply that this is excessive. Since you bring this up, I will mention how much these people make. Per the MLC 2006 international labor convention, the minimum wage for a seafarer for a 40 hour week is $585 per month. That's about $3.65/hour. There is additional wage for hours over 40 hours, but that may or may not be at a higher rate, depending on the employee's contract. Now, not certain how you got $137 million for a year's sailing on Getaway, because I've got $12.95x4500 guests x 365 days/year = $21.2 million. Now, 1600 crew, minus about 120 deck/engine, minus 100 supervisory hotel staff, minus 100 concessionaires = 1280 crew possibly in the DSC pool. Even going down to 1100 crew, that comes to $53/per crew/per day or another $3.80 per hour for their standard 14 hour day. So this looks to my eyes as if their incentive is 50% of their compensation (some more, some less), but not a great windfall that is making them all rich.

 

Do I support everything NCL does? No. Do I feel that the compensation for the international crew is fair? No. Have I worked with both the NCL US and international crews? Yes. Have I been involved with the ship's daily revenue issues, accounting, and service charge issues? Yes. Does NCL make mistakes? Yes. Are the increased DSC, gratuities, and room service charge the proper business model? Time will tell.

 

But NOT EVERYONE on this thread agrees that NCL is withholding DSC from the staff to make profit. Again, I will reference a thread that was over on the RCI board, that discussed profit per passenger. According to RCI's filings, they make $148/passenger. That is not per passenger per day, that is per passenger booked. I have to assume that the other lines are similar. That included fares, gratuities, and all onboard revenue, and worked out to a 9% return on investment. Is this a huge profit margin? So, even IF NCL were retaining a portion of DSC, it still only gives them a fair, not exorbitant, return.

 

I know I will not convince anyone on this board, but I had to vent a little before going to work.

 

had to vent a little before going to work. :D