Does the $12.95/day auto-tip ALL goto staff?

[chengkp75]

Your posts are always excellent to read, and despite not knowing you, I trust your insights as well as your ability to tell it like it is. Many of your technical posts are truly world class in terms of explaining things that are little known to the casual observer, and for that I sincerely thank you for your contributions.

 

However, in regards to the quote above; I do not think NCL should be retaining any portion of the DSC in order to reap a return on it. This is money meant to be paid for services and SHOULD be passed through to pay for services. I find it offensive that an employer would keep any portion of a service charge and not pass it on to the crew and use it as another revenue stream. I do split hairs here, and make that known, that I consider making money off the float is different than just skimming off the pool.

 

I wish you safe journeys back at sea and look forward to your future postings. :)

 

Notice my emphasis on "IF", as I have no personal information to support the theory that they are, and do have personal experience that they didn't do it in the past.

[SAILPRO]

if it all went to the staff, ncl would simply call it a gratuity.

 

The fact that they choose to label it as a service charge means, by definition, that ncl can choose the amount, method, ancd criteria for whatever portion of that money they choose to distribute...if any.

 

"like"

[LMaxwell]

Who knows why NCL chooses to make their crew's wages depend at least in part on a completely discretionary charge? As you suggest it might be for tax avoidance purposes....greaaat! As a U.S. taxpayer that doesn't make me at all happy, even if it might save me some bucks on a cruise. We have far too much corporate tax avoidance already.

 

 

The cruise lines already pay almost zero in US taxes, and tax payers fund things like CBP at the ports, Coast Guard rescues, and for police (land and marine) protection at ports as well. I am happy to pay my taxes for these protections, but let's be clear, these cruise lines, all of them are set up in a way to avoid paying US taxes.

[LMaxwell]

I will not adjust it based on services received.

You would be just as content paying for bad service as good service? Or, that is to say bad service deserves the same compensation as good service? That reinforces that bad service is acceptable and demotivates those that go above and beyond the baseline. That's just my opinion on the topic as I would not tolerate bad service, especially since, to me, NCL has raised the expectation of service levels with increases and new service fees.

 

DSC may stand for daily service charge, but it is completely and 100% discretionary by the guest. When something is discretionary no reason or justification need be given to exercise that discretion. And so long as it is in the framework of the rules established by the company no guest can be wrong for exercising their option. On the flip side, the company punishing crew by lowering their subjective performance scores for a guest exercising a discretionary option is flat wrong.

 

Full disclosure. I have never NOT paid DSC. I have never reduced it. I have never NOT tipped. But NCL is setting a very high bar for service levels and I expect them to be met. If not I will address with management, ONCE, and after that I will exercise options available to me as established by the company.

[rochelle_s]

On that same thread I also replied to you comment. If you take $12.95 x 7days x 4000 passengers and divide that by 1500 crew, it comes out to a little more than $240 a week. That's not really a huge amount. It's not exactly distribute like that, but consider NCL takes some off the top for "crew welfare" and it's divided based of performance, perhaps goals met, etc, some get more than others, it doesn't seem so unfair to me. I know I have had to reach certain sales goals to get my monthly bonus and that bonus fluctuated based on overall profits. It doesn't seem much different.

 

Which works out to just over a thousand a month. Add in the base pay from the cruise line and any cash tips received. Also lets factor in the free room and board.

 

In comparison someone working an entry level job here in Ontario, Canada makes $11.50 per hour, Which equates to just under $2000 per month. They pay tax on every penny they earn. Pay for the roof over their head, the food on their table, their utilities and transportation to work and back every day.

 

Who, at the end of the month fares better? The Canadian would be lucky to have a couple of hundred a month expendable income. The cruise ship worker has more like a couple of thousand.

 

I have no problem with the DSC and tipping extra for above and beyond. I believe they work hard every day and deserve the money they make. But I think it is unfair to try and guilt people into paying more and more, no questions asked, by referring to the crew as poor hard working folks from third world countries. There are plenty of folks in my own first world country getting by on a lot less.

 

 

Rochelle

[LrgPizza]

Okay, I try my best to avoid tipping threads, and probably won't be back to debate this, since I'm headed back to sea, so I'll just put my view out there for others to shred.

 

Everyone seems to be mainly motivated over an increase in DSC, the increase in drink and specialty restaurant gratuity, and the room service charge. In my opinion, this is NCL's model for keeping profits up while keeping fares down. RCI has increased gratuities, and has stated that they won't be discounting fares to fill the ship. That is a different model. Which will work better? Time will tell.

 

Now, I can't be certain, but I believe that both ohionclcruiser and pieshops worked for NCL in Hawaii on the US flag ships, so there is some disconnect there as the labor laws are totally different for US crews to international crews.

 

Actually, NCL has no problem with a guest adjusting the DSC, they just wish that you would specify what your reason is for your dissatisfaction with the service, and if there was a particular crewmember who did not provide adequate service. If those things are noted at the time of DSC adjustment, the crew that failed to perform will lose their portion of your DSC, while the other crew who did perform will receive their normal share.

 

Someone brought up the "I asked my steward" thing. First off, crew are seriously discouraged from talking salary with guests, secondly given the changes in wage structure resulting from the MLC 2006 labor convention, the crew are most likely told that their wage is in the form of wage and "incentive" without mention of the DSC, and thirdly as I've stated before, did the turkey ever ask for Thanksgiving to be a holiday? There might be some vested interest in the crew's answers.

 

Now, for LMaxwell:

 

Quote:

 

In NCL's guest ticket contract it pretty clearly spells out that NO, the entire DSC does not go to the staff.

 

-First, some portion is deducted to go into a general crew welfare fund. Percentage unknown.

 

-Secondly, NCL state that they have their own performance metrics for staff to meet and it is NCL's sole discretion how much of the remaining pile someone gets based on those internal metrics.

 

Here is the NCL guest ticket contract. Page 2. Section 3C.

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/fil...ct_03_2014.pdf

 

 

The real question - Why are people vital to hotel operations, yet are NOT guest facing, such as people in laundry services, being made to be dependent on a discretionary service charge when they never see a single guest? Before this auto-tip stuff no one ever suggested to tip them, because they earned a wage commensurate with their job.

Unquote

 

Where in your restatement of NCL's policy does it say that all of the DSC does not go to the crew? Yes, a portion goes to crew welfare which benefits the crew. Second, the remainder is divided by NCL's metrics as to how much someone gets, not how much the crew gets. If someone fails to perform, they will get a reduced percentage, while the others may get more, or get the normal distribution. Why do they include back of house employees in this incentive program? Because they are trying to build a team effort for guest service, and if the laundry crew do not do a good job in taking stained or ripped towels out of service before they get to the steward, then the guest who receives them will fault the steward, not the laundry person.

 

Next you claim that staffing levels have dropped. Do you have statistics or evidence of this? Then you claim that wages dropped since auto-tipping started. Evidence? Statistics?

 

Yes, NCL will take a float on pre-paid DSC, nothing wrong with that. Next you say that DSC paid onboard is held for weeks or months? Again, evidence of this? Removals of DSC are looked at onboard at the weekly revenue meeting, and as pieshops has stated, the DSC for each crewmember is adjusted weekly based on DSC adjustments for that week, and paid bi-weekly. That is fact.

 

And finally, with regards to tip-guilt. You are describing the service industry attitude in the US when you speak of restaurant staff expecting 20%. As you say, you are basing this on web forums for restaurant workers, and how many of them are from overseas? Service industry workers from other countries, like the international crew, don't have the sense of entitlement that US workers do. Why punish these workers for the attitudes of people in your own country?

 

Now, Rochelle s. First you say that nothing is said about how much the crew is paid, and imply that this is unimportant to the issue, and then mention a gross figure for DSC and imply that this is excessive. Since you bring this up, I will mention how much these people make. Per the MLC 2006 international labor convention, the minimum wage for a seafarer for a 40 hour week is $585 per month. That's about $3.65/hour. There is additional wage for hours over 40 hours, but that may or may not be at a higher rate, depending on the employee's contract. Now, not certain how you got $137 million for a year's sailing on Getaway, because I've got $12.95x4500 guests x 365 days/year = $21.2 million. Now, 1600 crew, minus about 120 deck/engine, minus 100 supervisory hotel staff, minus 100 concessionaires = 1280 crew possibly in the DSC pool. Even going down to 1100 crew, that comes to $53/per crew/per day or another $3.80 per hour for their standard 14 hour day. So this looks to my eyes as if their incentive is 50% of their compensation (some more, some less), but not a great windfall that is making them all rich.

 

Do I support everything NCL does? No. Do I feel that the compensation for the international crew is fair? No. Have I worked with both the NCL US and international crews? Yes. Have I been involved with the ship's daily revenue issues, accounting, and service charge issues? Yes. Does NCL make mistakes? Yes. Are the increased DSC, gratuities, and room service charge the proper business model? Time will tell.

 

But NOT EVERYONE on this thread agrees that NCL is withholding DSC from the staff to make profit. Again, I will reference a thread that was over on the RCI board, that discussed profit per passenger. According to RCI's filings, they make $148/passenger. That is not per passenger per day, that is per passenger booked. I have to assume that the other lines are similar. That included fares, gratuities, and all onboard revenue, and worked out to a 9% return on investment. Is this a huge profit margin? So, even IF NCL were retaining a portion of DSC, it still only gives them a fair, not exorbitant, return.

 

I know I will not convince anyone on this board, but I had to vent a little before going to work.

You've convinced me because you are a rare person who actually knows what he's talking about. Most people here are having group panic over things about which they know nothing. Thank you for the insight, even though a lot here still won't get it.

[awaywego0000]

Most people on the ship don't make very much money. They work long hours and they are hard working people. IF NCL does use some of the DSC for something other than gratuities, that means those people make even less. Then when people go to guest services and remove the DSC and give cash to only those who they come in contact with, again the people (behind the scenes) make even less.

 

If you are angry with NCL because you believe they are making a profit off of DSC, then don't sail NCL.

 

If you are concerned with the crew not getting enough money, tip the people over and above the DSC for doing a good job.

[AEckhardt]

You would be just as content paying for bad service as good service? Or, that is to say bad service deserves the same compensation as good service? That reinforces that bad service is acceptable and demotivates those that go above and beyond the baseline. That's just my opinion on the topic as I would not tolerate bad service, especially since, to me, NCL has raised the expectation of service levels with increases and new service fees.

 

DSC may stand for daily service charge, but it is completely and 100% discretionary by the guest. When something is discretionary no reason or justification need be given to exercise that discretion. And so long as it is in the framework of the rules established by the company no guest can be wrong for exercising their option. On the flip side, the company punishing crew by lowering their subjective performance scores for a guest exercising a discretionary option is flat wrong.

 

Full disclosure. I have never NOT paid DSC. I have never reduced it. I have never NOT tipped. But NCL is setting a very high bar for service levels and I expect them to be met. If not I will address with management, ONCE, and after that I will exercise options available to me as established by the company.

 

 

If I ran into a situation where I received pretty darn poor service, I would handle it at that moment, by speaking to their supervisor or grabbing their name and leaving a comment for the hotel director in his box, And I bet along the way, I would also receive exemplary service from another crew member, and I would praise them to their supervisors or leave a hero card with their name on it. Either situation should affect their DSC, based on performance; one getting more, one getting less. But by reducing it, without naming a particular person, everyone gets less. And that isn't right.

[maywell]

You would be just as content paying for bad service as good service? Or, that is to say bad service deserves the same compensation as good service? That reinforces that bad service is acceptable and demotivates those that go above and beyond the baseline. That's just my opinion on the topic as I would not tolerate bad service, especially since, to me, NCL has raised the expectation of service levels with increases and new service fees.

 

DSC may stand for daily service charge, but it is completely and 100% discretionary by the guest. When something is discretionary no reason or justification need be given to exercise that discretion. And so long as it is in the framework of the rules established by the company no guest can be wrong for exercising their option. On the flip side, the company punishing crew by lowering their subjective performance scores for a guest exercising a discretionary option is flat wrong.

 

Full disclosure. I have never NOT paid DSC. I have never reduced it. I have never NOT tipped. But NCL is setting a very high bar for service levels and I expect them to be met. If not I will address with management, ONCE, and after that I will exercise options available to me as established by the company.

Again, do not willing and purposely cruise with a company knowing fully well their policies regarding paying /tipping thier staff with DSC that you totally disagree with. If you're going to go all "social worker of justice" routine, sailing on cruise with policies like that is the most oxymoron / contradictory thing you can possible do. There's cruise lines where DSC and gratuities are included in the fare - sail those lines instead and spare yourself the discomfort /misery of dealing with the knowledge of how your DSC is being use without your exclusive consent or input.

 

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[LMaxwell]

Again, do not willing and purposely cruise with a company knowing fully well their policies regarding paying /tipping thier staff with DSC that you totally disagree with. If you're going to go all "social worker of justice" routine, sailing on cruise with policies like that is the most oxymoron / contradictory thing you can possible do. There's cruise lines where DSC and gratuities are included in the fare - sail those lines instead and spare yourself the discomfort /misery of dealing with the knowledge of how your DSC is being use without your exclusive consent or input.

 

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"MYOB" as you've so eloquently stated earlier. I will spend my money how I see fit and, sorry, there is nothing at all you can do about it.

[maywell]

If I ran into a situation where I received pretty darn poor service, I would handle it at that moment, by speaking to their supervisor or grabbing their name and leaving a comment for the hotel director in his box, And I bet along the way, I would also receive exemplary service from another crew member, and I would praise them to their supervisors or leave a hero card with their name on it. Either situation should affect their DSC, based on performance; one getting more, one getting less. But by reducing it, without naming a particular person, everyone gets less. And that isn't right.

I had 2 situations in the MDR (one in Manhattan and other in the smaller one) where took long times serving the group I dining with. And both times the Maitres handle it and apologize for that happen (verbally and with free bottles of wines for the tables for both incidents).

 

Did I go ranting at Guest Services to reduce the DSC for this failiure? No because 1) it was handle properly and 2) the waiters serving my table for those 2 incidents are minor embellish to otherwise stellar staff I encounter those days (room steward, cleaning staff, buffets, bars, etc). If I going to reduce the DSC, it has be a complete failure from ALL services, not just one.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Which works out to just over a thousand a month. Add in the base pay from the cruise line and any cash tips received. Also lets factor in the free room and board.

 

In comparison someone working an entry level job here in Ontario, Canada makes $11.50 per hour, Which equates to just under $2000 per month. They pay tax on every penny they earn. Pay for the roof over their head, the food on their table, their utilities and transportation to work and back every day.

 

Who, at the end of the month fares better? The Canadian would be lucky to have a couple of hundred a month expendable income. The cruise ship worker has more like a couple of thousand.

 

I have no problem with the DSC and tipping extra for above and beyond. I believe they work hard every day and deserve the money they make. But I think it is unfair to try and guilt people into paying more and more, no questions asked, by referring to the crew as poor hard working folks from third world countries. There are plenty of folks in my own first world country getting by on a lot less.

 

 

Rochelle

 

People don't understand a mariner's life. Yes, for 6 months a year, I receive free room and board on the ship. However, my family back home still have to pay the mortgage and for food. They are not getting anything free. The cruise ship employee is usually required to send their entire base wage home (by the crewing contractor that coordinated their employment, or by their home country law). Most also send most of the overtime or incentive pay home as well.

 

The Canadian who pays taxes on his earnings receives benefits from those taxes like socialized health care, which the crew do not receive back home.

 

Most Canadians do not have to pay crewing contractors for the privilege of working (sort of like union dues), nor do they have to pay for the flight of several thousand miles to get to work. While repatriation at contract's end is covered by the cruise line, the cost to get to work (like a commuting cost) is paid by the crewmember.

 

I did a little more digging into the MLC 2006, since most of the aspects of this convention do not apply to US crews (since our standards as required by US labor law and USCG regulations are far higher), and found that the convention only went into full effect on 20 Aug 2013. So, the cruise lines have been dealing with these mandates for only about 18 months. I've also found that it mandates paid annual leave of 2.5 days/month worked, which is a completely new concept to the cruise lines. In the past, once a crewmember's contract was over, that was the end of his pay until the next contract. So this will drive up crew costs, which may explain the increase in gratuities for lines like NCL and RCI.

 

Crew make a middle class income for their home country. They are not destitute, but they give up a lot to earn that middle class income. I would like to see a survey of first world people, and what their salary requirements would be to take a job with the hardships of crew life, and how percentage wise this would compare with the median income of the country, and then compare that to the same figure for the crew's countries.

 

I just find it unreasonable for everyone to feel that every increase goes directly to profit of the company. It will be interesting to see the 2015 financial reports to see if return on investment, or profit per passenger increases apace with the increases in fees.

Edited April 1, 2015 by chengkp75

[fstuff1]

Having worked for NCL I can attest that 100 percent goes to the staff but not all as gratuities.

 

some goes to things like staff parties, promotions for the staff, etc.

 

ok, thx!

[rochelle_s]

That was a rough number. On the mega ships, they actually upward of 1600 crew. And you're right, not all the staff is included, but either way, Rochelle's assessment was not taking into account that bonuses and other compensation is given to the crew out of it, perhaps even holiday bonuses, not just one giant annual party. I would think they would have small parties on the ship rather regularIy, perhaps even weekly, but who knows.

 

Point is, when divided up weekly, it's not as massive as it seems.

 

Bonuses, holiday or otherwise, and appreciation parties should be paid for by the employer. If your employer holds back a portion of your pay each week and then gives you a holiday bonus or a few parties throughout the year who is really paying for that? It is certainly not your employer. The employee is paying for it themselves. I guess they should be ever so grateful to the boss. :rolleyes:

 

 

Rochelle

[maywell]

"MYOB" as you've so eloquently stated earlier. I will spend my money how I see fit and, sorry, there is nothing at all you can do about it.

And again, you're the one who tossed out their business to world wide web - So my opinion of you is that you're person that likes to be miserable plus high & mighty during vacation a on cruise ship knowing fully well the policies of the line but still choose to sail with them anyway. But you can take my opinion with grain or dump truck of salt since frugal and cheap is a extremely thin line when cruising and DSC is are concern. *shrug*

 

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[cfitch]

Even if NCL kept a portion for whatever reason, by guests removing their portion, it would still affect crew members.

 

Pieshops is a former employee and stated it goes 100% to employees in one form or another. Other former employees have made similar statements. Even if there was a percentage being withheld that those employees were unaware of, it is clear the DSC goes to the crew and therefore they would be hurt by it being significantly reduced.

 

While we have seen this written it would be nice to know what metrics are used...such as...if guests send in positive comments about particular staff do they get more, or is it some manager sitting up top that never sees what type of effort is put forth that randomly gives out so much...or is it a % of the overall take from one cruise divided up based on job title?

[LMaxwell]

And again, you're the one who tossed out their business to world wide web - So my opinion of you is that you're person that likes to be miserable plus high & mighty during vacation a on cruise ship knowing fully well the policies of the line but still choose to sail with them anyway. But you can take my opinion with grain or dump truck of salt since frugal and cheap is a extremely thin line when cruising and DSC is are concern. *shrug*

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

 

lol, you could not be any more wrong.

[punkincc]

Which works out to just over a thousand a month. Add in the base pay from the cruise line and any cash tips received. Also lets factor in the free room and board.

 

In comparison someone working an entry level job here in Ontario, Canada makes $11.50 per hour, Which equates to just under $2000 per month. They pay tax on every penny they earn. Pay for the roof over their head, the food on their table, their utilities and transportation to work and back every day.

 

Who, at the end of the month fares better? The Canadian would be lucky to have a couple of hundred a month expendable income. The cruise ship worker has more like a couple of thousand.

 

I have no problem with the DSC and tipping extra for above and beyond. I believe they work hard every day and deserve the money they make. But I think it is unfair to try and guilt people into paying more and more, no questions asked, by referring to the crew as poor hard working folks from third world countries. There are plenty of folks in my own first world country getting by on a lot less. Rochelle

 

 

A quick calculation based on the figures chengkp75 provided for base and incentive pay seems to be around $3,000 per month, which at first seems fairly substantial, but you have to take into consideration that in order to earn that amount, the NCL worker had to put in 16 hour days, 7 days a week, or 480 monthly hours vs the 160 hours the US worker put in. If the US guy worked 480 hours, he would earn $5,500 and probably much more because of the overtime involved. Doubtful the NCL crew get any overtime pay for anthing above 8 hours daily or 40 hours weekly. And no days off. And, if they choose to take several weeks off at the end of their contract, and who wouldn't want to after 6 or more months, they are, I assume, off with no wage, which further dilutes their pay.

 

As far as room and board, I don't know that they do not purchase their own food. Maybe not. And the room is a standard size cabin shared by 2-4 guys, not exactly their own apartment. I don't know if the Phillipenes has an income tax but I'd be very surprised if they didn't.

 

None of this will cause me to "guilt tip" beyond the DSC or any auto gratuity, but I don't think they are getting rich off our money. It's probably very good money compared to what they make at home, and it is probably worth whatever they have to put up with.

Edited April 1, 2015 by punkincc

[triptolemus]

If you are angry with NCL because you believe they are making a profit off of DSC, then don't sail NCL.

 

If you are concerned with the crew not getting enough money, tip the people over and above the DSC for doing a good job.

 

What should I do if I am none of those things?

[triptolemus]

the NCL worker had to put in 16 hour days, 7 days a week, or 480 monthly hours

 

Citation needed.

[chengkp75]

A quick calculation based on the figures chengkp75 provided for base and incentive pay seems to be around $3,000 per month, which at first seems fairly substantial, but you have to take into consideration that in order to earn that amount, the NCL worker had to put in 16 hour days, 7 days a week, or 480 monthly hours vs the 160 hours the US worker put in. If the US guy worked 480 hours, he would earn $5,500 and probably much more because of the overtime involved. Doubtful the NCL crew get any overtime pay for anthing above 8 hours daily or 40 hours weekly. And no days off. And, if they choose to take several weeks off at the end of their contract, and who wouldn't want to after 6 or more months, they are, I assume, off with no wage, which further dilutes their pay.

 

As far as room and board, I don't know that they do not purchase their own food. Maybe not. And the room is a standard size cabin shared by 2-4 guys, not exactly their own apartment. I don't know if the Phillipenes has an income tax but I'd be very surprised if they didn't.

 

None of this will cause me to "guilt tip" beyond the DSC or any auto gratuity, but I don't think they are getting rich off our money. It's probably very good money compared to what they make at home, and it is probably worth whatever they have to put up with.

 

Okay, again, according to international law, a cruise ship employee, or any mariner must have 70 hours of rest in any week, and 10 hours per day, so the most they can work is 14 hours/day.

 

Now, one thing I did not point out is that the $585/month figure is the minimum wage that can be paid for a 40 hour week. How this is made up is determined by the company and the employee through their employment contract. This is much like many states in the US where an employer is allowed to pay wait staff a wage below the minimum wage, and if the person receives enough tips to make up the minimum wage, the employer is not required to pay any more, but if tips are slow, they must make up the difference to the minimum. Therefore, there is no guarantee that the compensation from the DSC is in addition to the base minimum, just that the combination of the DSC and base wage equals the minimum. There must be additional compensation for hours more than 40/week, but this can and may well be at the same rate as the base.

 

And before someone points out that single crew don't have a family at home paying mortgage, etc., let me ask what this person is supposed to do with their belongings while gone for 8 months? Whether rented or owned, single or married, these people have expenses at home.

 

It's not fair to compare crew salaries with salaries in North America. What is pertinent would be as I stated, the percentage or where each of the salaries would fit compared to the median income for the respective country.

 

To give a couple of examples of crew compensation (from a few years ago):

 

In the international crew, my entry level engine ratings had an overtime rate (everything over 8 hours/day) of $1.75, and the highest paid were skilled journeymen pipefitters at $10/hour overtime. I did not know their base wage, as all I was tasked with was approving the overtime budget, the base wage was a fixed cost. These engineering jobs were coveted positions as they paid substantially more than hotel positions.

 

In the US crew, the union for the unlicensed ratings had to cut wages so much from normal maritime wages to meet NCL's budget, that US workers were working for $.35/hour LESS for overtime hours than for regular hours. Go figure.

 

People here say they should get cost of living raises, or annual or semi-annual salary review and increases, but seem to feel that maritime wages aren't allowed to rise as well. I've documented some mandated increases in crew costs, there are other costs that are increasing greatly (fuel cost this year is greatly increased, even considering the price drop, since the now mandated diesel fuel is still more expensive than the old fuel was at the beginning of the price drop for crude). If NCL wants to cover those increased operating costs with a larger portion of the base fare, and transfer more crew cost, and the rise in crew cost to increased DSC and gratuities, that is, to me, an acceptable business model. As I've said, if the 2015 filings show a marked increase in profit (reported for 2014 as 11% on another thread), and a fixed crew cost, then you will see my ire, but I can't justify getting so worked up over it now.

 

How many of you shop around, and play the price reduction game? What if NCL decides to remove the fees and go with the RCI model, which when fully implemented would have a "brochure" price for the cruise and nothing less?

[fstuff1]

A quick calculation based on the figures chengkp75 provided for base and incentive pay seems to be around $3,000 per month, which at first seems fairly substantial, but you have to take into consideration that in order to earn that amount, the NCL worker had to put in 16 hour days, 7 days a week, or 480 monthly hours vs the 160 hours the US worker put in. If the US guy worked 480 hours, he would earn $5,500 and probably much more because of the overtime involved. Doubtful the NCL crew get any overtime pay for anthing above 8 hours daily or 40 hours weekly. And no days off. And, if they choose to take several weeks off at the end of their contract, and who wouldn't want to after 6 or more months, they are, I assume, off with no wage, which further dilutes their pay.

 

As far as room and board, I don't know that they do not purchase their own food. Maybe not. And the room is a standard size cabin shared by 2-4 guys, not exactly their own apartment. I don't know if the Phillipenes has an income tax but I'd be very surprised if they didn't.

 

None of this will cause me to "guilt tip" beyond the DSC or any auto gratuity, but I don't think they are getting rich off our money. It's probably very good money compared to what they make at home, and it is probably worth whatever they have to put up with.

 

according to Breakaway's Hotel Director (Prem) during a Q&A session, he said hotel staff works up to 11hrs/day, depending on position.

they can do 2 more hrs/day at overtime pay. so 13hrs/day max.

 

they also get breaks inbetween.

and food buffet is provided, located in the crew area.

Edited April 1, 2015 by fstuff1

[sjbdtz]

Everyone on this thread agrees that $12.95 charge per day does NOT all go the staff, which was the OP's question. I am sure the crew appreciate their tips being taken in exchange for cake. They can deposit a cake at any bank. :rolleyes:

 

Nope. Not everyone agreed that.

 

 

 

Okay, I try my best to avoid tipping threads, and probably won't be back to debate this, since I'm headed back to sea, so I'll just put my view out there for others to shred.

 

 

I know I will not convince anyone on this board, but I had to vent a little before going to work.

 

I love you. In a platonic CC-member-who-you-admire kind of way.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[jackson bernard]

I could not care less how much they get paid. That's between them and their employer. My tips will go directly to the people who serve me, not to some slush fund. If the behind the scenes folks get stuffed, they should bring it up with their employer.

[rochelle_s]

People don't understand a mariner's life. Yes, for 6 months a year, I receive free room and board on the ship. However, my family back home still have to pay the mortgage and for food. They are not getting anything free. The cruise ship employee is usually required to send their entire base wage home (by the crewing contractor that coordinated their employment, or by their home country law). Most also send most of the overtime or incentive pay home as well.

 

The Canadian who pays taxes on his earnings receives benefits from those taxes like socialized health care, which the crew do not receive back home.

 

Most Canadians do not have to pay crewing contractors for the privilege of working (sort of like union dues), nor do they have to pay for the flight of several thousand miles to get to work. While repatriation at contract's end is covered by the cruise line, the cost to get to work (like a commuting cost) is paid by the crewmember.

 

I did a little more digging into the MLC 2006, since most of the aspects of this convention do not apply to US crews (since our standards as required by US labor law and USCG regulations are far higher), and found that the convention only went into full effect on 20 Aug 2013. So, the cruise lines have been dealing with these mandates for only about 18 months. I've also found that it mandates paid annual leave of 2.5 days/month worked, which is a completely new concept to the cruise lines. In the past, once a crewmember's contract was over, that was the end of his pay until the next contract. So this will drive up crew costs, which may explain the increase in gratuities for lines like NCL and RCI.

 

Crew make a middle class income for their home country. They are not destitute, but they give up a lot to earn that middle class income. I would like to see a survey of first world people, and what their salary requirements would be to take a job with the hardships of crew life, and how percentage wise this would compare with the median income of the country, and then compare that to the same figure for the crew's countries.

 

I just find it unreasonable for everyone to feel that every increase goes directly to profit of the company. It will be interesting to see the 2015 financial reports to see if return on investment, or profit per passenger increases apace with the increases in fees.

 

 

I thought I was clear earlier. I do not begrudge the crew the DSC. I have never removed or even adjusted the amount in the past. I have always tipped extra to my steward, wait and bar staff. I don't begrudge the increase to the DSC.

 

I do not agree with the forced auto gratuity on specialty restaurants, coffee shop, pizza delivery etc. It was only after there were questions of double dipping were we then told that these wait staff are not a part of the DSC and I find that very hard to believe as they have other duties as well on the ship. I don't agree with the possibility of paying up to $7.95 for the delivery for room service. If it went 100% to the person who delivered then I wonder why he is deserving of twice the amount for dropping off my food as the person who serves me for 2/1/2 hours in Le Bistro? If the money is going into the pockets of the corporation then they are taking away from the employee who delivered it, as most people in the past would have been giving him a couple of dollars cash tip and now many will refrain from doing so.

 

We will pay our DSC and every time we turn around on the ship we will be paying more in the form or auto-grats and service charge/convenience fee. That implies that everywhere we turn we should be expecting the highest level of service. NCL has set that bar and I and others will be less inclined to just accept whatever service we are given. Prior to these changes that blanket acceptance is exactly what I would do, because I do feel the staff is hard working and deserves what we give them, but I always had a choice in the matter. When the company forces me to pay more and more and makes my tipping non discretionary it does change the way I feel about it. Where previously I would have just not tipped extra for inferior service I will now have to address any issues with management and if need be adjust the DSC. That is the option they have afforded me and I refuse to be bullied or pressured from ever using that option with the myth that my waiter/steward is some poor indentured servant from a third world country. Most of the time on a ship I find the service to be excellent and hopefully I will never have to make any adjustment to the DSC because of a bad situation.

 

We do have health care in Canada but at the same time a minimum wage employee in this country is most often living below the poverty line.

Someone in Florida who works a job that receives tips, is paid a minimum wage of $4.91 per hour and likely will never be considered middle class doing their job. But as you said crew members earn the equivalent of a middle class income for their home country. A middle class income in Canada is $70,000 per year. I think you might find a fair few people who would be more than willing to work on a ship for that type of money. In fact there are Canadians who work on cruise ships who make less than that they, just work in different departments.

 

I understand that the crew give up a lot when they choose to work on a cruise ship. My father was not a navy man but he was in the military (army) so I do have some idea of the life of a crew member and their family. I've no doubt that life on a cruise ship can be difficult but there are benefits too. I am glad to hear that things will be better for them in terms of the MLC. At the same time enough from those who want to place some sort of guilt trip on me as if I am personally responsible for the welfare of each and every crew member. They chose to work on a ship and receive decent compensation for doing so. As I said before I have never made any change with the DSC in the past but if I receive really inferior service in the future I will not hesitate anymore to alter if necessary.

 

 

 

Rochelle