Carnival to Stop Offering Cruises to Nowhere - Starting in 2016

[spleenstomper]

I sailed NCL Pride of Hawaii with an American crew and it was a fabulous cruise. Great service.

[bruadhin]

Everyone needs to check out the Passagers Vessel Services Act 1886

& also Merchant Marine Act of 1920 ( Jones Act.) This will help to answer everyones question

 

Actually not, the Jones Act does not apply, and the PSVA definitely allows CTNs. It is a visa issue. CBP feels, and probably rightly so, the D-1 visas currently held by the crew does not allow them to engage in CTNs.

[PamJack]

I'm disappointed. I really wanted to do one of those at some point.

[travler27]

Exactly, it appears Carnivals has decided to interpret the law differently now in order to support there recent company decisions, I suspect NCL and the others have no idea about this.

 

Doesn't it seem odd this new policy interpretation of old law comes out at a time that their obviously attempting an image adjustment. All the recent news about rowdy crowds and brawls that have caused the alcohol policy enforcement where no water carry on is allowed anymore.

 

The CTN's have been called the "BOOZE CRUISE" for years now:confused:

 

Are you implying that Carnival somehow influenced the courts decision so they could cease CTN's and improve their corporate image?

[falkcor]

First off, getting rid of the Jones Act would not affect the passenger industry at all. You are thinking of the PVSA.

 

There are two issues here to think about when declaring the PVSA should be repealed. If it was, then every dinner cruise, casino boat, ferry, and charter fishing boat currently operating in the US would be eligible to reflag to a foreign flag, and then not be subject to US labor laws, US taxes, or have the USCG apply their more stringent safety standards than the IMO requires of foreign flag ships. US jobs would be lost, tax revenue would be lost, the port economies would suffer since the crews would be foreign and not living and spending in the country, and maritime accidents would increase.

 

The second issue is that CBP is looking at this issue more from the viewpoint of crew visas and CBP's ability to vet and track these crew, than from a PVSA standpoint. My reading of the ruling is that the cruise lines are not prohibited from having CTN's, just that they cannot do so with foreign crew having D-1 visas. NCL went to Congress to get the ability to carry foreign crew on a US flag ship, why can't the other lines do a similar thing for their foreign flag ships. They would not have to pay US wages like NCL does, but they would have to invest a substantial amount of money in getting the entire crew H-1 work visas. Since CTN's are such a small amount of the revenue days for any cruise ship, it just isn't worth it. So the major issue is visas, not US flag.

 

insightful analysis, thank you for sharing!

[SadieN]

There are still some 2 day cruises available.

On the West Coast they stop in Ensenada.

[christyran1228]

What's interesting is that the cruise I have bolded is still available as the only Cruise to Nowhere in 2016.

 

And we are booked on it ... so I am still deluding myself that it will go on as planned. :(

[Kcruiser2014]

And we are booked on it ... so I am still deluding myself that it will go on as planned. :(

 

 

I'm deluding myself too!!! I just booked, then saw the threads about the CTN being cancelled!

[MaxGlycine]

I sailed NCL Pride of Hawaii with an American crew and it was a fabulous cruise. Great service.

 

That's great to hear, stomper. My cruise on NCL was on their foreign-flagged SKY, with a foreign crew, and I was not impressed. Carnival did much better, IMO. So it's possible to get great service, regardless of the nationality of the crew. :)

[MaxGlycine]

There are two issues here to think about when declaring the PVSA should be repealed. If it was, then every dinner cruise, casino boat, ferry, and charter fishing boat currently operating in the US would be eligible to reflag to a foreign flag, and then not be subject to US labor laws, US taxes, or have the USCG apply their more stringent safety standards than the IMO requires of foreign flag ships. US jobs would be lost, tax revenue would be lost, the port economies would suffer since the crews would be foreign and not living and spending in the country, and maritime accidents would increase.

 

Thanks, chengkp75, I've been waiting for someone to look at it this way, considering the many smaller vessels also impacted. Not everything is about the big cruise lines!

[oakleys]

Oh dear

[isaiahsnana]

And we are booked on it ... so I am still deluding myself that it will go on as planned. :(

 

Me, too. My daughter has booked us on this so she can try out a ship with the Cloud 9 Spa. I have sailed on the Magic twice with a spa pass, so she wants to try it. With three little boys at home, she cannot get away easily for a longer cruise during the school year, which is the only time that is affordable! We would love to take the whole family in the summer on the Breeze but that cost is prohibitive right now for us.

[AmazedByCruising]

The second issue is that CBP is looking at this issue more from the viewpoint of crew visas and CBP's ability to vet and track these crew, than from a PVSA standpoint.

 

This document about the PVSA http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf explicitly exempts CTNs A “cruise to nowhere” is not considered coastwise transportation. A “cruise to nowhere” is the transportation of passengers from a U.S. point to the high seas or foreign waters and back to the same point from which the passengers embarked, assuming the passengers do not go ashore, even temporarily, at another U.S. point. See 29 O.A.G. 318 (1912).

[isaiahsnana]

I'm deluding myself too!!! I just booked, then saw the threads about the CTN being cancelled!

 

Maybe they will add a day and just really speed to get us somewhere else and reduce on of the cruises on either end by one day! HOPE!

[Goonhilly]

I wonder what the rule will be on unintended cruises to nowhere. We have taken a 3 day cruise out of Port Canaveral on the Enchantment of the Seas which was booked to call at Nassau and Coco Cay. Due to high winds, neither destination was possible so it turned into a 3 day cruise to nowhere.

 

Will this still be acceptable to the authorities? This would make more sense than extending the cruise until Nassau reopened.

[Rudyard]

Maybe they will add a day and just really speed to get us somewhere else and reduce on of the cruises on either end by one day! HOPE!

 

Interesting idea. Looking at the distance to Progresso (closer than Cozumel) it would probably have to be a four day though. Even if we leave Galveston on time, and Breeze cruised at max speed, it's roughly a 25 hour trip. Maybe they'll switch the 12/11/16 sailing to a five day and make ours a four day to Coz. Of course that will leave them with a lot of angry people looking forward to the first seven day cruise out of Galveston.

[chengkp75]

This document about the PVSA http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf explicitly exempts CTNs A “cruise to nowhere” is not considered coastwise transportation. A “cruise to nowhere” is the transportation of passengers from a U.S. point to the high seas or foreign waters and back to the same point from which the passengers embarked, assuming the passengers do not go ashore, even temporarily, at another U.S. point. See 29 O.A.G. 318 (1912).

 

That is why I said that the issue is more about crew visas than the PVSA. I believe in the past that both CBP and the cruise lines both felt that since this exemption was included in the PVSA, then CTN's were allowed with foreign crew. Now, the definition of a CTN is domestic commerce, and as such, the ships do not clear CBP either inbound or outbound, and manifests are not required (Bimini Superfast's position), so that foreign crew could work in the US for months without any supervision by CBP.

[christyran1228]

Me, too. My daughter has booked us on this so she can try out a ship with the Cloud 9 Spa. I have sailed on the Magic twice with a spa pass, so she wants to try it. With three little boys at home, she cannot get away easily for a longer cruise during the school year, which is the only time that is affordable! We would love to take the whole family in the summer on the Breeze but that cost is prohibitive right now for us.

 

Granted, it is pretty far out there ... but i booked it with the intention of waiting until the last minute to surprise DH with a quick little getaway ... that only requires 1 missed work day.

 

That kind of cruise doesn't happen out of Galveston -Thur, Fri, Mon for a one stop in Cozumel is the best you can do. Which I have booked already, and which we already did from NOLA.

 

We really need to move to South Florida. lol

[Rudyard]

Just got my cancellation notice this morning for my Breeze cruise. Looks like they won't be trying to add on days after all. I'm actually ok with that as it would have affected someone else's cruise. At last this way only one cruise is affected. Guess I'll start looking into booking that four day on Liberty for the same time frame.

[Kcruiser2014]

Yep, got mine too. Time to make plans... Darn!

[sparks1093]

Just got my cancellation notice this morning for my Breeze cruise. Looks like they won't be trying to add on days after all. I'm actually ok with that as it would have affected someone else's cruise. At last this way only one cruise is affected. Guess I'll start looking into booking that four day on Liberty for the same time frame.

 

Yep, got mine too. Time to make plans... Darn!

 

Still waiting for my notice from NCL:rolleyes:.

[Babyrocko1908]

Has anyone received their deposit back on their credit card yet for their Vista cancellation?

[andrewjs18]

well, that sucks. I was planning to go on a CTN next year with a few of my buddies. :mad: