Why the San Diego port on WC 2017

[CaveDiving]

I have a question about one of the ports of call on the 2017 World Cruise. I understand the cruise departs from Ft. Lauderdale on Jan. 4, 2017, transits the Panama Canal and then stops in San Diego before heading for Hawaii.

 

At first I thought this was a great idea as folks from the west coast could embark in San Diego and avoid the initial trip back to Ft. Lauderdale. But now I am being told that the first segment ends in Honolulu. So to embark in San Diego requires cruisers to purchase fare from Ft. Lauderdale. That’s two weeks of extra fare, not an insignificant amount that could easily amount to over, say, $10,000 for a couple.

 

Now I try to understand the HAL logic in stopping in San Diego if passengers are not to be embarked or disembarked there. Even though it is a lovely place to visit, I find it hard to believe that any significant percentage of the World Cruise passengers would look forward to spending one of their World Cruise excursion days in San Diego. I believe that most World Cruise passengers rather are looking forward to foreign ports of call. In addition, I would think that a segment from Ft. Lauderdale to San Diego would be a reasonable cruise for HAL to sell, so the company would not lose any significant revenue by making San Diego a segment end.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Scott & Karen

[KirkNC]

Good question. You are correct about the first segment. One guess is that if they made the FL to SD a segment, lots of west coasties may miss that first two weeks. Also I think they generally try to make segments longer than 14 days (I know they don't always achieve that).

 

We are booked on the WC 2017 and having never been to SD are actually looking forward going to their zoo. :D

[arzz]

Hi Scott!

 

You make a good point in articulate fashion. Would love to hear HAL's reasoning here. We are considering the FLL to Hong Kong segment for 2017 - though quite frankly would prefer to go FLL to Shanghai as we love Shanghai and would spend a couple of extra nights there before going home.

 

For us, we would be using this cruise to avoid January and February in the Chicago area so beginning in FLL and going through the canal seems warm and lovely. But I would think that many west coasters might prefer to embark in San Diego. As a port San Diego does not excite.

 

The only reason I could think of to stop in San Diego might be to provision? I know they wouldn't need to do that but it may be a way from them to save $$ on provisions before heading out to the islands. I suspect it is expensive to provision in Hawaii and a long time between FLL and Osaka.

[SilvertoGold]

I agree with the provisioning idea.

 

We've been to all the ports on the first segment of this particular WC many times over and never bunkered nor took on any significant amount of food/supplies at any one.

 

This is such a novel start for a WC! Love it!

[SilvertoGold]

Hi Scott!

 

You make a good point in articulate fashion. Would love to hear HAL's reasoning here. We are considering the FLL to Hong Kong segment for 2017 - though quite frankly would prefer to go FLL to Shanghai as we love Shanghai and would spend a couple of extra nights there before going home.

 

For us, we would be using this cruise to avoid January and February in the Chicago area so beginning in FLL and going through the canal seems warm and lovely. But I would think that many west coasters might prefer to embark in San Diego. As a port San Diego does not excite.

 

The only reason I could think of to stop in San Diego might be to provision? I know they wouldn't need to do that but it may be a way from them to save $$ on provisions before heading out to the islands. I suspect it is expensive to provision in Hawaii and a long time between FLL and Osaka.

 

You can always disembark in Shanghai! I would pick Shanghai over HK for a few extra days!!

[arzz]

SilvertoGold

 

I know we could disembark in Shanghai - but we would have to pay for the full segment to Hong Kong. I guess we are being a bit frugal here. Long time until 2017 so lots to consider. I was actually impressed by the number of segments HAL published so early in the game ... As I remember in the past they have only published a half way segment this far out.

[take us away]

I agree with the provisioning idea.

 

We've been to all the ports on the first segment of this particular WC many times over and never bunkered nor took on any significant amount of food/supplies at any one.

 

This is such a novel start for a WC! Love it!

 

Interesting idea about provisioning but past WC's and the now defunked Grand Asia would sail from the US to Asia or Australia without added provisions. While on a ship's tour, had the opportunity to see that the Amsterdam has amazingly huge stores which is one of the reasons she does the long cruises. Granted the Asia went out of Seattle but it was something like 10 days to Japan and know we did not get much of anything loaded on while in Japan. Too bad about not having FLL - SD as a segment but wonder if they are working or will work out a special deal for embarking passengers.

[SilvertoGold]

Interesting idea about provisioning but past WC's and the now defunked Grand Asia would sail from the US to Asia or Australia without added provisions. While on a ship's tour, had the opportunity to see that the Amsterdam has amazingly huge stores which is one of the reasons she does the long cruises. Granted the Asia went out of Seattle but it was something like 10 days to Japan and know we did not get much of anything loaded on while in Japan. Too bad about not having FLL - SD as a segment but wonder if they are working or will work out a special deal for embarking passengers.

 

I think it possible that the FtL to Honolulu segment would require bunkering for fuel before Honolulu. As noted, the ports in between aren't the ones HAL uses for this in my own experience.

[SilvertoGold]

SilvertoGold

 

I know we could disembark in Shanghai - but we would have to pay for the full segment to Hong Kong. I guess we are being a bit frugal here. Long time until 2017 so lots to consider. I was actually impressed by the number of segments HAL published so early in the game ... As I remember in the past they have only published a half way segment this far out.

 

I hope you are right!! Long way out -- lots of time for HAL to add up the complaints on this segment and maybe add on some options for those who would want to start in SD.

[InTheWASide]

the provisions idea seems the most likely. Additionally depending on how it sells they could always turn the FLL-SAN into its own Panama Canal cruise if they REALLY wanted to

[Fred321]

We've been on 2013 and 2015 world cruise, entire routes, but have never been to San Diego and am looking forward to stopping there on the 2017. Go figure.

[chengkp75]

I think it possible that the FtL to Honolulu segment would require bunkering for fuel before Honolulu. As noted, the ports in between aren't the ones HAL uses for this in my own experience.

 

The ship might not need to bunker before Honolulu, but it would before leaving Hawaii.

 

If the ship did not bunker on the West Coast, it would have to do so in Hawaii. Bunkers in Hawaii are about 35-50% higher than West Coast prices, since it has to be transported there. Very few ships, passenger or cargo take bunkers in Hawaii, the NCL POA being a notable exception, which helps to drive the price up.

 

Provisions are much higher in Hawaii as well, even if they ship in their own corporate supply, they have to pay to ship the containers.

Edited July 15, 2015 by chengkp75

[Johnny B]

We asked our cruise agent if, being Left Coasters, we could board in SD and count it as a full WC. When she checked with Seattle, they said it was not possible because of the Jones Act, which is nonsense, because there are plenty of foreign ports between FLL and SD. Since we began the 2014 WC in San Francisco, making it 130 days, we know that the Jones Act has no impact on this situation. Oh well.

[DeeniEncinitas]

We asked our cruise agent if, being Left Coasters, we could board in SD and count it as a full WC. When she checked with Seattle, they said it was not possible because of the Jones Act, which is nonsense, because there are plenty of foreign ports between FLL and SD. Since we began the 2014 WC in San Francisco, making it 130 days, we know that the Jones Act has no impact on this situation. Oh well.

 

We called today also! They gave us the same garbage! Well that changed our WC with HAL in 2017!

We are going to do WC with Regents 2017 out of Miami Jan-May. Return back to Miami and fly back to San Diego our home. I am a little bummed because I told them I'd pay from FLL to San Diego, but no dice!.

Denise:)

[wander]

Personally, if I were to plan to sail the WC I would definitely want to board in FLL. Having sailed on several 1/2 or 3/4 World Cruises, for me getting on part way into the cruise has definite social disadvantages. Friendships and bonds form from day 1, and you are sort of like an add on. Oh, everyone (well almost everyone) is pleasant, but unless folks already know you, you are sort of like an interloper. Just my experience, others who have joined a WC part way through the cruise may feel differently.

 

For folks with lots of friends already on board or WC regulars may have a very different experience.

[CaveDiving]

We asked our cruise agent if, being Left Coasters, we could board in SD and count it as a full WC. When she checked with Seattle, they said it was not possible because of the Jones Act, which is nonsense, because there are plenty of foreign ports between FLL and SD. Since we began the 2014 WC in San Francisco, making it 130 days, we know that the Jones Act has no impact on this situation. Oh well.

 

You are absolutely correct in that believing <<FLL to SD is a violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act>>, is nonsense. But in fact, there are usually not many but rather only one distant foreign port included in this itinerary, which makes the voyage legal. Generally Cartagena, Columbia or Aruba is the one port that is important. All of the others don’t really count as they are not considered “distant” foreign ports.

 

But I don’t understand what HAL’s answer has to do with your question about counting a boarding in SD as a full WC.

 

Scott & Karen

[CaveDiving]

We called today also! They gave us the same garbage! Well that changed our WC with HAL in 2017!

We are going to do WC with Regents 2017 out of Miami Jan-May. Return back to Miami and fly back to San Diego our home. I am a little bummed because I told them I'd pay from FLL to San Diego, but no dice!.

Denise:)

 

I’d like to understand more fully exactly what it was that HAL told you. It seems to be in direct contradiction to what I was told.

 

I was told that of course I could board in SD but I would need to pay for the cruise from FLL. Are you saying that HAL said you could not do this?

 

Scott & Karen

[Johnny B]

Since we were able to board in SF in 2014 as part of a "full" WC, we thought perhaps we could board in SD under the same agreement. We do realize that it's 2 weeks shorter than the FLL departure, but since there are a lot of West Coast passengers, we thought they might allow it. I don't mind them refusing the idea, but I don't like having them make up a reason that's not true.

[DeeniEncinitas]

Scott,

We live in San Diego. In fact our home is less than 20 mins. Along the coast by our coaster(commuter train). We wanted to get on board in San Diego as our embarkation and do the world cruise. We even said we would pay the difference of the 14 days included in the WC. Pay full price so we could begin our cruise in San Diego. Our PCC with HAL even tried for us and got the same answer!! No starting the cruise in San Diego! Not even if we paid full cruise fare.

Denise:)

PS I am noticing less cruises out of my home port too!!

We are 4 STAR and have always cruised and love HAL, but we will be on the Regents WC instead.

[The-Inside-Cabin]

I'll take a crack at this. Let me put my Holland America Headquarters hat on.

 

The world cruise is a Grand Voyage and the most prestigious cruise of the schedule. If you sell a FLL to SAN segment, then you have essentially made this another run of the mill Panama Canal Cruise for the first 15 days. The ship would probably sell many cabins on the Panama Canal segment leaving less to sell for the rest of the world cruise.

 

Trying to sell SAN to FLL would be hard, because how many people want to go on a world cruise that isn't really a world cruise (SAN to FLL) - Some but not as many.

 

Is HAL miscalculating? Let's check out the competition...

 

Princess is doing exactly want you are asking in 2016...I guess Holland will be watching....

 

Princess is selling a world cruise with 2 starting points. FLL or LAX and they ARE selling the FLL to LAX as a World Cruise Segment and as a straight up Panama Canal Cruise. Princess will let you world cruise from FLL-FLL or LAX to LAX or LAX to FLL.

 

My guess is that HAL don't want to have the "great unwashed" panama canal cruisers get on the world cruise...

 

Check back after final pay for the WC next year...I bet they will be more accommodating.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Pete and Judy

[igraf]

You could always visit Tijuana for the foreign port experience. The San Diego trolley will take you right down to the border.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

 

...I find it hard to believe that any significant percentage of the World Cruise passengers would look forward to spending one of their World Cruise excursion days in San Diego. I believe that most World Cruise passengers rather are looking forward to foreign ports of call. ...

 

Scott & Karen

[CaveDiving]

I am still perplexed at the schedule for the 2017 World Cruise.

 

Why would HAL have a ship go 1,000 miles northwest from Puerto Vallarta to San Diego (and spend several days in the process), only to return back south to Honolulu immediately afterwards.

 

I certainly can’t see San Diego as a particularly attractive excursion port for the World Cruise. As an interesting city for a land vacation, definitely, but as an excursion port for a World Cruise, surprising.

 

Scott & Karen

[chengkp75]

I am still perplexed at the schedule for the 2017 World Cruise.

 

Why would HAL have a ship go 1,000 miles northwest from Puerto Vallarta to San Diego (and spend several days in the process), only to return back south to Honolulu immediately afterwards.

 

I certainly can’t see San Diego as a particularly attractive excursion port for the World Cruise. As an interesting city for a land vacation, definitely, but as an excursion port for a World Cruise, surprising.

 

Scott & Karen

 

Actually, the great circle route (shortest distance between two points on a sphere) between the Canal and Hawaii takes you right past Puerto Vallarta and Ensenada, so San Diego is right on the way. Its difficult to visualize on a flat chart, but similarly the shortest distance between NYC and England takes you almost to Greenland, and from Japan to Seattle takes you to the Aleutians. The great circle route on a Mercator chart (most common projection) looks like an arc that is anything but the shortest distance.

Edited July 16, 2015 by chengkp75

[The-Inside-Cabin]

Actually, the great circle route (shortest distance between two points on a sphere) between the Canal and Hawaii takes you right past Puerto Vallarta and Ensenada, so San Diego is right on the way. Its difficult to visualize on a flat chart, but similarly the shortest distance between NYC and England takes you almost to Greenland, and from Japan to Seattle takes you to the Aleutians. The great circle route on a Mercator chart (most common projection) looks like an arc that is anything but the shortest distance.

 

As discussed by Cheng earlier, Here is a table that shows the distances to HNL from the various cities along the route. As you can see, each port gets your closer and closer.

 

Panama to HNL 4688

Costa Rica to HNL 4283

Corino to HNL 4070

Puerto Queztal to HNL 3845

Puerto Vallarta to HNL 3384

San to HNL 2275

 

San Diego is a high quality port. Not like LA or many other ports, the cruise terminal is right downtown and you can walk to many attractions without needing a shuttle bus. Plus the weather is perfect year round. There is a trolley stop near the cruise terminal and you can be in Tijuana in 45 minutes if you want to hit Mexico.

 

If you went direct from Panama to HNL you could probably get to HNL faster, but then you would be looking at 11-13 sea days in a row

[SilvertoGold]

 

If you went direct from Panama to HNL you could probably get to HNL faster, but then you would be looking at 11-13 sea days in a row

 

Now, THAT is a GOOD point! Likewise, from Puerto Vallarta to Hilo would be 7 days, I guess.

 

I agree that SD is a high quality port, although the "perfect weather" turned on us the very first visit there: it rained, no poured, for half the day and we sloshed our way back to the ships looking like drowned rats!

Edited July 16, 2015 by SilvertoGold