"Gala nights"

[POA1]

(Bold is mine)

 

This is my point. HAL says they have formal nights, but what they say isn't what happens. They give a description of what passengers are expected/asked to wear. From my docs:

 

On festive Formal evenings,

ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a

jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal

nights per week.

In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line

asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire

evening.

 

If you had never sailed HAL before and read that, your expectations of what you "should do" and could expect to see would NOT match the actual experience. It varies widely from ship to ship and maître d' to maître d'. I have seen jacketless men turned away from the MDR on formal nights. I have seen jacketless men offered loaner jackets on formal nights. I have seen men in golf shirts (no jacket) be seated on formal nights. I don't mean to pick on the men, but these are easy examples to describe and compare to HAL's wording. There's even more variation in women's clothing.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. We've seen things all over the spectrum. However, I would not want to be turned away from the dining room because I was underdressed. My wife would beat me about the face, head, and neck with her purse. (Not one of the clutches like she carries on formal nights - a big, honking beach tote, with novels, bottles of water, and one of the heavy issues of InStyle that comes out in the Spring or Fall.) In all seriousness, I would never tell someone to ignore the written dress code. If they got turned away on my advice, I'd feel terrible. What's the poor guy supposed to say? "Why, yes. Yes I can read. But the anonymous people on CruiseCritic said that this was a perfectly acceptable outfit!"

 

My advice: You will not be turned away if you follow the simple, written instructions.

 

My follow up advice ('cause I'm full of it) - Dress for your spouse, your companion, and your table mates.* Find a cause for celebration. Pop the cork on some Champagne. You've dressed up. Have a party. Don't look down at your plate and scream, "Well, Mister Pâté... I am dressed formally. You sir, should be Goose liver. My night is in ruins!"

 

In short, we all have the capability to make our own fun. Use yours. But understand that there will be dressed up people around you. You need to accept that. There are plenty of casual cruising options. If that's what you like, go in that direction.

 

Cinderella's fairy godmother dressed her for the ball. She (the fairy godmother) didn’t makes the ball into a t-shirt, flip flops, and Crocs event.

 

*Our table's got a pretty strict dress code. We think that the wine makes up for it.

Edited July 18, 2015 by POA1

[qsuzi]

I'm not disagreeing with you. We've seen things all over the spectrum. However, I would not want to be turned away from the dining room because I was underdressed. My wife would beat me about the face, head, and neck with her purse. (Not one of the clutches like she carries on formal nights - a big, honking beach tote, with novels, bottles of water, and one of the heavy issues of InStyle that comes out in the Spring or Fall.) In all seriousness, I would never tell someone to ignore the written dress code. If they got turned away on my advice, I'd feel terrible. What's the poor guy supposed to say? "Why, yes. Yes I can read. But the anonymous people on CruiseCritic said that this was a perfectly acceptable outfit!"

 

My advice: You will not be turned away if you follow the simple, written instructions.

 

My follow up advice ('cause I'm full of it) - Dress for your spouse, your companion, and your table mates.* Find a cause for celebration. Pop the cork on some Champagne. You've dressed up. Have a party. Don't look down at your plate and scream, "Well, Mister Pâté... I am dressed formally. You sir, should be Goose liver. My night is in ruins!"

 

In short, we all have the capability to make our own fun. Use yours. But understand that there will be dressed up people around you. You need to accept that. There are plenty of casual cruising options. If that's what you like, go in that direction.

 

Cinderella's fairy godmother dressed her for the ball. She (the fairy godmother) didn’t makes the ball into a t-shirt, flip flops, and Crocs event.

 

*Our table's got a pretty strict dress code. We think that the wine makes up for it.

 

I love it when my DH puts on that tux and looks smoking hot.

Edited July 18, 2015 by qsuzi

[stacyh270]

They do enforce it on some ships.

 

And, therein lies the confusion. There needs to be universal application of the rules for the entire fleet for the dress code to be taken seriously. HAL needs to make a decision one way or the other and quit sending mixed signals about what is expected. Either do away with formal evenings or do them well, in attire and food.

 

If we cruise with HAL in the future, I'm sure DH will still pack his jacket and tie but we'll probably stroll by the MDR before dining to see what everyone else is wearing and he can make his decision from there :)

[POA1]

I love it when my DH puts on that tux and looks smoking hot.

You know what they say... Men dress for their wives. Women dress for other women.*

 

*Yes, I know that this is an outdated social construction, but just try to rewrite it with all today's variables thrown in. "Men dress for their wives, husbands, spouses, domestic life partners, and so on." It just looses the elegance of the language.

[iancal]

I believe that inconsistency has become the hallmark of HAL cruises. In all areas. No different than the other mass market cruise lines. You never know what will be in that cracker jack box. It causes pleasant surprises and expectation gaps.

 

From our perspective this is one of the attributes that separates a mass market line from a premium or luxury cruise offering.

[bcd2010]

"I would never tell someone to ignore the written dress code. If they got turned away on my advice, I'd feel terrible. What's the poor guy supposed to say? "Why, yes. Yes I can read. But the anonymous people on CruiseCritic said that this was a perfectly acceptable outfit!"

 

Find a cause for celebration. Pop the cork on some Champagne. You've dressed up. Have a party."

 

Exactly! Thank you for pointing out these 2 important factors.

[sail7seas]

I'm surprised that anyone who loves fine food and wine would sail on HAL. There are valid reasons to sail on HAL, but good food and wine isn't one of them. You might as well stay home and visit Red Lobster and Olive Garden.

 

I have to truthfully say I've never entered a Red Lobster or Olive Garden. I don't think there's a Red Lobster in my area. :D

 

If I want to dine at Michelin Star Restaurants, that is where we go. I don't expect a cruise ship catering to 2,000 guests, more or less, to provide Michelin level dining. I think HAL does a wonderful job of beautiful table settings, attractive MDR considering the size they need to be, variable menus and enough for most of us to find something to satisfy. Most of the people on most of the ships are unwilling to pay the sort of fares that would be required if they want Michelin level dining. If we all want more, we have to expect to pay more. The vast majority are relatively satisfied with the value they are getting for the money they are paying.

 

[POA1]

I believe that inconsistency has become the hallmark of HAL cruises. In all areas. No different than the other mass market cruise lines. You never know what will be in that cracker jack box. It causes pleasant surprises and expectation gaps.

 

From our perspective this is one of the attributes that separates a mass market line from a premium or luxury cruise offering.

The CLIA lists the Mass Market lines as Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and Norwegian. They also list Disney with an asterisk. (Because of the focus on families, not price.) You often post about mass market lines. Could you please help us out and post the "iancal list of cruise lines" by market segment? It would help us to think that there's an informed opinion, and not just a put down.

 

I have to truthfully say I've never entered a Red Lobster or Olive Garden. I don't think there's a Red Lobster in my area. :D

 

If I want to dine at Michelin Star Restaurants, that is where we go. I don't expect a cruise ship catering to 2,000 guests, more or less, to provide Michelin level dining. I think HAL does a wonderful job of beautiful table settings, attractive MDR considering the size they need to be, variable menus and enough for most of us to find something to satisfy. Most of the people on most of the ships are unwilling to pay the sort of fares that would be required if they want Michelin level dining. If we all want more, we have to expect to pay more. The vast majority are relatively satisfied with the value they are getting for the money they are paying.

 

 

Sail, I couldn't have said it better. (I've tried to come up with a smart-ass comment, but I really cannot.)

[jtl513]

I don't think there's a Red Lobster in my area. :D

 

Correct!

 

We're sorry, there are currently no Red Lobster restaurants located in your area. We look forward to serving you in the future as we continue to grow and expand across the country.

[POA1]

Correct!

 

We're sorry, there are currently no Red Lobster restaurants located in your area. We look forward to serving you in the future as we continue to grow and expand across the country.[/b]

 

I didn’t realize that you were a Darden group representative. That's so helpful! Do you have a moment to talk about the bloomin' onion? It's for publication.

[qsuzi]

The World Ocean & Cruise Liner Society (WOCLS) rating of High-Deluxe 5 Star was awarded to HAL Large Ships. Which ships are considered large? Also are dress codes and/or food quality part of CLIA and WOCLS ratings?

 

Source: World Ocean & Cruise Liner Society

2014 rating High-Deluxe, 5-Star+ Large Ships: Holland America Line.

 

"Holland America continues to provide an exceptional cruise value to its

passengers. While many of our members have noticed changes over the years as HAL evolved, these changes have always been offset by improvements in other areas of the cruise experience. At the same price point HAL still offers a far more elegant product and far more personalized service than other cruise lines in this category and remarkably, they are able to deliver this product consistently across all the ships in their fleet. Their old world ambiance, friendly and excellent service, fine food and the extra touches that passengers do not expect. This combines to make Holland America Line the most repeated cruise line of our members and the Best Cruise Value in this category."

Edited July 18, 2015 by qsuzi

[3rdGenCunarder]

I'm not disagreeing with you. We've seen things all over the spectrum. However, I would not want to be turned away from the dining room because I was underdressed. My wife would beat me about the face, head, and neck with her purse. (Not one of the clutches like she carries on formal nights - a big, honking beach tote, with novels, bottles of water, and one of the heavy issues of InStyle that comes out in the Spring or Fall.) In all seriousness, I would never tell someone to ignore the written dress code. If they got turned away on my advice, I'd feel terrible. What's the poor guy supposed to say? "Why, yes. Yes I can read. But the anonymous people on CruiseCritic said that this was a perfectly acceptable outfit!"

 

My advice: You will not be turned away if you follow the simple, written instructions.

 

My follow up advice ('cause I'm full of it) - Dress for your spouse, your companion, and your table mates.* Find a cause for celebration. Pop the cork on some Champagne. You've dressed up. Have a party. Don't look down at your plate and scream, "Well, Mister Pâté... I am dressed formally. You sir, should be Goose liver. My night is in ruins!"

 

In short, we all have the capability to make our own fun. Use yours. But understand that there will be dressed up people around you. You need to accept that. There are plenty of casual cruising options. If that's what you like, go in that direction.

Cinderella's fairy godmother dressed her for the ball. She (the fairy godmother) didn’t makes the ball into a t-shirt, flip flops, and Crocs event.

 

*Our table's got a pretty strict dress code. We think that the wine makes up for it.

 

 

Bold is mine. You seem to have misunderstood me. (Perhaps you missed my earlier post) I am not advocating ignoring HAL's "dress code." I am not trying to dress below the dress code or find a more casual cruise. I like the more formal experience which is why I go in the direction of Cunard when I can. But their itineraries don't always suit me. And, overall, I like the HAL product.

 

My complaint with HAL is the inconsistency. Yes, I would prefer truly formal nights. But that isn't going to happen. So they need to look at what most of their passengers seem to want and make that their "dress code."

 

I know that people say they dress for themselves and don't care what others wear. (And that argument comes from both people who do dress up and those who won't.) But there is an ambiance when everyone is dressed up that adds a lot to the evening for us. We wouldn't go to Red Lobster in tux and gown. We wouldn't go to dinner on casual nights in tux and gown. And if HAL abolishes formal nights, we won't pack tux/suit or gown/cocktail dress. We'll go with whatever they say.

 

I just want them to SAY what they MEAN. Or perhaps what I really want is for them to MEAN what they SAY.

[POA1]

Bold is mine. You seem to have misunderstood me. (Perhaps you missed my earlier post) I am not advocating ignoring HAL's "dress code." I am not trying to dress below the dress code or find a more casual cruise. I like the more formal experience which is why I go in the direction of Cunard when I can. But their itineraries don't always suit me. And, overall, I like the HAL product.

 

My complaint with HAL is the inconsistency. Yes, I would prefer truly formal nights. But that isn't going to happen. So they need to look at what most of their passengers seem to want and make that their "dress code."

 

I know that people say they dress for themselves and don't care what others wear. (And that argument comes from both people who do dress up and those who won't.) But there is an ambiance when everyone is dressed up that adds a lot to the evening for us. We wouldn't go to Red Lobster in tux and gown. We wouldn't go to dinner on casual nights in tux and gown. And if HAL abolishes formal nights, we won't pack tux/suit or gown/cocktail dress. We'll go with whatever they say.

 

I just want them to SAY what they MEAN. Or perhaps what I really want is for them to MEAN what they SAY.

 

It wouldn't be the first time I've missed something. Sorry.

 

I understand your point. I would love to see rigid enforcement of the dress codes - and speed limits, and "10 items or less" at the grocery store. There's only so much a person can do. :)

[Danni3ll3]

There is no consistency on Gala/Formal night even on the same ship. I read on here that in May on the Nieuw Amsterdam, men were turned away because they didn't have a jacket or tie, but two months later, I saw a couple enter the dining room in jeans and t-shirts. Maybe they lost their luggage and that is why they were allowed in as they were. However, many of the other men did not have jackets on and it was a non issue.

[iancal]

My issue with HAL's inconsistency in the MDR has nothing to do with the dining place settings. They are very nice.

 

But the food quality, the food prep, and the service levels are inconsistent. They can range from top notch to something much less. Same with many other attributes.

[rjrpar]

True of most large cruise lines

[iancal]

Absolutely.

 

We find the same on Princess, Celebrity, Carnival, and very much so on two RCI cruises that we did within few months of each other. Notice it most in MDR food and service. Cabin service and staff for the most part was very similar and consistent across all lines.

Edited July 19, 2015 by iancal